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Abomination
Plastic Tub
Lexan Sheet
12L Livestock Laxative | Cherry Flavored Antacids
The Sled
Screws | Misc Fans
Eyeballs
Two Lexan Cylinders | One Copper Slug | LHe Router
Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P | ATI Radeon HD 4890 | AMD Phenom II X4 XXX BE
2 Antec Slot Fans
PCI Express Extender
L SATA Connectors
Maimed DVI Cable
LHe | LN2 Simultaneous CPU Cooling [?First Time Ever?]
8.15.09 | Live Feed Here
signs up for a live feed
wow. :clap:
Would love to see that! :cool:
That's going to be interesting!
Looks like this is gonna be fun :D
What the ... ?!? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 64NOMIS
This is going to be awesome :).
I'm glad it's a weekend!
You should put count-down timer in the first post Simon ;)
L SATA Connectors?????? CANT WAIT!
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/p8146254.jpg
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/p8146288.jpg
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/p8146282.jpg
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http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/p8146240.jpg
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/p8146238.jpg
That's what I figured :) Nice looking rig, easy way to solve the condensation issues.
Everything worked first time; bench stable indefinitely, we ran over 5 hours.
Mineral oil is filled all the way up to the lexan top. Last second, we decided to use two PCI Express extenders to get the GPU on top; the problem was fit, would have prefered the heat of the GPU within the Mineral oil bath. Worked fine with the GPU above.
Quakecon attendies played the new Wolfenstein, Quake at 5.6GHz.
AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE | Good Stability @ 5.94 GHz | Guest overclocker The Nemesis who was kind enough to supply Everclear.
If we had to swap out processor or motherboard I would have cried.
Saturday - The Abomination tortured with LHe. More 965 runs.
Yeah I have heard about the event there from Aaron, you guys are having a blast !!
Thanks for posting the pic's Simon !
Nice work there :) hope you guys get some greeeeeeeeeeat scores
Finally we are back to basics!
Mineral oil as an insulator/coolant :up:
At first I looked and thought - why they using frying pan to host motherboard?
Great pics! Simon please bring some more of these and scores of course!
That looks awesome! Any particular reason for using a Gaygabite mobo?
damn that looks awesome
Sweet Job Aaron and Nemesis, you guys are rocking the house there LOL :up: :clap:
Because it works 100% all the time ;) save for operator error etc insulation lets go....Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Actually one of my pretested boards :)
thanks for sharing those images :up:
Aww, you killed it. I was about to purchase a 790X-UD4P. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
On the other hand, that pot looks beastly.
Dont let that stop ya...The UD4P and UD5P DDR2/DDR3 mobos are solid...Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
Beep,,If anyone here Knows about Gigabyte that would be CHEW*:up:
64NOMIS........................WOW............fun fun fun:cool:
Excellent work Simon, loved the pictures.
Hehe, like gOtVoltage said, don't let that stop you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep2
Just because i'm not too fond of GB doesn't mean they're bad.
chew* does well on 'm too.
Oh, and they're cheap. ;)
zeus the asus is decent in certain tasks/situations but in certain .cfgs and under ln2 the devil itself is unleashed and even the best in the business have trouble making it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
The gigabyte just works and is not a waste of ln2 then again I kept putting in my input to the big guys at giga till I was satisfied with the results ;)
I don't have contacts at asus so I could not help out, I just made a contact however no clue if they can or are willing to fix certain bugs that show up cold as I am preety sure some of it is hardware related.....
Fwiw I have scanned the hardware on crosshair 2 and the problematic parts still exist and in the same exact locations...maybe they fixed them, maybe they didn't.
Looks like you guys had a lot of fun, pity I couldn't come to see it live. :(
Thanks for your pics! :up:
I got some info from Macci!
He and Kingpin did some 06 runs at 6600MHz on cores and 4840MHz on NB. They scored 38327 at that point :clap:
I am sure they will push the setup even more. Score is not that good, so there might be some issues. I am just speculating, cause my info is very limited.
They also did 7088MHz on the video, but they did not manage to get validation at that point.
Push it guys! 7.1GHz and 39K is the target :up:
Thanks SF3D for fresh info!
These clocks rocks! :p:
Thanks for the update SF3D!
Sounds great!
Nice score and crazy NB speed, but sounds like there have been some efficiency issues. What happened to live feed in this thread :shrug:
Any pictures, video's or updates?
