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This a dual core for $120 being unlocked to Quad Core? 0_o
Please tell me this is a joke.
Perkam
^^ according to Fud its $100
Was any stability tests ran though? the locked cores might of been untested or just defective. Cool either way though.
It takes the crown of cheapest quad-core on the market from X3 720 BE :D
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaskar
And I thought the tri-core unlocking was cool!
how can amd make a quadcore for 100 dollars. this is just stupid.
nevertheless its cool.:cool:
Oh my oh my :D. i5 what? :D
If ACC can unlock Callisto to 4 cores and it happens to be 4 stable cores(in majority of cases),then new Phenom II X2 will become THE CPU of choice for enthusiasts given the great performance,4 cores for the price of 2,extremely low price and no cold bug! Awesome value.:up:
They can't that is why they continually lose money.Quote:
Originally Posted by haschioz
Nope,the 2 cores did not meet the frequency or TDP targets so they "turned them off" and launched a dual core. Usually this happens when the wafer that was meant to be "tuned" for high performance yields a number of dice that fail to meet the targeted specifications.There is also a "tune for low power" option that AMD uses for EE Opterons and Phenoms with "e" letter in product model number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easybeat
Anyhow,no matter what it is(DC,Tri or QC) amd does make money on every Deneb die they sell.The cost is roughly 50$ (total) per chip,so you can see they do not lose money because they sell it with a loss.They lose money because their server sales slowed down last 2 quarters(nehalem and economic crisis) and they pay off the credit they took to buy ati.
If a CPU doesn't follow up to AMDs standards its being derived to a Tri/quad-core.Quote:
Originally Posted by haschioz
Go find a clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easybeat
OT: This is pure sex, absolutelly something i'll test!
Losing money or not, they might get MY money soon enough, since Intel decide not to ever decrease the price of Q9650 and no other 45 nm Core2 Quad with 9x multi is available and affordable from them.
Where are you getting your $50 cost figure from? I hope you are not making this figure up.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
If they don't have a separate mask for Duals, and when one takes into account Duals currenty sell in far greater number than quads, then AMD's yield of Quads must be pitiful or they have been forced into using perfectly good quads as low ASP duals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Either was it doesn't bode well for them.
If you weren't such a committed AMD fan, Informal the hypocrite would be highlighting this post, but you are safe.Quote:
Go find a clue.
Seems kinda like a good publicity stunt following how their tri core unlocking helped boost their sales.
It's a good idea if it works but I also heard of issues with not only stability but unlocking the extra core burning out the chip with x3 to x4. Therefore this seems even more dangerous with x2. But if it works yay.
Besides saving the parts that don't meet quad or tri core standards and selling them seperately whether than just throwing them out is a wonderfully smart business decision in my mind.
Hm. MY question is: Do I spend $ on this and an AMD board? Do I just upgrade to Intel Quad using my current 775 board?
You forgot the chance of faulty cores that are unstable at any frequency.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
This is BS (as an idea I mean). It would be better of being sold as 150W QC than a DC of any kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I hope you're wrong, at that price, after retail margins, transport and VAT, they'd be left with no cash per chip, rather a loss.Quote:
Anyhow,no matter what it is(DC,Tri or QC) amd does make money on every Deneb die they sell.The cost is roughly 50$ (total) per chip
Quote:
so you can see they do not lose money because they sell it with a loss.
LOL badly put man :D "One does not loose money because he sells at a loss" ;) (ye ye we all know what you meant)
BZZZZZT! Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaunits
It would be utter chaos if AMD/Intel just decided to change TDPs on their chips willy-nilly.
Imagine HP's reaction when 1/4 of their quad core desktops using an OEM cooling solution that was specced for 125W TDP start coming back with overheating issues or blown PWM...
In fact, one of the most LIKELY reasons for the cores to be turned off is an inability for that chip to meet the desired clock speed target in the desired power envelope.
Nice attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Rather than a flippant comment then I would like you to tell me how AMD are going to make money on selling a quad core as a dual core. Anyway you cut it they are losing money on this chip, selling this as a dual simply makes them a smaller loss.
