Choose the soundcard for me

Been looking lately at buying a really nice sound card, I should specify < $160

Hard to decide after seeing so many inconsistencies on the forums! Some say the Creative X-FI Titanium are complete *censored* and I should say away from them (driver issues?) while others recommend the Asus Xonar D2X

I think those cards are a bit too powerful from what I'm looking for to be honest.

Is this a bad card?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...abs-_-29102006

How about this one?
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...zCjCVqHCjCdwwp

What are your goals? Asus's Essence ST is a very good card if music is your main goal. The STX is a step down, but is also rated well. If you're gaming, it's hard to go wrong with the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty or Azuentech Forte.

--Matt

Yeah was leaning more towards the gaming department.

i would get the auzen x-forte

I was a Creative Labs guy for years and years, until about 2003. I've read only bad problems with Creative and their drivers, so I'm not sure I'd recommend them. At the least I'd say buy it at Newegg and be ready to test it to death and return it within the 30 days if you don't like it. I think that's the best recommendation I could offer.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

i would get the auzen x-forte

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+1
Definitely.

Well even if you specify gaming you really should tell us what kind of games, what spec you have, and if you need to prioritize getting as high FPS as possible due to your spec and/or using Fraps, etc. Where every FPS of the frame rate is critical, a hardware decoding card like Creative or Auzentech is nice to have. You also need to mention if EAX matters to you, and keep in mind that is not mere audio positioning like some say, but rather accurate environment acoustics reproduction, which is different.

Also, if you're just leaning toward, vs exclusively gaming, how much will you use it for music, movies, etc? There are some cards that strike a pretty good balance at a variety of things. For instance for a mere $105, this is one of the best sounding cards in it's price range: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Tpk=bEnspirer It uses the same C-Media Oxygen DSP a lot of cards costing over $150 use. The DSP does run a bit hot on that card though, so some use a stick on HS on it.

From further gleaning though, what appears to cause the the problems with the analog going out that some complain about with that card, is it's having a fairly sensitive voltage regulator, so you have to be careful about introducing static. For instance some people aren't every careful how they plug and unplug their speakers and such.

Bluegears are now in the preproduction stage of building a prototype for a new card though. Their goal is to stay near the $100 range with the same vendor, C-Media, despite C-Media pricing and exclusivity with certain brands escalating. If that fails, they may make a card around VIA's new Tremor chip, but VIA does not driver update nearly as often.

I'd use it for music quite often... movies however not so much. I always end up plugging my laptop to my TV to watch movies

If you're gaming, an X-Fi of some sort is still the option of choice. The Forte gets my vote as well.

What's the difference there between the X-FI and that Forte you guys speak of?

FYI, the X-Fi XtremeGamer DOES NOT have the 64MB of X-RAM used to accelerate gaming by offloading sounds. I think thats kinda retarded because their gaming specific card is one of the only ones that cant accelerate gaming... Anyway, just a heads up.

Forte is a card by Auzentech that uses the X-Fi chipset. It has better circuit design, better capacitors, better op amps, and a built in headphone amp. Basically its better than the X-FI cards in every way, including price. Since it uses the X-Fi chipset, it also has hardware EAX 5.0.

Better drivers too on the Forte from what I've read. The X-Ram you speak of though is only useful for games with Ultra Audio from what I've read, and there are even fewer of those than there are EAX games.

The Forte includes the 64MB? Also, the Forte better than the Asus D2X?

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Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Better drivers too on the Forte from what I've read. The X-Ram you speak of though is only useful for games with Ultra Audio from what I've read, and there are even fewer of those than there are EAX games.

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Originally Posted by MrDiaz

The Forte includes the 64MB? Also, the Forte better than the Asus D2X?

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the xram is useless its used in a couple of games and dose not improve performance, it also only works in XP.

the forte is good for its headphone amp jack port and overall quality, its the same price as the titanium fatality and $20-30 more than the OEM titanium and its well worth it for gaming or headphone music/movies or general use

Very nice, that helps quite a lot.

What are your thoughts for this guy here?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...2418&sku=23788

The Prelude's not bad if you can't get the Forte. It lacks the headphone amp, but has swappable opamps. It also supports EAX 5. If you're not into using headphones a lot it's actually a bit more well rounded card due to the swappable opamps. Overall the Forte has pretty good parts stock though, and hits a better price point.

