Adobe tells Apple buh bye - puts all dev focus on android

http://vr-zone.com/forums/634779/ado...on-iphone.html

what do you guys think? will apple regret telling adobe to GTFO?
Adobe is a pretty big software player, and whether apple likes them or not...
they are pretty much everywhere on the web...
and html5 is not going to replace it, at least not within the next 2 years or so...

Adobe didn't have any real iPhone development anyway. I don't see how this will affect them munch.

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Originally Posted by lowfat

Adobe didn't have any real iPhone development anyway. I don't see how this will affect them munch.

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Why do you think that was the case? you don't think they didn't want flash on the iphone? :rolleyes:

Adobe basically built Apple a lot of the market that they have today with support for programs like Illustrator and Photoshop. Now that Apple has decided to give them the finger, i feel Adobe has the strength to do the same.

I would love to see Adobe products beeing Windows only.. :rofl:

This means Adobe sees a lot of future potential in Android - great for the platform.

Like when Warren Buffet buys a lot of your company stock - it means you have an excellent outlook.

the reason behind this was WHEN finally adobe actually had a program with the cs5 suite to pretty much enable flash on the iphone by means of decoding? flash and then recoding it in an open language that apple supports.. the day it was anounced apple blocked it

so adobe is like wtf buhbyeeeeee

apple shot theirselves in the foot here.

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Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004

the reason behind this was WHEN finally adobe actually had a program with the cs5 suite to pretty much enable flash on the iphone by means of decoding? flash and then recoding it in an open language that apple supports.. the day it was anounced apple blocked it

so adobe is like wtf buhbyeeeeee

apple shot theirselves in the foot here.

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Where are you getting this information from?

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Originally Posted by ScorpionHD

Where are you getting this information from?

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somewhere else.. :p:
I read it this morning

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Closed tools

In mid-April, Adobe released software called Creative Suite 5 that contained translation tools that automatically turn Flash code into programs that run on the iPhone.

Shortly before the release, Apple updated the terms and conditions of the license software developers must sign to create iPhone and iPad applications. The revisions prompted a lot of criticism from many iPhone developers.

The revised terms placed strict restrictions on what developers can use to create these applications and effectively banned them from using code translators such as Creative Suite 5.

At the time Adobe wrote that it still intended to deliver the translation tools. Now it has said it will halt development of future translation tools for Creative Suite.

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thats from bbc article but theres a few on it..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8639240.stm


but yeah the "revised shortly before release" was literally hours before.. pretty lame of apple to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Russian

Why do you think that was the case? you don't think they didn't want flash on the iphone? :rolleyes:

Adobe basically built Apple a lot of the market that they have today with support for programs like Illustrator and Photoshop. Now that Apple has decided to give them the finger, i feel Adobe has the strength to do the same.

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No Apple doesn't want flash on the iPhone.

This isn't going to be a big deal really. The iPhone has survived two years w/o this flash-to-app tool and has hundreds of thousands of apps already available.

Anyone telling adobe to GTFO is a hero in my eyes. Adobe's software is substandard trash, which is unacceptable considering they are the standard. The fact that Flash is buggy poor performing garbage in terms of software really left Apple with no choice.


Every day I pray a new standard comes out that will eventually take out flash once and for all. It was great back in the macromedia, but ever since adobe took over its become nothing more than a conspiracy to crash browsers and jack up electric bills with excessive cpu usage. For one Steve Jobs is dead on right and no one with a brain can argue.

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Originally Posted by lowfat

No Apple doesn't want flash on the iPhone.

This isn't going to be a big deal really. The iPhone has survived two years w/o this flash-to-app tool and has hundreds of thousands of apps already available.

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It's not a big deal because Android can't run flash yet either. Once there is an alternative with flash support available, Apple will either change their tune or lose market share.

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Originally Posted by surfinhicdude

It's not a big deal because Android can't run flash yet either. Once there is an alternative with flash support available, Apple will either change their tune or lose market share.

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ummm, no. Lest we forget the average iphone buyer. They might lose some share to people who would end up with half working HTC winmobile, but the people one iphones/androids and such made up their mind long before they considered if it had support for that godawful media and ad player.

