Crytek: Current gen will last until 2012

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GDC Europe 2009: Cevat Yerli speaks about the next iteration of Cryengine and why games aren't going to get any better looking over the next three years.

COLOGNE, Germany--As the head of one of the highest-profile PC development studios in the world, Crytek CEO and founder Cevat Yerli is well placed to hold a session titled "The Future of Gaming Graphics." Crytek has been responsible for Far Cry and Crysis--two of the most cutting-edge games on the market upon their release, and he is currently hard at work bringing Crysis 2 to the PC as well as Xbox 360 and PS3.


Yerli was keen to stress that between now and 2012, we shouldn't expect games to advance much beyond what they look like today. "Games 'til 2012 will not look very different than [they do today], since engines are bound to console cycles." Yerli forecasts that the next major CryEngine upgrade will arrive in 2012, around the same time he believes the next generation of console hardware will arrive. That said, he fully acknowledges the strength of the Wii and the prospect of an elongated console life cycle and warned that if a new generation didn’t arrive in 2012-2013, then "it could be a long time."

While Yerli claims that the current graphical benchmark has been set, he says that we should still expect "huge gains in physics, AI, and simulation of special effects" over the next few years. He also says, in reference to the Fox animated movie series, that by 2013 "you will be able to do Ice Age in real time." Matching animated movies in real-time seems to be a major goal for Yerli, who used Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within as a benchmark for CryEngine 3.

"We wanted to beat the faces in the Final Fantasy movie, but doing in real time what they were doing offline. Every day I was getting posted images from the Final Fantasy movie," he joked. He then proceeded to show a video of the incredibly lifelike facial models in the latest iteration of the engine. "One face has more technology than the entire first Far Cry," he claimed.

CryEngine 3 is the company's current technology foundation, which Yerli claims will form the bedrock of the company's games until 2012. Yerli showed off a demo of Crysis rebuilt using the latest technology. It included 3D volumetric clouds, soft particles, parallax occlusion mapping, and a 7km view distance. Clearly, Yerli is undeterred by the criticism he received for the original Crysis and its high system requirements. “It was always my dream to have a game that I could play now, and then in two years when I upgrade my PC, play again,” he stated.

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Source: http://gamescom.gamespot.com/story/6...il-2012-crytek

If this is the case then we won't see any games that look better than MGS4 or GOW2 till another 2-3 years from now. :rolleyes:

so... he's not going to include any dx11 features in crysis2? no tesselation or hdao? i bet you he changes his tune when dirt2, assassins creed 2, and a few other dx11 games hit the market. when a company that made it's name with cutting edge graphics decides that they aren't going to persue the latest advances in hardware and software tech, you know there is a problem.

i predict that in 5 years from now, computers will be almost twice as fast, but so expensive that only the kings of europe can afford them.

the 360 has similar tessellation to dx11, i would expect it be included on the pc

and i think that MS needs a new console now but reasonably at the end of next year if they just keep it the same or minor updates and include a blue ray that would be fine but they are keeping the whole gaming industry back with the ridiculous licensing on multi disk and having such small capacities to work with

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Originally Posted by 570091D

so... he's not going to include any dx11 features in crysis2? no tesselation or hdao? i bet you he changes his tune when dirt2, assassins creed 2, and a few other dx11 games hit the market. when a company that made it's name with cutting edge graphics decides that they aren't going to persue the latest advances in hardware and software tech, you know there is a problem.

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DX11 only adds tessellation. Tessellation requires totally different base geometry. You'll be able to count the number of devs willing to support multiple art pipelines on one hand. There are just too many consoles and PCs out there that do not support tessellation for it to make a big impact. I would be impressed if Codemasters uses it effectively in Dirt2, especially considering it's going to be tacked on.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

DX11 only adds tessellation. Tessellation requires totally different base geometry. You'll be able to count the number of devs willing to support multiple art pipelines on one hand. There are just too many consoles and PCs out there that do not support tessellation for it to make a big impact. I would be impressed if Codemasters uses it effectively in Dirt2, especially considering it's going to be tacked on.