The Prelude has a better analogue output section, so if you use your speakers more often than your headphones it would be a good choice. However, most people would never notice the difference on standard PC speakers.

So you're saying the Forte is still a better card than the prelude? At the moment I'm not using headphones, I have an old Cambridge SoundWorks FourPointSurround FPS1800 4.1 Speaker System

HT | Omega Claro Halo XT is good.

Auzentech Forte is good.

Asus Xonar is good.

Don't think they're under $160 though.

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Originally Posted by MrDiaz

So you're saying the Forte is still a better card than the prelude? At the moment I'm not using headphones, I have an old Cambridge SoundWorks FourPointSurround FPS1800 4.1 Speaker System

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It depends on your needs. If you use headphones mainly, get the Forte. If you use your speakers mainly, get the Prelude. If you're about 50/50, get the Forte, but only because the difference between the headphone quality would likely be more noticeable than the difference between the speaker quality of the two cards. And when I say headphones, I mean a pair of quality stereo headphones, none of that 5.1 gibberish or generic PC headset crap. Also, the Forte is PCI-e 1x, while the Prelude is PCI. So, depending on your slot configuration, you may have to choose one over the other regardless of the pros and cons.

Sounds good, thanks a bunch for the input!

Some claim as well that the PCI slots actually deliver more consistent power output than the Pci-Ex 1x slots do, but I've seen no actual tests done on this. The Pci-Ex slots have greater bandwidth, but AFAIK no sound cards that fit in them even begin to make use of it all.

X-Fi Forte 7.1 is better than everything except Prelude.

But for gaming only and such.. Xonar isnt bad choice.. plus they are quite cheap I think.

+1 on the Forte

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Originally Posted by Bolas

Auzentech Forte is good.
Don't think they're under $160 though.

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Auzentech Forte is on Auzentech site $149,99.

But it is on backorder.

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_forte.php

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Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Better drivers too on the Forte from what I've read.

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Eeh, doesn't the Forte use creative drivers? I downloaded their driver package and peeked through the files and it appears to include creative components.

--Matt

Yes, of course it uses Creative components. Any sound card in fact is subject to the driver updates the main chip (DSP) the manufacturer issues (in this case it's the whole X-Fi chipset). The difference however is the details of the driver support. There's a lot more to drivers than their main components. Often times they need minor tweaks to resolve issues, doesn't mean the main components change. For instance the drivers Angel Trinidad ("Omegaman") made for ATI GPUs (and also Nvidia for a little while), commonly referred to as Omega drivers, were basically the drivers issued for those products that he streamlined, refined, and added fixes to, which often gave a bit of a performance boost and/or minimized or eliminated problems people were having.

Based on personal experience with Vista and 7 64 bit I swore to stay away from Creative and X-Fi. Go Asus.

Have the Forte here on an Windows 7 machine, before Windows Vista.
No problems what so ever.

Forte has own drivers and only connection with Creative is chip used, which is good. Never failed me and sound great. :) Tough, Ill get Prelude probably as I want switchable OPAMPs for headphone output. :)

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Originally Posted by Mescalamba

Forte has own drivers and only connection with Creative is chip used, which is good.

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I'm sorry, but that's really not true. Look at the driver files. They're all made by Creative. They even use the same installer.

--Matt

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Originally Posted by mattkosem

I'm sorry, but that's really not true. Look at the driver files. They're all made by Creative. They even use the same installer.

--Matt

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I almost posted in this thread Matt but didn't until now. I'd tried to explain to at least 3 of the posters here but they didn't seem to be bothered with Facts, not my opinion. While the Prelude is a quite different from the older X-Fi with the same DSP, the Forte is closer to the Titanium.

Auzentech, Rocketfish, Asus, and MSI use Creative's drivers. They tweak and twist them, but they're still Creative's. :D

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

I almost posted in this thread Matt but didn't until now. I'd tried to explain to at least 3 of the posters here but they didn't seem to be bothered with Facts, not my opinion. While the Prelude is a quite different from the older X-Fi with the same DSP, the Forte is closer to the Titanium.

