DDC Pump Version Differences & Evolution

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05-29-2009, 05:00 PM
dsumanik

DDC Pump Version Differences & Evolution

I was just wondering if anyone out there had done any comparisions of the different version of DDC pump that have come out over the years. It would be interesting to develop a quick reference to see the actual gains/losses by the different models, even with the stock tops just to see the performance difference on the pump alone.

As far as I know this is the DDC model family??

DDC 1 = 12W Max
DDC 2 = 18W Max
DDC 3.1 = 12W Max
DDC 3.15 = 12W Max
DDC 3.2 = 18W Max
DDC 3.25 = 18W Max

Common Specs between versions:
8-13.2V, 9V startup
Max 21.75PSI
Have I missed one?

I Found these on Laing Website, the last graph is confusing as it is rated in amps..and it looks like it exceeds 18W limit in DDC 3.2 & 3.25 (1.5A):

DDC 1 & 2
DDC 3.1 & 3.2
DDC 3.1 - 3.25

Using Data from these tables I plugged them into my own spreadsheet, rounding plot points to nearest .5 ft of head pressure. So it is not Exact, but it gives you a rough idea of the rankings...based on Laing's in-house testing results.

http://www.mmayukon.ca/assets/images/buildlog/18W.gif

Here are the combined results of all the data. However keep in mind both the DDC 3.2 and 3.25 have more amperage applied on this graph than the other pumps, so this data is NOT directly comparable.

http://www.mmayukon.ca/assets/images/buildlog/ddc.gif

As such, in reality, I would say the DDC2 is the overall winner, it hangs in there with the best of them...even undervolted.

If we go on this graphs data alone:

High Flow (> 1.5GPM) = DDC3.2 > DDC3.25 > DDC2
Average flow (1-1.5GPM)= DDC3.25 > DDC3.2 = DDC2
High Restriction (< 1.0GPM) = DDC3.25 > DDC2> DDC3.2

Looks like DDC2 was ahead of its time, DDC 3.2 is a mixed bag, DDC 3.25 overall best.

DDC1, DDC3.1, DDC3.15 all sux lol
05-29-2009, 07:24 PM
dsumanik

There I answered my own questions and updated data ... Did I do this right?
05-29-2009, 09:58 PM
LOUISSSSS

but wasn't the DDC2 the one w/ all the reliability issues?

and did the ddc2 really outperform the ddc3.2?
05-29-2009, 10:10 PM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUISSSSS

but wasn't the DDC2 the one w/ all the reliability issues?

and did the ddc2 really outperform the ddc3.2?

Yes

and yes.

Even despite the issues with the DDC-2, those who don't mind the quirks still covet these pumps. Meet my twins that I'll never get rid of....unless they die, even then I'll probably still hold on to them. I've got 2 dead ones beside me right now for mock up purposes.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&d=1225218039

Honestly, something doesn't look quite right with that graph. It's getting late here so I'm not gonna bother looking everything over because I'll probably make some silly mistake but I'll look it over tomorrow and see if it's just me.
05-30-2009, 05:12 AM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsumanik

I was just wondering if anyone out there had done any comparisions of the different version of DDC pump that have come out over the years. It would be interesting to develop a quick reference to see the actual gains/losses by the different models, even with the stock tops just to see the performance difference on the pump alone.

As far as I know this is the DDC model family??

DDC 1 = 12W Max
DDC 2 = 18W Max
DDC 3.1 = 12W Max
DDC 3.15 = 12W Max
DDC 3.2 = 18W Max
DDC 3.25 = 18W Max

Common Specs between versions:
8-13.2V, 9V startup
Max 21.75PSI
Have I missed one?