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i thought that it was the engine not the game that he was talking about

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

i thought that it was the engine not the game that he was talking about

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yeah, i am talking about engines, sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

DX11 only adds tessellation. Tessellation requires totally different base geometry. You'll be able to count the number of devs willing to support multiple art pipelines on one hand. There are just too many consoles and PCs out there that do not support tessellation for it to make a big impact. I would be impressed if Codemasters uses it effectively in Dirt2, especially considering it's going to be tacked on.

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i feel it's reasonable to believe that the next valve engine, id engine, and epic engine all support full dx11 feature sets. crytek is making a mistake by passing this up, as they will be passed by the afore metioned companies.

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Originally Posted by 570091D

crytek is making a mistake by passing this up, as they will be passed by the afore metioned companies.

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Are they? After the DX10 and especially "DX10.1" flops i have to see it to believe it :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by grimREEFER

i predict that in 5 years from now, computers will be almost twice as fast, but so expensive that only the kings of europe can afford them.

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may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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he says that we should still expect "huge gains in physics, AI, and simulation of special effects"

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GOOD!

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Originally Posted by soundood

may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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Laws were made to be broken.

Let's see what happens after DX11 hardwares are fully released. It would probably change Cevat's view, but it won't be much.

I have respect for the Crytek company, but today's time is a bit early for them to tell.

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Originally Posted by gosh

GOOD!

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+1


i dont care if graphics in a game are shocking if the game play is actually amazing :)

they are making it into a console game\engine it seems and they are saying there will be nothing new till around 2012 which is getting close to when net gen consoles will be out so i guess they have given up on pc's for now
i find it hard to believe that pc graphics wont improve a fair amount over ~5 years as crysis was released late 2007

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Originally Posted by soundood

may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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its an old joke from the simpsons that i screwed up the phrasing of.
professor frink said in season 7 episode 23 "I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."

Graphics have had too much focus in the last few years, while physics has trailed behind (CryEngine 2 is powerful but the physics left much to be desired) and I dare not speak about AI. Furthermore, the actual story and gameplay of most games now is borderline plagiarism; the re-hashing of gameplay styles and ideas is just unbearable. If I have to play another WWII game...

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Originally Posted by soundood

may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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May I suggest a google for Simpsons references?

"I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them." :up:

On topic: I'm more worried if we will even se a proper new generation. Maybe it will just be the current consoles hardware times two, and that is rather depressing

This reminded me of when Doom 3 came out, and they said that it would be at least another year until hardware would be able to play it maxed out (when 512mb cards came out). And the 6800 Ultra maxed it out at over 40fps...

Not really the same scenario, but it just reminded me of that. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by soundood

may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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Let me introduce you to a game called Crysis on my 3007wfp. ;)

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

DX11 only adds tessellation. Tessellation requires totally different base geometry. You'll be able to count the number of devs willing to support multiple art pipelines on one hand. There are just too many consoles and PCs out there that do not support tessellation for it to make a big impact. I would be impressed if Codemasters uses it effectively in Dirt2, especially considering it's going to be tacked on.

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RIGHT! :p:

XBOX360 has Tesselation hardware since day 1 .... and it sold quite well I would say.
Codemasters DIRT2 will use tesselation on DX11 hardware - proof? Just head over here and look at that video in HD. When they showing model of crowd. Can you see what is it name?? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by 570091D

i feel it's reasonable to believe that the next valve engine, id engine, and epic engine all support full dx11 feature sets. crytek is making a mistake by passing this up, as they will be passed by the afore metioned companies.

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id and Epic have already said publicly that their current engines are going to last for a few more years so I wouldn't expect anything new from them before 2012 either. id is also looking to go the voxel route so we may never see tessellation from them. Valve maybe, but I'm still skeptical they will use it in any big way for the reason that DX11 will be a miniscule segment of the market for a long time. Tessellation isn't like increasing texture resolution, you literally have to have two versions of all your geometry, the one to be tessellated and the regular one for older hardware.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

XBOX360 has Tesselation hardware since day 1

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And where are the games using it?

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Codemasters DIRT2 will use tesselation on DX11 hardware - proof? Just head over here and look at that video in HD. When they showing model of crowd. Can you see what is it name?? :rolleyes:

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You're going to have to clarify. That's a video of tech demo of some tessellated rocks (which I myself posted in the R8xx thread).