6.6GHz 06
nice :D
8/14/09
The Abomination was our Phenom II 965 BE Stock rig and we were focused on making it work, frequency, and audience participation :-) The Abomination was born at about 2PM and we were able to immediately begin to push the system and made a number of runs trying to push 3DMark06 past 6GHz, ultimatly best run was at 5.94 GHz with a run on the CPU test in the 7K's. Instead of benching 3D, we then scaled back to 5.6 and played the new Wolfenstein and a couple other games with the audience daisy chaining their games for a couple hours. The system was a champ with only one unexpected reset and we powered down at the close of the vendor area at 7PM. I've been working on the Abomination rig for a few months, just working out the details. The star is Aaron's pot, but I am still proud for small touches and the rare, if ever seen exhibition of LN2 with mineral oil. It was a sweet looking rig and it was great to have Nemesis show up and spontaneously man the guns. The 965 showed well and I wished we could have spent more time running benchmarks, but it fulfilled its mission and entertained hundreds at Quakecon.
Sami and Vince worked for hours trying to get a good motherboard and CPU combination and ran through 5 boards and several chips before we closed down at 7PM. 8 massive gas (3x Helium Gas for backpressure; 2xLN2, 3xLHe) cylinders had to be stored outside on the docks so every night, contributing significantly to the overall level of daily exhaustion...
8/15/09
We started setup at 9AM; Vince & Sami had the Gigabyte board on a stock 965 primed and ready. We had to move to the main stage and took both the Abomination and the standard rig. The Abomination died in the move, and any thoughts of serious 3D benching on LN2 or doing an LHe run on that setup were dashed. But the Gigabyte rig was great for the mainstage show where Sami & Vince demonstrated AMD Overdrive and 965 performance under LN2 LIVE on the Venom pot from K|ngp|n Cooling.
We moved the rigs back to the main hall and began to prep for LHe. At that point Vince & Sami felt the Gigabyte board was being to finicky on Lhe and we decided to grab lunch and go to Fry's where we picked up two more of the ASUS M4A79T Deluxe boards. Sami & Vince began running LHe at 5PM and blew through 250L in about 3 hours on a single, rock solid rig - made it look easy in the 11th hour of Quakecon...very nice audience photos here: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=1517103
I see 9000 CPU score, quite shocking, nicely done guys :clap:
Not really, me and sami didn't put much thought about the other parameters in the system. We got carried away with pushing the hell out of the CPU and NB frequencies in 06' :D We didnt use the helium until the very last part of the show after a bunch of days on a hot dock, so I think at least 1/3 of it was lost before we even used it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
It was really about putting on a good live demo, and we finished with such a bang at the last hour in front of quakecon crowd. It was a riot. The 48070x2's were only at 800/920 LOL. First run was over 38k with default card clocks and we only got about 3 more full good runs :p:
BTW I love finnish Metal :up:
Oh yes, and we managed to pass the CPU tests at this speed (all cores):Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
http://img.techpowerup.org/090816/6635small.png
(click for full screenie - low score / bad run though)
3DMark06 score at 6600 / 4840 + 2x4870 @ 800/930:
http://img.techpowerup.org/090816/38327fa.png
Compare URL
we passed 06 at 6.6GHz close to 10 times during this session (some runs at default GFX clocks). the setup was solid as a rock on LHe. the OS could use some tweaking though... :D
picked up a pair of M4A79T boards during lunch break and Vince prepared them both with coating. Vince set up the primary rig with Aaron's LHe "Muy Frio" cooler, I prepared the backup rig w/ Vince's new Phenom II pot. Since the main rig turned out to be a perfect setup we'll have to save and use the backup rig at some later date ;)
highest CPUZ capture (with good old mspaint -method!):
http://img.techpowerup.org/090816/6930242.png
we had 7025MHz on the screen for a few seconds but didn't quite manage to capture it for screenshot / validation.
we also saw 7088MHz briefly - need to dig it up from the video camera
the LHe Grande Finale was one of the coolest if not the coolest OC session I've ever been a part of. Great Teamwork, Great audience, Great results and we even managed to get some proper music on at the end of the session :D
oh wow
you guys did great
i love the fact you kept pushing it until the right combo appeared
it's very easy losing faith when you are on your 6th or 7th setup all tired and :banana::banana::banana::banana: tryin to get something going hehehe
great work and 9K CPU score on AMD is bloody great :yepp::up:
lol i like this photo
look at simon(assuming its you?!?) and vince :rofl:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7874/p8140088.jpg
found it! :D
http://img.techpowerup.org/090816/7088f.png
:clap:
Grats on the 7k screen, the process has come a long way. Good that hear it all came together nicely.
