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Here it says that the model that will be announced on June 1, Computex is not GTX 460 but it's GTX 465, and it's the model that Nvidia wants to create the "8800GT Effect" on.
The specs of the card are:
* 256bit memory bus
* 1GB DDR5 RAM
* 384 CUDA Cores
* 607MHz Core Clock
* 3206MHz Memory Clock
* 211W TDP
* $259-$299 MSRP.
---
Looks like it will have performance between 5830 and 5850.
What's The "8800GT Effect"?
Close to a high-end performance for a mainstream price.
lol
Anyways the only way this is gonna happen is with a die shrunk and faster raw speed not to mention good enough shader count.
Being able to take one GPU and re-use it on a million products. Or: rebranding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimr
lol performance between 5850-5830, ... it's not high performance for a low price ...
They're not going to do it. Nobody need crystal ball to say that.
all ATI has to do is drop prices 15%-20% across the line and nVidia will be done for...im wandering why theres been no "real" price drops in the 5xxx line ever since introduced:confused:
...are the 5xxx selling really that good...:(
Prices are way to high for '8800GT effect'.
211W TDP. Auch. HD5850 only has 151W...
I bought an 8800GT when it released, $310 and if you compare its performance to be somewhere now, it would be about where this post is saying. Not backing Nvidia here as they have been quite annoying lately, but it seems people are being negative, just to be negative, which is just about as annoying. Not entirely directed at you, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Now i do agree this wont have an "8800gt effect" but not for the negative reasons most spout out. The reason this is nearly impossible is because ATI has a competing line of cards, and a competing line of
cards than can easily also compete in price, when the 8800GT released, ATI had nothing to combat it with, if they tried to lower prices more than they did then, (which still wasnt enough to compete with the given performance for price compared to 8800GT) they wouldnt be here today.
Next "G92" :DQuote:
Originally Posted by massman
GTX 465 -> GTX 565 -> GTX 665(6?) :D:rofl:
seems like nvidia is trying to fill atis gaps but this card looks like another 5830 to me lol
They obviously have a different idea of what "8800GT effect" means. Not sure how a dual-slot, 211w junkyard part for $300 compares to the slightly-slower-than-flagship single slot 8800GT.
How $259-$299 is bad price ?
HD5850 cost over $300 at newegg, and HD5830 cost around $250
So, the price is in the right position
GTX 465 has same clock/sader/memory speed as GTX470. So, the difference between GTX 465 and 470 is much smaller than difference between GTX 470 and 480
exactly... the 460 or 465 or whatever they end up calling it has as much in common with an 8800gt or G92 as a tomatoe and a toe nail... :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
a card delivering the same performance at the same cost that weve had for almost a year at a higher tdp... how THAT is supposed to wow customers... i have no idea...
unless they allow unlocking the gpus into 470s or 480s, and the success rate is actually at least 50%, i dont see this taking off... sure, its a great 5850 replacement for people who dont want an ati card or DO want an nvidia card... but thats not going to make it a popular product...
and whether they call it 460 or 465... who cares?
either way itll be a recycled gf100...
I think it will be much closer to HD5850 than HD5830Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
GTX 470 already beats HD5850 overall. And GTX 465 doesn't look much slower than 470 on paper. It only has slightly smaller bus size, and slight less stream processors.
I would say it will be about ~ %15-%20 slower than 470
Nvidia's desperation gets more and more sad with every day.
You'd think they'd have the dignity to just lay low and get to making something worthwhile. :shrug:
wtf are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
So Nvidia shouldn't make a cropped version of the GF100 chip?
since when making mainstream cards "desperation"?
Exactly. Both the 8800 GT and the HD 3870 were kings because of low TDP. Yeah both were hot with reference cooling, but Accelero S1 made beast of them. Accelero was able to handle 8800 GTS 512 MB, but since than the cards have much smaller VRM's. You won't be able to cool it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR
I see no chance of this card being another 8800 GT. Maybe in terms of low amount of cards in shops. Yeah it could help in pushing prices down, but as long as AMD has huge space where the prices can go, NVIDIA won't sell much of these cards even if they were as powerfull as HD 5850.
