First Fermi Working Samples for CES 2010

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11-05-2009, 10:49 AM
zalbard

First Fermi Working Samples for CES 2010

Since the Fermi thread got moved from the news section, I have to make a separate one.
Source: http://hardocp.com/

Quote:

As the Consumer Electronics Show grows near, NVIDIA partners are having to get their ducks in line for the upcoming show in the second week of January. However many are asking, why exactly they should be there spending hard earned money with nothing to show off except rebadged parts from generations past? Certainly the 8800 GTX / GTS 250 has seen many CES presentations before. We have word from several different sources that NVIDIA is doing its best to have "working" Fermi-based video cards to show off for CES. We are unsure as to what level they will be shown working, if at all, but for all you NVIDIA fans, this is certainly something good to hear.

Even given a best case scenario for NVIDIA, we here at HardOCP.com find it hard to believe that NVIDIA will get any "real" amount of product to market by March of next year. Worth mentioning also NVIDIA has yet to speak one word to us about the gaming abilities of the Fermi GPU. It makes us think that NVIDIA does not even know yet.

Bad news if it's true. No Fermi at all in 2009 in this case, at all. And limited availability in Q1 2010...
11-05-2009, 10:51 AM
Greg83

Aww, that would means high 5*** prices until next year
11-05-2009, 10:53 AM
eleeter

I'd take a bit higher price right now in exchange for actually being able to buy a 5870. :dammit:
11-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Utnorris

I do not think ATI counted on their HD5800's being so popular. Now if could get some thin bezel monitors with both a DP port and DVI port then we would be complete.
11-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Helloworld_98

so if this follows everything else that comes out of CES we should see it in June 2010 at the earliest, and more likely August or September.
11-05-2009, 10:59 AM
zalbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleeter

I'd take a bit higher price right now in exchange for actually being able to buy a 5870. :dammit:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index...id=VDC.243.272
Oh, and a ton more, but I didn't bother to check which ones actually have them in stock: http://www.shopbot.ca/default.asp?kw...osition=search
11-05-2009, 11:02 AM
Utnorris

By the way ZipZoomfly has them in stock.
11-05-2009, 11:10 AM
Glow9

Maybe this time their demo card won't be as screwy looking like a couple months ago. With vents blocked and wood screws and such.
11-05-2009, 11:17 AM
zalbard

Till February (at least) ATI cards will be seriously dominating the sales. In November - January (that's 3 months! or more, if Nvidia doesn't release their card by February, 1st) I don't see Nvidia making many sales at all. What is it that they have to offer? ATI cards are better for each segment atm.
4770 - 5770 - 5870 and many more; low, mid and high end very well covered with 40nm DX10.1 and DX11 chips.
11-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Serra

I really hope that isn't true. New architecture competition is what pushes out new products and lower prices. The guys at ATi must be pretty happy though... if true it means that Christmas came about 2 months early for them.
11-05-2009, 11:56 AM
RaZz!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glow9

Maybe this time their demo card won't be as screwy looking like a couple months ago. With vents blocked and wood screws and such.

a couple months ago? you mean one (1) month ago :p:
11-05-2009, 12:05 PM
thenrz

They must actually, for real be having problems. There's been talk of problems, but no one has any real sources...now we hear the first Fermis won't be around until CES 2010? If we aren't looking for volume until I'd guess Q2 2010, what is stopping ATi from having their next uArch ready by Q3 or whatever it was? They've got some catchup to play!
11-05-2009, 12:19 PM
[XC] gomeler

Well this is exactly what AMD needs. ATI had better be stupidly profitable 09Q4 and 10Q1. More importantly AMD needs to beat some motivation into whoever is holding up their RV870 production..
11-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Helloworld_98

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Well this is exactly what AMD needs. ATI had better be stupidly profitable 09Q4 and 10Q1. More importantly AMD needs to beat some motivation into whoever is holding up their RV870 production..

ATi are pretty damn profitable already, they had $128m in profit last quarter iirc.
11-05-2009, 12:25 PM
trinibwoy

I hope that number was a typo.
11-05-2009, 12:26 PM
eric66

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Well this is exactly what AMD needs. ATI had better be stupidly profitable 09Q4 and 10Q1. More importantly AMD needs to beat some motivation into whoever is holding up their RV870 production..

that would be TMSC :D and i doubt ati can do antyhing about tehre lameness tahts why they need global foundries
11-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Farinorco

So it seems that thing of March+ is taking shape... :(:(:(

:banana::banana::banana::banana:, it's not like I can't be with the ATI offerings, but I like to choose from various possibilities (in the price range I want to make my purchase, of course). And I like there's competition regardless what I finally buy because of prices.

