EK-5970 vs stock cooler tests

alright finally I got today the EK-5970 nickel water block
so I decide to dedicate some time to show guy's what is the performance gain
compare to stock cooler

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...970/ek5970.jpg
here it is look gorgeous, now put this sucker in

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...0/bare5970.jpg
all thermal pads on place ,lets put some diamond grease and install it

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Kinstalled.jpg
done, not too hard .exempt for the plastic spacers you to stick them to the block before stick the block
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/IMG_0298.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/IMG_0300.jpg

alright is ready ,look awesome took now lets tested to the limit
first on vista 64 ,

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...whstockv64.jpg
stock clocks and vots okay now OC al the way

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...70/whocv64.jpg
better but no what I was expecting ,lets try win 7 64

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...stock764-1.png

uff much better , now crank all the way

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...714/chicha.png

damn is smoking
**update**
well it been a few days and no problem ,from a gtx295 water cooled and OC to this is a havens to earth different
the ability to run anything at max is priceless ,thanks to klyser I reached higher oc in i7 ,above in the new score for warhead and under the vantage 3dmark06 score for the guys who ask for it, even when some say there are rigged
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Capture3dm.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Capture-9.png

personalty I tough that EK blocks were for show up
but I was wrong the perfomace in temps is solid
from 64c idle 86c load OC to 26c IDLE 45c oc
beside the fps increase the game run smother no slow downs or dose
out of place images that look like pic cut in two misaligned
no mater what OC I try it won't crash no more
before I have to reboot 100+ times doing OC tests
it somebody want me to try something else let me know

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Kinstalled.jpg

:slobber:

(Win7 64-bit rocks!)

Don't think you have flashed your cards bioses correctly.

GPU Clock is showing 735 and default clock is showing 725, similarly memory is showing 1000 and 1010.....so it looks like you have one core flashed to the oc bios and the other core hasn't been flashed and is at the stock values. Master and slave cores both need to show the same values.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowdog

Don't think you have flashed your cards bioses correctly.

GPU Clock is showing 735 and default clock is showing 725, similarly memory is showing 1000 and 1010.....so it looks like you have one core flashed to the oc bios and the other core hasn't been flashed and is at the stock values. Master and slave cores both need to show the same values.

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you got point there but I haven't do it
maybe I need to flash the bios with the new ones
but not sure how do it safety without bricking my card :up:

Block Look Shiny
Some Benching Test 3D Specially 06 :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ViViD

Block Look Shiny
Some Benching Test 3D Specially 06 :)

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no can't do ,cuz you in Iran and I in Iraq ,WE ENEMYS LOL WTF:rofl:

dont fun the fail futuremark tests please, stick to real world games =D (sorry to be an ass)


p.s whats the rest of your cooling loop?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004

dont fun the fail futuremark tests please, stick to real world games =D (sorry to be an ass)


p.s whats the rest of your cooling loop?

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I not shure what you mean Ichigo,
dont fun the fail ,wtf ?
now the loop is not the best set up right now
cuz is a lanbox is damn tight fit , 1/4 i.d. hoses koolance C-145 cpu,full mobo and one single 240 thermaltake motorsport radiator
koolance reservoir pump /combo bk-980 mod with a switch 350 moded to pump more:up:

I,m building a new case ,with new radiator ,bigger hoses
but is hard to believe the such overloaded loop do so good still :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ViViD

Block Look Shiny
Some Benching Test 3D Specially 06 :)

---

there's you go
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Capture3dm.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Capture-9.png
for vantage I know that awesome score
for 3dmark06 no sure I just trying it now
I getting loots of messages sayings I'm cheating
is really possible with this kind of reliable software ?

You're not cheating :)
I'm getting similar scores with my PC 5970/DD wb running at 990/1200/1.25v, i7 at 4.4ghz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nusihb

You're not cheating :)
I'm getting similar scores with my PC 5970/DD wb running at 990/1200/1.25v, i7 at 4.4ghz.

