Xtreme way of fixing laptop graphics card!

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07-25-2009, 08:37 AM
rintamarotta

Xtreme way of fixing laptop graphics card!

Well i think many of you people have heard of how cold can sometimes fix memory sticks and how extreme heat (200 degrees) can fix motherboards and some other components.

I tought of trying the heat to fix my laptops GeForce 8600M GS graphics card.

It did give alot of graphics errors at even underclocked to 200mhz core.

I heated up my oven to approx 200 degrees of celcius and did put my graphics card in there with some screws holding it so components dont touch metal inside oven.

After i took graphics card out of oven, i did let it to cool down for 30mins and later put graphics card back to my laptop.

So far it have worked at slight overclock without problems and 0 graphics errors.

This must be something to do with re-melting the cracked joints in BGA balls or something like that but for me it fixed a graphics card and i dont need to buy 320euro replacement from my laptop manufactuer.

Anyone else have tryed this method? and if you have please give your results.

Sorry my crappy english.

I have 2 of these laptops, luckily other one have never needed any kind of fixing, temps seem be quite low on that one.
07-29-2009, 09:51 AM
diredesire

Yeah, lots of people have tried an oven rework, it helps re-bond the BGA balls, like you said:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1421792
07-29-2009, 12:49 PM
ownage

W0W, xtreme, I love to try that sometime.
07-29-2009, 01:08 PM
diredesire

Yeah, IMO it's due to the new RoHS solder(s). They require a higher temp to melt, and they tend to create cold joints. I find that lead free solders just don't flow as well.
07-29-2009, 03:35 PM
HDCHOPPER

Great !! .. now if the woman doesn't see me :D

My 3870X2 just started getting Big green squares & little orange ones ..

It's wourth a yelling at huh :rofl:

I have done the mem freeze thing and it worked soooooooo
07-29-2009, 03:40 PM
diredesire

Just be warned, you might have some weird smelling fumes if you decide to bake your card, I'd read the hard forum thread just to get an idea of the process, then go for it. It really is a relatively low risk project, just follow the directions ;)

If you have a hot air rework station, you could turn it into a 5 minute job ;)
07-30-2009, 08:28 PM
shoota

would this wok for a cpu? i think mine is bad
07-30-2009, 08:32 PM
slim142

Wait, are all laptop videocards removable?
I have a 8600M GT on my G1S, afaik, videocards were like "soldered" into the motherboard? I guess I was wrong?
07-30-2009, 09:22 PM
diredesire

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoota

would this wok for a cpu? i think mine is bad

Typically no, the die isn't joined to the package via BGA. If the CPU is soldered onto the board, then the same principle will apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim142

Wait, are all laptop videocards removable?
I have a 8600M GT on my G1S, afaik, videocards were like "soldered" into the motherboard? I guess I was wrong?

Yeah, this is exactly what we're talking about. The solder balls in between the GPU and the motherboard go bad (at times).
07-30-2009, 10:14 PM
surfinhicdude

I just tried this on an LCD that started flickering on and off a few months ago. Took the power supply board out and heated the back of it with a hair dryer for 4 or 5 minutes and now it's working great. Great find! :clap:

Going to try it out on my 6600gt and 8800gt tomorrow.
07-30-2009, 10:19 PM
punx223

some motherboard gpu's are removable...

some are actual cards... heck i have a nvidi 8600 or 8800 m sitting on my desk, its almost like a desktop card minus the fact it plugs to teh mobo with a plastic socket...

also I have revived a few motherboards by running them in a hot shower for 30 min... then baking in oven for 3 hrs or so
07-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Russian

Sure hope you were using lead free mobos shannon, or else state of CA will get on your ass!
07-30-2009, 11:17 PM
punx223

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russian

Sure hope you were using lead free mobos shannon, or else state of CA will get on your ass!

ummmmm... sure..... yeah thats for sure.... what kind of idiot do you think i am. :ROTF:
07-31-2009, 02:02 AM
biglipzit

you bathe with your hardware? Shannon that's ummm lol... I will take my video card for a hot shower tomorrow =P
07-31-2009, 02:17 AM
Mic

interesting, got some problems with my laptop video card too, so might be worth a try.
For how long did you leave it in the oven?
08-01-2009, 04:39 PM
rintamarotta

Quote:

Originally Posted by diredesire

Yeah, IMO it's due to the new RoHS solder(s). They require a higher temp to melt, and they tend to create cold joints. I find that lead free solders just don't flow as well.

100% Accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diredesire

Just be warned, you might have some weird smelling fumes if you decide to bake your card, I'd read the hard forum thread just to get an idea of the process, then go for it. It really is a relatively low risk project, just follow the directions ;)

If you have a hot air rework station, you could turn it into a 5 minute job ;)

Yeah i succest proper ventilation nearby your oven, it maybe get bit hmm.. smelly :D

Or other way to do this if you have proper BGA equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim142

Wait, are all laptop videocards removable?
I have a 8600M GT on my G1S, afaik, videocards were like "soldered" into the motherboard? I guess I was wrong?