Auzentech, Rocketfish, Asus, and MSI use Creative's drivers. They tweak and twist them, but they're still Creative's. :D

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But Creative's drivers are the essence of Satan and everyone knows they don't work, no matter what! Not a single X-Fi has ever worked properly! Lies, I say, lies!

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Originally Posted by YukonTrooper

But Creative's drivers are the essence of Satan and everyone knows they don't work, no matter what! Not a single X-Fi has ever worked properly! Lies, I say, lies!

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TBQH, my only gripe with Creative's drivers is their crap ASIO support. I've been happy with my X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty so far otherwise.

--Matt

Whoa, we have a statement above that completely distorts the reality if you are unaware. A driver created by someone, then tweaked to make improvements by someone else, is often an entirely different thing from the original in how well it performs. So to say Auzentech just tweaks them but they're Creative drivers is quite misleading. That's like saying W7 is Vista because it's based on Vista.

The main thing I'm concerned about at this point, since the W7 issues seem to have been worked out, is how well the Forte fits on Giga X58 MBs. I am mainly concerned about whether it clears the south bridge HS (mounted in top Pci-Ex slot), and if there are any incompatibility issues at all. If anyone has used it on a Giga X58, please respond.

I use the Prelude in a high end Hi-Fi set up and I have to say it kicks righteous a$$ :)

Especially when compared to a few Creative's and the odd Terratec card I have tried.

I will never upgrade this card as long as I have a PCI slot to run it in :D

I do not use headphones with it so I do not miss the lack of headphone amp....

Recommended (if you can find one and have a PCI slot free).

Prelude + Rotel + Acoustic Energy = B L I S S :up:

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Originally Posted by Biker

I use the Prelude in a high end Hi-Fi set up and I have to say it kicks righteous a$$ :)

Especially when compared to a few Creative's and the odd Terratec card I have tried.

I will never upgrade this card as long as I have a PCI slot to run it in :D

I do not use headphones with it so I do not miss the lack of headphone amp....

Recommended (if you can find one and have a PCI slot free).

Prelude + Rotel + Acoustic Energy = B L I S S :up:

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What kind of DAC are you using between the Prelude and that Rotel amp? It's likely to have a bigger improvement on the sound quality than the card itself.

--Matt

He could just be going analog into the Rotel. Thats what I would do with a nice card like the Prelude. No sense having that card if you dont use its onboard processing capabilities.

i wouldnt buy a creative card
creative drivers suk 99% of the time
i got a forte and love it

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Originally Posted by EniGmA1987

He could just be going analog into the Rotel. Thats what I would do with a nice card like the Prelude. No sense having that card if you dont use its onboard processing capabilities.

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To each his own I guess. It's generally accepted that a quality DAC outperforms the dac on a consumer-grade sound card, and reasonable all the way around. The sound card is in a turbulent environment from an EMI standpoint, especially in higher end computers that consume more power. The power supply is also not dedicated to the device or isolated from other devices, and provides a much poorer source of power than a proper audiophile component has.

His Rotel amp is likely >$1000, who knows which speakers he is running and how much they cost. It seems silly and nonsensical to feed it with a $200 source. An audio system is no better than its weakest link. After hearing the difference between the output on my X-Fi (which is, admittedly, not as high quality as the Prelude) and my DAC, I definitely won't be going back to an internal solution for my D/A conversion anytime soon. I've got an M2Tech Hiface on the way to replace my X-Fi, since it's currently my weakest link and the crap Creative ASIO drivers are so problematic when changing bit and sample rates between 16/44.1 and 24/96 tracks. It's all about the last 5% when you're running high-end hi-fi equipment.

--Matt

Auzentech X-FI Forte 7.1 or Auzentech X-FI Prelude 7.1 the best choice for you. I have a Forte in my gaming rig with a 5.1 Surround speaker system and it blows my other card wich its an ASUS Xonar Essence STX. The sounds on the Forte are crisp and clear and have a thumping bass in games , in music and movies my Forte sounds better than my Asus. I actually got a great bargain for my Forte , i bought it refurb with 1 year warranty from Auzentech and i paid only $90US Dollars for it :D , all the Fortes refurb have bben sold at the Auzentech website but they still have a few Preludes if you want one hurry up they sale like hot cakes.


Here Auzentech X-FI Prelude only $104US Dollars - http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/refurbished.php
It comes with everything as a new card including the one year warranty from them , awsome deal for those cards.
Good Luck and enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by YukonTrooper

But Creative's drivers are the essence of Satan and everyone knows they don't work, no matter what! Not a single X-Fi has ever worked properly! Lies, I say, lies!

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Hehehehe!

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Originally Posted by Frag Maniac

Whoa, we have a statement above that completely distorts the reality if you are unaware. A driver created by someone, then tweaked to make improvements by someone else, is often an entirely different thing from the original in how well it performs. So to say Auzentech just tweaks them but they're Creative drivers is quite misleading. That's like saying W7 is Vista because it's based on Vista.

The main thing I'm concerned about at this point, since the W7 issues seem to have been worked out, is how well the Forte fits on Giga X58 MBs. I am mainly concerned about whether it clears the south bridge HS (mounted in top Pci-Ex slot), and if there are any incompatibility issues at all. If anyone has used it on a Giga X58, please respond.

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So says the expert who hasn't tested the card:rofl:

There aren't any improvements, merely flags and apps removed to be sold separately, like Creative Tool Box LOL! I have both the Xtreme Music and Prelude, the drivers aren't much different at all. Posters have mentioned this TO YOU before, why do persist? The only thing misleading here is YOU! The tweaks are more for software, not the hardware. I'm using W7 (tri-booted in fact) and with an Xtreme Music. Moved the Prelude to the home theater PCI haven't had any problems other than DRM, that has nothing to do with Creative. The main reason I've not dumped WinXP yet.

My motherboards are Foxconn (2 Foxconns), Gigabyte and Asus in the 4 computers in my home. They all have or had X-fi's of one kind or another.

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Originally Posted by Matt

TBQH, my only gripe with Creative's drivers is their crap ASIO support. I've been happy with my X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty so far otherwise.

--Matt

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That's because Creative ASIO was made for Hardware DSP running in system mode. Vista and Win7 uses user mode. Each OS see things like ASIO as anti-DRM and that causes problems. I have 5.1 Analog recordings to prove it!:up: They'll eventually killed WinXP because it has not Hang-ups like this.

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Originally Posted by EniGmA1987

He could just be going analog into the Rotel. Thats what I would do with a nice card like the Prelude. No sense having that card if you dont use its onboard processing capabilities.

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That's what I do and love it! Even with a lowly Pioneer VSX 819H because I don't have enough better than CD Quality Source material to justify anything else.

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Originally Posted by mattkosem

To each his own I guess. It's generally accepted that a quality DAC outperforms the dac on a consumer-grade sound card, and reasonable all the way around. The sound card is in a turbulent environment from an EMI standpoint, especially in higher end computers that consume more power. The power supply is also not dedicated to the device or isolated from other devices, and provides a much poorer source of power than a proper audiophile component has.

His Rotel amp is likely >$1000, who knows which speakers he is running and how much they cost. It seems silly and nonsensical to feed it with a $200 source. An audio system is no better than its weakest link. After hearing the difference between the output on my X-Fi (which is, admittedly, not as high quality as the Prelude) and my DAC, I definitely won't be going back to an internal solution for my D/A conversion anytime soon. I've got an M2Tech Hiface on the way to replace my X-Fi, since it's currently my weakest link and the crap Creative ASIO drivers are so problematic when changing bit and sample rates between 16/44.1 and 24/96 tracks. It's all about the last 5% when you're running high-end hi-fi equipment.

--Matt

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Again, do like a friend of mine told me to do. Build an el-cheapo system with a big hard drive/s and Prelude that might be slightly better for analog ASIO recordings. With a lower power power-supply, NO OVERCLOCKING, consumer grade non-gaming Video Card or On board and install Windows XP-32bit.

Either way Matt, good luck with whatever you install, great sounds are more important than any kind of sound card. Getting there is more important than how you got there! MY HTPC gets Zero EMI interference with my Prelude.
Since I stopped overclocking I get Zero interference from my Main rig with the Xtreme Music.

I like My Harmon Kardons in multi-ch direct or Analog mode as well.

Hi, from my experience you should go with ASUS if you have vista or W7.If you still use xp as i do, get x-fi.