Nvidia 4th quarter results.

Printable View

02-17-2010, 08:53 PM
tajoh111

Nvidia 4th quarter results.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...re/0588117.htm

"the company recorded net income of $131.1 million, or $0.23 per diluted share, for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2010, compared with a GAAP net loss of $147.7 million, or $0.27 per share, in the same period a year earlier. GAAP net loss for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2010 was $68.0 million, or $0.12 per share, compared with a net loss of $30.0 million, or $0.05 per share, for the fiscal year ended Jan. 25, 2009. "

What appears to be helping out the company is their margins are much higher because by not selling a gtx 28x, they are not selling a expensive to make silicon part for a low price. Their margins at the beginning of the 2009 were just under 30 percent compared to just under 45 percent during this period.

In this economy I am surprised they made 100+ million again.

I am surprised the revenue from AMD is not more. AMD graphic division made 427 million dollars in revenue during the last quarter compared to Nvidia's 982 milllion. It boggles the mind, how does AMD graphic division not make more money, especially with the wii and xbox 360 using their chips.

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases...2010jan21.aspx

Why are people even questioning Nvidia's ability to make money is beyond me. Nvidia is not in dire financial straits as some on this board or charlie suggest.
02-17-2010, 08:57 PM
96redformula

It might catch up to them in the coming quarters would be my guess.....
02-17-2010, 09:09 PM
WRC

AMD couldn't supply enough 5*** series cards in q4 that's most likely why they didn't make enough money on their products
02-17-2010, 09:20 PM
tajoh111

We can't really blame this on rebranding either considering the market share difference between the companies is only 5 percent(but double the revenue). Nvidia is making alot of money outside of the videocard game and this likely through patents, workstations cards, chipsets and possibly other ventures.
02-17-2010, 09:32 PM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajoh111

Why are people even questioning Nvidia's ability to make money is beyond me. Nvidia is not in dire financial straits as some on this board or charlie suggest.

Nvidia lost money these last 12 months...
They certainly did good in the 4th Q though, selling off inventory that you have already written off can do that for you.
02-17-2010, 09:36 PM
qcmadness

NVIDIA's results are no so bold (+8% Q/Q) as Intel and AMD both posted bigger jump in revenue (+28% and +18% Q/Q).

The Fermi's delay seems to hurt NVIDIA badly.
02-17-2010, 09:43 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEC911

Nvidia lost money these last 12 months...
They certainly did good in the 4th Q though, selling off inventory that you have already written off can do that for you.

they only lost money since they had to replace those 8/series mid/low cards and the 4 or 5 generations of know defective chipsets that they sold that they had to pay the fees for this year affter their insurance found out. im kinda amazed they still can sell things i cant think of any1 else that could knowingly sell defective parts, get them in a good chunk (like 30-40%+) of all pre built computers and all macs (except the mac pro) for the last 3 years and still have a good rep with those same customers. it also says something for apple too since they could get away with using NV parts, but thier in person 0 day replacement may make up for that.
02-17-2010, 09:48 PM
saaya

Quote:

What appears to be helping out the company is their margins are much higher because by not selling a gtx 28x, they are not selling a expensive to make silicon part for a low price. Their margins at the beginning of the 2009 were just under 30 percent compared to just under 45 percent during this period.

but they keep selling 260s which cost them almost the same to make but are sold at a MUCH lower price than 285 cards? and they were selling 285 cards for over 400$, and the margins were too low?

this doesnt make much sense... :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajoh111

Nvidia is making alot of money outside of the videocard game and this likely through patents, workstations cards, chipsets and possibly other ventures.

yeah, probably... just think about all those sli licenses for x58 and p55 boards... thats 5$ per board... for every 1 million sli enabled boards that get sold thats 5 million$ for nvidia right there... and asus and gigabyte sell quite some retail boards...

and then think about boards sold with nf200, thats 20$+ per chip, and some boards even use two! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcmadness

NVIDIA's results are no so bold (+8% Q/Q) as Intel and AMD both posted bigger jump in revenue (+28% and +18% Q/Q).

