Car won't start help please!

2003 VW GTI So my car wont turn,
If I'm in the car all the lights are on just fine if I turn the key the the one place all my lights and everything works. But when I got to start it I just get the wrun wrun wrun with the dash lights almost dieing
the guy at VW said to jump start it? But why would the battery die randomly......... It's not even parked outside. Does this mean the battery is dead or wtf? Just jump start it will get my car started but what sort of problem fix is that.

Also where is a good ground in the engine area?

Yes batteries can die randomly. Batteries can also have a residual charge strong enough to turn on the headlights but not start the car. Batteries can also die out of nowhere in cold weather regardless if they are inside or not unless of course it is a heated garage. Jumping the car will allow the generator/altenator to recharge the battery. But you are right there may still be other problems. Why are you looking for a ground exactly? At rate any bolt screwed into the frame of the car will so.

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Originally Posted by Elloquin

Yes batteries can die randomly. Batteries can also have a residual charge strong enough to turn on the headlights but not start the car. Batteries can also die out of nowhere in cold weather regardless if they are inside or not unless of course it is a heated garage. Jumping the car will allow the generator/altenator to recharge the battery. But you are right there may still be other problems. Why are you looking for a ground exactly? At rate any bolt screwed into the frame of the car will so.

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Yep he is right. Just jump your car and let it run for a bit and then see if your battery is charged. If it keeps dying well go buy a new one.

shutoff all the lights, everything that uses power and try to start it. you might have forgotten a light on...

I'm looking for a ground for when I jumpstart the car. Anyone know a good one inside a GTI. Well if my bud can't make it over I'm going to go buy a new battery for it. Autozone has retarded prices for replacement batteries for this car like $179. Does walmart have good deals or decent batteries? How about sears?

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Originally Posted by Glow9

I'm looking for a ground for when I jumpstart the car. Anyone know a good one inside a GTI. Well if my bud can't make it over I'm going to go buy a new battery for it. Autozone has retarded prices for replacement batteries for this car like $179. Does walmart have good deals or decent batteries? How about sears?

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Any metal on the frame of the car is a ground so just put it soomewhere. No where special

Any batteries you guys recommend?

Sears, and Interstate both list the wrong battery for my car when I look it up. I need a group 48 battery. Batteries Plus has some of these for 89.99 are they any good? http://www.batteriesplus.com/pc-3649...5-SLI48H6.aspx Rayovac car batteries?

Try Pepboys or AutoZone.

Use an ear on the cylinder head for a ground. There is one right on the front of the head.

Do you know for sure you need a battery? I may have missed it, but did you ever jumpstart the car?

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Originally Posted by tool_462

Do you know for sure you need a battery? I may have missed it, but did you ever jumpstart the car?

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Yeah that is what I would do first. jump start the car and see how that goes.


you are trying to move ahead to fast. Just find out what the problem is for sure and then go from there

You need a voltmeter if you have or can borrow one...even a real cheap one will do. the alternate to this is a battery charger

with a voltmeter and the engine running you should expect to see 13.5 - 14.5 volts ballpark this proves your charging system voltage good and suggests the battery is dying (although you could have a loose or damaged lead)

charging the battery on a charger ...if afterwards it starts and continues to do so for some time before it fails again I would be thinking you problem is the charging system

If you charge the battery today...leave it until tomorrow or longer and it will not start the car then think new battery

blah this is easier to do than write about...pm me if you do any of the above and need more help

Here in UK if I take my car to a battery seller and ask them to do a quick check on the charging system it is usually free (they are hoping for your business)

Going to take it over to walmart tomorrow, they can tell me if its dead or not and if not can charge it for $2.50 then I'll go from there.

I'll try and post that pic you asked for (PM) when I get home but any connection to metal on the engine will be a good ground. I only said the ear on the head because it's what I always used and usually convenient. The only reason you're not supposed to connect the ground to the battery is to prevent sparks from igniting fumes from the battery and causing it to blow up. It make quite a mess when that happens. BTW, always hook up the ground cable last.

If you can, upgrade the battery to a better cold crank. That's what I did about 7 years ago for a truck and the battery still works like new. Well it did die once, but that's because I left my lights on. lol. I charged it up though and it works great again.