Your hope has nothing to do with it.It's an "insider" info I got back in the day of 65nm wafers.The picture hasn't changed much,if at all,on 45nm node(it can only be cheaper).Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
I see you are going strong on your bitter road there ... One more to add to the list of personal attacks made by C.Boga.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easybeat
Read my previous post to see why AMD is not losing money on this chip.
@alfaunits
You didn't understand one important bit when it comes to "tuned for performance".If a die fails to meet the targets and was made on the wafer with before mentioned optimization,it will fail either as high TDP part or a low EE part.AMD does have certain TDP segments and it can't go beyond them due to design constraints on the motherboard level.
And sorry i put it badly at the end,I see you get what I wanted to say :).
You upgrade to a better CPU in your existing s775 board,an easy solution ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by RagzaroK
Oh that is real credible considering your posting history. :ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
This was kind of expected, no real surprise. Now if somone could mod a bios so we can sellect the cores we want, the odds of making a good tripple core would be great.
Holy smoke! Worth a try for such little money! To the OP, what CPU is it exactly?
Yea, exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaskar
If the chip is so bad that 2 cores are faulty/not up to spec, wouldn't the chances of it being exceedingly unstable with +2 cores be quite high?
I think you knew this CPU! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Not again..... lol now I just gotta wait for the PhII single cores....... jking of course
It may be that the 2 cores are truly defect in some way.But looking at the X3 Phenom IIs,there is a solid chance the cores are just not up to spec(OCs on these "unlocked" X4s are indeed generaly lower than on normal X4s though).Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50
Fail comment :rolleyes: .Move alongQuote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
They had that fiasco with some boards in the Phenom I days, IIRC, that some mobos didn't like 140W Phenoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I think the situation is different now - considering how cool most PhIIs run, the cores would have to be so f***ing bad not be able to meet 125W, which I doubt is the case.
We'll see if this holds any ground though when we get some temps from the DC<->QC chips.
I read it, I agree with the reasoning behind why they turn quads into duals but I don't agree with the financial aspect for the simple reason that AMD have posted quarterly losses for 2 to 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
If AMD had a product or range of products that were making them a healthy profit margin then maybe just maybe they could still turn a profit on a defective quad to dual however there is no indications of that at all thus I believe they are simply making less of a loss.
This is very cool, especially if you're an enthusiast.
But there is definetely a smaller o/c on average against an x4 cpu...
For example my friend's 720be does max 3.6 @ 4 cores, while @ 3 it reaches easily 3.8-9....
And what we also experienced is that it needed a big bump in nb voltage(1.45v) to be stable @ 3.6 + the no temp readings...
So, u pay what u get with an interesting bonus , but seriously, it ain't as good as a proper x4...
Heck, this makes a better quad than either my 945 or 955.
it could be they want to sell cheap cpus to make some money on the motherboards. get people into their platform and keep them there.
what proc is this?! what mobo does it unlock on?! and when can i get it?!
I smell here a big opportunities for dishonest computer sellers...
I thought AMD changed the cores after the X3-to-X4 unlock became popular and that it doesn't work on those newer than 0904? Someone please help me out?
I'd guess it's the 550 BE given the unlocked multiplier. Currently at €98, after launch on tuesday it will probably drop more. X2 250 at €90. Look here
550 BE also here, €94
dingdingding, same thing happend with the old pentiums where the multis still where open.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
Thought i think when such thing ever happens they most likely will surface in asia.
They need SB710 or SB750 for that, plus the right BIOS. It will cost more than the average low end board, especially if there's no budget SB710 board that can do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kl0012
that is pretty cool, i going to get one for my cousin then :D cheap and is a quad
I tihnk this is great news
And ofcourse, by making their duals/tris/quads from exactly the same wafer/process will only mean that all of the products will mature more quickly, and surely the overclockability etc of them will all improve more quickly?
I think this is great for AMD, bring more people to go with them now, and then hopefully stay.