The Fermi's delay seems to hurt NVIDIA badly.

i wouldnt say badly but its definately showing already... and itll only get worse...
02-17-2010, 10:44 PM
tajoh111

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEC911

Nvidia lost money these last 12 months...
They certainly did good in the 4th Q though, selling off inventory that you have already written off can do that for you.

Your probably partially right about this. But their revenue is so much higher than AMD graphic division, its well over double. Alot of money is coming in, more than simply just the resale of g92 chips. To put this into perspective Nvidia the same quarter last year, they made 481 million dollars( compared to 982 million now). Thats like half they did now. g92 stock should be heavily depleted at this point(a year ago they already reduced inventory from 144 day to 62 days) and in addition, g92 rebadges sales should be slowing down now(compared to a year ago, when it was newer technology). NV is making alot of money outside graphics cards recently.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1234300989054.html

Alot of the reason they lost money too was rebuying stock and the bills associated with all the repairs. They would have made money if wasn't for those things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

but they keep selling 260s which cost them almost the same to make but are sold at a MUCH lower price than 285 cards? and they were selling 285 cards for over 400$, and the margins were too low?

this doesnt make much sense... :confused:

yeah, probably... just think about all those sli licenses for x58 and p55 boards... thats 5$ per board... for every 1 million sli enabled boards that get sold thats 5 million$ for nvidia right there... and asus and gigabyte sell quite some retail boards...

and then think about boards sold with nf200, thats 20$+ per chip, and some boards even use two! :D

i wouldnt say badly but its definately showing already... and itll only get worse...

I thought NV was often losing money on gtx 280 and gtx 260. Part of the gtx 260 that continue to occur to this day could simply be left over inventory. NV is doing alot better now than compared to a year ago. Another thing that might be making more money than I initially thought was Ion.

The thing is everyone says its going to get worse but things are improving along with the market.

How many people are guilty of saying NV would show a losing quarter because it had nothing to fight the 58xx? And even before that, when the gtx 28x should up, a couple year ago or even six months ago that nvidia would be be seeing even worse red right now and it would continue until they made something that ousted AMD, but its not in that position yet and they are making money.
02-17-2010, 10:44 PM
annihilat0r

AMD has been in the red for what, 4 years now? Nvidia is still making money, only they didn't make a big jump in revenue as AMD and Intel last quarter. They are still making money and AMD is still not making any money. Fermi could be delayed for another year and Nvidia would be still afloat.
02-18-2010, 12:31 AM
Blacky

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

AMD has been in the red for what, 4 years now? Nvidia is still making money, only they didn't make a big jump in revenue as AMD and Intel last quarter. They are still making money and AMD is still not making any money. Fermi could be delayed for another year and Nvidia would be still afloat.

I guess the renaming strategy of nvidia does works after all...
02-18-2010, 12:39 AM
cal_guy

Well don't forget that AMD Graphics division just contains consumer and workstation GPU while nvidia includes chipset, Tesla products, and consumer products like Tegra. nVidia had revenues of $572 million in the GPU division while the professional division (which includes both Quadro and Tesla) had 157.8 million.
02-18-2010, 12:49 AM
mAJORD

Quote:

Originally Posted by tajoh111

I am surprised the revenue from AMD is not more. AMD graphic division made 427 million dollars in revenue during the last quarter compared to Nvidia's 982 milllion. It boggles the mind, how does AMD graphic division not make more money, especially with the wii and xbox 360 using their chips.

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases...2010jan21.aspx

Well xbox and wii don't actually use their chips so to speak. they designed them under contract AFAIK, so I don't know if they continue to recieve any money from sales of these units.
02-18-2010, 12:57 AM
Behemot

Well NVIDIA still has strong position in Pro market, but FireGL's make great pressure. I think the new models based on RV870 will make great impact and gain AMD share in Pro segement much faster. Not only FireGL's are faster, but also cheaper. What's more. I expect new line any moment, but new Fermi based Quadro's are probably still some quarter away...
02-18-2010, 01:45 AM
hurleybird

Charlie said earlier that Nvidia was dropping their R&D expenditures. Not sure whether to trust Charlie, but if Nvidia is dropping R&D spending to stay in the black it'll probably come back to bite them later.
02-18-2010, 02:54 AM
tajoh111

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleybird

Charlie said earlier that Nvidia was dropping their R&D expenditures. Not sure whether to trust Charlie, but if Nvidia is dropping R&D spending to stay in the black it'll probably come back to bite them later.