One thing that hasn't been pointed out.
If you get the car started up and running, pull the power from the battery. If the alt is bad, the engine will die.
Granted that only really works of the alt is pretty much dead, not in the process of...

exactly imfu sounds like an alternator problem to me not a battery so much. if the alternator is dead it will run ff battery til the battery dies. if you get it jump started and the alternator is dead you will not make it far. alternators usually are pretty cheap like $80 bucks after giving them your old one but can get super espensive like $200-300 after exchanging your old one. dont buy a bettery unless you know for sure otherwise you are stuck buying a battery and alternator= more $$ my advice= jump start it, let it sit there and run with all the lights/stereo/everything on if it dies just sitting there its the alternator if not its the battery. I have been working on cars over 8 years now and it just sounds like an alternator to me.

It was never mentioned, but is this the battery that came with the car? If it's an 03' that is plenty of time for the battery to have gone bad. You'll be lucky if a batter lasts throughout it's warranty period.

As for replacing the battery with a more powerful one. That is sometimes difficult with a car like yours. Since it uses a random group number, that is probably only used by VW's, there aren't really that many options. Another thing to note, almost all retail chains sell the same batters, just with a different sticker. Wal-mart, auto-zone, o-reilly's, costco, could all have batteries that are made by johnson control. I'd say that the majority of these places carry batteries made by johnson control and then some carry batteries made by exide.

If the car has a manual transmission, you can always try and "pop" the clutch to get it started. You just need to get the car moving first.

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Originally Posted by IFMU

One thing that hasn't been pointed out.
If you get the car started up and running, pull the power from the battery. If the alt is bad, the engine will die.
Granted that only really works of the alt is pretty much dead, not in the process of...

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And possibly take out control modules in the process. Not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by overclocking101

exactly imfu sounds like an alternator problem to me not a battery so much. if the alternator is dead it will run ff battery til the battery dies. if you get it jump started and the alternator is dead you will not make it far. alternators usually are pretty cheap like $80 bucks after giving them your old one but can get super espensive like $200-300 after exchanging your old one. dont buy a bettery unless you know for sure otherwise you are stuck buying a battery and alternator= more $$ my advice= jump start it, let it sit there and run with all the lights/stereo/everything on if it dies just sitting there its the alternator if not its the battery. I have been working on cars over 8 years now and it just sounds like an alternator to me.

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I wouldn't say the alternator is bad yet. It might be bad but I wouldn't bet on it. The first thing to check is the battery and go from there. Alternators in VW's and Audi's don't go out all that often. BTW, I was a VW/Audi tech for 25 years before I jumped to the other side of the parts counter about 3 years ago.

As for the picture look for something like this.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/PICT1921.jpg
I couldn't find a good picture on the web so this is from my wifes 03 Passat.

EDIT: To add what mikecdm said VW and Audi factory batteries are drop shipped from Interstate Batteries.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

And possibly take out control modules in the process. Not a good idea.

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Not sure how exactly that would happen just by pulling a cable off.
But, it seems you have the experience, so I'd take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

I wouldn't say the alternator is bad yet. It might be bad but I wouldn't bet on it. The first thing to check is the battery and go from there.

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That is very true, my reply was a follow up beyond that.

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Originally Posted by IFMU

Not sure how exactly that would happen just by pulling a cable off.
But, it seems you have the experience, so I'd take your word for it.

That is very true, my reply was a follow up beyond that.

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It could cause a voltage spike that could damage the modules. It doesn't happen all the time but it could. Think of it like unplugging components in a running computer. We've all done it and gotten away with it but it's always a risk.

Quick and easy way to see if your alternator is dead is to jump the car and once its started, turn on all the lights, fans, stereo, hit the break pedal...etc. and watch the batery/volt meter on the dash. If your alt is dead your battery meter in the dash will show a definate drop in voltage as the load is applied to the battery.

For that matter if the alternator is completely dead the car won't run for long after the jumper cables are removed.