Yes there is tons of laptops that have replaceaple graphics modules as they say it.
I have FSC 2528-22P laptop and it got the non-standard MXM-II version that i belive also punx223 have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by punx223

some motherboard gpu's are removable...

some are actual cards... heck i have a nvidi 8600 or 8800 m sitting on my desk, its almost like a desktop card minus the fact it plugs to teh mobo with a plastic socket...

also I have revived a few motherboards by running them in a hot shower for 30 min... then baking in oven for 3 hrs or so

You maybe have FSC 25xx series laptop? If not what laptop you got?
The plug is below pcb nearby hdmi, tv-out and vga connectors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDCHOPPER

Great !! .. now if the woman doesn't see me

My 3870X2 just started getting Big green squares & little orange ones ..

It's wourth a yelling at huh

I have done the mem freeze thing and it worked soooooooo

Not shure does ATI/AMD use same solder material in BGA balls as nVidia does but if its erroring out then you have nothing to lose but try it :), just make shure you have proper ventilation nerby oven it might get bit smelly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mic

interesting, got some problems with my laptop video card too, so might be worth a try.
For how long did you leave it in the oven?

10 Mins, but thats minium anything beatwean 10-15mins is ok, not shure how it effects if its longer.
08-07-2009, 09:00 PM
Ozzfest05

Arent PCB fumes bad for you lol
08-07-2009, 11:22 PM
Planet

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglipzit

you bathe with your hardware? Shannon that's ummm lol... I will take my video card for a hot shower tomorrow =P

I wouldnt do anything Shannon would do. That n00b breaks more hardware than anybody else I know
08-08-2009, 01:45 AM
TopFuel1471

What is a BGA ball and why would it crack?
08-11-2009, 08:09 PM
diredesire

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeltedDuron

This does really work. I bought a dead cheap HP Compaq V6000 laptop for the workshop that was dead. I did some reading and everyone said it was the GFX chip from NV.

I took a 340c hot air gun too it for about 5 mins max and then left it. Im currently installing Windows 7 and all seams okay.

Thank you for this tip, im really happy and impressed with my self!

Yep, there are several HP laptops that are NOTORIOUS (DV2000 series, DV6000, 9000[IIRC]) for this issue. I just repaired a laptop for a friend by doing basically the same thing. A hot air gun will do it, 5 mins might be a little high, actually :eek:

It's been a really big NV issue from what I've read, other mfgrs are experiencing the same thing, but 80% of the issues I've seen are NV.
08-14-2009, 07:12 AM
Mic

Thanks alot rintamarotta!

This insane sounding fix actually worked, after a bit of writting with dell the best solution they could come up with was having a technician replace the card with a similar one that worked, pretty expensive solution though.
I kept getting green squares all over the screen each time I booted and it would only boot in safe mode. Now after a nice trip in the oven the video card works just fine again.
08-15-2009, 02:22 AM
tiro_uspsss

:bows: xtreme! 'nuff said! :up:
08-25-2009, 06:06 PM
my87csx481

I think I already know the answer, but I'll ask anyway.

I have a P35 board that started freezing up, then started rebooting randomly.

Ran memtest, errors even at stock with two different kits. Tested cpu and both kits on a different board, no problems.

I'm guessing Northbridge/memory controller is cooked.

As far as I'm concerned, I've got nothing to lose but, do you think baking the board (or maybe a heat gun on the northbridge) will help?:shrug:
08-28-2009, 10:47 AM
rintamarotta

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87csx481

I think I already know the answer, but I'll ask anyway.

I have a P35 board that started freezing up, then started rebooting randomly.

Ran memtest, errors even at stock with two different kits. Tested cpu and both kits on a different board, no problems.

I'm guessing Northbridge/memory controller is cooked.

As far as I'm concerned, I've got nothing to lose but, do you think baking the board (or maybe a heat gun on the northbridge) will help?:shrug:

Depends if the BGA ball array have some cracks, but its worth of a try, like you have someting to lose with allready broken motherboard.

So, put it to the oven allready, damn it... :D
08-28-2009, 02:19 PM
topdog5050

nice share there buddy ill have to try it sometime.
08-30-2009, 09:53 AM
wildeh

I guess I'll try this too on my display-dead Acer Aspire. The graphics chip is non removable. I wonder can I bake the whole mobo or should I take off some components first?

Or should I just get a hairdryer?

edit: and by the way, any idea on identifying which chip is the graphics chip?
08-30-2009, 12:52 PM
diredesire

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildeh

I guess I'll try this too on my display-dead Acer Aspire. The graphics chip is non removable. I wonder can I bake the whole mobo or should I take off some components first?