No it's not a bad price relative to ATi's parts. But it's no 8800GT.Quote:
Originally Posted by dartaz
Of course GTX 470 beats HD5850, it's like half more expensive lol. It HAS to be faster. Besides, it's not even in the same range.Quote:
Originally Posted by dartaz
HD5830 -> GTX 460/465 ?
HD5850 -> GTX 460/465 ?
HD5870 -> GTX 470
HD5970 -> GTX 480
8800 GT's effect with a 210 W TDP card and a 259-299$ MSRP ???
They're quite dreaming on this one. Hope 5850's price go down though ...
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR
The 5850 is only a few dollars cheaper than the 470 here in the states. What are you talking about?
Here you can find a good 5850 for 249 euros, but you cant find a GTX470 under 330 euros :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
But what about the HD 5830?Quote:
Originally Posted by RejZoR
Not in Czech Republic, there's almost a 30% difference in price.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
The 5 in GTX 465 indicates a double-GPU to me. Maybe nVidia is trying to cut the power/heat by cutting the number of cores to make a 460x2 ?
How is availability in Europe? Cause either ATi isn't as popular there or there isn't any stock of 470's.
@ Sam_Oslo
Yeah, like the 5 in 285, right?
No that's older, but like 295, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeXaR
Besides, I don't see how nVidia can squeeze a single-GPU between 460 and 470. There is no space there, right?
i think your hoping more than your making a guess :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dartaz
480 = 480sps@700mhz and 384bit@924mhz
470 = 448sps@600mhz and 320bit@837mhz
7% less@16% lower clocks and 20% less@10% lower clocks
first the clocks, then the functional units
so 93% of 84% = 78%
so a 470 has around 78% of a 480s raw gpu performance
80% of 90% = 72%
so a 470 has around 78% of a 480s raw memory performance
if you even that out weighing in both equally, you end up with 75%
so overall a 470 has 75% a 480s raw processing performance
now lets do the same for a 460 and lets assume 600mhz clocks which is reasonable. and lets assume the same memory clocks as well, which is also reasonable.
480 = 480sps@700mhz and 384bit@924mhz
460 = 384sps@600mhz and 256bit@837mhz
25% less@16% lower clocks and 50% less@10% lower clocks
so 75% of 84% = 63%
so a 460 has around 63% of a 480s raw gpu performance
50% of 90% = 45%
so a 460 has around 45% of a 480s raw memory performance
if you even that out weighing in both equally, you end up with 54%
so overall a 460 has 54% a 480s raw processing performance
and you will notice that the gpu will be notably more powerful than the memory bandwidth the gpu gets... which seems oddly unbalanced... its likely therefor that the gpu will come clocked below 600mhz by default. or the memory would come clocked higher...
either way, the 460 will be at least as much slower as a 470 as that one is slower compared to a 480.
sounds like nvidia got a pretty clean performance bin there...
480 =~100%
470=~75%
460=~50%
but where does that put a 460 in relation to other cards?
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...TX_470/30.html
HD5770/gtx260... OUCH! :S
hmmmm so nvidia MUST clock the 460 higher than 600mhz... otherwise itll be a pathetic little piece of silicon with no right to exist... i mean at 600mhz it would only be as fast as a GTX260... which can be found for almost half the rumored MSRP of a 460/465... ouch...
a 460 being close to a 5850 is IMPOSSIBLE if you ask me, seeing as a 470 is only 3% faster than a 5850 on average, so they are about the same...
they could clock the 460 really high, maybe... but why would they clock it to 90% of a 470s performance?
to majorly pss off all their 470 and 480 customers? lol :D
i dont need to go between 460 and 470 it can eaily be 470 replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
so theres supposed to be a 460 and 465? both in june?
that doesnt make any sense guys... i think somebody misunderstood things here... some call the new part 460 and some 465...
or the 460 is coming out in june and nvidia hopes for a 8800gt success with the 265 which will be based on gf104 and will come out in a couple of months...
launching a 460 and 465 at the same time makes absolutely no sense... :p:
Sam, either way you look at it, there are more nvidia single-gpu XX5 cards than dual-gpu (285 + 275 vs 295). Besides, I don't expect a dual card before a refresh or die-shrink of some sort, except maybe one of those limited edition behemots, a la Ares, Mars, etc. But I'm no expert nor do I have any kind of insider info, so I can be totally wrong.