---

thanks ,now I know for sure is no a fluke
so now we running at same pace
damn at this point do you fell the need to add another one?
I'm sure not,damn there no game this can't handle in this set up
hope something come soon that make all this hard work worthy :up:

Nope one is enough, and I'm keeping mine at 800/1200 for 'everyday use'... just so I don't have to rise the voltage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Farken

no can't do ,cuz you in Iran and I in Iraq ,WE ENEMYS LOL WTF:rofl:

---

:rofl::rofl: OK Tanx For Sharing m8

P.s We Are Not Enemy Anymore
:up::up:

What are max load vrm temperatures with the EK block?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razrback16

What are max load vrm temperatures with the EK block?

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Can't check now ,case mod/upgrade in process ,I post a pic tomorow:up:
But pretty low, I was on a uncompleted cooling system and still with cpu and gpu at full load ,no overheat

I love the temp drop!
Feeling that alone makes it worth it!

ahh I was worryed that 27k on my rig in 06 was bad :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Farken

Can't check now ,case mod/upgrade in process ,I post a pic tomorow:up:
But pretty low, I was on a uncompleted cooling system and still with cpu and gpu at full load ,no overheat

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Yes i would also like to know what your VRM temps are.
I have the same block installed and i think GPUz is reporting them too low.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenixdancer

ahh I was worryed that on my rig in 06 was bad :/

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ok what you got to get 27k

Quote:

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Originally Posted by affiliate13

Yes i would also like to know what your VRM temps are.
I have the same block installed and i think GPUz is reporting them too low.

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http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...aptureaax8.png
this what I got after crysis bench run before cooling upgrade
can't today ,too much crap going on here,
don't let me finish my rig and test :(

That doesn't look like it was under load. If you look at the graphs, you'll see at the very right a little bump in temps coming in. If anything, it should show a drop in temps, as temps go from very high under load, to cooling down after the bench stops.

Also, you need to toggle each item in GPU-Z to show max.

So many people who post pics of GPU-Z don't seem to do it correctly, or do it in a misleading manor.

I think people are wanting to see your gpu load at 100% (instead of 0%) & your max values like Diverge suggested. Let it heat up for about 5-10 minutes before you take screen.

Ooo shiny nice performance also for the 5970 such a cooler is always recommended

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diverge

That doesn't look like it was under load. If you look at the graphs, you'll see at the very right a little bump in temps coming in. If anything, it should show a drop in temps, as temps go from very high under load, to cooling down after the bench stops.

Also, you need to toggle each item in GPU-Z to show max.

So many people who post pics of GPU-Z don't seem to do it correctly, or do it in a misleading manor.

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ok dude I got up and running again ,now tell me exactly what you want me to do to get the reading right :up:

alright I run furmark xtreme burning test for 10min set gpu-z to high reading
here the pic,the vddc are to hot I guess they are not making good contact with cooler ,which one in the pbc are dose ?
the gpu's temp drop 10c with the new cooling ,how they can be such a huge temp differences ,40c gpu vddc 126c damn:shrug:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/gputemps.png

Yeah your going to have to put some thicker pads on them man.

Here my 5970 on air
GPU 1 and 2 5970
GPU 3 285GTX

Max temp on core with extreme burning mode was 80.5 C
Max temp on Vram was 99C extreme burning mode can do upto 120 before it effects anything.


Heres the screen shots.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/474/myth2.jpg


link to higher quality screen
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/474/myth2.th.jpg

I take the water block out and re do the pad and grease
it help a lot ,beside only in xtreme burning mode reach that temps .never in crysis max out ,but is good to know the limit before s**thappen:up:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...is714/load.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...s714/load2.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...ris714/3dm.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...714/newrec.png
now I can reach a new level thank to better cpu and gpu cooling
the part or the card that get really hot is the back plate ,but only during the furmark test;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gerardfraser

Yeah your going to have to put some thicker pads on them man.