Or should I just get a hairdryer?

edit: and by the way, any idea on identifying which chip is the graphics chip?

Do you know what kind of graphics chipset you have? If it is nVidia or ATi, they'll be very clearly labeled.

You don't necessarily have to remove anything, but anything EASILY removed (especially plastic) is something you'll want to do.

A hair dryer probably won't get up to temps.
08-30-2009, 04:21 PM
DavyBoy

this is crazy!!!
08-30-2009, 09:54 PM
wildeh

Quote:

Originally Posted by diredesire

Do you know what kind of graphics chipset you have? If it is nVidia or ATi, they'll be very clearly labeled.

You don't necessarily have to remove anything, but anything EASILY removed (especially plastic) is something you'll want to do.

A hair dryer probably won't get up to temps.

I got now my copy of service manual. Seems that the chip is hidden from the eye until the whole mobo is removed.

What concerns me most is should I take off the processor or not or what components are may be damaged by the heat.

But thanks!
08-31-2009, 12:16 AM
diredesire

definitely take the CPU out, not completely necessary, but you have to "screw" the cpu in, you might melt the socket a little bit with the lateral torquing
08-31-2009, 01:26 AM
wildeh

Now this must be the weirdest thing I've ever done, but here I go, mobo in the oven :-)

During the dissasembly there was some tape covering part of the mobo. I tried removing it, but it tore some chip out of the mobo. I tried to reattach the tape and the chip, but since I've got no equipment for soldering such small parts I may have just screwed the mobo :-(

EDIT: Ok, motherboard baked and screwed now. The plastic tape I was first going to take off, but did not, got curled and detached several chips with it and somewhy the RJ-45 port (LAN) got loose (unrelated to the tape). Dammit. I guess the mobo just has to be disposed now.

EDIT2: Seems like the PCMCIA slot I was too lazy to remove got some damage because of it's plastic parts. But well, never used that anyway.
08-31-2009, 03:29 AM
rintamarotta

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildeh

I got now my copy of service manual. Seems that the chip is hidden from the eye until the whole mobo is removed.

What concerns me most is should I take off the processor or not or what components are may be damaged by the heat.

But thanks!

You definetly want strip it completly since you dont want anything else exept motherboard when you put something to oven, with hairdryer you want just to see the component you want to refresh the bga ball joints from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildeh

Now this must be the weirdest thing I've ever done, but here I go, mobo in the oven :-)

During the dissasembly there was some tape covering part of the mobo. I tried removing it, but it tore some chip out of the mobo. I tried to reattach the tape and the chip, but since I've got no equipment for soldering such small parts I may have just screwed the mobo :-(

EDIT: Ok, motherboard baked and screwed now. The plastic tape I was first going to take off, but did not, got curled and detached several chips with it and somewhy the RJ-45 port (LAN) got loose (unrelated to the tape). Dammit. I guess the mobo just has to be disposed now.

EDIT2: Seems like the PCMCIA slot I was too lazy to remove got some damage because of it's plastic parts. But well, never used that anyway.

Well, oven can remelt the broken joint in that chip.

Perfect example why you want completly strip off any exes plastic and metal parts but for the tape i think it allways need be removed but gently making shure you dont strip any needed parts off from pcb.
08-31-2009, 03:50 AM
wildeh

Well, it was an educating experience. Guess I put the laptop into closet until I find a cheap soldering iron and then try to fool with it again. Perhaps the story continues :-)
08-31-2009, 05:44 AM
rintamarotta

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildeh

Well, it was an educating experience. Guess I put the laptop into closet until I find a cheap soldering iron and then try to fool with it again. Perhaps the story continues :-)

I see 10euros for cheap soldering iron in local store :)

And yeah, we all learn by doing these things, anyway this is Xtreme Systems and we do it that way :D
08-31-2009, 08:44 AM
diredesire

take a pic of the damage, i'd like to see which parts were moved. If you have them,all, it shouldn't be too big of a deal...
JD
09-01-2009, 10:46 PM
wildeh

Diredesire, you can get the idea from this pic. I can get a sharper pic, if you think you can tell more from it.

Pic: Plastic tape curled in oven and detached some components

You can see on the left edge of the plastic one component clearly, then there are about 5 other smaller components.
09-06-2009, 10:18 AM
rintamarotta

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildeh

Diredesire, you can get the idea from this pic. I can get a sharper pic, if you think you can tell more from it.

Pic: Plastic tape curled in oven and detached some components

You can see on the left edge of the plastic one component clearly, then there are about 5 other smaller components.

I think we need sharper pic, i see only 2 components there that supposed to be in motherboard but i dont see any marks on motherboard side.