XFX Will Not Offer GeForce 400 Series GPUs

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We just received confirmation that XFX, a division of PINE Technologies, will not be releasing any GeForce GTX 400 series graphics cards to the market when the cards become public next month. XFX was not listed as a launch partner for Fermi and did not issue a press release about the upcoming cards, which might come as a shock to many of our readers as they are one of the largest NVIDIA add-in board (AIB) partners in the world! XFX said that the decision not to carry this series of GF100 graphics card was their decision and that they will still be carrying NVIDIA products. From our conversation with XFX they mentioned that they have "yet to see whether the fermented launch will reach an inglorious anti-climax" and mentioned they want to "Ferm up to who really has the big Guns". We are guessing they mean AMD and it sounds like they have something special cooking up there too.

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Link: http://forums.legitreviews.com/about...39%3Cbr%20/%3E

They are going with ATi it seems. I feel the 400 series is a disapointment. I thought it would crush ATi 5000 series by a lot, but it doesn't.

XFX version of the 5870 lightning perhaps?

XFX is still dedicated to the cut-down versions. Just not the GTX 480 and GTX 470.

Makes sense for them. Their double warranty + Furnace 480 = bankruptcy from all the potential RMA's.

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Originally Posted by Splave

XFX version of the 5870 lightning perhaps?

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as that's a custom msi card, probably not. it looks like they're going for the titantic 4gb 5970... for $1000. this doesn't make good business sence to me, why turn down the halo card nvidia is handing them and try to sell something that's twice as expensive instead? i understand they've been burned by nvidia before (but then, all of thier partners have), this will make them the first partner to jump ship entirely. and why wait until now? it would have made sence to gtfo during the dry spell when nvidia didn't have anything to sell, but now that they have a competative product it seems like xfx is turning down money.... even if you don't like nvidia's new gtx4x0 series, we all know that a lot of people have been waiting to buy these cards and they will make nvidia + AIB's lot's of money. seems like xfx is holding a grudge...

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Originally Posted by kadozer

Makes sense for them. Their double warranty + Furnace 480 = bankruptcy from all the potential RMA's.

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lol furnace:rofl:


buyt yeah they have gone ATI only, or ATI high end only if u will... what about some ATI only makers gone nv?

It looks like XFX loves ATI more, I mean, they already made a 4GB 5970 OC edition for ATI, and I expect more ATI cards from these guys. Whatever happened to when XFX was NVIDIA's biggest partner before they ditched them for ATI.

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Originally Posted by Chrono Detector

It looks like XFX loves ATI more, I mean, they already made a 4GB 5970 OC edition for ATI, and I expect more ATI cards from these guys. Whatever happened to when XFX was NVIDIA's biggest partner before they ditched them for ATI.

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maybe they got some really early fermi samples, or just weren't a fan of the GTX 295

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Originally Posted by Hitler

I will not lose my honor, even if it means going down with the ship like EVGA...
Farmville is all I need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZXhR1ibj8

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Still remember these epic conv :D

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Originally Posted by 570091D

as that's a custom msi card, probably not. it looks like they're going for the titantic 4gb 5970... for $1000. this doesn't make good business sence to me, why turn down the halo card nvidia is handing them and try to sell something that's twice as expensive instead? i understand they've been burned by nvidia before (but then, all of thier partners have), this will make them the first partner to jump ship entirely. and why wait until now? it would have made sence to gtfo during the dry spell when nvidia didn't have anything to sell, but now that they have a competative product it seems like xfx is turning down money.... even if you don't like nvidia's new gtx4x0 series, we all know that a lot of people have been waiting to buy these cards and they will make nvidia + AIB's lot's of money. seems like xfx is holding a grudge...

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I think XFX will eventually also be selling Fermi based GPUs, they're probably just waiting for the right moment to do so.

They will not release any Fermi cards at launch. That's it.

I expect them to release GTX 400 refresh's if not GTX 480's as there will most likely be a huge RMA risk and since XFX is so huge they may have trouble.

For me XFX lost its touch a while ago so either way idc if they sale or not.

Maybe XFX don't want to retool for wood screw production used in the assembly process of the GTX 400 cards, besides spring and summer is just around the corner and furnace sales will drop dramatically.