Here my 5970 on air
GPU 1 and 2 5970
GPU 3 285GTX

Max temp on core with extreme burning mode was 80.5 C
Max temp on Vram was 99C extreme burning mode can do upto 120 before it effects anything.


Heres the screen shots.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/474/myth2.jpg


link to higher quality screen
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/474/myth2.th.jpg

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that all can do for the block side ,the one that is hot is the back side
what I gona do put a another cooler behind?
no way I keep it like that, for games they stay at 36c max that fine in my list

Farken, nice work on that Crysis benchmark. 89 FPS WOAH! Is that 1 5970, or two? heheh.

Also, now that you have reseated the waterblock and doubled up on the padding & paste, whats the new VRM maximum temps after gaming for a few minutes in Crysis? I don't see it in your screenshot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaredpace

Farken, nice work on that Crysis benchmark. 89 FPS WOAH! Is that 1 5970, or two? heheh.

Also, now that you have reseated the waterblock and doubled up on the padding & paste, whats the new VRM maximum temps after gaming for a few minutes in Crysis? I don't see it in your screenshot.

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the max temps are in 2nd pic on above post just zoom with the browser
is only one but my set up beat some user scores that got tri-fire
they are really pissing me of by saying that is bull and cheated when I use the same tool
now at last I can play crysis and warhead all the way without slowdowns
at everything max ,it like playing a new version ,everything behave so different
thanks for the comment:up:

Well if you notice, in that gpu-z sensor tab window card reads idle clocks of 157/300, 0% gpu usage. VRMS of 32C in crysis & 105C in furmark doesn't jive. I would expect them to be around 75-85C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaredpace

Well if you notice, in that gpu-z sensor tab window card reads idle clocks of 157/300, 0% gpu usage. VRMS of 32C in crysis & 105C in furmark doesn't jive. I would expect them to be around 75-85C

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yes i see that I don't know what up with that 0% ,while the test in running the osd show full load on both gpu's and same mhz
the temp I just going to leave it alone ,the performances is solid ,so if not broken don't fix it:up:

The 5970 reference design uses the *best* available components for both board and heatsink construction - I mean that quite literally.

It is critical that if the cooling solution is replaced, VRM cooling is seriously taken into consideration when selecting a replacement cooling solution. The Volterra regulator slaves (small shiny silicon components) must be kept cool for proper operation (125C rated, 150C shutdown) and to prevent the board from throttling clocks (typically at 125C).

The only recommended thermal interface materials (TIM) are:

Volterra Slaves (small shiny components) - T-Pli 225/230 - 230 is slightly thick and is easier to handle , best TIM available @ 6W/m-k
GDDR5 Memory/Inductors - black components (some marked CPL/Cooper/Pulse) - thin conformal pad, high thermal conductivity - few available

If the inductors are not thermal coupled to the waterblock, the waterblock will encase the part and allow it cook in this environment.

If you are "upgrading" to a liquid cooling block, you may want to carefully consider transferring the thermal material to the waterblock. It can be removed and kept intact with a fine blade.

To validate the VRM cooling is working , you can look at the graph/logs of GPU-Z for the VDDC Phase #1/2/3 temperatures running your favourite application - the readings are very accurate and directly reflect the regulator silicon junction temperatures.

I have seen single piece waterblocks struggle to provide adequate pressure to all components on such large dual GPU boards - there are many components to cool and it is very challenging to perform this function using a single piece of CNC'd copper. The tolerances are extremely tight, so you may have to overtighten screws to help pull the copper plate against the board - but then you risk damaging board components.


Otherwise, contact the manufacturer (DD/EK/Coolance etc.) and request that they consider using the same thermal interface materials as used on the reference design in the future.

Feel free to post this info on other forums. Much of it applies to other boards as well.