Nemesis looks asleep at the wheel in that pic dinos.
yeah he's doing the "look mum no (eyes)hands" trick :D
Was it the flash, or was it the Everclear?Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
Really, hats off to Nemesis. We needed another hand on deck and there he was. Thanks for the Everclear, thanks for keeping the Abomination alive, and thanks for tracking down that blessed ASUS M4A79T Deluxe that put its cousins to shame with an amazing three hours continuous on LHe. Golden Board.
It was awesome meeting everyone! Great experience! Most of the Abomination still lives and it has really inspired some ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by 64NOMIS
That was the first time I've clocked an AMD rig since August '06 and it was really simple. The Phenom II X4 965BE is a great cpu and looks to be an easy 5.5GHz 1.6v on dice/ln2.
a few selected Quakecon '09 moments:
http://img.techpowerup.org/090817/lhe8.jpg
(who's hiding behind the smoke??)
http://img.techpowerup.org/090817/lhe5.jpg
(single PSU rig)
http://img.techpowerup.org/090817/lhe3.jpg
(temp during a 3D06 run)
http://img.techpowerup.org/090817/lhe7.jpg
("towel + tshirt + heatgun" -trick kept it alive for hours!)
http://img.techpowerup.org/090817/simon2.jpg
(going for 7G!)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ine=1250483340
(click for larger picture)
Team: k|ngp|n, macci, The Nemesis, Aaron Schradin & 64NOMIS
My favorite PIC
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/IMG_0087.jpg
Great work Sami and Vince!
7088MHz would have been nice validated speed :)
Awesome! With a little more tweaking it would have beaten the current WR! You guys tried to be kind to Andre not to beat it perhaps? :D
How come all CPU-Z screens show 955BE instead of 965BE? Is it due to an old version of CPU-Z?
Yeah, numbers are impressive and as we all know it's already a big success to get such a good results in the middle of a big event like QuakeCon :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by k|ngp|n
Good job everyone. :up:
PS. Who left Vista's AERO enabled! :ROTF: (ok, I can also see macci's antivir tweak there :D)
nice job guys :), next with x4 975 ,-) . Quakecon was good, i watch a bit tournament too, but my like favorites FoX and Cypher won not :(....
Finally some more info!! :D
Great achievements all involved!
I really would like to see how mineral oil + LHe plays together. Maybe next time Simon?
Next session I guess will be DX11 cards + 975BE ... Can't wait :)
fantastic work congrats all round.
while your benching do the temps of the mineral oil rise much would you see any benefit chilling it in some way.
have u ever tested the gd70 a mineral oil bath (since it is hard to insulate)Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
and not to be vain but did this post inspire the ln2 lhe or was it planned like that
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=18
and how much are those clear pots are they cheaper to make than the copper
wow great show. Good work :p: 7088mhz!!
www.ln2cooling.comQuote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/img_4505.jpg
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/img_4508.jpg
http://solotko.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/img_4515.jpg
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Chemists ,-) ?:D ...
What cooling this? Strange pot...
It's the clear pot made by Aaron Shradin from ln2cooling.com!Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
Simon, I want more pics! :D
Sorry it took so long to post, but I've been trying to get my feet back underneath me since QuakeCon!
A little more about the AMD Abomination
The Abomination was a project system that is best labeled as "Revision 1" There are so many things to do differently/try! Though, anyone could be successful in replicating the simplicity of "Revision 1."
The "Revision 1" was well thought out, and it served its purpose perfectly! But everything can always be improved and more specialized. That being said, you always have to start somewhere and give the ideas a try -- regardless of level of refinement.
So, the primary purpose of longer-term overclocking proof of concept was a success! I think that the secondary purpose of the Abomination is to charge the system with simplistic innovation and give others a jump start to some interesting approaches.
Clear is SEXY
The pot used on Abomination 1.0 was an LN2Cooling Phantom evaporator (revision 1). Although, any evaporator/pot could be used! We used the the clear dual wall option that Nomis and I collaborated on, as it "matched" the transparency theme!
Forewarning: The transparency feature is a bit complex to use, a tad costly due to all the threading, materials, and such -- but it is VERY neat to watch! It's great for shows similar to QuakeCon or, overclocking parties. I would only recommend it for such. For hardcore benching of LN2, there is no real benefit. Also, to answer a fore-posted question, the evaporator is STILL copper at the base! It's not ALL clear.... :) The alternative clear materials to use as the base are WAY to expensive. (more to come on that later...)