I Found these on Laing Website, the last graph is confusing as it is rated in amps..and it looks like it exceeds 18W limit in DDC 3.2 & 3.25 (1.5A):

DDC 1 & 2
DDC 3.1 & 3.2
DDC 3.1 - 3.25

Using Data from these tables I plugged them into my own spreadsheet, rounding plot points to nearest .5 ft of head pressure. So it is not Exact, but it gives you a rough idea of the rankings...based on Laing's in-house testing results.

http://www.mmayukon.ca/assets/images/buildlog/ddc.gif

High Flow (> 1.5GPM) = DDC3.2 > DDC3.25 > DDC2
Average flow (1-1.5GPM)= DDC3.25 > DDC3.2 = DDC2
High Restriction (< 1.0GPM) = DDC3.25 > DDC2> DDC3.2

Looks like DDC2 was ahead of its time, DDC 3.2 is a mixed bag, DDC 3.25 overall best.

DDC1, DDC3.1, DDC3.15 all sux lol

But at 2,3GPM the DDC3.25 is catching up again. They are almost the same then. And will probably line up with each other again. But at low flow the ddc3.25 packs more punch.

How much is the lowest recommended flow you must have? I have heard something that all over 1.5 or so is useless. But that might me my memory that is betraying me. So if you are planing to control your pump you should be better of with a ddc3.25 if i understood the graph correctly.
05-30-2009, 05:30 AM
kinghong1970

north of 1 but more around 1.5gpm should be fine.
05-30-2009, 05:33 AM
Brodholm

How do people fasten their 3.x5? They have no feet's so to speak.
05-30-2009, 05:37 AM
kinghong1970

ya mean the pump?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9...g/IMG_2156.jpg

mounted on a DIY plate...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9...g/IMG_1965.jpg
05-30-2009, 05:50 AM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghong1970

ya mean the pump?

Yep, but not the ddc3.2 and 3.1 the 3.x5's. Ie ddc3.25 and ddc3.15.

http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/imag...pmp-400_p0.jpg
No mount :\

Is that heat-sinks i see there?
05-30-2009, 05:56 AM
kinghong1970

oh... damn... no mounts...

yea, i had them laying around so i just stuck em on the side of the pumps...
05-30-2009, 06:23 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Yep, but not the ddc3.2 and 3.1 the 3.x5's. Ie ddc3.25 and ddc3.15.

http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/imag...pmp-400_p0.jpg
No mount :\

Is that heat-sinks i see there?

There are 2 small holes in the bottom that you can tap for use with 4mm screws with a max length of 10mm.

Personally, I don't use screws, that's the leading cause of unwanted noise. I either use the included pad, or substitute something soft like the sound absorbing wadding. I'm about to try something new on one of mine.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3564/bumperfeet.jpg
05-30-2009, 07:28 AM
faster3200

This and this graph show conflicting information. Based on the Laing data sheet I would say the second graph is at 13.25V instead of 12V like the other graph, which may be why it uses amps instead of watts for the rating. If this is the case the DDC-2 is still the best.
05-30-2009, 10:05 AM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

There are 2 small holes in the bottom that you can tap for use with 4mm screws with a max length of 10mm.

Personally, I don't use screws, that's the leading cause of unwanted noise. I either use the included pad, or substitute something soft like the sound absorbing wadding. I'm about to try something new on one of mine.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3564/bumperfeet.jpg

Ohh, Pads included you say :p: It looks like silicon pads. And if I have been informed correctly so doesn't the ddc like any pads underneath it. At least petras gel-stuff.

And also, how do you like your new ddc3.25 compared to your 3.2? And if you where to say who is the noisiest who would it be? I'm in the dilemma of buying a ddc3.2 or a ddc3.25. And sound is a important factor :)
05-30-2009, 10:14 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUISSSSS

but wasn't the DDC2 the one w/ all the reliability issues?

and did the ddc2 really outperform the ddc3.2?

the ddc-2 is about the best pump made until it was stoped because of horrible failure rates.

But i have the best DDC setup on this entire forum. (looking at single pump apparatus)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0081.jpg

The distinguishing feature on a ddc-2 is that orange/red impeller.

My heat sink for them. Yes they do get insanely hot.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0126.jpg
05-30-2009, 10:19 AM
kinghong1970

showoff!