Like in the case of 9600GT vs 8800GT? Theory is one thing, but it doesn't always work like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
GTX 470 3% faster on average? Isn't it more like 10-15%? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I don't know either, just guessing like you. But 2 single-GPU that apparently are very close to each other at the same time, doesn't sounds like a logical move (for nVidia's sales numbers), unless something really fishy is going on. Something like maybe nVidia is replacing both 480 and 470 with these?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeXaR
Or 460 is rev a3 and 465 is rev B1. It's nvidia after all, no logic is necessarily involved :D
its been already more than half a year since the radeon 5xxx release,so it wont be a science fiction theory that ATI reduces prices across board to like :
5830 <= 150euro ;
5850 <= 200euro;
5870 <= 250euro;
i still dont understand why ATI is not doing this right now,it would basically kill nVidia just like Intel used to do to AMD whenever similiar situation arised.
All you have to do is look at the expected TDP to see that this can't be a dual-GPU card. NVIDIA can't get a single Fermi chip under 200W that isn't massively castrated, let alone two of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Have you ever thought of shorter signature? Because your post is not as long as your signature...Quote:
Originally Posted by AAbenson
As for the pricing, why would AMD do this now? They'll do that when new GTX's hit the stores...
256bit x 800mhz memory. That puts it exactly halfway between 5770 and 5830 for memory bandwidth.
Is the 5830 really so memory rich that they can go that low on the memory and still hope to beat it?
It's more than likely GF100 rejects, not a cropped version. Either way if they can sell them, it's better than scrapping them I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
It's Nvidia. What else is there to know?Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
Ah, that's for clearing that up. So what are your views on the 5850 and 5830 then?Quote:
Originally Posted by freeloader
Well if nvidia wanted the 8800 effect with a newer card, it should look at the bang for the buck like the ATI 4830.....Just my:2cents:, instead of high hopes with a high price.
I'll go a little saaya on this one
5850 is 150w but 5830 is 170w (possibly higher). So this card is going to be faster than a 5830 and will pull 40w more on load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami3n
Availability in Europe is pretty much terrible. Dunno if you count Turkey as in Europe :D but availability here pretty much reflects Europe. Fermi prices are insane here as well. This week there is a deal on Gigabyte Fermi cards ($330 for 470 and $480 for 480) but apart from that, the prices are terrible. I think they'll go down this month or the next, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
Nope, the card that is 10-15% faster than the 5850 is the 5870. The 470 is somewhere inbetween, leaning more towards to the 5850 side. However, 470 has better overclocking response than the ATI cards and I believe if you overclock all three cards on air to their limits, 470 will be on par with 5870.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vardant
470s can really overclock like crazy, one guy (with exceptional case cooling, 12 fans :eek:) went up to 900mhz on air at 75% fan speed, and says its stable :eek: that's a 50% overclock!
the 8800GT effect was due to consoles just being released and no game needed much more power than it offered, you can still enjoy any new game that came out recently on those cards. the 465 effect will not happen, and they can just ignore the idea completely.
with sony still talking about a 10 year life on the ps3, and some rumors of a new xbox console in the next 2 years, we might see the same effect with a nvidia 600 card, or ati 8000 card
I always check cb.de before posting numbers, just to be safe and 5870 is more like 20% faster, but that's not the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
Saying GTX 470 is only 3% faster is not even close.