Of course, but even better is selling something at all and the market for quadcores is still rather small, while cheap dualcores still sell in recordnumbers, in short, they are better off selling them as x2 rather than piling up a mountain of x4s.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaunits
I don't think AMD can even make enough X4s to match the demand.. even then they'd be better off selling it as the lowest grade quad core Opteron rather than a dual core desktop part. Don't tell me it can't match those TDPs :D
I don't understand the negativity. The insinuation that a dual core that can unlock as a quad should be sold as a quad is as absurd is the insinuation that a cpu that can clock to 4Ghz should be sold as a 150W 4Ghz CPU.
It is just another feature that us enthusiasts can take advantage of, just like overclocking, which is also never stable at high clocks and no two chips clock alike.
As for me, I want to know how they clock on two cores on air :D
Perkam
They have their own DualCore K10 mask by now, and if you take into account that amd sells multiple opteron quad core processor lines and quad core desktop chips it's quite obvious that there will be some (enough) chips with defective parts leftover to produce and sell such an extreme low volume chip (black edition is low volume)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
the bulk of 45nm Dualcores (more than 95% ?!) will be made on their own dual core 2x1mb mask without any L3 cache ;)
I'm saying I doubt the two cores work correctly, as I find the TDP to be a likely limit for PhII. For tri-cores.... OK I'll bite.. not for DC!
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
oh noes...i just got my 720BE a few days ago :(
Sweet, we need a list of board/BIOS combos this and the Tri-Core unlock on.
Can you unlock only one core? Ie. make the dual a tri? That way if only one of the 2 spare cores is cr@p, you can still get a tri.
The negativity is due to it being an AMD announcement. Start an Intel thread stating the Core i5 line will have a dual core chip that unlocks to a quad and you'll get rainbow and lolly pop responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
AMD cost per deneb/shangai die is
300mm wafer area 70,683mm^2/243mm^2 die area=290 max dies per wafer
20%waste and 65% yield gives them 151 functional cores at a wafer cost of $5000USD that is $33.11 per die.
To make a fifty percent profit margin they need to sell their chips at an average cost of $66.22. If %20 of all the dies are some form of salvage call it 30 and you just dump them in the trash the price per core goes up to $41.32 per die. This means they must sell each chip at an average price of $82.64 to make the same %50 profit margins. Dual core and tri core make excellent economic sense.
If you dislike my numbers show me yours.
The die cost for the 955=940=810=720=710=550. The are all deneb/shangai, the only difference is the bin they get dumped into.
this is really becoming a problem. if amd really cared they would laser cut the cores. im not sure why they dont already.
It's marketing genius, it gets people interested in their products. this dual core would smoke any intel dual core :DQuote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
Let's assume you are right with that. AMD will not in any chance sell a single chip at 80USD if the end user price is 100USD.
They won't sell any at 70$ even. You forget the retailer/OEM margin and VAT. (except maybe in the US, where the calc might make sense).
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhamm
As long they can still get some profit per chips, getting small amount is till much better than not getting anything at all, worse off letting customers go to the "other" provider.
Your math is roughly correct ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhamm
wow dual core UNLOCKED to quad
how cool is that :D
now you just have to unlock multies hahah :shocked: like my Opteron 146 decided to chuck in an extra multi lol
I don't see why people care so much about whether AMD will or will not be losing money from these dual cores.
We're consumers, not their bloody financial consultants :\
Impressive, i wonder what percentage will be able to unlock and hit clocks like this!
Marketing genius everyone likes to get more than they paid for, only people who dont like it are the ones hwo paid more for the same OC as others :P
Order an ass ton of the same chip so u have bulk.
The only problem I forsee with this is endusers actually complaining when they're system is not 100 % stable when they use a bios that unlocks the chip..........
Unfortunately its tough noogies.........If you email the manufacturer and complain they are likely to laugh at you.....then of course the end user will be slamming said manufacturer.....
I forsee a vicious circle...