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Originally Posted by lowfat

Adobe didn't have any real iPhone development anyway. I don't see how this will affect them munch.

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In the sense they will never get flash.... considering most of the web atm is using it... that will hurt sales when the 4g cant deliver an internet experience, and all android phones can. Ipad even more damaging.

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Originally Posted by villa1n

In the sense they will never get flash.... considering most of the web atm is using it... that will hurt sales when the 4g cant deliver an internet experience, and all android phones can. Ipad even more damaging.

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Apple doesn't want flash though. It is too inefficient. The only thing this flash-to-app tool that was to be included w/ CS5 would do is make it easier for developers.

Im sorry but considering how many website use flash and how many flash based media players/ online games we have I cant see how this wont hurt apple? Am I missing something obvious here? Inefficient or not, the fact remains that flash is EVERYWHERE except the iphone/ipad.

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Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin

Im sorry but considering how many website use flash and how many flash based media players/ online games we have I cant see how this wont hurt apple? Am I missing something obvious here? Inefficient or not, the fact remains that flash is EVERYWHERE except the iphone/ipad.

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Apple has survived two years w/o it. Flash on websites will never make it in the iPhone/iPad OS. Apple has stated this for years, thus the push for HTML5. The only thing Adobe is doing to Apple is not going to provide the flash-to-app software to convert flash code to iPhone code. Not for websites but for applications. So no, this really isn't going to affect Apple all that much.

if u are apple why would u want flash, flash would make alot of ads visible, what they would gain is unsigned apps and games and video services. they would not want any of that as most sites will build an app for video services and they dont want unsigned games or apps.

and they may like html5 but apple dosnt support it fully for the iphone/pad and im guessing that they wont since they dont want anything but video playback on mobile devices

apple also banned the cs5 flash to apple converter so they really did not want it on their platform. lets just hope that adobe hits back and focuses on windows and linux

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Originally Posted by lowfat

Apple has survived two years w/o it. Flash on websites will never make it in the iPhone/iPad OS. Apple has stated this for years, thus the push for HTML5. The only thing Adobe is doing to Apple is not going to provide the flash-to-app software to convert flash code to iPhone code. Not for websites but for applications. So no, this really isn't going to affect Apple all that much.

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Will apple be getting the ability to display flash from websites?

I love this!
:banana::banana::banana::banana: you Steve Jobs, you completely deserved this.

I love it how people cannot comprehend the fact that Adobe flash is the bigger detriment to the entire computer industry. Apple not supporting it on their iphone is a good thing, might make Adobe consider actually pulling some effort into before sending it out the door, or better yet snowballs into flash being replaced by a better standard.

I don't like flash, but right now I can't see HTML5 being anything more than a poor mans flash. (did that last bit sound dirty? :D )

Apple doesnt want Flash as its very CPU intensive - think about how that would tax the processor and absolutely kill your battery life.

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Originally Posted by Dainas

I love it how people cannot comprehend the fact that Adobe flash is the bigger detriment to the entire computer industry. Apple not supporting it on their iphone is a good thing, might make Adobe consider actually pulling some effort into before sending it out the door, or better yet snowballs into flash being replaced by a better standard.

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Perhaps, but Apple isn't doing this for the betterment of the industry, they're doing it so Steve Jobs can get the best table at Hooters when all the CEOs get together

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Originally Posted by Darth_Penguin

Will apple be getting the ability to display flash from websites?

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It has nothing to do w/ the ability. Safari can easily do it. It is just that Apple doesn't want flash due to its inefficiency.

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Originally Posted by lowfat

It has nothing to do w/ the ability. Safari can easily do it. It is just that Apple doesn't want flash due to its inefficiency.

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That's not what I've been hearing, from what I understand, it has more to do with ipod apps (basically Apple gets more control and profits more off the apps)

All the needs to happen is Farmville on Android and its pretty much game over for Apple. :rofl:

We are almost there. :)

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitl...android_signup

Hope this isn't old news. :(

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Originally Posted by RacingTurtle

Apple doesnt want Flash as its very CPU intensive - think about how that would tax the processor and absolutely kill your battery life.