So is TDP. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Did any common sense alarms go off in your head when you typed that out?Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Fox
^ This, I thought exactly the same :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
he is right though. 5830 is a broken 5850 that needs more power just to run.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
it would be reasonable for a new nvidia card to be faster than 5830 and use more power.
ps: 8800gt sold incredibly well and was recommended by every website. that is obviously what they mean by 8800gt effect.
Nope, it eats more power because reference cards were built on a 5870 PCB.Not because of the chip.Quote:
he is right though. 5830 is a broken 5850 that needs more power just to run.
And there will (or are now) cards with custom pcbs and lower consumption.
Proof? And how does that explain the 5850? Either way, both ATI and Nvidia salvage chips that won't run at full spec for the lower cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
That isn't bad, it's good business.
what good is it if the price is that high.
VR-Zone
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/018c236...650c85aca8.jpg
352 CC ??? It seems really weird ...
Quote:
we heard the current batch of GTX 465 cores are essentially GTX 470 with just some CUDA cores turned off so there could be some possibilities of unlocking it if that remains the case. With an estimated price target of $249, it could prove to be quite attractive for some.
Yeah it looks weird but it falls in line with the 32 core clusters or whatever they call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
Right Highoctane but that will be a big gap between GTX 470 and GTX 465 :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
i agree, they should call that the 460, cause they have room for a 475 and 465 later to be right between, or much closer to the next model up, as those go EOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
or they expect some super oced 465s to help fill in space
Why bother looking at actual reviews and seeing actual numbers when you have your terrific "common sense alarms" in your head, right :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
The 5850 is a great card for it's price. The 5830 would be a great card if it was at the $200 price point. Either way, they're broken 5870's. If you can make a $ selling them, then by all means, do it. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
there is no 5830 reference PCBQuote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
they're not broken, they're "special"Quote:
Originally Posted by freeloader
right, like the 285 and 275 :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
-5 only means updated and higher performance than -0 in nvidia branding
right, but launching a single and dual gpu card with barely any difference in the branding number makes sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
so the dualgpu card will be only slightly faster compared to a single gpu card? and the dualgpu card will be slower than a 470? and what about the 211W tdp? that CANT be a dualgpu card... and if its a single gpu card that is slower than the dualgpu card, then how high will the dualgpu cards tdp be? 300W+ but itll be slower than a 470?
there isnt going to be 2 cards, im pretty sure about it...
some call it a 460 and some a 465, who knows what nvidia will actually call it when they launch it... either way, we are talking about ONE new card here... thats it...
what do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vardant
note how a theoretical breakdown of the 470s and 480s performance matches 99%... at least in tpus benchmark row a 470 is exactly 75% of a 480 at 1920x1200... how relevant their choice of benchmarks is doesnt matter... in tpus review a 460 should perform about as fast as a 260... and thats ouch... big ouch... :S
read my post and check the link...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vardant
if you dont trust tpu, fair enough... i do...
it probably has a lot to do with what settings and benchmarks you use in a review... some games favor ati, some favor nvidia... and some cards run certain aa levels better than others etc etc...
anyhow, even if you think the choice of benchmarks and settings on tpu is done poorly and doesnt reflect actual nvidia vs ati performance, that dosnt really impact the relative performance from one nvidia card to another by a lot. so a 460/465 still ends up as fast as a 260...
why should they? nvidia cant fulfill demand right now, it doesnt matter how many cards they actually sell... nvidia cards are in low supply and its a textbook example of a market situation in which you keep your prices up and throw excessive parties with hot chics and lots of free booze :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AAbenson
if those numbers from vrzone are true then OOOUUUUCHHHH
even less blocks and lower clocks... it might end up slower than a 260... it supports dx11, yay, but how useful is that when even a 480 is brought to its knees playing metro2033? even at this terrible performance, these cards might actually be fun to play with... but for 250$ i wont touch them... no way...