As an aside, I would not recommend running Furmark - it will only thermally stress your hardware (potentially shortening its useful life) and provide little indication on stable overclock speeds, which is the main reason users generally run it. The board may also throttle speeds, which again will not provide any insight into the maximum achievable speeds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by controlyar

The 5970 reference design uses the *best* available components for both board and heatsink construction - I mean that quite literally.

It is critical that if the cooling solution is replaced, VRM cooling is seriously taken into consideration when selecting a replacement cooling solution. The Volterra regulator slaves (small shiny silicon components) must be kept cool for proper operation (125C rated, 150C shutdown) and to prevent the board from throttling clocks (typically at 125C).

The only recommended thermal interface materials (TIM) are:

Volterra Slaves (small shiny components) - T-Pli 225/230 - 230 is slightly thick and is easier to handle , best TIM available @ 6W/m-k
GDDR5 Memory/Inductors - black components (some marked CPL/Cooper/Pulse) - thin conformal pad, high thermal conductivity - few available

If the inductors are not thermal coupled to the waterblock, the waterblock will encase the part and allow it cook in this environment.

If you are "upgrading" to a liquid cooling block, you may want to carefully consider transferring the thermal material to the waterblock. It can be removed and kept intact with a fine blade.

To validate the VRM cooling is working , you can look at the graph/logs of GPU-Z for the VDDC Phase #1/2/3 temperatures running your favourite application - the readings are very accurate and directly reflect the regulator silicon junction temperatures.

I have seen single piece waterblocks struggle to provide adequate pressure to all components on such large dual GPU boards - there are many components to cool and it is very challenging to perform this function using a single piece of CNC'd copper. The tolerances are extremely tight, so you may have to overtighten screws to help pull the copper plate against the board - but then you risk damaging board components.


Otherwise, contact the manufacturer (DD/EK/Coolance etc.) and request that they consider using the same thermal interface materials as used on the reference design in the future.

Feel free to post this info on other forums. Much of it applies to other boards as well.

As an aside, I would not recommend running Furmark - it will only thermally stress your hardware (potentially shortening its useful life) and provide little indication on stable overclock speeds, which is the main reason users generally run it. The board may also throttle speeds, which again will not provide any insight into the maximum achievable speeds.

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well men you really do your home work
yes I am sure now that the card throttle down under stress
only 3 times on air I get 27K score
every time I try again at the same settings that got me there
on water ,when the test start it go to 110 fps, then 2sec later boom it throttled back
if not a big issue really because game performances seem unaffected
thanks I'm honor that you register on 2006 and waited 4 year for a post worthy of your knowledge LOL

some guy ask to check and post gpu 2 clocks and
what the hell this means ?:shrug:

No homework here - I designed the board :)

Long-time lurker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by controlyar

No homework here - I designed the board :)

Long-time lurker.

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Realy :eek:


So what do you suggest then, if we use for example the EK block to watercool the card then we should use all the tim pads from the stock cooler with the waterblock rather than the grey rubbery pads provided with the waterblock :confused:


Also, why does this card (all 5XXX series for that matter) seem to exhibit the freeze/grey screen/stipes issues so often......driver or hardware fault???

I am not aware of the specific TIM the LC vendors use on the blocks.

The thermal conductivity of the gap pads on the reference design heatsink are of the highest conductivity - however, the block and reference heatsink are likely not exact matches in terms of height, so the gap pad requirements may not be identical (ie. one requires a slightly thicker pad to make contact). The material we select is actually simulated to ensure the pressure exerted will not damage the part once the heatsink is tightened.

Ideally, the block vendor will use comparable TIM's. If not, you can transfer the TIM over and then use software to validate the cooling performance. Again, the cooling of the Volterra slaves is the most critical so those particular locations should be using the T-Pli TIM.

On the grey screen issue, it is being investigated with considerable effort I assure you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by controlyar

I am not aware of the specific TIM the LC vendors use on the blocks.