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Actually, not so much.

Apple doesn't want Flash because it suddenly creates competition for the Apple Store. Flash = Free Games. This is sacrilegious to Apple and they will stop at nothing to try and force all gaming and application experience to go through the Apple Store where they proceed to reap billions of dollars off of everyone else' products and intellectual property.

I'm not the biggest Adobe Advocate, but I sure as hell don't like Apples' approach to Business. Apple is anti competition.

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Originally Posted by Ket

I don't like flash, but right now I can't see HTML5 being anything more than a poor mans flash. (did that last bit sound dirty? :D )

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Given the fact that you can watch youtube without flash and with html5, just seems to be a sign that perhaps the industry is starting to move away from flash.
http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2...supported.html
and once the industry finally embraces Ogg Theora

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Originally Posted by nn_step

Given the fact that you can watch youtube without flash and with html5, just seems to be a sign that perhaps the industry is starting to move away from flash.
http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2...supported.html

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Video streaming is not the only thing flash can do. perhaps a flash is the only way to create a good looking interactive pages.

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Originally Posted by lowfat

No Apple doesn't want flash on the iPhone.

This isn't going to be a big deal really. The iPhone has survived two years w/o this flash-to-app tool and has hundreds of thousands of apps already available.

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without android. being the key thing.. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by kl0012

Video streaming is not the only thing flash can do. perhaps a flash is the only way to create a good looking interactive pages.

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lets see what else cool can one do with HTML5.. how about this
http://bocoup.com/core/code/firefox-...io-f1lt3r.html


or perhaps you mean something more like these
http://html5demos.com/

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Originally Posted by nn_step

lets see what else cool can one do with HTML5.. how about this
http://bocoup.com/core/code/firefox-...io-f1lt3r.html


or perhaps you mean something more like these
http://html5demos.com/

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I mean sites like dreamworks, HBO, Nike e.t.c.

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Originally Posted by kl0012

I mean sites like dreamworks, HBO, Nike e.t.c.

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there is absolutely nothing in HTML5 that would prevent such sites from utilizing it.

however there may be something lacking in HTML5 that might be; a standard codec for the <video> tag. [I believe OGG is the only reasonable solution]

[QUOTE=nn_step;4356357]lets see what else cool can one do with HTML5.. how about this
http://bocoup.com/core/code/firefox-...io-f1lt3r.html

do you know the title of that song? i likes it

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Originally Posted by NKrader

without android. being the key thing.. :shrug:

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+1, and no alternative competition to run it either. Now android will be able to, and with the new slate of phones coming ie (dual a9's) they will breeze through it, and I m sure adobe putting their resources into it, can make it run lighter on a mobile platform.

I think the bigger picture here is tablets... People EXPECT a full experience on those, 3-4in screen, not so much, will be nice, but android based tablets, are going to destroy the ipad even more so, not to mention televisions etc with android embedded. This is more for future, than for present. And i dont believe it has anything to do with power usage, Apple wants to control their little biodome of a ecosystem, and flash would provide unmoderated content.

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Originally Posted by Russian

Why do you think that was the case? you don't think they didn't want flash on the iphone? :rolleyes:

Adobe basically built Apple a lot of the market that they have today with support for programs like Illustrator and Photoshop. Now that Apple has decided to give them the finger, i feel Adobe has the strength to do the same.

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Main reason I got ride of my iPhone.

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Originally Posted by FlawleZ

Actually, not so much.

Apple doesn't want Flash because it suddenly creates competition for the Apple Store. Flash = Free Games. This is sacrilegious to Apple and they will stop at nothing to try and force all gaming and application experience to go through the Apple Store where they proceed to reap billions of dollars off of everyone else' products and intellectual property.

I'm not the biggest Adobe Advocate, but I sure as hell don't like Apples' approach to Business. Apple is anti competition.

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You realize that there are free apps/games out there, correct? So obviously this isn't the whole story.

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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Originally Posted by lutjens

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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:clap: QFT.