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

.......
And where are the games using it?
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gears uses it, some others do but im not sure off hand but with UT3 on the 360 its an easy fix as an overlay and uses vary little resources.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

gears uses it, some others do but im not sure off hand but with UT3 on the 360 its an easy fix as an overlay and uses vary little resources.

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Sources please? :) I have never seen any mention of UT3 support for hardware tessellation.

Haven't people realized by now that the CryTek guys are no longer PC guys first anymore?

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Sources please? :) I have never seen any mention of UT3 support for hardware tessellation.

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mass effect uses it =)

and that pina pinate or w/e something game (the lil kiddie one)

they were in AMD sides in 2005 for it so im sure quite a few use it :)

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Originally Posted by Vienna

Haven't people realized by now that the CryTek guys are no longer PC guys first anymore?

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Expected.;)

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Sources please? :) I have never seen any mention of UT3 support for hardware tessellation.

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UT3 dosnt support it, UT3 for the 360 supports it (i guess that the pc might also support r600 and rv7xx since its the same as the 360's)
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/feat...?ref=rendering

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Artist-driven terrain system:

* Terrain building and editing tool, using a dynamically deformable base height map extended by multiple layers of smoothly blended materials including displacement maps, normal maps and arbitrarily complex materials, dynamic LOD-based tessellation, and vegetation layers with procedurally-placed meshes.
* Artist-controlled layers of procedural weathering – for example, grass and vegetation on the flat areas of terrain, rock on high slopes, and snow at the peaks.

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its by no means full tessellation rendering

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Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004

mass effect uses it =)

and that pina pinate or w/e something game (the lil kiddie one)

they were in AMD sides in 2005 for it so im sure quite a few use it :)

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Ah yes, viva pinata does use it, I remember now. I would expect tessellation to be used by Microsoft exclusives like Halo or Forza but the hits there are pretty meagre, far less for cross-platform titles. I don't think mass effect uses it either, a quick google just returns people guessing on forums without backing it up with real info.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

UT3 dosnt support it, UT3 for the 360 supports it (i guess that the pc might also support r600 and rv7xx since its the same as the 360's)
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/feat...?ref=rendering

its by no means full tessellation rendering

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I don't know if that's using hardware though. At least not according to this Sweeney interview back in 04. http://www.beyond3d.com/content/interviews/17/. Looks like the terrain tessellation he's referring to there is either being done on the CPU or is just regular old displacement mapping. Also, that seems to be referring to the terrain editor, not real-time dynamic tessellation.

I find it strange that there isn't more readily available information on this out there. You would think Microsoft would push people to use one of the 360's advantages to greater effect. In any case, it's limited usage even in 360 exclusives should give you an idea of how widespread it's going to be on cross-platform engines and games.

the 360 gpu is a modded r580 and ati has had tessellation is almost every gpu since the x1800 and it might not be viable for cross platform or performance to be used in large scale. and im not 100% sure but dosnt tessellation use alot more memory than rasterization and the 360 has 512MB or ram and 10MB of gpu only ram

Tessellation actually uses less memory. It's a form of geometry compression (fewer vertices required to represent the base mesh). However, on the 360 it uses more bandwidth as the hardware doesn't have built in support for the domain and hull shaders so it has to use a lot of hacks to simulate those with data moving around in a less than optimal fashion.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

the 360 gpu is a modded r580 and ati has had tessellation is almost every gpu since the x1800 and it might not be viable for cross platform or performance to be used in large scale. and im not 100% sure but dosnt tessellation use alot more memory than rasterization and the 360 has 512MB or ram and 10MB of gpu only ram

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ati-hardware features some sort of tesselation since the radeon 8500. back then the feature was called truform.

unfortunately, ati has been very weak at establishing new standards respectiverly technologies ever since, so truform was never really used. they advertised it heavily, but they failed to convince game developers of using it. in this regard, nvidia is doing a way better job - they know how to establish a new technology, even though it might be crap. but they sell it as a godly new feature. i really think ati had to abandon a lot of good features in the past just because they suck at marketing.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

id and Epic have already said publicly that their current engines are going to last for a few more years so I wouldn't expect anything new from them before 2012 either. id is also looking to go the voxel route so we may never see tessellation from them. Valve maybe, but I'm still skeptical they will use it in any big way for the reason that DX11 will be a miniscule segment of the market for a long time. Tessellation isn't like increasing texture resolution, you literally have to have two versions of all your geometry, the one to be tessellated and the regular one for older hardware.