199$ or lower with those 352sp specs and we are talking... im pretty sure those cards will be good for 100% overclocks on ln2 with mods :D
its been a while that weve seen that from a card... and while it might suck perf wise... it should be fun to play with... kinda like those netburst 65nm chips or celerons :D
When is this vid card coming out?
On average the 5850 is $60 dollars cheaper than the 470, I'd call that more than a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
Not sure where you're looking for avg prices but the cheapest 5850 stock at NE is $310 and the 470 is $350.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
Here the cheapest 5850 is au$345 and the cheapest 470 is au$485 !!
There was 280 before the 285, and there was a 260 before 275, but 295 is the only one without a presider to upgrade from.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
If those leaked spec holds true, a single-GPU with 352 CC is too little to do anything good at high-end or middle-range for nVidia, but 2 x 352 CC could change the game. If it is a double-GPU tho, we have to wait and see what this actually is.
Yeah, one card makes more scenes. I think the 460 is just another name for the same card, too.
I am going to hold off for the GTFO 453.6
You laugh now, but you know it is coming :)
Nothing like when retard markeeters get thrown into the mix, nomatter what industry selling what we all end up feeling alittle insulted.
Your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
I'm not willing to pay that much more for ONLY a 3% performance increase. I'll take the the 5850, overclock it, and keep the $40. That's not including what you'd save on your electricity bill to power and cool the 470.
:rolleyes:
Its irrelevant to me what hardware you spend your money on nor what you may or may not save on your electric bill I was merely pointing out that your self proclaimed avg price difference was incorrect. :rolleyes::rolleyes: :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/M...ozr_II/27.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...rectCu/26.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-23.html
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-23.html
It's logically impossible for a 5830 to overtake a 5850 per GPU consumption, with the large qualifier being how the VRM is designed.
average does not mean minimum, saphire had a 5850 for 290$ and another for 310$, the only thing the 310$ one came with was a free game.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
Yeah it is around 320 vs 350 with the gtx coming out ahead well especially especially once overclocked by a large margin then.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
At that price point I can't see myself picking the green team. I'd either jump onto the ATI ship or spend a bit more, the 465 doesn't look anything like a new 8800 to me.
If I wanted to quote minimum mwave had the 470 for $330 when I replied earlier but I was simply quoting what was stock at NE at the time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Maybe I'm looking at the 460 in the wrong light, but i don't see it'll be a great buy compared to the competition with all things considered, especially if ATI cuts prices to counter it :shrug:
Bah, this gen of cards hasn't been very exciting IMO. Nvidia's broken Fermi cards and ATI's more of the same 5000 series.
Bring on ATI 6000 vs. GTX500! :)
There's a big drop in cores but core/shader clocks are unchanged, unlike with 480 to 470.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
GTX 480 has 24% more FLOPS than GTX 470, while GTX 470 has 27% more FLOPS than GTX 465.
Incorrect in your mind maybe, newegg and pricewatch both show an average of $60 more for the 470 for the brands I would buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
Nice try though...
:rolleyes:
Aside from the fact that you are overlooking the fact that the GTX470 is a very good overclocker, you show Nvidia! Teach those meanies a lesson and buy that 5850! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
Also, for future reference please don't try and suggest that the cost difference in energy of running a 5850 vs. a GTX470 would be anything more than a drop in the ocean for anybody that can afford a 470 or 5850 and the corresponding hardware to utilize them fully.
And the 5850 isn't a good clocker? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
Are you going to pay my power bill for me? Thought not. When one card offers no tangible increase in performance over what I currently have, and uses more power, plus was 7 months late to market, why should I buy it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
If you have a 5850, keep it. If you are buying something new, get the GTX470, if the price difference is low.
At least that's what I would do if I was Jesus.
Here in Portugal, cheapest HD5850 is 240€, cheapest GTX470 is 330€, so a 90€ difference is quite too much to choose the 470.
That's a big if.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2947 <- reviewQuote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
175W declared power consumption
From the article:
"Given the 175W load power, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that AMD and its partners are doing some recycling on board designs. The launch 5830s will be using the 5870’s board due to the similar power usage of the two cards. This is something that AMD says may change in the future if vendors want to do their own boards."