The thermal conductivity of the gap pads on the reference design heatsink are of the highest conductivity - however, the block and reference heatsink are likely not exact matches in terms of height, so the gap pad requirements may not be identical (ie. one requires a slightly thicker pad to make contact). The material we select is actually simulated to ensure the pressure exerted will not damage the part once the heatsink is tightened.

Ideally, the block vendor will use comparable TIM's. If not, you can transfer the TIM over and then use software to validate the cooling performance. Again, the cooling of the Volterra slaves is the most critical so those particular locations should be using the T-Pli TIM.

On the grey screen issue, it is being investigated with considerable effort I assure you.

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Okay, thankyou very much. :)

Wow, we get to 'talk' to the board designer directly - cool!

The 'pad thickness' problem makes sense, when I was using the Koolance block the VRM temps flew up towards 150C during O/C (and using furmark) no matter what I did...
I couldn't get the water block tightened up enough, and not much of a imprint in the (fairly thick) pads.

But when using the DD block, no problem - the highest VRM temp I seen so far is around 55-60C, and that's with core at 990mhz, voltage at 1.25, running furmark for 20 minutes or so.
Measuring the temps with a IR meter on the back of the board seems to verify these temps.
DD is using thinner pads, so I assume the tolerances are tighter...

Controlyar - do you happen to have any insight in the '2D lockup' problems some of the 5970 owners here are experiencing?
I have a buddy at work with a 5970 that get this problem at (cold) bootup - and he's using the OEM heatsink, no O/C.
Seems like disabling ULPS and rising 2D clock speeds helps for some...

On the low temp issue, this is not something we have seen internally. The product is qualified down to 0C ambient and the board is allowed to soak to allow it to approach this temperature after which a large matrix of tests are run.

This may be related to another issue under debug, so I will try to follow up after.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by controlyar

On the low temp issue, this is not something we have seen internally. The product is qualified down to 0C ambient and the board is allowed to soak to allow it to approach this temperature after which a large matrix of tests are run.

This may be related to another issue under debug, so I will try to follow up after.

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ohh don't worry about it , find out yesterday that a don,t have that issue that lowdog got a all ,my problem was a bug in the OSD of After Burner
if the osd is monitoring the test it affect the fps drastically ,why I don,t know maybe you can get that fix with the next drivers set
with the osd on I get 25k now that I know that I get this
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Capturedam.png

that quite a difference why is that ,this make no sence
but a happy now is beast still

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by controlyar

On the low temp issue, this is not something we have seen internally. The product is qualified down to 0C ambient and the board is allowed to soak to allow it to approach this temperature after which a large matrix of tests are run.

This may be related to another issue under debug, so I will try to follow up after.

---

Hi controlyar,
Thanks for coming on here to talk to us, that is really good of you.

If I might hijack Lord Farken's thread for a quick question,

I am able to run my 5970 @ 1Ghz using 1.235v (EK install results here) Where would you consider the 24/7 voltage limit for these cards to be?

My VRMs temps as reported by GPUz are always well under 50c (usually mid 30s) only using Furmark do these hit 100c.
GPUs barely touch 40c during prolonged gaming even with a higher room ambient, like 25-30c.

1000mhz is plenty for day to day use but I think it can go higher, only i don't want to degrade this card so early on.

Thanks.

Reliability lifetime is kind of black magic but I won't get into that or the specific details for products. It is more meaningful to discuss it in relative terms. Engineers are generally on the conservative side as well.

Generally speaking, the lifetime degradation with increased voltage is much more pronounced than increased temperature. With LC installed, the ~50C temperature reduction will allow you boost the voltage slightly with a negligible net reliability impact.

With DPM enabled, you have to consider your effective activity factor - ie. how many hours per day will you be playing games and running at the higher voltage? . If low, then again you can consider a small voltage boost.

Practically, VDDC = 1.1875V setpoint should not degrade the product with extended gaming (5870 uses this setting). Anything beyond that and you are impacting lifetime, but consider the factors above.