And that's on higher end. The more affordable Fermi card at launch will probably be the GTX360 (or whatever they want to name it), which probably will compete with HD5870 if things are like the past generation... however, all things considered, it's possible that when those cards come into market AMD can start a bloody war of prices taking advantage of the months that their products have been being sold (they would be for ~6 months on the market...) so pricing could be not so horrible...

At this pace, Fermi based middle and low end is going to end up competing against HD6000 series instead of HD5000.
11-05-2009, 01:15 PM
K404

ATI had BETTER NOT screw up this lead. If they haven't learned from AMDs and nVidias mistakes about complacency then the deserve what they get.
11-05-2009, 01:16 PM
Manicdan

this is why nvidia need to think about more than just one big card at a time. last years big card should not be this years renamed mainstream card.

when is nvidia going to have a 200$ dx11 card? late spring/early summer?
11-05-2009, 01:24 PM
tajoh111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

ATi are pretty damn profitable already, they had $128m in profit last quarter iirc.

I really really doubt that, Sales were down 22% percent over last years. And the only thing I see involving AMD and 128M dollars last quarter, is a 128million dollar loss.

I find it hard to believe that AMD graphic division could profit 128 million dollars off of 306 million dollars in revenue.

Considering previous quarter sales have been similar and not been able to generate that much net profit.

This is good news for AMD, bad news for the rest of us, if this turns out to be true. The quicker NV gets a direct x 11 card out, the sooner 5xxx prices will drop if they turn out to be good products. Additionally the sooner directx 11 software support takes off.
11-05-2009, 01:39 PM
trinibwoy

Graphics made $8m.
11-05-2009, 01:50 PM
Sam_oslo

I don't know if this history is true, I'v heard so much junk that i don't trust anymore ... but can the recent price jump + shortage av 5x-series
indicates that ATI is expecting something like this?.
11-05-2009, 01:51 PM
003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

so if this follows everything else that comes out of CES we should see it in June 2010 at the earliest, and more likely August or September.

Yeah. No. Fermi should have limited availability by the earliest, February, and a paper launch much earlier, possibly in December.
11-05-2009, 01:55 PM
Utnorris

I think that is a dream to think Fermi will even launch on paper in December, maybe, just maybe January/February.
11-05-2009, 02:01 PM
Periander6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

ATi are pretty damn profitable already, they had $128m in profit last quarter iirc.

Nonsense. AMD's graphics division (ATI) posted an operating income of 8 million on 306 million in revs.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....558&highlight=

Meanwhile Nvidia just announced today profits of 110 million on 903 million in revs. Quadro makes a huge difference for Nvidia, huge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...0091105?rpc=44
11-05-2009, 02:05 PM
terente0081

If that's true, Nvidia lost this one for sure. Fermi better turn out to be 100% faster than a 5870 if they make us wait for it for so long, because it will end up fighting the 6 series by the time it will reach market.
11-05-2009, 02:07 PM
Manicdan

how much do you think intel makes on their igp gpus?
11-05-2009, 04:11 PM
SoulsCollective

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/394489...trade_Corp.jpg

COMING SOON TO A TECH STORE NEAR YOU!
11-05-2009, 04:22 PM
lkiller123

Quote:

Originally Posted by terente0081

If that's true, Nvidia lost this one for sure. Fermi better turn out to be 100% faster than a 5870 if they make us wait for it for so long, because it will end up fighting the 6 series by the time it will reach market.

And I bet that it will be :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed expensive, but offering a similar performance with the 5870s.
11-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Hu1kamania

As eager as I am to see the performance of Nvidias new offering, I am still scraping my pennies together to be sure I have enough of them when fermi comes out. So, I can afford to wait, even though many can't.

This is what it might look like when I am done collecting my pennies:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-qzqZpuqMF...geMoneyBin.jpg
11-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Smartidiot89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

this is why nvidia need to think about more than just one big card at a time. last years big card should not be this years renamed mainstream card.

when is nvidia going to have a 200$ dx11 card? late spring/early summer?

Agreed. Did they have to release this gigantic beast the first thing they did? No.

Jensen have already said that "Fermi is very scalable" and that there will be alot of cut down models, from low-end to high-end with DX11 cards based on their Fermi/GF100 uArch.