And where are the games using it?



You're going to have to clarify. That's a video of tech demo of some tessellated rocks (which I myself posted in the R8xx thread).

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So lets start from X360 games using tesselation.
- all titles mentioned before + very old KAMEO, GOW, GOW2, many more I haven't played yet ...

Clarification: in that video you can see a crowd model and if you look at the bottom right corner of the screen description says DiRT2. Wonder why :p:


You don't need two versions of models for tesselation. You will simply have DX11 path and if they bother DX9/10 path. The difference will be in picture quality and/or framerate. (it will be the same as when playing Morrowind with TruForm ON/OFF - same game, same models, but tesselation did the job :))

I don't understand why you're so sceptical about Tesselation if even biggest developing studios are saying this is one of the most important additions of DX11.

what said or maybe I don't realize how fast time flies but doesn't it seem awfull the down time between improvements??

Computers are evolving every 1-2 yrs and new GPUs hit about every 12 months example ATI 9700 , 2900 , 1900 , 3800 , 4800 , etc or in CPUs e6700 , e8400 , i7

consoles on the other hand X-box - nov 2001 X-box 360 - nov 2005 thats 4 yrs between and anything new this Nov????

4+ yrs is a long time in the PC world to do improvements thus our gaming experience will suffer due to consoles becoming so popular :(


oh and if the new X-box uses an IGP instead of dedicated GPU then we will all suffer with cartonish poor graphix for 4+ more yrs

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

the 360 gpu is a modded r580 and ati has had tessellation is almost every gpu since the x1800 and it might not be viable for cross platform or performance to be used in large scale. and im not 100% sure but dosnt tessellation use alot more memory than rasterization and the 360 has 512MB or ram and 10MB of gpu only ram

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Correction they had it since the R200 (8xxx seriers) in hardware, but droped it with the R300 (only software emulation) and reintroduced it with the R600.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

You don't need two versions of models for tesselation. You will simply have DX11 path and if they bother DX9/10 path.

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Then you obviously don't understand how tessellation works. You have to have both a HOS representation to tessellate and a regular triangle mesh for non-tessellation hardware. DX11 doesn't make tessellation magically happen, artists have to create new models compatible with it.

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I don't understand why you're so sceptical about Tesselation if even biggest developing studios are saying this is one of the most important additions of DX11.

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I'm not skeptical about tessellation. I'm skeptical about tessellation being used in any meaningful way because that means developers have to maintain two sets of assets for everything they want to tessellate. They aren't going to make DX11 only engines.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Then you obviously don't understand how tessellation works. You have to have both a HOS representation to tessellate and a regular triangle mesh for non-tessellation hardware. DX11 doesn't make tessellation magically happen, artists have to create new models compatible with it.



I'm not skeptical about tessellation. I'm skeptical about tessellation being used in any meaningful way because that means developers have to maintain two sets of assets for everything they want to tessellate. They aren't going to make DX11 only engines.

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Have you ever used any 3D modeling software? Do you need to models with different triangle numbers to tesselate?
So can you explain to yourself how Morrowing, HL and other patched for TruForm games got their higher poly took on Radeon8500?

Do you think designer made all the 'new' geometry fit in 1MB patch to enable TruForm?

For me tesselation needs just one object and depending on input it is doing subdividing of surfaces (triangles). There are different algorithms to achieve this. Ones are better for Spheres other are better for irregular shapes.

I don't need to use modelling software, there is a vast amount of information on the topic out there. Are you just guessing or have you actually done your research? Models submitted for tesselation aren't made up of triangles! They're made up of higher order surfaces like Bezier / NURBS patches. Truform isn't tessellation.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

I don't need to use modelling software, there is a vast amount of information on the topic out there. Are you just guessing or have you actually done your research? Models submitted for tesselation aren't made up of triangles! They're made up of higher order surfaces like Bezier / NURBS patches. Truform isn't tessellation.