Not surprising since Nvidia are short on GPU and XFX went profiting on the 5xxx.

^ Can anyone get any confirmation if they're getting some 480gtx after launch? Their warranty will be missed.

Nvidia antitrust


Nvidia is punishing this highly successful brand by cutting them off from Geforce GTX 480 and 470 launch cards, and this is a direct result of XFX's last year's decision to to start selling ATI

source
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18278/34/

hey i just said that^
ha ha say what you will but nv is the one who made the decidion months back, its a slap on the wrist for selling ati cards. only top tier nv partners got fermi cards....do you think the cards will rma as much as the 5xxx grey screen issues lol heck i had to send back two xfx 5870's one for arti's one for long beep of death right out of the box.
maybe ati killed xfx lol

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Originally Posted by aqualab

Nvidia antitrust


Nvidia is punishing this highly successful brand by cutting them off from Geforce GTX 480 and 470 launch cards, and this is a direct result of XFX's last year's decision to to start selling ATI

source
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18278/34/

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That's just Fudo being himself and editorializing. Everyone I have talked to at XFX states this was their decision and that NVIDIA was more than willing to support them for this launch. IMO, it all comes down to trying to cut back a bit in what is still a very tough market.

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Originally Posted by zalbard

They will not release any Fermi cards at launch. That's it.

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No. For all intents and purposes, there will be no XFX branded GTX 480 or 470 cards at all. Period. At least that's how things stand right now.

oh really is that what they told you?
they should have told you that three months ago or they just did not know maybe? pr people they are always the last to know.

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Originally Posted by 570091D

as that's a custom msi card, probably not. it looks like they're going for the titantic 4gb 5970... for $1000. this doesn't make good business sence to me, why turn down the halo card nvidia is handing them and try to sell something that's twice as expensive instead? i understand they've been burned by nvidia before (but then, all of thier partners have), this will make them the first partner to jump ship entirely. and why wait until now? it would have made sence to gtfo during the dry spell when nvidia didn't have anything to sell, but now that they have a competative product it seems like xfx is turning down money.... even if you don't like nvidia's new gtx4x0 series, we all know that a lot of people have been waiting to buy these cards and they will make nvidia + AIB's lot's of money. seems like xfx is holding a grudge...

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I meant a lightning style 5870 :up: not the actual card

This made into news articles a couple of months ago, actually, so it's not surprising.

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Originally Posted by cowie

oh really is that what they told you?
they should have told you that three months ago or they just did not know maybe? pr people they are always the last to know.

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It was very much a last minute decision. We are in touch with technical and PR people at XFX but the people in the North American office were among the first to know.

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Originally Posted by helmore

i think xfx will eventually also be selling fermi based gpus, they're probably just waiting for the right moment to do so.

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gf104 ?

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Originally Posted by aqualab

Nvidia antitrust


Nvidia is punishing this highly successful brand by cutting them off from Geforce GTX 480 and 470 launch cards, and this is a direct result of XFX's last year's decision to to start selling ATI

source
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18278/34/

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that is probably the real reason XFX isnt selling 470 an 480 at launch.

Nvidia is known to punish partners that start selling ATI by removing them from their launch partner list.

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Originally Posted by Starscream

that is probably the real reason XFX isnt selling 470 an 480 at launch.

Nvidia is known to punish partners that start selling ATI by removing them from their launch partner list.

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Huh? ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI and Palit are all launch partners and are selling from both sides of the fence.

But they weren't Nvidia exclusive the year before.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

That's just Fudo being himself and editorializing. Everyone I have talked to at XFX states this was their decision and that NVIDIA was more than willing to support them for this launch. IMO, it all comes down to trying to cut back a bit in what is still a very tough market.



No. For all intents and purposes, there will be no XFX branded GTX 480 or 470 cards at all. Period. At least that's how things stand right now.

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Doesn't this speak volumes about the whole process to acquire them (buying old G92 parts ... who knows?) and the expected profit per unit? I assume other tier one OEMs like EVGA or the like may just squeak by, but XFX's decision not to carry them at all is ominous.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

XFX is still dedicated to the cut-down versions. Just not the GTX 480 and GTX 470.

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so no GF100 for XFX? :(

Could be warranty issues. God knows how many problems XFX has had with previous nvidia boards, and one particular model comes to mind...

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Originally Posted by damha

Could be warranty issues. God knows how many problems XFX has had with previous nvidia boards, and one particular model comes to mind...

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Yeah, like their problems with a load of HD 4890 cards and some emerging problems with some 5000-series cards not based off of AMD's reference PCB...

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Huh? ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI and Palit are all launch partners and are selling from both sides of the fence.

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and they have all been punished for doing so in the past.

Nvidia excluded both from the launch partner list on the first big launch after they started selling ATI.

After this they picked them up as launch partners again. Mostly i think because if they kept punishing them every launch then there wouldnt be many launch partners left.

Further Nvidia can also punish partners by giving them less GPUs at launch.

With money spent on custom PCBs and trying to get the in-house coolers to fit, I'd sooner say things are on hold. They won't get any GPUs for launch and are seriously pissed about it.

Still, XFX sells a buttload of GeForce cards around Europe and NVIDIA isn't stupid enough to let that go. XFX also wants to sell those cards and will most likely eventually do so.

//Andreas

Q: Why does a business drop a product line?
A: Its not profitable.

Well that might be a gross oversimplification, but is probably hits the mark. Possible reasons:

1. Nvidia pushed board partners margins to low.
2. Nvidia only supplies fermi as part of a bundle of chips that xfx decided was unprofitable as a whole.
3. xfx has some insight that fermi is going to be rma hell because of high temps and "7 billion poisoned vias" per chip.
4. Ati has offered incentive to snuggle closer:)

Number 3 is only one that is really a concern to us.

i could have sworn that Nvidia wasnt letting them make the new cards. I knew that last year.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Yeah, like their problems with a load of HD 4890 cards and some emerging problems with some 5000-series cards not based off of AMD's reference PCB...

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lol there something between you and ati thats for sure :p:

I would kill GTX400 if I could choose. What a huge disappointment, especially the unimpressive numbers after the LONG delay.

I think it's simply about the money, as in the loss of if XFX were to put out GTX4xx cards. There is no doubt going to be lots of RMA's from melting fermi's and I think XFX has decided that those cards just aren't worth the headache at this point and time. I mean really the margins for these things has to be tiny already due to manufacturing cost. Couple that with the impending RMA's and you can see the writing on the wall.

oh come on, i am just getting tired of all the crap people says about the fermi. First off fermi is the first nvidia product i will ever have so there is no freaking fanboyism in my post ( i am currently a owner of hd 5770and i love it for what it can do). Then fermi is not a bad product at all. Get over this Nvidia used a completly new arch instead of using their old g80 arch and juts die shrink it and call it a day like Ati have done with the hd5xxx serie. Yes fermi is hot and use alot of power. Now lets go see again the new arch from both side. That mean lets take a look at g80 and for ati if i remember well its rv670. So what i find out when i check out the flagship card of both new arch from both sidem well we find out a Hd 2900 xt and a 8800gtx. Oh noes !!!!! both card were said to be very hot, very power consuming and the didnt gave alot of improvement from the previous gen cards. And its noit just one side that got those problems both had it. Now we have a card that actually DO give a performance boost from last gen cards, beat the Hd5870 especially with with high aa and af by atleast 10% but is hotter than the others and use a bit more power and everyone says that Fermi is pure BULL:banana::banana::banana::banana:. Well do you wanna know something. You are JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOTIC TROLL.

Seriously even in car forum i have never seen such Fanboyism. Heck i am sure you could scare some spectator of the Bathurst 24hr race with your fanboyism.

end of my big rant

Ps: if any mod or admin think i have gone too far plz tell me before you ban me.

I could speculate and read up on the rumors about why XFX is not putting out GTX480 cards at launch;
It could have been one or the other, or both.
But what really matters to me is that (unfortunately) they aren't doing it, and their warranty will not be on the GTX480.
If they begin to produce them over time or under the refresh, well that's equally important I hope they do.

I think they'll wait for the new revision or a die shrink before they support the high end GTX4xx cards. They just don't want to get burned with the current incarnation of Ferni. Why else would they say no to the top cards and yes to low end and mainstream cards.

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Originally Posted by Mysterfix

I think it's simply about the money, as in the loss of if XFX were to put out GTX4xx cards. There is no doubt going to be lots of RMA's from melting fermi's and I think XFX has decided that those cards just aren't worth the headache at this point and time. I mean really the margins for these things has to be tiny already due to manufacturing cost. Couple that with the impending RMA's and you can see the writing on the wall.

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+1, they also have the 58xx and 59xx and im sure that has higher profit margins, if u notice xfx only sells ati parts and profitable things from NV (the gf2xx parts/g92) and they dont have wide availability except for the 220/240 from NV

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Originally Posted by Zonker

Q: Why does a business drop a product line?
A: Its not profitable.

Well that might be a gross oversimplification, but is probably hits the mark. Possible reasons:

1. Nvidia pushed board partners margins to low.
2. Nvidia only supplies fermi as part of a bundle of chips that xfx decided was unprofitable as a whole.
3. xfx has some insight that fermi is going to be rma hell because of high temps and "7 billion poisoned vias" per chip.
4. Ati has offered incentive to snuggle closer:)

Number 3 is only one that is really a concern to us.

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i do believe intel has a lawsuit in progress from amd over these types of market tactics, can't see amd trying any of the same silliness. offering your partners a deal if they exclude your competitor is very illegal. and as for point #3, the via issue was fixed before evergreen began mass production. channels are the problem of today... well a problem for some.

Yeah this really has nothing to do with ATI or nvidia punishing them. XFX are hardly a bastion of backbone and I'm surprised they didn't ditch the second it was apparent fermi was delayed. Warranty problems, hah! XFX has the same "screw you customer, were infallible" attitude as Asus.

I can see some peoples point of XFX not producing the card because of

A) its a gamble on a card that is apparently too hot and could lead to many RMA's ETC

B)The architecture of the graphics card is less than insipring.

These are all conclusive and valid assumptions which we can to an extent believe in. However people are forgetting the fact that XFX is producing mainstream fermi cards. At the end of the day the way i see it is that Nvidia is kinda punishing XFX to a certain extent as I cannnot fathom XFX losing out on a section of the market which could be lucrative to them. They certainly have a fanbase within the Nvidia group and will not like to see their section of customers go to another brand. They are a business at the end of the day and to not offer a card like fermi to their customers is a blow.

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Originally Posted by snoro

snip

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......wow spacing if you friend man. i do not really think anyone is being a troll? for the amount of power it draws....it is still very close to 5870 performance, but thats not what people are really talking about in this thread? :rolleyes:

on topic - xfx made my 5870 card....i hear they have a good warranty? too bad Fermi users will not be able to get it....at least for now anyways.

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Originally Posted by gatecrasherlok

I can see some peoples point of XFX not producing the card because of

A) its a gamble on a card that is apparently too hot and could lead to many RMA's ETC

B)The architecture of the graphics card is less than insipring.

These are all conclusive and valid assumptions which we can to an extent believe in. However people are forgetting the fact that XFX is producing mainstream fermi cards. At the end of the day the way i see it is that Nvidia is kinda punishing XFX to a certain extent as I cannnot fathom XFX losing out on a section of the market which could be lucrative to them. They certainly have a fanbase within the Nvidia group and will not like to see their section of customers go to another brand. They are a business at the end of the day and to not offer a card like fermi to their customers is a blow.

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Well we all know that the mainstream cards are the bread and butter for these companies and the lower derivatives of fermi won't be nearly as power hungry or hot for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Mysterfix

Well we all know that the mainstream cards are the bread and butter for these companies and the lower derivatives of fermi won't be nearly as power hungry or hot for that matter.

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i think that they would unless TSMC fixes something or they get rid of cashe. if u look at xfx they are not a top NV maker like evga and they are not a bargain brand like GW/pallit so they are a second or third pick. then NV was rumored to force oems to buy alot of lower end parts to be able to get the fermi so if u look at it, ati is ahead in every category ATM except top single gpu that is not oced so there is almost no1 informed who would buy a lower end NV card other than for phsyX. XFX also has cut down pcbs with low end pwms for the entire ati range other than the 5970 so im sure that they are getting huge margins on them. so to sell the NV parts it would come down to advertising to get back to peoples top picks lists but then they would have to say that one of their lines was bad. so it just makes their strategy way easier to stay with who ever makes them the best margins per card when they have the performance categories.