:D
05-30-2009, 10:31 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghong1970

showoff!

:D

sorry my epenius is blocking your view.. what did you say? :ROTF:
05-30-2009, 10:32 AM
dsumanik

Quote:

Originally Posted by faster3200

This and this graph show conflicting information. Based on the Laing data sheet I would say the second graph is at 13.25V instead of 12V like the other graph, which may be why it uses amps instead of watts for the rating. If this is the case the DDC-2 is still the best.

This is what I thought as well... so where do I read the data points from for 12V settings on the that last graph... I will update my chart.
05-30-2009, 10:32 AM
kinghong1970

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

sorry my epenius is plugging my ear.. what did you say? :ROTF:

corrected...

:ROTF:

btw, custom job on the heatsink on the DDC?
are you using any thermal paste betwen or just dry fit?
05-30-2009, 10:34 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghong1970

corrected...

:ROTF:

btw, custom job on the heatsink on the DDC?
are you using any thermal paste betwen or just dry fit?

there custom.

Bei made about 10 total i think. I bought 5 and i think darth bought another 5.

Those sinks were me being bored with bei and coming up with ideas.

There attached via thermaltape.

And they do get warm, so heat does transfer somewhat though the plastic.
05-30-2009, 10:47 AM
dsumanik

So how Do i interpret

This Graph

So that I am only getting the 18W readings, I cant figure it out..do I just throw out any values above the 1.5 Amps line? If someone can list the values for the 18W flowrates/head pressure for the pumps on that graph I will plug them into my spreadsheet and then we will have the accurate picture...
05-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Ohh, Pads included you say :p: It looks like silicon pads. And if I have been informed correctly so doesn't the ddc like any pads underneath it. At least petras gel-stuff.

Those particular pads don't come with the pump. I bought those from a local Home Depot. The pad th DDC's come with are a good bit stiffer and have adhesive on both sides but they do work well.

Quote:

And also, how do you like your new ddc3.25 compared to your 3.2? And if you where to say who is the noisiest who would it be? I'm in the dilemma of buying a ddc3.2 or a ddc3.25. And sound is a important factor :)

I wish I had a 3.25 myself but I'm like kinghong, I gots me a cheapass bone that would break if I bought one of the Koolance pumps. I've been badgering Gabe on the boards here at every opportunity to start carrying the newer models and ship them to Newegg so I can get the 3.15 and mod it...which reminds me,

Gabe, start getting these newer DDC's into distro channels please!

Personally, I think your stressing out far too much about some of the "subjective" details. The only way to get past them is to take a leap of faith and pick one, if it doesn't work out the way you'd like, either return it or find a way to make it work the way you'd like it to....it's called modding for a reason.;)
05-30-2009, 11:04 AM
Sparda

I can vouch that the ddc2 will stop spinning when some of the component on the pcb is getting very hot beyond certain temp. It happens to me and when I touch the tube around cpu block and the pump's bottom ; it is very hot.:shock: I tried start the pump using seperate psu but the impeller wont move even after I tap the pump. I leave and let it cool for a while and try again. It just start spinning again like nothing happens:confused2. I can just give the pump 10 :slapass: awards for it's reliability.
I think it is normal for most electrical component for the thermal shutdown.
05-30-2009, 11:12 AM
NaeKuh

well the thing is a while back, we traced why ddc2 were failing. the conclusions were either gell pad, heat, wet pcb, rapid on off cycling.

the first 2 relates with heat. the last user error.

taking heat out of the eq, so far these pumps havent failed me yet
05-30-2009, 11:14 AM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Personally, I think your stressing out far too much about some of the "subjective" details. The only way to get past them is to take a leap of faith and pick one, if it doesn't work out the way you'd like, either return it or find a way to make it work the way you'd like it to....it's called modding for a reason.;)

Yeah, I know. I think to much and analyze it back an fourth and when I FINALLY makes up my mind something else comes along and ruins everything :D And then I'm back to square one. I guess its because I'm a bit of a perfectionist and like to have the "best" as possible for a reasonable amount of money.

back on topic: Looking at these graphs makes me think that the extra volts and amperes are the reason for the boost. The DDC3.2 (7-12v) and the DDC3.25 (8-13v). And when they made these graphs the definitely ran the .25 with 13volts. And therefore the "better" performance. And in a normal system you would not be able to get more than 12v.