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Link me to them please. Because no one is using curves to describe objects (models) in games. Unfortunately hardware haven't got there yet.

And I'm guessing DX11 implementation of tesselation, but this is educated guess. TruForm and Tesselation are not the same, but they are doing same thing. Difference is that Tesselation gives you much greater control of what you can do to surfaces. It is like shader model to fixed function.

I would like to be corrected, because I'm always open to new knowledge :up:


Here is what I've quickly found.

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The hull shader takes control points for a patch as an input. Note that this is the first appearance of patch-based data used in DirectX. The output of the hull shader essentially tells the tessellator stage how much to tessellate. The tessellator itself is a fixed function unit, taking the outputs from the hull shader and generating the added geometry. The domain shader calculates the vertex positions from the tessellation data, which is passed to the geometry shader.

It's important to recognize that the key primitive used in the tessellator is no longer a triangle: It's a patch. A patch represents a curve or region, and can be represented by a triangle, but the more common representation is a quad, used in many 3D authoring applications.

What all this means is that fully compliant DirectX 11 hardware can procedurally generate complex geometry out of relatively sparse data sets, improving bandwidth and storage requirements. This also affects animation, as changes in the control points of the patch can affect the final output in each frame.

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Not a single word about special object required for tesselator to work. It simply takes points from the mesh and applies algorithm to divide more dense mesh, then sends it for further processing as vertexes.

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

the 360 has similar tessellation to dx11, i would expect it be included on the pc

and i think that MS needs a new console now but reasonably at the end of next year if they just keep it the same or minor updates and include a blue ray that would be fine but they are keeping the whole gaming industry back with the ridiculous licensing on multi disk and having such small capacities to work with

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What ridiculous licensing fee on multi disks?

Think they are a little more for it now since multiple companies are having issues getting it to fit on one disk and well really I don't find an issue with it as long as I can install it to my HDD.
Only way MS will release a new console is when its time for its next gen one. They won't toss in a BR or even license the defunked HD-DVD just to get more capacity and leave everyone else that owns the console in the dark. Gaming Devs will not alienate a good portion of its market by doing that.

So no new consoles 'til 2013+, that's been known for a while now, and yeah it's highly likely that the extended console cycle will severely inhibit developers wishing to put money into visuals that will only be seen on the PC version of a game. This is the first time this has happened so we're in uncharted waters, and the industry is still so young that it's unpredictable enough as it is.

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Originally Posted by deathman20

What ridiculous licensing fee on multi disks?

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Zanzabar is right, the fees for 2, and especially 3 or more discs per game rise exponentially. This is just one example i found:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53976

That isn't enough motivation for MS to abandon the 360 and pump out a new console just yet, however, they'll be holding off for a few years just like Sony.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

Link me to them please. Because no one is using curves to describe objects (models) in games. Unfortunately hardware haven't got there yet.

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You're looking in the wrong places :) DX11 supports higher order surfaces such as Bezier curves to describe objects for tessellation.

Microsoft Presentation

You can then use various subdivision techniques like Catmull-Clark in your hull shader. It works on quad meshes, one of the new primitives in DX11.

Catmull-Clark
DX11 Tessellation Overview

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TruForm and Tesselation are not the same, but they are doing same thing. Difference is that Tesselation gives you much greater control of what you can do to surfaces. It is like shader model to fixed function.

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It's much worse than that, Truform just blindly tries to smooth everything out. Which obviously is not what you want. That was one of the big reasons it wasn't adopted, it's only useful for smooth, round surfaces.

I would actually expect based on past time frames that MS will announce the 360 successor in 2010 after the Christmas season, to be released either very late 2010 or 2011.

Impressive video with Cevat Yerli himself presenting the Cry Engine 3 on the PS3.

It's a little laggy sometimes but still impressive especially at the end of the video.

Crytek is really a strong actor, very talentuous, in gaming industry.

According to the video, "the plan is for end september" for a launch.

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

You're looking in the wrong places :) DX11 supports higher order surfaces such as Bezier curves to describe objects for tessellation.

Microsoft Presentation

You can then use various subdivision techniques like Catmull-Clark in your hull shader. It works on quad meshes, one of the new primitives in DX11.