remember that they have the 58xx and 59xx so they would have to find a way to say that the NV card is better than the 58xx cards but the 59xx is the best, that would do nothing but confuse people, and an oced 58xx will take out a stock 4xx (by gettng the same FPS but way lower wattage) and as an OEM i wouldent sell an overclocked 4xx except for a vary limited liquid cooled one or 10-50mhz upped, but for ati its safe up to 1ghz IMO for a sale as they arnt hot and dont have to much higher power consumption

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

i think that they would unless TSMC fixes something or they get rid of cashe. if u look at xfx they are not a top NV maker like evga and they are not a bargain brand like GW/pallit so they are a second or third pick. then NV was rumored to force oems to buy alot of lower end parts to be able to get the fermi so if u look at it, ati is ahead in every category ATM except top single gpu that is not oced so there is almost no1 informed who would buy a lower end NV card other than for phsyX. XFX also has cut down pcbs with low end pwms for the entire ati range other than the 5970 so im sure that they are getting huge margins on them. so to sell the NV parts it would come down to advertising to get back to peoples top picks lists but then they would have to say that one of their lines was bad. so it just makes their strategy way easier to stay with who ever makes them the best margins per card when they have the performance categories.

Remember that they have the 58xx and 59xx so they would have to find a way to say that the NV card is better than the 58xx cards but the 59xx is the best, that would do nothing but confuse people, and an oced 58xx will take out a stock 4xx (by gettng the same FPS but way lower wattage) and as an OEM i wouldent sell an overclocked 4xx except for a vary limited liquid cooled one or 10-50mhz upped, but for ati its safe up to 1ghz IMO for a sale as they arnt hot and dont have to much higher power consumption

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You are correct but I was only talking about the fourth coming fermi derivatives. There will no doubt be a demand for these cards with the XFX warranty attached. The margins for these cards should be a lot better too, which will likely be incentive enough for XFX to make the offering available.

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Originally Posted by Mysterfix

You are correct but I was only talking about the fourth coming fermi derivatives. There will no doubt be a demand for these cards with the XFX warranty attached. The margins for these cards should be a lot better too, which will likely be incentive enough for XFX to make the offering available.

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yah but when u cut cashe and shaders and rops out (im guessing lots of rops out) it wont be as competative and they are scheduled for q1 next year from what i heard so thats a long time off

Then it will likely be a shrunkin version of fermi and give more to margins which makes even more sense for them to support mainstream fermi's.

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Originally Posted by snoro

oh come on, i am just getting tired of all the crap people says about the fermi. First off fermi is the first nvidia product i will ever have so there is no freaking fanboyism in my post ( i am currently a owner of hd 5770and i love it for what it can do). Then fermi is not a bad product at all. Get over this Nvidia used a completly new arch instead of using their old g80 arch and juts die shrink it and call it a day like Ati have done with the hd5xxx serie. Yes fermi is hot and use alot of power. Now lets go see again the new arch from both side. That mean lets take a look at g80 and for ati if i remember well its rv670. So what i find out when i check out the flagship card of both new arch from both sidem well we find out a Hd 2900 xt and a 8800gtx. Oh noes !!!!! both card were said to be very hot, very power consuming and the didnt gave alot of improvement from the previous gen cards. And its noit just one side that got those problems both had it. Now we have a card that actually DO give a performance boost from last gen cards, beat the Hd5870 especially with with high aa and af by atleast 10% but is hotter than the others and use a bit more power and everyone says that Fermi is pure BULL:banana::banana::banana::banana:. Well do you wanna know something. You are JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOTIC TROLL.

Seriously even in car forum i have never seen such Fanboyism. Heck i am sure you could scare some spectator of the Bathurst 24hr race with your fanboyism.

end of my big rant

Ps: if any mod or admin think i have gone too far plz tell me before you ban me.

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This is you:

http://www.ronworkman.com/avatars/typing.gif

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Originally Posted by kadozer

Makes sense for them. Their double warranty + Furnace 480 = bankruptcy from all the potential RMA's.

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dont these kind of company have some sort of insurance + the fact that they sign some sort of minimal quality of product clause with say nvidia at the start of a deal ????