So is this acid or what is this blue crap? and why are there 2 cables attached to the battery on one side?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...6/IMG_0945.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...6/IMG_0948.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...6/IMG_0944.jpg

LOL. I don't think that's acid but more of a build up of corrosion that can sometimes form when the connection is loose. As for the cables your guess is as good as mine. It may have something to do with your alarm system if you have one since they are usually fed off of the battery.

Take a wire brush and carefully clean it all up, do not get it on any other parts or your hands either. Unscrew the terminals, take some fine sandpaper and try to get a nice shinny surface, same thing with the connector on the battery. After you put everything back together, take some dielectric grease and put it on the terminal to reduce corrosion in the future. Corrosion increases resistance, not enough amps going through = slow or no start at all.

Okay so, could I essentially just yank out the battery skip the sandpaper and what have you and put in a new battery?

I really rather not spend time sanding a battery and touching that crap, But how should I properly clean those cables? Can I throw that stuff in the trash even?

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Originally Posted by Glow9

Okay so, could I essentially just yank out the battery skip the sandpaper and what have you and put in a new battery?

I really rather not spend time sanding a battery and touching that crap, But how should I properly clean those cables? Can I throw that stuff in the trash even?

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It takes 15 minutes max to do all that, and you probably don't need a new battery because it's the corrosion that's not letting the car to start. You don't need to sand it very nicely like a computer heatsink, just enough for a decent connection between the battery and the terminal wires. Put on some gloves and use something like a paper towel, you can soak it in a little bit of water too for easier cleanup. For disposal, take the paper towels you used and throw them into a bucket, throw some baking soda on them and put water in it. Baking soda neutralizes acid, so you can dispose of the water and the paper towels however you want afterwards.

Cleaning cables is the same thing, use water or water with baking soda (much better). Then take something round, and wrap around sand paper, then stick it in the terminal and make it a little shinny.

Thanks :)

They also sell spray on battery terminal cleaner that works very well. When you're done I recommend getting corrosion prevention pads that go under the terminals. They're cheap and effective.

EDIT: BTW that looks like it may be the orriginal battery. It is definately a factory battery. If you lift the lid so I can see the part number I can tell.

Well that was a bastard even with my Dad helping. Picked up some battery cleaner then read how toxic it was so I borrowed my neighbours broom cleaned the top off looks like brand new. Took it to 2 places they both said it was at 10volts should be 12. What could possibly be sucking the battery life down?
I mean he said 11volts is kinda the limit and since it was at 10 it was waaay down. So I dont get how one day it could be fine the next drained so low? Anyone have any ideas?
The guy at batteries plus is now charging the battery to find out if it is actually okay and something in my car could have been sucking it dry.

*punt*
If I clean the cables off should I really dunk them in water + baking soda? Will this foam up or are you guys f'ing with me about this?

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Originally Posted by Glow9

*punt*
If I clean the cables off should I really dunk them in water + baking soda? Will this foam up or are you guys f'ing with me about this?

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Didn't you ever mix vinegar and baking soda? Same thing.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

Didn't you ever mix vinegar and baking soda? Same thing.

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I've had a long day... So should I or shouldn't I do this? Call me stupid if need be I just want clean cables. and this to be done right. Otherwise I'm going to just scrub them with a toothbrush.

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Originally Posted by Glow9

I've had a long day... So should I or shouldn't I do this? Call me stupid if need be I just want clean cables. and this to be done right. Otherwise I'm going to just scrub them with a toothbrush.

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It's more work, but there will be a slower corrosion buildup in the future. Yes it will foam up, as HoJo said, same thing as mixing vinegar with baking soda.

For how long did you crank your car? Maybe you just discharged the battery after very long cracking, that's why the low voltage.

That is a good point too. Really is, so I cleaned it up I used leather gloves which resulted in me dropping the toothbrush and water catch through my engine bay area whatevr, I was using for the cable since they are soo damn short it makes them hard to pull up and clean. I couldn't get all the blue :banana::banana::banana::banana: off of them however I got a bunch as the puddle of crap under my car would indicate So ran some water through to get any blue bits that fell in my car out and dried up the battery area.

Considering there is still some blue gunk on the battery wire connectors I'll be getting some of that grease you guys are talking about that should do the trick in making a better connection I'd bet. I still think the funniest thing was the broom cleaning the battery better than some that were done on youtube. Go figure, this really was a pain in the ass since this batter didn't come with a handle. If I get a new one bet your butt it will.