Why a dual wall evaporator?
The original idea of the dual wall design came as a byproduct from an overclocking conference call with AMD last year, where it was mentioned that a dual wall evaporator could allow for the outer wall to be "buffered/insulated" with Ln2 (liquid nitrogen), and the main chamber could be charged with LHe4 (Liquid Helium). When Nomis presented the need for a clear pot -- we knew what we had to do! We had to use the dual wall concept with some sort of insulation material -- which just happened to be Everclear alcohol (due to it's extremely low freezing point).
If there had been more time and cooling fluids -- we could have tried the LHe4 on the system by using the same setup. The standard setup of the LN2 pot has the necessary features to support efficient use of the LHe4. There is a conversion kit to increase that efficiency.
Using the Abomination on LHe4?!?!?
So, in the case of converting the LN2 Abomination configuration, to the LHe4 Abomination configuration, we would have ALL (Nomis, Sami, Kingpin, Nemesis) had to take turns sipping the freezing cold Everclear from the outer wall of the evaporator. (that is a joke, the temperatures would have destroyed your teeth/mouth/esophagus). After vacating the outer chamber of alcohol, we would have then filled that outer wall with Liquid nitrogen and then gone full bore with the liquid helium in the center.... Hoping that we would be able to cool the processor even further!!! Or see frozen LN2? :rofl:
Not sure what would have happened...
Maybe a world record? Dunno!
Maybe a small recreation of the Exxon Valdez? if the container cracked... Dunno!
Maybe another fire? Dunno?
Maybe another COMPLETE power outage in the BYOC area of QuakeCon? Most definitely!
Who knows what would have happened?
But, if we had done it at QuakeCon -- you can only bet it would have been crazy, fun, and "Sick!" (all useage of "Sick" needs to accredited back to the owner of the phrase -- Kingpin).
Special People, Special Thanks
Special thanks goes out to AMD for being willing to try the crazy, abstract, brilliant, and sometimes stupid ideas that come up. They seemingly like to encourage innovation in the community -- regardless of whether it benefits them directly.
Special thanks also goes out to Nomis and his suspicious ability to adequately pace revelation of innovation. And all of us are in debt an enormous amount to ALL of those at QuakeCon who volunteered to make the event possible!!!
More crazy and cool computer stuff is coming!!! But, all good things in due time...
-Aaron
So, it was brought to my attention that I had no signature... I have attempted to fix this issue.
Nice looking setup there :clap:
I love my Phantom Pot as I can run it in either config, with center tube for shows and events, or without the inner tube for benching. It works perfect either way.
Plus I have the monster tall version HAHA :rofl:
Genghis, since the temperature differential is much lower on the outer wall in the dual wall configuration with Alcohol in the outer chamber, I would argue that we have significantly less condensation and no need to insulate the pot. We have not done the side by side test. Indeed, that is one of the factors that made it ideal for the mineral oil experiment - less icing in the vicinity of the lower pot diminishing the risk of voltage regulator & PWM failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Khan
Or stated differently
The Alcohol is the thing in which we catch the cold and diminish the icing...
We are all lucky to have Genghis working on CPU coolers - he has advanced the state of the art and created new directions in cooling.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
A girls best friend? :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Khan
(Diamond)
Diamond used to be the girls' best friend. I think that, in the future, it will be the computer/electronic's best friend. How near future? I have NO clue. I'll just say that I've already began design and testing...
However, I see diamond/carbon only being useful at ambient temperatures!
: DISCLAIMER: This is a playful example
So, that being said -- if I lived in a far away space station, on the "cold" side -- I would be using an AMD, non-cold bugging processor, something like a Phenom2 X4, with a Copper cooler, with a circulating LN2 loop, at 6.0Ghz, 24-7. If my room in the space station got moved over to the "warm" side, i'd swap my cooler out from the copper one to a "diamond" one... Besides, I would be "baller" enough to afford a diamond grill for my processor if I had a apartment on the space station anyway.
: END DISCLAIMER:
The bottom line, copper likes to be COLD. And the more pure the copper is, the more it likes to pass things around... like heat, electricity, etc. The downside is that special copper is pricey and horrible to machine. But, back to conductivity -- At room temperatures copper is great, but there are better things. It's just unfortunate that they are out of the realm of economical at this point in time.
Now to Nomis' comment.