//Andreas

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Originally Posted by lutjens

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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win.
/closethread

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Originally Posted by lutjens

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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+1 and kudos for a nice analysis. :clap:

Do droid phones get prgressively slower like iPhones? My 3g has some serious lag anymore. Not like I download tons of apps either. I have 3 pages of apps on my phone and they have really not changed in the last 6 months. I am in the switching to droid when my contract is up, camp.

As others have hinted, I think it would be awesome for adobe to pull Photoshop/illustrator/etc from mac. What alternative is there for mac users? If their work depends on those programs they will have to switch to PC. Now mac would not even have its fall back (apple is for artists) catch phrase to rely on. Would be very funny to watch.

While i agree html5 is should be adopted for video, i like Flash for animations, games, interactive elements etc. I'd usually just jump on the open platform and shun the proprietary stuff, but i personally like the the Flash ecosystem for those things. Find it a lot faster, more effective to just pop open Flash CS3 and creative with the tools and actionscript. Can't imagine html5 would be a joy to use for that stuff.

Then again, I'm not a web developer so my opinion is worthless :D

I agree with the what others have said, Apple doesn't want Flash because it'll eat into App Store sales, not because it's inefficient. I don't believe Adobe would just do a crappy port of Flash to the iPhone, they'd go all out to make sure it runs perfect on the iFad devices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lutjens

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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Excuse me, but... OH HELL YES.

:up:

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Originally Posted by FlawleZ

Actually, not so much.

Apple doesn't want Flash because it suddenly creates competition for the Apple Store. Flash = Free Games. This is sacrilegious to Apple and they will stop at nothing to try and force all gaming and application experience to go through the Apple Store where they proceed to reap billions of dollars off of everyone else' products and intellectual property.

I'm not the biggest Adobe Advocate, but I sure as hell don't like Apples' approach to Business. Apple is anti competition.

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Exactly, that's what I've been hearing. Since when does Apple care about the consumer? If they did, it wouldn't cost 3x as much to buy an ibook with the same internals as from say HP (not saying HP is good quality, but it doesn't warrant that much of a markup). For instance, I bought an HP entertainment laptop with a core 2 processor, 3 gigs ram, 17" screen, the works - comparable Apple laptop was $2200 at Best Buy.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

lets see what else cool can one do with HTML5.. how about this
http://bocoup.com/core/code/firefox-...io-f1lt3r.html

or perhaps you mean something more like these
http://html5demos.com/

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yeah but i dont see anything there that would be a reason to switch from flash to html5... its merely an alternative...

and im sure its ff and not html5, but this actually doesnt work for me... at all... http://html5demos.com/two-videos
i see no bar to forward or rewind the video, and they dont run synced at all lol...

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Originally Posted by nn_step

however there may be something lacking in HTML5 that might be; a standard codec for the <video> tag. [I believe OGG is the only reasonable solution]

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yes, but you know steve jobs wants to ram the apple codec down everyones throat... its so typical steve jobs, i mean for his whole life he has always been the master of double standards, criticizing others for one thing and then doing the exact same thing, usually taking it even to a higher level than the people he whined about lol...

and yes, i think apple doesnt want flash because it threatens their drm...
free games, free movies, free tv shows... even if drm WOULD work as well as on apples own code, it would get compromised much easier and faster than restricted apple code on locked apple hardware.

i think steven jobs and apple deserve a lot of credit for coming up with those nice platforms... and you cant really blame them for trying to keep them safe and control them, cause well... thats what companies do... if they wouldnt then itunes wouldnt be making 30% of what they are making now, content providers would support apple as much as they do now, wed have much cheaper hardware running a hacked iphone os... and apple would be making much much less money as they are doing now.

still, i think they are overdoing it, they are way too restrictive and abuse their power over the platforms way too much and ripp off their customers too much...

so i really hope android will be able to give us an iphone like interface and functionality for smartphones so we have some proper competition between hardware manufacturers building smartphones, which drives evolution and revolution of the whole industry to move faster...