Have i said otherwise ?Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sweeper_
i havnt sean anything 5830 that used a 5870 pcb just the POS vaporX/xfx non refrence 5850 and the asus CU 5850 pcbs.
NV needs a new smaller chip to get what they want thats the only way, the gf100 is crap for gaming or desktop use its only good for benching, cuda and the extreme enthusiast. they need to drop the power down so that means that they need a smaller part not a gimped part. they have to stop the chipzall and chipzooki strategy they need upper midsized parts they cant compete by cutting bad dies down, it limmits the clocks to much as u dont get any less power consumption by having clusters dissabled
oh the 5850 overclocks, but it doesn't scale as well as the gf100 cards. the gtx470 and gtx480 respond really well to a boost in mhz, cypress must be held back by something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
overclock.net member did some home benching
if you don't like the power consumption of the gf100 cards, that's fine don't buy one, but there is no need to constantly remind people who don't care which card is less thirsty. it's like saying "my corvette is better than your viper because it gets better gas milage" :shrug:
i thought that this is on NV wanting another 8800gt. they need to make it so it works in normal computers and not custom ones like we here all have. u cant just stick a gf100 into a store bought computer like u can with a g92 or the 5770/5850 and if u are targeting that $200-300 range u need the lower consumption. that means that they need a new chip, if they do get a new chip thats smaller on that architecture so they demonstrate that scalability that they were saying the fermi was all about and by cutting the die and pad size they should be able to do 1/3 the shaders with half the power as tsmc 40nm needs alot of extra power as u make the die bigger (its not linear.)
Reread that quote you posted. They are using the 5870 board due to similar power usage of the two cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
The 5870 board is a result of the GPU on the 5830 having similar power usage to the 5870, which implies 5830 GPUs are poorer parts that can't make the cut for a 5870 or 5850, and the higher power usage is a result from poorer grade silicon and necessitates the more expensive 5870 PCB rather than that of the 5850.
:up: :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro
i like your humor :D
i think you mean 2/3? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
and a dual 465 card... how?
if the single 465 has a tdp almost identical with that of the 470 but is around 33% slower... that doesnt make any sense... then they could just make a dual 470... same power but 33% more performance...
i'm not sure i'd put ANY of those into a store bought computer, seeing as most store-boughts have a 250-350watt psu on board...Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
also, power consumption increases because of a lot of things... die size being just one. fermi's "power problem" is leakage... but that leakage is also the source of it's overclocking prowess. B1 will change many things...
leakage isnt really the power problem, they have to run way more power through the core based on die/pad size due to bad tracing and power piping on the 40nm node from tsmc parts, u even have to run 2 power trenches with tsmc 40nm per set of transistors, so when u have a product with the performance that a market needs and its the point were your core sales are going to come from u should accommodate them. look at the g92 they have products for the desktop that go less than 65W and some that are over 150W. ati has the 5770 and thats only 90W, most newer computers with a quad core seam to have a 450-500W psu as thats the cheapest that u can make right now and HP, dell and acer are starting to use 1 psu for the entire non gaming desktop line so the capacity is there. the gf100 as of now with the 470 and an i7 both at stock u can get over 600W with total system draw thats just to much for the normal end user to stick into a computer.
im in no way saying that the power consumption makes the 470 or 480 a bad card they are fine for the market that they are for, sure i would like to see less power draw and higher clocks like every1 else, but when u want to take upper mid performance and give it to the masses as the g92 did and thats what seamed to make it popular was that u could shove 1 in almost anything and if u wanted more u could get a higher clocked one or a second one. with the 460 or 465 they are just doing what ati did with the 5830 and unless u want to oc the card and upgrade frequently its a terrible card since its not a smaller die but only has half the shaders/rops it uses the same power as the higher end and is not vary fast, this is the same the only way to cut consumption to make it work in this application is to cut clocks, cutting clocks leads to bad performance per watt and like was said the gf100 likes clocks. so OEMs wont use it as it will cost them more and make the computer louder.
so what they need to make it like the g92, is to cut power and die size so u can use it without a new psu on normal systems (not high end not bargain) and keep the clocks up for performance, it seams like a new die would accomplish that. NV had said that the gf100 was scalable, that means that they can make new parts from it not that they can disable clusters so they still leach power.