Insulation is not perfect. It is merely a resistor/buffer. In the case of the alcohol buffer for the Abomination, we are merely slowing down the inevitable. If you recall, I was pouring TON's of watts of energy into the alcohol to keep it clear during the event. There will always be a gradient. The only difference will be the distance that gradient has to spread across.
In the event of a conventional pot, it's just one wall and some insulation. In the case of the Phantom pot, it's one clear wall, followed by another clear liquid wall, followed by another clear wall. It doesn't eliminate the challenges of insulation. But, it does make for an excellent visual, longer-term insulation than "normal", and some incredible pyrotechnics.
If you want to trade the visual for more performance, replace the walls with the same overall thickness of styrofoam... Or, ideally, we'd seal the outer chamber, pull a vacuum, and insulate without the alcohol... But, that's not really economical either... Or is it economical -- just not practical?
Computer cooling (using ambient gasses and fluids) and Overcooling (using subzero C fluids/gasses) is very advanced in technology. However, at the same time, it's still very remedial.
There reason I say that is because it's like everything else. Manufacturing approaches and technologies become more cost effective and ideas that once were unobtainable become more mainstream ever day.
I'm excited to see where computer cooling and overcooling goes! I think i have some cool ideas that might put me in the front seat of that proverbial rollercoaster. If not, I'm still content to ride along with everyone else and see where it leads.
Since it's not my "day job", I try these ideas out when people give me the chance. As I get the ideas done and tested, i'll post them at Ln2Cooling.com. With any luck, I'll get a chance to do the following here soon:
- economical dice evaporator
- test chassis
- chipset coolers
- continued development of the existing Phantom pot assy and base
- cold-bug compatible LN2 evaporator
- revision 2 of the LHe4 evaporator?
- concept design cooler for "next years..."
- release of my long awaited water block (i'm the only one that has been waiting for it...)
I already have the designs done for most of them... I just need to cut them. Most of the designs use a CNC lathe to keep things cheap. A few of them obviously use the CNC mill due to the fact they are sorta orthogonal in nature. Some of them are already up at LN2Cooling.
Those are just the things I feel comfortable disclosing. But, as I get more time away from the job that "pays the bills", I'll spend more time on this more fun endeavor of computer cooling and design.
Or, maybe someone like Koolance, Kingpin Cooling, DangerDen, or someone of the like can sponser/partner me to do some of this work/research.
Either way, i'll get it done. :)
-Aaron
thx for answer, im now a little bit smarter :)
btw, its under NDA get some info about C3 revision Phenoms?:)
is there a practical use for machines like this? i mean could you put it to work folding or something to help cure cancer or something like that?
With a little bit more work, I think it could be very useful for gaming and more worthy causes, as you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Lude
There have been submerged systems in the server market, in the past. If I recall correctly -- it allowed more density in the racks due to the increased efficiency over air cooling.
Abomination 2.0 | May 2010 | Exodous
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by 64NOMIS
...
whau, nice. Nomis, and with LHe? And with Thubans?:)
yesssss!
Man.. feels so far away, looking forward to the show:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by 64NOMIS
Thuban abomination? Shaweet!
wow, that's weird
Wow Simon I thought you got buried under a pile of pampers........or maybe caught up in the Matrix lol
I like that symbol/figure......looks like something out of Halflif series or L4D.........kinda looks like an angel lol
Just an idea, no idea if it has any merit. Genghis Khan you said you were dumping tons of watts of energy into the alcohol. Was this just to keep it from freezing as well as clear?(I haven't seen alcohol at low temps so I assume it goes opaque as it freezes)
I was curious if you could replace the alcohol with Fluorinert(FC-84 seems best -95 C freezing point only marginally higher than alcohol) and submerge the graphics card in it(along with the rest of the mobo?). Overclock the the graphics card to keep it warm enough and from freezing). I just see that graphics card there begging to use some of that waste cooling being dissapated.
EvilBlitz,Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilBlitz
Alcohol is only in the outer wall of the Phantom pot. Mineral oil forms the bath for the motherboard. Fluorinert would work too but costs a lot more; total cost of the Abomination chasis, sans the Phanom pot, is pocket change.
The ambient temperature of the Mineral oil was a bit below room temperature. It would be fine to submerge the GPU. I thought it would be cool to have it sitting on top and there were fit issues with the tub. Yes, the heat would be useful for maintaining temps for Motherboard components.
Heat was applied in the form of warm air to the outside of the Phanom pot to diminish frosty glass for aesthetics and to keep the Alcohol from freezing (though we are not sure if, under normal operating conditions, it would have frozen).