Catmull-Clark
DX11 Tessellation Overview



It's much worse than that, Truform just blindly tries to smooth everything out. Which obviously is not what you want. That was one of the big reasons it wasn't adopted, it's only useful for smooth, round surfaces.

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Nice reading, thanks!

But I still can't see where it says you will need two sets of models to enable tesselation. They working on a base model and applying subdivision to surfaces. Granted, after loading they are converted from triangle/rectangle polygons to desired data format before being transformed by tesselation stage.

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Originally Posted by Stukov

I would actually expect based on past time frames that MS will announce the 360 successor in 2010 after the Christmas season, to be released either very late 2010 or 2011.

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Announcing a new one probably won't happen til after Natal is released.

2012-2013 is where everything is pointing fingers for the next next gen consoles and not including what Crytek is saying.

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Originally Posted by deathman20

What ridiculous licensing fee on multi disks?

Think they are a little more for it now since multiple companies are having issues getting it to fit on one disk and well really I don't find an issue with it as long as I can install it to my HDD.
Only way MS will release a new console is when its time for its next gen one. They won't toss in a BR or even license the defunked HD-DVD just to get more capacity and leave everyone else that owns the console in the dark. Gaming Devs will not alienate a good portion of its market by doing that.

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the fees on the 360 are $15 for the 1st disk then u add $15+5(x) for each additional disk so its $35 in fees for a 2 disk game and for 3 it would be $60. thats why except for square and MS u will never see a multi disk game. (and for the storage of a single layer blue ray thats $60)

and think of HD-dvd it would be great for a console, u would not beable to pirate with it since there are no disks in the consumer market and the printers should be cheap since the only ones using it is the chines gov

Aion was built around the Crytek engine, not sure if its the latest one or not.

http://aion-online.net/cryengine.php

Characters and enviroments look great. If this is a non DX11 version then I can't wait to see what it will look like.

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Originally Posted by Olivon

Impressive video with Cevat Yerli himself presenting the Cry Engine 3 on the PS3.

It's a little laggy sometimes but still impressive especially at the end of the video.

Crytek is really a strong actor, very talentuous, in gaming industry.

According to the video, "the plan is for end september" for a launch.

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it looked like there were alot of effects that need to be improved.
all the lights in the city section were somehow perfectly circular, looks like crap in my opinion.
shooting a tree gave off lots of big square chunks of wood, minor thing and easy to fix.
light from the vents in the tunnel that would come from the side should still have an effect on the view (not the gun and arms being brighter, but hdr type effects. think of driving with the sunset being on the side and how driving past trees would make it go from shaded to "in you face" and back rapidly).
the smoke on the boats at the end were too white and looked like steam, if it was steam it would have looked great, but it wasnt.
polygon counts changing quickly when standing just 20-30ft is so 1990s.

thats all

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Originally Posted by randomizer

Laws were made to be broken.

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Moore's Law is broken, Amdahl's Law rules now that a quad core with a stream array is the standard that these developers need to grapple with.

I think M$ will launch a new XBOX in 2011 that's if Sony don't screw with their plans which they should since it's very important to be the first one on the market,we saw that with X360 which in the one year gap until PS3 was launched became a product much more mature in development/games and install base coupled with the problems PS3 had made the console war between M$ and Sony finish prematurely.
Also I hope for the love of God that they will offer mouse/kb controls yeah the gamepads are good sometimes but in FPS/RTS they are wayyy too flimsy.
Either way it's good that the industry is focusing on optimizations now since for PC atleast we had some horrid ports/code.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

Aion was built around the Crytek engine, not sure if its the latest one or not.

http://aion-online.net/cryengine.php

Characters and enviroments look great. If this is a non DX11 version then I can't wait to see what it will look like.

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It's the original one and the only one that left me completely gobsmacked when I first laid eyes on it. :clap:

Everything else has been an evolution, especially performance :(

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Originally Posted by tdream

It's the original one and the only one that left me completely gobsmacked when I first laid eyes on it. :clap:

Everything else has been an evolution, especially performance :(

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Yeah its a very nice engine and its working very well with Aion, its very smooth, great detail and handles large numbers of people in a online enviroment very well. I had almost no lag at all when I played.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

Nice reading, thanks!