I would like to see a test where they both are compared at the same voltage.
05-30-2009, 11:17 AM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

My heat sink for them. Yes they do get insanely hot.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0126.jpg

Are that heatskin working well? I'm thinking of milling a similar design as yours. Do you need to have that hole in the middle? That little "pin" isn't moving as I can remember? Or does it have another fuction.
05-30-2009, 11:18 AM
NaeKuh

however honda showed us they use a different impeller.

and yes my sinks work well. theres a few tweeks i wanted.

the hole in the middle id say isnt needed, but you wouldnt get contact because it dips in.

the fan mounts id get rid of in favor or a screw driver access to remove tops
05-30-2009, 11:55 AM
faster3200

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsumanik

So how Do i interpret

This Graph

So that I am only getting the 18W readings, I cant figure it out..do I just throw out any values above the 1.5 Amps line? If someone can list the values for the 18W flowrates/head pressure for the pumps on that graph I will plug them into my spreadsheet and then we will have the accurate picture...

That graph is sort of useless since it doesn't give pressure @ 18W. You get either pressure/flow @ ~20W (DDC 3.2) and ~21W (DDC 3.25) or Amps/flow @ ~16W-20W (DDC 3.2) and ~18W-21W (DDC 3.25). Assuming they used max spec voltage. If pressure was pressure/flow was linear it would be much easier to figure out. As it is, I don't think you can get max head from this graph. It is just useful to know that 3.25 is better than 3.2 in most situations.
05-30-2009, 12:05 PM
dsumanik

Ok so i will make a new graph then, one with the common 18W (1.5A) data and then leave the other one as an estimate.

Its too bad we couldnt find pump curves all on an 18W graph, we could sticky this sucker then. Out of plain interest perhaps I will start to try and collect one of each of these pumps and do some testing.
05-30-2009, 12:17 PM
faster3200

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsumanik

Ok so i will make a new graph then, one with the common 18W (1.5A) data and then leave the other one as an estimate.

Its too bad we couldnt find pump curves all on an 18W graph, we could sticky this sucker then. Out of plain interest perhaps I will start to try and collect one of each of these pumps and do some testing.

I am pretty sure HESmelaugh or Hondacity did 3.2 vs. 3.25 testing. They used tops though I am sure, so you can't just drop the data in.
05-30-2009, 12:23 PM
dsumanik

Quote:

Originally Posted by faster3200

I am pretty sure HESmelaugh or Hondacity did 3.2 vs. 3.25 testing. They used tops though I am sure, so you can't just drop the data in.

I have updated the OP to reflect common 18W data, and a disclaimer on the final graph.

If someone can supply me with Pump curves for both the 3.15 and 3.25 at 18W with stock tops...we will be able to complete the picture.

Anyone out there able to assist?
05-30-2009, 12:42 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Gabe, start getting these newer DDC's into distro channels please!

OK.
05-30-2009, 12:45 PM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

OK.

:ROTF:

Thank you kindly. :D:clap::up:
05-30-2009, 03:52 PM
Brodholm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

OK.

Will the swiftech pumps be any different than the koolance ones?
05-30-2009, 03:57 PM
faster3200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodholm

Will the swiftech pumps be any different than the koolance ones?

They might have feet, otherwise no.
05-30-2009, 05:16 PM
Waterlogged

Considering the volume of pumps Swiftech sells, they'll likely (but not guaranteed) be cheaper as well.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/202...ossedsmile.gif
05-30-2009, 05:26 PM
Martinm210

Thanks for doing the comparison, good info!!