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Originally Posted by lutjens

The fact that a very large software player is throwing their weight behind Android is significant. To me, this is demonstrative of the growing momentum for Android. The Apple App Store may be larger at this moment, but they've had two years head start. The fact that Google has kept Android open and available to all carriers and allowing them a cut of app revenues will prove to be a huge boost to Android. Widespread and rapid adoption of Android is a very serious threat to Apple. The greater the presence that Android has in the market means the greater the number of developers that'll devote serious time and resources to developing for it. The ease of developing for Android will serve as fuel on the fire, so to speak. The Android Market is going to grow very rapidly as more and more developers become disillusioned with Apple and their insistence on total rigid control of both hardware and software and become drawn to Android. The main things that Google has to ensure at this point in Android, is security, stability, and an enjoyable and flawless user experience (to compete with Apple's UI). Doing this will encourage consumers (especially those with iPhones on expiring contracts) to adopt Android devices. Failing to do this will encourage those folks to return to Apple and will slow Android's growth and penetration into the market. If consumers are given a similarly pleasing experience with Android, they'll begin to adopt it, especially at the more attractive price point that comes with abolishing the "Apple Tax". Devices with Android must be smooth, function well with each other and be very stable.

Many worship Steve Jobs for his success with the iPhone and Apple loyalists treat him almost as a deity. I find it difficult to laud someone who has enjoyed limited competition for some time in the smartphone arena. Apple's hardware is inferior, yet they are able to continually sell it at a premium, because people perceive it of being higher quality due to the smooth integration between Apple's devices and their simple, user friendly UI. With the new Android devices emerging constantly, Steve has good reason to feel a chill of apprehension. The recent lawsuits against HTC are a prime example of this fear. I feel strongly that many of Job's authoritarian decisions and attitudes will come back to haunt him and soon. If Google is able to execute well on the necessities of security, stability and polished UI in Android and devices that run it, I'd not want to be Job's ego over the next decade.;)

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No competition from the smarth phone arena ?

let me tell you something, apple is a small player in the smarth phone arena, you have NOKIA and RIM with really SMART phones....

The iphone is a success because it became trendy to have an apple product, if you have an apple ipod or iphone or imac or whatever you have status, not because their hardware is superior or their software, the usual apple costumer doesnt care about the HW, they only want to state they have an apple product.

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Originally Posted by [XC] leviathan18

No competition from the smarth phone arena ?

let me tell you something, apple is a small player in the smarth phone arena, you have NOKIA and RIM with really SMART phones....

The iphone is a success because it became trendy to have an apple product, if you have an apple ipod or iphone or imac or whatever you have status, not because their hardware is superior or their software, the usual apple costumer doesnt care about the HW, they only want to state they have an apple product.

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i know what you mean, but i think its software IS superior... for us maybe not, but for most people it is...
people always claimed macs were s much easier to use... i totally disagree with that... the learning curve is not that steep, but you just run into a wall most of the time at some point, while on the pc there are tons of settings and different tools and you can spend a lifetime on mastering a windows OS with all its software...

the iphone really IS notably more user friendly though... at least in my opinion... the strengths of the iphone, imo, are its stylish design and its user friendly interface.

user friendly interface doesnt make a smarth phone good, its features and content, what makes a smarth phone good.

i want productivity out of my phone, not fart apps

Quelle surprise... NOT.

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Originally Posted by AliG

That's not what I've been hearing, from what I understand, it has more to do with ipod apps (basically Apple gets more control and profits more off the apps)

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Ever experienced Flash on OS-X or Linux? If you had you'd hate Flash as well ;)

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Originally Posted by saaya

people always claimed macs were s much easier to use... i totally disagree with that... the learning curve is not that steep, but you just run into a wall most of the time at some point, while on the pc there are tons of settings and different tools and you can spend a lifetime on mastering a windows OS with all its software...

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As a switcher I tend to disagree. Most things feel much more natural on OS-X. There are way less (visible) settings (you have to use the Terminal for the rest), but the important stuff is there and not hidden in hundreds of submenus. I have yet to meet your wall. Limitations are clearly visible for corporate users, though.