But I still can't see where it says you will need two sets of models to enable tesselation. They working on a base model and applying subdivision to surfaces. Granted, after loading they are converted from triangle/rectangle polygons to desired data format before being transformed by tesselation stage.

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It can't work that way. For tessellation your base model is much less complex than the in-game models we have today. If your base model for tessellation started off pretty complex then you get zero benefit from LOD scaling as objects move into the distance.

cevat, dont listen to those damn critics complaining about high system requirements for crysis!

first we were limited by slow old pcs, cause developers want to make sure games run on those old dustcatchers as well, now its even worse, games have to run on several year old CONSOLES... :shakes:

i really hope crytek thinks this over... if THEY dont bring out a blockbuster pc game that looks amazing before 2012, somebody else will... and take their place...

thats how crytek rose to begin with and took over id's place...

it makes since to me... idk why anyone disagrees with this... more than likely graphics will plateau for the most part except i expect them to get sharper and better optimized

Games have development times and aren't just completed overnight? Color me surprised. What else might the CEO of CryTek share with us, in his infinite wisdom? The color of the sky, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by soundood

may i suggest a google for moore's law?

here i done it for you :up: Moore's Law

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may I suggest you google DIMINISHING RETURNS?

its you typical dumbing down to the lowest.

my 4870x2 is out for RMA and I needed a video card so I had a crappy little X1300 handy I was able to play Crysis at 800x600 but it sucked.

I hunted around some more and found my old NV 8800GT- 512 card and could play Crysis at 1280x1024 very smooth and it looked nice.

The game allowed for lower systems but if you got the POWER my 4870x2 Rocks at higher levels.

So why can't the consoles just use a lower setting and let the big boys use the higher ones??? why dumb it down??

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Originally Posted by iboomalot

its you typical dumbing down to the lowest.

my 4870x2 is out for RMA and I needed a video card so I had a crappy little X1300 handy I was able to play Crysis at 800x600 but it sucked.

I hunted around some more and found my old NV 8800GT- 512 card and could play Crysis at 1280x1024 very smooth and it looked nice.

The game allowed for lower systems but if you got the POWER my 4870x2 Rocks at higher levels.

So why can't the consoles just use a lower setting and let the big boys use the higher ones??? why dumb it down??

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exactly... thats what i dont get... since the past years games get worse and worse as in hardware requirements dropping so even entry level systems can play them at max settings... what gives? if an entry level system can play it at max, then its not max details... no way...

thats why we see so many people modding games now and importing propper high res textures and playing around with the config files to improve shaddow resolutions and view distance etc... cause the game devs simply stop providing propper max setting options in the games... ffs we even have to play with config files to get AA working on some games now... :stick:

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Originally Posted by saaya

exactly... thats what i dont get... since the past years games get worse and worse as in hardware requirements dropping so even entry level systems can play them at max settings... what gives? if an entry level system can play it at max, then its not max details... no way...

thats why we see so many people modding games now and importing propper high res textures and playing around with the config files to improve shaddow resolutions and view distance etc... cause the game devs simply stop providing propper max setting options in the games... ffs we even have to play with config files to get AA working on some games now... :stick:

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Ugh, yeah... Wolfenstein doesn't support AA :eek:... A Q3 2009 game that wont support AA!
That's priority for the consoles in game development for ya...

Most multi-platform games will have three stupid options in game as you said. If you want something else you will need to mess around with the ini files... (Luckily, most games are using UE3, which allows that)

A different scenario is software blocking features, like AA for ATI cards in the new batman game (Forcing it will work).

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Originally Posted by XS2K

I think M$ will launch a new XBOX in 2011

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With Project Natal launching next year on the 360?

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Originally Posted by Pontos

Ugh, yeah... Wolfenstein doesn't support AA :eek:... A Q3 2009 game that wont support AA!

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Was the same with Dead Space, used some kind of console friendly software AA :down: Still a damn good game though.

If you want to get AA you could do some fancy work similar what someone did in Crysis. Edited the INI file, or in Crysis case edited width, and height inside the console and increased it to be 4x the screen res typically and bam, True 4x AA. Course im sure there is a good hit in performance.