So after this gongshow I'm just waiting to hear back from batteries plus. I really have no idea what could have drained my battery. When I go in for my 40k checkup for my car do you guys think if they run the diagnostic thing it would show if something could be draining it?

If you're close to your 40k just bring it in and have them check the system while you're there. You're assuming something is draining your battery. It may just be at the end of it's life. Your best bet is to just have it checked out.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

If you're close to your 40k just bring it in and have them check the system while you're there. You're assuming something is draining your battery. It may just be at the end of it's life. Your best bet is to just have it checked out.

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Oh the battery itself is at batteries plus getting checked out seeif if they can charge it or not. It was waaay past where it should be that why they were so curious if someone was left on draining it. I'll have the VW guys check out the car, if I need a new battery no big deal. I rather get a new one with a handle than this horrible POS anyways haha.

Okay so car started, had to return a new battery. People at VW said weren't sure about the group of battery because all of theirs come from the factory... Uh huh.. Well anyways long story short group 47 work group 48 does not fit! despite what some people say online and on Batteries Plus website. It's about an .5-1inch to big. So Group 47 for the win. Going to drive over to batteries plus tomorrow to see if something in my cars sucking juice out of it when its not on.

I can't add much to the discussion but here's my recent experience.

A few weeks ago I think I forgot to turn off the ceiling light in my car. I left it running for a few days (I don't drive often), and I think it completely drained the battery. The morning that I found out that the battery died, I really had to go somewhere. Called up my buddies and all - no help from them at all, but one suggested I call the school police. (I'm a student, live near a university) I gave them a call, and a cop came by within 10 minutes and gave me a jump. :up:

I wonder if normal 911 would do this?

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Originally Posted by krogen

I can't add much to the discussion but here's my recent experience.

A few weeks ago I think I forgot to turn off the ceiling light in my car. I left it running for a few days (I don't drive often), and I think it completely drained the battery. The morning that I found out that the battery died, I really had to go somewhere. Called up my buddies and all - no help from them at all, but one suggested I call the school police. (I'm a student, live near a university) I gave them a call, and a cop came by within 10 minutes and gave me a jump. :up:

I wonder if normal 911 would do this?

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Please tell me you're kidding about calling 911.

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Originally Posted by krogen

I can't add much to the discussion but here's my recent experience.

A few weeks ago I think I forgot to turn off the ceiling light in my car. I left it running for a few days (I don't drive often), and I think it completely drained the battery. The morning that I found out that the battery died, I really had to go somewhere. Called up my buddies and all - no help from them at all, but one suggested I call the school police. (I'm a student, live near a university) I gave them a call, and a cop came by within 10 minutes and gave me a jump. :up:

I wonder if normal 911 would do this?

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Dont call 911 call your non emergency line, but they will do it just like if you lock your keys in your car.

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Originally Posted by Glow9

That is a good point too. Really is, so I cleaned it up I used leather gloves which resulted in me dropping the toothbrush and water catch through my engine bay area whatevr, I was using for the cable since they are soo damn short it makes them hard to pull up and clean. I couldn't get all the blue :banana::banana::banana::banana: off of them however I got a bunch as the puddle of crap under my car would indicate So ran some water through to get any blue bits that fell in my car out and dried up the battery area.

Considering there is still some blue gunk on the battery wire connectors I'll be getting some of that grease you guys are talking about that should do the trick in making a better connection I'd bet. I still think the funniest thing was the broom cleaning the battery better than some that were done on youtube. Go figure, this really was a pain in the ass since this batter didn't come with a handle. If I get a new one bet your butt it will.

So after this gongshow I'm just waiting to hear back from batteries plus. I really have no idea what could have drained my battery. When I go in for my 40k checkup for my car do you guys think if they run the diagnostic thing it would show if something could be draining it?

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since there is still "blue junk" on the battery have you done the sandpaper? That is the first thing I do. Then get the grease tighten the bolts down to where the cables wont move and your good.
Also never wore any gloves the few times I have had to clean a battery, but I am sure that made it a little more of a hassle than normal.

edit.........