The charlie article has been corrected heavily. From the 50 percent drop to a relatively small 10 percent drop and it is being rounded heavily up.

I am guessing alot of R and D savings were had from abandoning g212 or the highend 10.1 chip.
02-18-2010, 03:00 AM
zalbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemot

Well NVIDIA still has strong position in Pro market

This.
That's where their income is coming from.
02-18-2010, 04:54 AM
Teemax

Don't overlook NVIDIA's mobile share.

I'm in a market for a new notebook since my XPS 1530m got burned from a bad GPU. NVIDIA dominates the performance notebook scene; while ATI's presence is pretty darn weak.

I suspect that will change with the HD 5xxx mobile, but the mobile sector will stay mostly green for at least a few more months.
02-18-2010, 04:58 AM
Helloworld_98

Nvidia gets there money from a 200%+ markup on workstation cards over gaming cards.

AMD doesn't get so much money because most of the low end discrete cards in ready-builds are nvidia and this is where most of the market buys into.
02-18-2010, 05:07 AM
eric66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemax

Don't overlook NVIDIA's mobile share.

I'm in a market for a new notebook since my XPS 1530m got burned from a bad GPU. NVIDIA dominates the performance notebook scene; while ATI's presence is pretty darn weak.

I suspect that will change with the HD 5xxx mobile, but the mobile sector will stay mostly green for at least a few more months.

ati announced that they have 55 percent share in discrete mobile part so your claim fails http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-clai...le-GPU-market/ and to say the truth every single notebook that i ve seen has 4000 series in it since 4xxx launch
02-18-2010, 05:21 AM
cowie

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEC911

Nvidia lost money these last 12 months...
They certainly did good in the 4th Q though, selling off inventory that you have already written off can do that for you.

yawn you again? :p: nvidia lost money this past 4q's oh really? :confused:
didnt you say a few months ago(like most in this thread)that they would be broke by now.
they are not making the cash with desktop parts,they could even not have a high end part and make more then ati as shown in past quarter.
plus it only gets better for them in those areas...not worse.

remember competition eats profits for big volume companys
02-18-2010, 05:29 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurleybird

Charlie said earlier that Nvidia was dropping their R&D expenditures. Not sure whether to trust Charlie, but if Nvidia is dropping R&D spending to stay in the black it'll probably come back to bite them later.

Well charlie is full of fud, as always.

NV spend more on R&D then they did 2008:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....142&highlight=

909 M$ instead of 856 M$

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

Nvidia gets there money from a 200%+ markup on workstation cards over gaming cards.

AMD doesn't get so much money because most of the low end discrete cards in ready-builds are nvidia and this is where most of the market buys into.

might be true, but professional (aka workstations) is only ~30% of NV revenue.
02-18-2010, 05:33 AM
Mk

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96redformula7

It might catch up to them in the coming quarters would be my guess.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRC

AMD couldn't supply enough 5*** series cards in q4 that's most likely why they didn't make enough money on their products

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEC911

Nvidia lost money these last 12 months...
They certainly did good in the 4th Q though, selling off inventory that you have already written off can do that for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcmadness

NVIDIA's results are no so bold (+8% Q/Q) as Intel and AMD both posted bigger jump in revenue (+28% and +18% Q/Q).

The Fermi's delay seems to hurt NVIDIA badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

AMD has been in the red for what, 4 years now? Nvidia is still making money, only they didn't make a big jump in revenue as AMD and Intel last quarter. They are still making money and AMD is still not making any money. Fermi could be delayed for another year and Nvidia would be still afloat.

why dos every one wish they lose money? :shrug: :confused:
regardless how you emotionally feel about the them they make good product's they deserve to make money....
GT200 was good for its time..
G92 still doing good specially in mobile GTX285m GTX260m are really good mobile GPU's.
Tegra and Tegra 2 are really good phone/ mobile chips
there driver support is amazing...and they have all that software edge(CUDA/phyixs/adobe support/etc...).
plus they invest in many games to make them work with there driver perfectly....
just because they don't have top dog Card right now don't make them a failure company imo
and Fermi looks promising at least from share holders point of view i know it late but if it comes in march its not too late imo..
02-18-2010, 06:16 AM
Teemax

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

ati announced that they have 55 percent share in discrete mobile part so your claim fails http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-clai...le-GPU-market/ and to say the truth every single notebook that i ve seen has 4000 series in it since 4xxx launch

Claims.