What they need to do is have something with 406 or 384 shaders with 750mhz clocks. The low clocks are really hurting the 470.
While they are at it, get the card at the 300 dollar price point. Such a card would be slightly faster than the 5870. However it might need a decent cooler or a revision to make feasible at the 300 dollar price point. I wouldn't say it would have a 8800gt effect but it would atleast be the best bang for your buck videocard currently available.
yeah good point zanzabar...
what happened to fermis amazing scalability?
fermi has taped out how many months ago? 7? 8? and there still isnt a cut down fermi gpu...
and thats supposed to be a very flexible and easily scalable design?
ati had rv870 and rv840 launch within weeks, and a complete lineup from top to bottom within, what, 3 months?
its going to have been almost 1 year by the time gf104 is widely available in retail!!! 1 year! and thats not scaling at all, gf104 will probably replace gf100... nvidia will offer single gf104 for mainstream and dual gf104 for highend...
yeah, thats a very flexible strategy alright nvidia... :D
tbh i wish theyd have done this from the start... id have loved a 384sp gf100 for 250$ and they could have sold dual 384sp cards instead of 480s, which would have been faster, run cooler and cost them a lot less than 480s...
i really hope nvidia will finally get over their arrogance and revise their strategy...
the current market situation sucks, without any real competition and all... :/
So with only 352 CC's can we expect better than 5770?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon
This is VERY disappointing as I was expecting 416 CC's and would have been simply disappointed with 384, but 352!... :confused:
Perhaps they literally mean the GTX465.5 will replace the 8800's (9800, GTS250) and will be the new 8800 effect!
Hmmm would be time for a Hitler video if they wern't banned...
Edit: Lol! Perhaps this is how Nv got >20% Yields
To be entirely fair, supposedly Cypress was finished quite early. Had they launched the 5870 and 5970 as soon as the designs were finished and the chips were ready, the lead time for the cut down parts would have been a bit longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
At this moment, all the rumor about nvidia is as stink as junk food until it actually materialize.
yeah... still...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
1 month after the launch ati had 2 physical chips in the market offering at least 4 products... its been 1 month since fermi was finally launched and there is one chip out with 2 products...
its time that nvidia realizes that its just not a good idea to have one big chip at a time and recycle the last generations chip for the mainstrem and entry level segments... i dont believe that 40nm is a one off... i really dont think we will go back to the yields and 2 year process cycle weve seen so far...
Nvidia's Geforce GTX 460 gets listed - Fudzilla
Hope that's not real prices, 280-300€ :down:
All Fermi products are priced incredibly high in Europe right now.
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18777/1/Quote:
Some of European e-tailers/retailers have jumped the gun and have listed Nvidia's upcoming Geforce GTX 460 card. Unfortunately, the specifications are scarce at the moment and neither one of those shops have the precise clocks, or any other information for that matter.
The only info regarding the specs of the card is that it supports DirectX 11 and that it has 1024MB of memory. The good side is that we now have the price of the card, or at least an average price that you should see in Europe once this card shows up. The listed GTX 460 card hovers around €300, and while some shops are listing it for as low as €284 others go as high as €332,36.
This price puts the upcoming GTX 460 in direct competition with the HD 5850, and all we need now is to see if the performance is on level with this price. The stores that are listing these cards will certainly get an angry call from Nvidia reps and in that case we have a screenshot ready, as those things makes us quite happy.
Some shops are bold enough to say that the card will be available in next 4 to 7 work days while other are more realistic with availability date set at 10 to 20 work days.