OS-X (and the iPhone) is for users who want useability without the need for tweaks. It is great to have the possibility to tweak your system until it is the way you want it to, but not everybody wants that. I have a Palm Pre and I tweaked it a bit (Patches yay!) but I don't want that for my Notebook. My Notebook has to run without hassles. I had to reinstall Windows several times and every time I had to change several settings and install several programs before it was useable for me. That is plain annoying :(

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Originally Posted by [XC] leviathan18

user friendly interface doesnt make a smarth phone good, its features and content, what makes a smarth phone good.

i want productivity out of my phone, not fart apps

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i agree, and thats why you and me dont have an iphone :D
but i think most people dont care that much about features... just look at the success of the iphone... it couldnt even copy paste or multitask at all until a firmware update a couple of months ago lol :D

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

Ever experienced Flash on OS-X or Linux? If you had you'd hate Flash as well ;)

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My main machine is a MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, i watch BBC iPlayer HD (Adobe Air/Flash) and YouTube HD all the time with no issues

Apparently, OS X update 10.6.3 added a new Video Decode Acceleration framework which will allow Adobe to put Flash h.264 GPU acceleration into OS X Flash :)

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Originally Posted by Aaronage

Apparently, OS X update 10.6.3 added a new Video Decode Acceleration framework which will allow Adobe to put Flash h.264 GPU acceleration into OS X Flash :)

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You're lucky then. I have a white late 2006 with a GMA950 ;)

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

You're lucky then. I have a white late 2006 with a GMA950 ;)

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Ouch!

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Originally Posted by saaya

i agree, and thats why you and me dont have an iphone :D
but i think most people dont care that much about features... just look at the success of the iphone... it couldnt even copy paste or multitask at all until a firmware update a couple of months ago lol :D

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still cant multitask properly, it stacks the apps, with my N900 when i put the app manager i can see my videos playing my website flash banners doing their thing, etc etc real multi task.

Well, somehow this thread got away from the main issue: Adobe totally sucks. There is no debating that point. Adobe should concentrate on plugging the gaping security holes it opens on your computer first. But what do I know, maybe you guys like running Malwarebytes every 10 minutes. Me, personally, I don't like it. But everybody is different.

Second, I'm hearing a lot of hate about Steve Jobs. Why? Dunno. Some of you guys seem to think he is supposed to act like Mother Theresa and feed the poor or something. Let me tell you, maybe this is the first time you are hearing this, but here is what Mr. Jobs really is: an old fashioned American Capitalist. Did you miss that somehow? He is doing exactly what Alfred P. Sloan (See, google.com) said a corporation should do: create customers. Jobs is the best at creating customers. ipad? Why anybody wants it is a mystery to me, but they love it. iphone is the same thing. And ipod is even worse. So why the hate? Do you hate capitalism? If yes, then do something about it, like join the Communist party. If not, then stop complaining. Or pick up an intro to Econ book sometime and read the chapter about how capitalists love to compete with someone who makes the same product cheaper and better. And then read the chapter about how capitalists like to help the consumer have a nice day. And then take a ride on your unicorn across a rainbow bridge, because you are in a fantasy land of make-believe.

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Originally Posted by eth0s

Well, somehow this thread got away from the main issue: Adobe totally sucks. There is no debating that point. Adobe should concentrate on plugging the gaping security holes it opens on your computer first. But what do I know, maybe you guys like running Malwarebytes every 10 minutes. Me, personally, I don't like it. But everybody is different.

Second, I'm hearing a lot of hate about Steve Jobs. Why? Dunno. Some of you guys seem to think he is supposed to act like Mother Theresa and feed the poor or something. Let me tell you, maybe this is the first time you are hearing this, but here is what Mr. Jobs really is: an old fashioned American Capitalist. Did you miss that somehow? He is doing exactly what Alfred P. Sloan (See, google.com) said a corporation should do: create customers. Jobs is the best at creating customers. ipad? Why anybody wants it is a mystery to me, but they love it. iphone is the same thing. And ipod is even worse. So why the hate? Do you hate capitalism? If yes, then do something about it, like join the Communist party. If not, then stop complaining. Or pick up an intro to Econ book sometime and read the chapter about how capitalists love to compete with someone who makes the same product cheaper and better. And then read the chapter about how capitalists like to help the consumer have a nice day. And then take a ride on your unicorn across a rainbow bridge, because you are in a fantasy land of make-believe.