Show me some good ULV laptops in Europe that has a newer Radeon mobile?

AlienWare 11x would be an ideal machine for me if it wasn't for the GeForce 330M.
02-18-2010, 06:18 AM
Teemax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mk

why dos every one wish they lose money? :shrug: :confused:

I don't think people really "wish" NVIDIA to bleed money. It's more like "puzzled".

I mean, GT200b can't be that profitable as a product. G92b has been around for SO long. Fermi is massively delayed. Yet, they are still kicking. Pretty amazing actually.
02-18-2010, 06:27 AM
Jamesrt2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

Well charlie is full of fud, as always.

NV spend more on R&D then they did 2008:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....142&highlight=

909 M$ instead of 856 M$

might be true, but professional (aka workstations) is only ~30% of NV revenue.

i'ts true they droped it like 8% or something.. starting from now, since now its been going up and up in a pretty straight line if you where looking at a graph of it, now there is a dip in it thats all.. think... that it drops to around 2007's R&D expenditure.. hardly anything to be alarmed by..

I just put it down that they had more and more working on fermi and now they finalized it they can "relax" a tad more and concentrate on the next fermi which will obviously be a shrink and some tinkering which isn't going to cost anything near making/producing a WHOLE new arch from scratch :D

thing with Charlie is he normally is telling the truth TO AN EXTENT :/ you just have to kinda guess how much of it is over exagurated etc..
02-18-2010, 07:29 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric66

ati announced that they have 55 percent share in discrete mobile part so your claim fails http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-clai...le-GPU-market/ and to say the truth every single notebook that i ve seen has 4000 series in it since 4xxx launch

he said perf, and thats true...
55% market share =! 55% revenue and even less 55% net profits ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemot

Well NVIDIA still has strong position in Pro market, but FireGL's make great pressure. I think the new models based on RV870 will make great impact and gain AMD share in Pro segement much faster. Not only FireGL's are faster, but also cheaper. What's more. I expect new line any moment, but new Fermi based Quadro's are probably still some quarter away...

nvidia has much better software for their pro cards though... i think thats something that will keep them a good pro market share even if they are notably worse in perf and price... they are kinda the IBM of pro graphics...
02-18-2010, 07:57 AM
Marios

Quote:

why dos every one wish they lose money?

Did you realy expect AMD and Intel hard core funs to wish Nvidia good luck?
02-19-2010, 01:43 PM
v_rr

Nvidia shares dip 9% on inventory buildup
http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjo...html?ana=yfcpc

So they increase inventory by almost 20% from the highest profit quarter of the year (Q4) to the lowest (Q1).
So they shipped the cards but the cards weren't sold to costumers because people don't want them but nvidia ship them anyway. They are building a bubble.

On the other side ATI didn't have enought cards to supply so much demand so let's see how is going to be next 2 quarters.
02-20-2010, 01:18 AM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowie

yawn you again? :p: nvidia lost money this past 4q's oh really? :confused:
didnt you say a few months ago(like most in this thread)that they would be broke by now.
they are not making the cash with desktop parts,they could even not have a high end part and make more then ati as shown in past quarter.
plus it only gets better for them in those areas...not worse.

remember competition eats profits for big volume companys

Ummm... again? Never left...
Yes, Nvidia lost money the last 4Q, look at the year to date on the link, it is in parenthesis meaning it is a loss. They netted an almost $68m net loss over the last 12 months and had an operating loss of almost $100m. Thanks for being able to read their financial filings.
I don't ever recall stating that Nvidia would go broke. I might have been stating that some of Nvidia's cards have a high BOM compared to other products on the market, ie gaming market.