The hardware is effectively "obsolete" within 1 year and is generally not worth using after 3 years, especially in the enthusiast space - the boards burn too much power for the performance they can deliver relative to the latest products.

So achieving high reliability (ie. many years) and enthusiast gaming experiences are almost in direct conflict.

Yes, your last points bring it all into focus.
I have a pile of 4850, 4870 and two 4870x2s sitting here now redundant unless i can think of a use for them.
Around a year is what i will expect to use it for, and it will only be using the VDDC of 1.1235v for 2-3hrs most evenings.
Any increase will be for short benching runs

Thanks for such a detailed reply.:D

I just received my FC5970 from Performance PCs yesterday. Thought I am not new to watercooling by any means, I still followed the instructions carefully. After I got the loop filled and bled, I fired up the system and booted into Windows (x64 Ultimate). After about 5-10 minutes, I started noticing flickering on the screen, then got the gray vertical stripes (never had that before with this card). Since then I have had several lockups, even with uninstalling the drivers and installing the latest hotfix. Even locks up in the BIOS. This only happened after I changed the stock cooler out for the waterblock.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm going to have to take the block off and see if something's not making contact right. Damn tight loop though :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t_ski

I just received my FC5970 from Performance PCs yesterday. Thought I am not new to watercooling by any means, I still followed the instructions carefully. After I got the loop filled and bled, I fired up the system and booted into Windows (x64 Ultimate). After about 5-10 minutes, I started noticing flickering on the screen, then got the gray vertical stripes (never had that before with this card). Since then I have had several lockups, even with uninstalling the drivers and installing the latest hotfix. Even locks up in the BIOS. This only happened after I changed the stock cooler out for the waterblock.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm going to have to take the block off and see if something's not making contact right. Damn tight loop though :(

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mine never give that problem ,however my vrm temps were over 130c at max oc so even when the pad supplied by ek should be enough
I buy an extra pad kit and paste remove it and repad everything double and even in components that no supposed to bet doing contact with a bit of paste and now nothing go over 30c
so check what is the max temps with gpu-z in all the sensors
the is more threads about this issues just search for lowdog posts
he got a similar problem
I hope you get fix ,is such a big improve over running on air
just today i get over 30,160 gpu points in vantage

Thanks - I'll see if I can find his posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Farken

alright I run furmark xtreme burning test for 10min set gpu-z to high reading
here the pic,the vddc are to hot I guess they are not making good contact with cooler ,which one in the pbc are dose ?
the gpu's temp drop 10c with the new cooling ,how they can be such a huge temp differences ,40c gpu vddc 126c damn:shrug:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...4/gputemps.png

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Before you remount your block, disable voltage monitoring in AfterBurner and test the temps again. My 5870's VDDC can skyrocket to 1.65V which causes 100+ degree VRMs when I've more than one app (Everest Ultimate + MSI AB + GPU-Z) monitoring the GPU's voltages.

Phil

I think lowdog and I may have the same problem:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=14

I turned off my fans and turned my D5 vario pump down to 1 and the systems is stable again. Need to do some more reading on this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philwong

Before you remount your block, disable voltage monitoring in AfterBurner and test the temps again. My 5870's VDDC can skyrocket to 1.65V which causes 100+ degree VRMs when I've more than one app (Everest Ultimate + MSI AB + GPU-Z) monitoring the GPU's voltages.

Phil

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yes you are right, that was before notice the bug
yeah that why can use OSD in AB no more ,it got a bug the even affect the fps in benchmarks:mad:
it my card woul realy get to over 130 it would be toast

anyone ever notice a difference between the nickel plated ones and the just copper ones?

There should not be a difference in performance. The nickel plating just keeps the block looking nice by preventing oxidation.

copper is the # 1choise for cooling but water on it no matter what it will corrode the copper in the long run just like a penny , so a nickel plating coat protect from that
technically full contact to cooper is better, but such small amount of nickel between can't do any noticeable difference
so paying 10 to 20 bucks extra for the nickel is save you future issues