I've already seen this in the gigabyte 790 thread.....endusers want, want, want....the mere mention that they might have a dud or not be 100% stable is forbidden.....its the bios's fault..........
hmm so he says 65% yield = 151 cores and just to make it add up even worse lets lob off 20% (30) more trash cores from the 151 aswell. so the yield is now 45%.... bs. no way are they pulling 45% yields on a mature process with SOIQuote:
Originally Posted by informal
Sad but true chew*. I bought the 720BE with the hopes that it would unlock the 4th core and fortunately it did (and stable:D).Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
On the other hand, I've been around the block a few times and realized that I may not be that lucky. Personally, I would have just said "Oh Well" I got what I paid for and been happy with nice OC I got using only an X3.
Unfortunatly, there are always the select few who will complain they got ripped off because thier ~$70 chip won't unlock to a quad (COUGHlooser). :shakes:
I would really have to think you'd be FAR less likely to get a stable quad from an PhII X2.
Either way... It's pretty frikken cool. ;)
And I'd be willing to bet that with the extra surface area of the unused die to aid in cooling it will be a VERY good OC'ing chip as a dual. :up:
Not true there are quite cheap low end bords with SB710 from Asrock which can do this:Quote:
They need SB710 or SB750 for that, plus the right BIOS. It will cost more than the average low end board, especially if there's no budget SB710 board that can do it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157154 ASRock A780GMH/128M 72$
SB 710 ACC, 4DDR2 1066 suport for all Phenom II, etc.
And at a good price for an AM3 board, all solid capacitors
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157152 ASRock M3A790GXH/128M AM3 112$
4gb DDR3 1600 suport. All these Asrock board have a good bios in unlocking and they are very cheap for what they offer.:up:
ok i am an old amd guy and didnt touch any amd cpu after my 3500+ so what missed is where do we know it is a dual core at the first time?
Because the financials have implications for sustainability and future trends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by kromosto
I wanna see some stability test.
Even if it's true, this screenshots mean nothing to me if it isn't stable enough to run 24/7.
It's cool, but it has no real usage if it isn't stable
Is there any trend amongst tri cores to report higher idle temperatures and power consumption relative to quads?Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
so what cpu is this? athlon2 x2? or phenom2 x2?
phenom2 x2 right? nice!
To have any future whatsoever, they have to survive first NOW, right ? We know that AMD won't be competitive until their next gen mArch arrive -if that would ever become a good adversary for whatever Intel will offer right then, a BIG "IF" in itself, then bashing AMD effort to just stay afloat till better time arrive is rather hypocritical, isn't it ? Is there any other viable alternative for them than trying to be more competitive in the mid to low end segment this time around ? Are you suggesting that AMD just should lay down and file chapter 11 ? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
This is AMD's type of Hyper-Threading. :D
"Real men use unlocked cores." :rofl:
ok, enough with overclocking, next step is overCORING!!!!
Hey man I overcored my cpu to 45 cores, great result!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuvok-LuR-
but still i dont get where we know it was x2 at the first place where does it shows. cpuzs screens. i am asking because i want to learn where we got it pls help :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by kromosto
There's your giveaway right there :). Unlocked X3s(to X4s) show similar model numbers(ie. non existent)Quote:
running default with 4 core unlocked, only 1,28V vcore CPUz detected X4 B50
You are confusing average selling price with lowest price. They do not have to make a minimum %50 profit on every chip. All they need to do is make an average %50 percent on all the chips they sell. For every 955 they sell at say $120 they can sell 3.33 chips at $50 and still hit the %50 percent profit goal. The purpose is to maximize the total profit not the individual chip profit. As long as they sell at anything above the total costs they make money. It is basic economics. BTW if you look at the numbers you will come to the conclusion that Intel is raking its customers over the coals. IE they are being raped if they are buying I7 965/975 for $1000 a pop. Yes AMD did the exact same thing with the X2 FU_X times. We prefer calling it smart business ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaunits
ty :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Its actually scary that it also shows as a X4 CPU. Welcome to shady companies that will sell it as quadcores :(
do you have any idea what your talking about ????Quote:
Originally Posted by nunchucka
Don't think that should be an arguement for not allowing unlocking cores. Shady companies will always exist and fool the less informed. Besides, it IS a X4 CPU, this one was a X4 B50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Really? Its one of the main reasons we got locked CPU multipliers and CPU indentification programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by marten_larsson
I wonder how it changes to X4. The CPUID should have been unique, even with 2 factory disabled cores.