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The argument has nothing against or for Apple, adobe, or any other business.
The problem is unless a standard is open enough to allow open source projects to emulate it within 5 years, then it isn't possible to be a true standard; let alone something that could truly survive in a capitalistic society...

As for why people hate Steve Jobs, well either they are reasonable sane individuals or they have actual personally interacted with him.
He was the biggest douche bag I've EVER had the discomfort to meet.
Not the mention, it is hard to like a man who refused to acknowledge his own daughter. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&ei=CAXV...f73b7d243bf661

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Originally Posted by Dainas

I love it how people cannot comprehend the fact that Adobe flash is the bigger detriment to the entire computer industry. Apple not supporting it on their iphone is a good thing, might make Adobe consider actually pulling some effort into before sending it out the door, or better yet snowballs into flash being replaced by a better standard.

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I'll agree with you...in part. I agree that at the MOMENT flash is in a bad place, but this is because flash was used in ways other than why it was developed. And while adobe should have revamped the software to better support the new uses that developers made, they didn't. Thus the inefficiency. HTML5 is also hit or miss, as most browsers still have issues with HTML5, and remember how many users still [sadly] use IE6. While I want flash dead, I don't see it happening soon

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Originally Posted by [XC] leviathan18

still cant multitask properly, it stacks the apps, with my N900 when i put the app manager i can see my videos playing my website flash banners doing their thing, etc etc real multi task.

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i know... amazing considering its been out for over 3 years...

about adobe... it feels sluggish and slow and buggy at times, but if it would be easy to get this right, how come ms or google or apple for that matter havent come up with an alternative? they havent... at least none that managed to compete... lets face it, without adobe the net would be a pretty boring place...

MS has silverlight, although its a giant security hole

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Originally Posted by saaya

lets face it, without adobe the net would be a pretty boring place...

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Macromedia wasn't so bad ^^

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Originally Posted by DeltZ

Macromedia wasn't so bad ^^

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yah imagine how much better the world be if adobe didnt buy macromedia we would have working dreamweaver and flash would have stayed updated on winmo and im guessing they would have droid support already. and it would cost less than a grand to get the software for web and flash design.

i still like the mx2005 over adobe's stuff

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

My Notebook has to run without hassles. I had to reinstall Windows several times and every time I had to change several settings and install several programs before it was useable for me. That is plain annoying :(

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What "settings" do you need to change after installing Windows? Pretty much the only thing I change in Win7 is the update notification.
Oh, I change the display theme too, but that doesn't count.

As for apps, yes, you need to install them. Life is really boring on a PC without apps. The magical Mac doesn't need app installation then, I suppose? :P


Seriously, I fail to see the points of your criticism. My 2 laptops have been running Win7 for well over a year now without problems; I have yet to run into the "hassles" that you speak of.

Sorry apple, but I love Youtube, Newgrounds and Weebl and Bob far too much to ever consider buying an internet device without flash.

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Originally Posted by bizkit35461

I'll agree with you...in part. I agree that at the MOMENT flash is in a bad place, but this is because flash was used in ways other than why it was developed. And while adobe should have revamped the software to better support the new uses that developers made, they didn't. Thus the inefficiency. HTML5 is also hit or miss, as most browsers still have issues with HTML5, and remember how many users still [sadly] use IE6. While I want flash dead, I don't see it happening soon

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I agree. The funny part though, is that at the moment Flash is more efficient than HTML5, even on a browser like Chrome for example. It's easier to build a nice looking interactive site by using Flash than it is by using HTML5 (and other accompanying W3C standards) and the Flash version of that site will be less of a resource hog. This does depend on your platform though, Flash isn't as heavily optimized on the Mac and on Linux as it is on Windows and that's mainly because only Windows has the necessary APIs for certain hardware acceleration features (the Mac now has them as well, for a little under a week).
Here are some interesting sites regarding Flash and HTML performance:
http://androidcommunity.com/flash-10...head-20100331/
http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/201...ating-systems/
http://www.streaminglearningcenter.c...-depends-.html
http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

MS has silverlight, although its a giant security hole

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Could you back that up with facts? I could make the same claims for any software, but I don't think many people would take me serious if I didn't provide some data to backup my claim. Although I think most would agree that Flash is a giant security hole though :p: (as is Firefox).

oh yeah about the security stuff... adobe is so insecure supposedly, but has any of you actually ever faced any issues with it?
i never have... :confused:

I've seen Quicktime security holes get exploited if that helps. But don't tell the Apple apologists or they get cranky.

Now a days I hope every single user that ever cried "I'm going with Apple next time" would simply man up, say nothing, and go and do it. Never look back. Until of course you can't do the simplest of things, or the new feature you want is only on snow-leopard-tiger-huugybear, and you've only got snow-leopard. Oh, those aren't patches or releases to fix problems, they a revolutionary carry-ons of the "flawless from the start" Apple way of doing things.

This is the fundamental problem with Apple. Do they lie to their users? I think so. Sooner or (usually) later people realize this and move on.

So, for the i-phone, ipads, and whatever else poppads I say just do it. Go for it. The Apple is the best there ever was, and they even have the great truth-teller himself, Al Gore on the board of directors. Sort of funny, the Apple ads are just about as accurate as the global warming, oops, climate change, oops Anthropogenic Climate Change BS. Maybe now we know why Gore is at Apple.

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Originally Posted by Vinas

Now a days I hope every single user that ever cried "I'm going with Apple next time" would simply man up, say nothing, and go and do it. Never look back. Until of course you can't do the simplest of things, or the new feature you want is only on snow-leopard-tiger-huugybear, and you've only got snow-leopard. Oh, those aren't patches or releases to fix problems, they a revolutionary carry-ons of the "flawless from the start" Apple way of doing things.

This is the fundamental problem with Apple. Do they lie to their users? I think so. Sooner or (usually) later people realize this and move on.

So, for the i-phone, ipads, and whatever else poppads I say just do it. Go for it. The Apple is the best there ever was, and they even have the great truth-teller himself, Al Gore on the board of directors. Sort of funny, the Apple ads are just about as accurate as the global warming, oops, climate change, oops Anthropogenic Climate Change BS. Maybe now we know why Gore is at Apple.

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Politics. Yay.

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Originally Posted by saaya

oh yeah about the security stuff... adobe is so insecure supposedly, but has any of you actually ever faced any issues with it?
i never have... :confused:

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yes but only with flash triggering the JRE but now that all (or opera and FF) have full sandboxed java clients the JRE dosnt get installed and i havnt had problems

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Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

I've seen Quicktime security holes get exploited if that helps. But don't tell the Apple apologists or they get cranky.

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dont forget that apple puts un-sandboxed java on everything there is nothing easier to exploit

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Originally Posted by Vinas

Now a days I hope every single user that ever cried "I'm going with Apple next time" would simply man up, say nothing, and go and do it. Never look back. Until of course you can't do the simplest of things, or the new feature you want is only on snow-leopard-tiger-huugybear, and you've only got snow-leopard. Oh, those aren't patches or releases to fix problems, they a revolutionary carry-ons of the "flawless from the start" Apple way of doing things.

This is the fundamental problem with Apple. Do they lie to their users? I think so. Sooner or (usually) later people realize this and move on.

So, for the i-phone, ipads, and whatever else poppads I say just do it. Go for it. The Apple is the best there ever was, and they even have the great truth-teller himself, Al Gore on the board of directors. Sort of funny, the Apple ads are just about as accurate as the global warming, oops, climate change, oops Anthropogenic Climate Change BS. Maybe now we know why Gore is at Apple.

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http://www.potozniak.org/pics/1up.jpg

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Originally Posted by Helmore

Could you back that up with facts? I could make the same claims for any software, but I don't think many people would take me serious if I didn't provide some data to backup my claim. Although I think most would agree that Flash is a giant security hole though :p: (as is Firefox).

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sorry missed your post, if u look on MS's forums they have a whole list of holes that need to be fixed and silverlight has root access in IE to install things remotely and run power shell. it may have been fixed but ive never seen a MS rep that had it installed other than on the tech demo for that.

FF and flash have problems but when the employees of the software maker and the devs who demo it dont use it on their own systems im not going to