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Originally Posted by HuffPCair

since there is still "blue junk" on the battery have you done the sandpaper? That is the first thing I do. Then get the grease tighten the bolts down to where the cables wont move and your good.
Also never wore any gloves the few times I have had to clean a battery, but I am sure that made it a little more of a hassle than normal.

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Battery is gone.
My Dad went to batteries plus to check on the battery today first since he lives near the batteries plus I live a city over he watched the guy do his thing and that battery wouldn't hold a charge. So I have a new one, the car starts up just fine. Still some blue stuff even after I scrubbed them with toothbrush and baking soda and water. But we sprayed them down and the terminals with some toxic crap for the battery I forget the stuff, I would have prefered the dielectric grease but my Dad picked the spray stuff up at batteries plus when he was there. I dunno sprays out red. Either way least my car is running again.
Hopefully all is well tomorrow when I go get it checked at batteries plus just to see nothing random is draining it. Really Really hoping it was just a dieing battery.

I dunno what I should do with this spray crap, it's clearly toxic and I dont want to keep it in my tool box. Any safe places I can toss toxic crap like this? Seriously I talk about the grease for 2 days and he gets the spray. This is after the first day when he didn't want to use terminal cleaner spray (which I have to return now) because it was toxic and has cancer warnings on it. So now I have 2 bottles of essentially the same crap.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

Please tell me you're kidding about calling 911.

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I didn't call 911, I called the school police. (local number)

What's your big hangup on chemicals?
The MSDS for red battery terminal spray shows it's wax, oil and solvents. Take out the wax & oil and it's a lot like the gas you pump into the car all the time. Don't get freaked out about some California warnings that indicate that someone died within 10 years of contacting the contents of the package. It's only a carcinogen in California, not according to National Toxicology Program, IARC Monographs nor OSHA.
MSDS: http://dekabattery.us/assets/base/g.pdf

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Originally Posted by krogen

I wonder if normal 911 would do this?

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Originally Posted by krogen

I didn't call 911, I called the school police. (local number)

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I was referring to the last sentence of your post. It sounds as if you're suggesting 911 may help.

Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly) does the job as a Dielectric grease just as well.
You can pick it up at any Grocery store, CVS.

Make sure you get the unscented kind.
I got the Generic CVS brand.

The blue gunk looks like copper sulfate. Your battery was probably venting some sulfuric acid into the terminal area, reacting with the copper in the cable and causing that corrosion. I wouldn't be surprised if your positive battery cable fails shortly.

Anyways, as far as lead-acid car batteries go, 12.6 volts is fully charged, and anything less then about 12-12.1 is not going to start your car

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Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head

The blue gunk looks like copper sulfate. Your battery was probably venting some sulfuric acid into the terminal area, reacting with the copper in the cable and causing that corrosion. I wouldn't be surprised if your positive battery cable fails shortly.

Anyways, as far as lead-acid car batteries go, 12.6 volts is fully charged, and anything less then about 12-12.1 is not going to start your car

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Well I believe this was the original battery I'm the 2nd owner and when I bought it had around 20k miles on it 2 years ago. That red cable where the blue is was definitely missing some of the red cable. melted or whatever I guess. However, the cable itself the copper I guess look completely fine none of the copper fibers or strands whatever were sticking out so we taped it up.

2 years for a battery isn't that much

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Originally Posted by NoRogeR

2 years for a battery isn't that much

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No, but 7 is.

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Originally Posted by HoJo

No, but 7 is.

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:bravo:

my mistake...

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Originally Posted by Glow9

Well I believe this was the original battery I'm the 2nd owner and when I bought it had around 20k miles on it 2 years ago. That red cable where the blue is was definitely missing some of the red cable. melted or whatever I guess. However, the cable itself the copper I guess look completely fine none of the copper fibers or strands whatever were sticking out so we taped it up.

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It wouldn't be a bad idea to replace that cable. It looks like it just goes from the battery post to the power distribution center. One way to tell if it is bad is turn your headlights on and use a dvom. Put the positive lead on the positive battery post then put the negative on the other end of that cable. If you even have one volt it's bad.