Why not have the low-end, the mid-range and the high-end being worked on 24/7 non-stop instead of having their whole focus on 1 single card that is most likely over 500mm2 on a new process?
11-05-2009, 09:00 PM
Utnorris

I don't think it's about whether or not anyone can wait. Let's be honest here, other than Crysis, most if not all cards between $100 and $200 can play the current games out there at 1920x1080. However, we have gotten use to seeing new generations from both companies every 9 months to a year and it is surprising to see Nvidia behind the eight ball this time around. I don't doubt that Nvidia will take back the performance crown from ATI, as they should since they are launching almost 6 months after the 5800 series, but by the time they do we have no idea if ATI will have a new card to throw at them to counter the GT300. For the consumer, competition is good and this round ATI does not have any, so we are not seeing the benefits of said competition, such as lower prices. As far as the actions of Nvidia, I am afraid that this may cost them in the long run, sort of like what happened with AMD when the C2D came out and ever since AMD has been playing catch up. I would really hate to see Nvidia in that spot as it will not be good for us, the consumer. We need these two companies fighting for the performance crown so that we can get extremely good GPU's at lower prices.
11-06-2009, 12:08 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Periander6

Nonsense. AMD's graphics division (ATI) posted an operating income of 8 million on 306 million in revs.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....558&highlight=

Meanwhile Nvidia just announced today profits of 110 million on 903 million in revs. Quadro makes a huge difference for Nvidia, huge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...0091105?rpc=44

the quadro stronghold is also going down real fast, it used to be that there was only 1-2 OEM that had 1-2 firegl in there workstation portfolio... now its 50/50 last generation firegl was really good and a better value for money up untill the quadro fx4800 only the 5800 was still the king, now soon with the new firegl this will be gone too, then only the name remains the strong part, just as with the blue team for so many years, sell by name. no reason at all to stay only with quadro anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utnorris

I don't think it's about whether or not anyone can wait. Let's be honest here, other than Crysis, most if not all cards between $100 and $200 can play the current games out there at 1920x1080. However, we have gotten use to seeing new generations from both companies every 9 months to a year and it is surprising to see Nvidia behind the eight ball this time around. I don't doubt that Nvidia will take back the performance crown from ATI, as they should since they are launching almost 6 months after the 5800 series, but by the time they do we have no idea if ATI will have a new card to throw at them to counter the GT300. For the consumer, competition is good and this round ATI does not have any, so we are not seeing the benefits of said competition, such as lower prices. As far as the actions of Nvidia, I am afraid that this may cost them in the long run, sort of like what happened with AMD when the C2D came out and ever since AMD has been playing catch up. I would really hate to see Nvidia in that spot as it will not be good for us, the consumer. We need these two companies fighting for the performance crown so that we can get extremely good GPU's at lower prices.

already forgotten nvidia prices when 8800 series and gt200 series was launched??? I think the ati prices are very very reasonable for its performance......
11-06-2009, 12:40 AM
dan7777

so NO new NV card this year ? thats made my mind up who im going with and it aint guna be NV 5870x2 i thinks....
11-06-2009, 01:44 AM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/394489...trade_Corp.jpg

COMING SOON TO A TECH STORE NEAR YOU!

LOLLL

does this mean timber to fermi ????
11-06-2009, 02:02 AM
N19h7m4r3

Fermi 2x4, perfect for beating on Fanboys while screaming " NV ROCKS! ATI IS NOTHING!!!! "
11-06-2009, 02:30 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

the quadro stronghold is also going down real fast, it used to be that there was only 1-2 OEM that had 1-2 firegl in there workstation portfolio... now its 50/50 last generation firegl was really good and a better value for money up untill the quadro fx4800 only the 5800 was still the king, now soon with the new firegl this will be gone too, then only the name remains the strong part, just as with the blue team for so many years, sell by name. no reason at all to stay only with quadro anymore.

Thats only one factor, ati began quite late to make it popular that there cards are also certified for certain CAD/DCC programs. Also there where ceartain features that where not fully support/limited (full support came with the last generation, RV700).

The still will take a few years for ati to etablish a name for themself in the professional community.
11-06-2009, 02:38 AM
Piotrsama

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan7777

so NO new NV card this year ? thats made my mind up who im going with and it aint guna be NV 5870x2 i thinks....

Nice card.... who's making it?
:D
11-06-2009, 04:35 AM
saaya

this sounds like there were no working fermi cards at gtc? 0_o
11-06-2009, 04:43 AM
N19h7m4r3

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

this sounds like there were no working fermi cards at gtc? 0_o

Probably weren't.

Worst thing is I was looking forward to getting a new NV card.

Thanks to all their rubbish I think I'll wait for the AMD 6xxx series.
11-06-2009, 04:49 AM
NaMcO

They're so close, the smell is in the air already...
11-06-2009, 04:58 AM
Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

this sounds like there were no working fermi cards at gtc? 0_o

Prob not in the way we think they were. Like said before, dangling with wires etc, probably only just brought up the chip properly.
11-06-2009, 04:58 AM
trinibwoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

this sounds like there were no working fermi cards at gtc? 0_o

Rys@B3D claims the n-body demo was running on real Fermi hardware. Definition of real left to your imagination.
11-06-2009, 05:08 AM
Dimitriman

anyone wanna bet on a delayed 5970??
11-06-2009, 07:14 AM
Manicdan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

anyone wanna bet on a delayed 5970??

why would they?

ATI NEEEEEDS to get every usable chip out on the market asap. once fermi comes out, its a guess as to what the prices will be, and the performance. no point risking it when this is the time in which ATI will earn the most profit.
11-06-2009, 07:41 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

anyone wanna bet on a delayed 5970??

ATI doesn't need to delay 5970 (or other GPU). Right now, ATI has a much better opportunity to "adjust" the availability (for keeping it just under the marked-demand). We have seen a shortage of 5x-series and a little price jump already, and this kind of "marked-policy" may continue until the real competition kicks inn. but why delay?
11-06-2009, 01:04 PM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

anyone wanna bet on a delayed 5970??

I'll take that one with ya, ATi could use the time for a respin for power draw an driver improvements
11-06-2009, 01:16 PM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaMcO

They're so close, the smell is in the air already...

Smells like a cow pasture
11-06-2009, 01:49 PM
Periander6

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

the quadro stronghold is also going down real fast

No.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...r_graphics.png
11-06-2009, 01:54 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

Smells like a cow pasture

Better listen to what that guy says, he works for a shop that is an nVidia certified partner here in Portugal.

I know him good enough though, if he says the cards are close, then they are.
11-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by K404

ATI had BETTER NOT screw up this lead. If they haven't learned from AMDs and nVidias mistakes about complacency then the deserve what they get.

Well, it seems it wasn't just AMD's incompetence that screwed up their lead from 2003 to 2007 over Intel. Apparently Intel actively screwed them with a lot of big vendors stifling their ability to make profit, compete and bring out better products in a timely manner. Also, ATI = AMD. Your post is fundamentally WRONG :p:.

/sardonicism
11-06-2009, 02:15 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Periander6

No.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...r_graphics.png

lol.. wth i didn't know atis professional cards had such a bad stand... 6% marketshare....... ugh.. i expected them to have at least 15-20%. :shocked:
11-06-2009, 02:41 PM
trinibwoy

Yeah they're pretty much non-existent in that area. They have good hardware but can't currently match Nvidia's software and support.
11-06-2009, 02:54 PM
freeloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by K404

ATI had BETTER NOT screw up this lead. If they haven't learned from AMDs and nVidias mistakes about complacency then the deserve what they get.

:up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::u p::up::up::up::up::up::up:

Also, by the time Fermi is released, ATI may very well be taping out another silicon for a 6870 part. That's assuming of course that they're not complacent like you said.
11-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Dimitriman

I believe AMD could delay 5970 because it takes two chips to make 1 card. While profit margin is likely higher on vanilla 5870, which according to most people, is in short supply.

To sum up: AMD needs manufacturing headroom for 5870 and could delay other cards.
11-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Andrew LB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

why would they?

ATI NEEEEEDS to get every usable chip out on the market asap.

You're speaking from a consumer point of view.

From a management point of view, AMD should hang on to new technologies while they improve their silicon manufacturing process. This will allow themselves to sell off their stockpiles of previous-gen cards to consumers and to prevent 3rd party manufacturers to get stuck with lots of product.
11-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Computurd

yeah ati needs to get in where they fit in, pushing their stuff to market as soon as possible, and maybe swaying some from the green side over to red, they have the advantage, they just need to capitalize on it!
11-06-2009, 09:30 PM
xenolith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew LB

You're speaking from a consumer point of view.

From a management point of view, AMD should hang on to new technologies while they improve their silicon manufacturing process. This will allow themselves to sell off their stockpiles of previous-gen cards to consumers and to prevent 3rd party manufacturers to get stuck with lots of product.

I was thinking that could be why 58xx's have been tricking out so slowly.

I know, I know, TMSC has had 40nm yield troubles, blah... blah... blah... of course that's what they want you to believe.