Its an X4 CPU with 2 cores thats faulty in some way.
Another fun part is to enjoy the tears from all those that expect every dualcore to unlock all 4 :)
Its more of a backfire than good marketing imo.
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
I knew it. Since the 720 was unlockable to a quad core I knew these dual core Phenom's were capable of unlocking themselves into a quad core. If it becomes a quad core I wonder if the performance is close to a 940 or 950.
I observed another hint for the ideea that X4\X3\X2 are phisically made from same die, look on the CPUZ on stepping and revision there are the same for all X4 920/940/955, X3 720/710, X2 550. There is no different revision for all X4/X3/X2 cpus? i mean nothing different at all no metter that is 125W,95W,80W TDP? So i think that beside the fact that there are rebuts and damaget cpus that which have 1/2? cores broken all these cpu' are in fact original X4 Phenom 2 with 1/2cores disabled and even some L3 cache disabled.:up:Quote:
I knew it. Since the 720 was unlockable to a quad core I knew these dual core Phenom's were capable of unlocking themselves into a quad core.
They can't. You have to unlock the cores manually and shady companies rarely have intelligent minds on their hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Perkam
you can unlock the 2 cores but it still lacks the L3 cache, right?
Even with 2 cores they have all 6MB of L3 cache.. so no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuvok-LuR-
You're thinking of the Athlon II X2, which has 1MB L2 per core. (2MB Total) and No L3.
This (afwk) has its own native Dual core mask though so it's not unlockable to quad, since the cores don't physically exist.
Now -Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
550: €92
250: €85
Regor is native dual core with no L3 and 2x1MB L2.Propus is native quad core with 4x512KB L2 and no L3.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
I'm pretty sure that's just FUD from Intel's Marketing. Even after they locked the multi you could still bump up the FSB on the cheap chips from 66mhz to 100mhz.
Exactly, just like slower C2's can be sold with 333 MHx FSB, or BE's with the multiplier maxed out. There's always someone who'd buy an overpriced 3.8 GHz 955 BE.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by RVWinkle
Funny how AMD had the same problems and used the same countermeasure :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by RVWinkle
I wasn't talking about Regor&Propus, i was talking only about Phenom II X4,X3, and Callisto X2.Quote:
Regor is native dual core with no L3 and 2x1MB L2.Propus is native quad core with 4x512KB L2 and no L3.
And why you're so shure that Regor is a native dual core? It might be a crippled future Propus whith two cores disabled...
definitely, there's no way our stress tests test every single transistor in an entire CPU - i bet there are linpack and prime stable unlocked cores out there with irrecoverable defects in the diesQuote:
Originally Posted by chew*
Actually Intel's position about overclocking is pretty clear - "yes" for entusiast, "no" for mass. I would hear from AMD what's its position about cores unlocking. For now it's looks like "silent marketing". I mean AMD is very silent about all that stuff and lets to forums like this to do its job (advertisement). So when some unhappy user will come back and complain about instability issues with unlocked cores, then AMD will be completely innocent.:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by RVWinkle
Use logic maybe? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
Regor has 2x1MB of L2 while Propus has 4x512KB of L2.And no, AMD can't combine the other L2 caches from your "Crippled Propus" to make 2x1MB of L2...
Why do people never learn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
People in the EU pay high taxes, with the taxes in Germany reaching 19%.
The price without taxes is €77.46 which comes to $109.50 USD for the price of the Phenom II 550 BE.
Perkam
All phenom II's use the same kind of die, this is nothing new you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
indeed, there's no bus on a phenom die that would allow two usable cores to borrow l2 cache from two dead coresQuote:
Originally Posted by informal
And I live where?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I was referring to the people that convert the price inc taxes into their USD calculations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
The fact that you are from Europe doesn't change my argument.
Perkam
Sure but seeing you quoting me is just confusing since no one have mentioned those prices, nor assumed that they're without taxes.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam