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http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...windows-7.aspxQuote:
XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site.
Game changing? End of windows compatibility woes...
Awesome news, so no more need to dual boot.
Alpha Centauri will work on Windows 7's XP Mode right? And all other old games that are Vista incompatible?
I admit, I have reinstalled XP three times just to play Alpha Centauri :(
I miss that game! Sid Meier was the man!Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
This is awesome news!
http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Strategy/Tu...pha%20centauriQuote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Synthetickiller
http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Strategy/~r...commended=GAME
http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Action/Adve...tes/?s=pirates
SMAC + SMAX, Civ III Complete, and Pirates, all for £9.99 =D
Sorry for the offtopic, but I cant live without Sid Meier games and SMAC is pretty much the only reason I still dual boot onto XP, and also for old Dos games via Dosbox.
*Crosses fingers that all the old dos games will work in Windows 7 too*
the first thing i thought of when i saw this was retro games :p:
Cant wait to play through little big adventure again without dosbox/dualboot.
this sounds nice!
however, the most important question is: will the vm feature hardware accelerated 3d graphics? seeing that unreal tournament doesn't even start on win7 64bit this would be awesome and i'd migrate to win7 immediately after the release. - but if 3d hardware support isn't included i'll have a hard time and most likely stay with xp :/
btw: the screenshot reminds me of published citrix apps in seamless mode :D
VirtualBox now supports OpenGL 3D hardware acceleration in 32-bit WinXP VMs. Direct3D support is being added in a future release. I haven't tested the feature, but it may be worth investigating.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
Awesome idea, this'll probably bring the improvements faster for the next generations of OS since compatibility won't be an issue anymore. It's a bit sad for those who purchase Home Premium and under though, but still is very good news!
i was about to give a meh, until i actually read the article (helps, doesn't it...). single desktop vm is totally awesome. its like a compatiblity mode that actually works, lol.
If games do work I don't expect them to run fast or the system to be anywhere near stable. It's hard enough to keep XP or Vista from crashing, I just can't imagine the amounts of bluescreens you get when they run at once.
:shocked:
This could work though. In Win7 SP3 that is. :)
Will that have proper working IPX like XP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katanai
win7 has a huge amount of hyperV in it and the ability to mount and boot from a VHD file, so for games if its broken in win7 then u boot from the virtual XP VHD and it works fine by using a boot loader driver in the hyper visor to emulate a a hard drive just like a ram drive bios would. it works in the beta but u have to use power shell (rc should have a gui). so its just a free copy of xp to boot to just in case u need it instead of having to make your own vhdQuote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
i'm playing older games in virtual pc 2007 on a regular basis ;) why should there be problems with that? age of empires 2 for example runs like a charm on a winxp vm. even fullscreen is no problem at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katanai
since virtual pc 2007 only supports one vcpu per vm performance is always limited to one core of your cpu.
dunno about other virtualization programs though.
Eh? DOSBox works fine on Vista, been using it since I first installed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
On topic, excellent news, and a very smart move from MS.
awsome idea. ive been staying away from using my copy of vista because virtual box didnt have graphics acceleration.
can't wait for some performance numbers...Quote:
VirtualBox now supports OpenGL 3D hardware acceleration in 32-bit WinXP VMs. Direct3D support is being added in a future release. I haven't tested the feature, but it may be worth investigating.
Ehh, what games out there that are incompatible with anything past XP that would even remotely stress a modern computer? It would be like running the dos based games in XP, the hardware has advanced so much it didn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katanai
Hmm... I wonder if CAL and CUDA can be run through it? :)
Also, is it x64 XP, or x86? :confused:
How does a virtual OS affect performance? Say I wanted to switch to XP to play games that run better on XP, then switch back to 7 to crunch/word process/look at barnyard :banana::banana::banana::banana:.
thats a joke... they just killed off xp support so there will be more and more issues coming up id think, no propper drivers for new hardware, bugs, vulnerabilities...
so we are supposed to buy 7 to run xp then? pfff... try again ms
Does this mean that I can run 16-bit apps on Windows 7 x64 via this xp compatibility mode?
i think that its more for businesses with 16bit and old propitiatory apps, but that they would still benefit from 64bit and the new os for the other apps. and MS has exchange 14 coming out thats great atleast and office 14 with 64bit support for those 4GB word documents
its just like what virtual PC dose but people didnt want to pay for it, and it lets every1 demo boot from vhd, and thats nice.
Ehm...this has nothing to do with Windows 7. And its not included with Windows 7. This is MED-V! And it works precisely the same way on Vista.
Have you actually read the article? Unlike MED-V it includes the xp licence, and it is desinged to be used by people who do not have accaes to MED-V. Oh and btw my first news post, so hello!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
you can do the same on VMware in unity mode. :p:
thought its cool the get a free xp licence o already got a few myself. :p:
They did not fully kill XP support, there will still be support for XP until somewhere in 2014-2015. BTW, you only get this feature with Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate (and Enterprise), in which it is an extra download. It won't come installed by default.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I just hope it works better than microsoft virtual pc, etc. I have windows 7 64 bit, and spent 3 days finally getting CiV II Gold edition to work. One of the many things I tried was microsoft virtual pc and one other virtualization method but cant remember at moment other one I tried. Both sucked horribly. Game played slow, really ugly crappy graphics, just was not the same.
Finally found a Civ II gold edition that was recoded by users to work on windows vista 64 bit via bit torrent. Only time I have ever downloaded and used something over torrent.
If windows 7 has the ability to run windows XP in virtual without horrendous graphics and unbelievably slow game play (and civ II is far from todays games requirements) that would be awesome, but after trying 2 virtualization of XP on 7 and both sucking horribly, I will believe it when I see it...though would be awesome if it worked well.
Where can I find what the difference will be between Professional and Ultimate version?
Awesome news!
Suddenly migrating to W7 looks a whole lot more attractive :)
This is a really good addon from microsoft, totally support this move. Will be interesting exactly how much the performance hit is though.
Yes, I ahve read it and MS only have 1 thing like this. And its called MED-V. or virtual PC...also its common you can install one guest for free on a virtualized host. only enterprise server and datacenter server differs from this with 4 and unlimited guests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodkin
Everyone have access to MED-V. MED-V is the new MS Virtual PC.
MED-V for desktop, Hyper-V for servers.
Funny thats exactly the MED-V description :DQuote:
XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line, which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's server-side virtualization platform. However, XPM is not Hyper-V for the client. It is instead a host-based virtualization solution like Virtual PC; the hardware assistance requirement suggests this will be the logical conclusion of this product line from a technological standpoint. That is, we fully expect future client versions of Windows to include a Hyper-V-based hypervisor.
XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site. (That is, it will not be included in the box with Windows 7, but is considered an out-of-band update, like Windows Live Essentials.) XPM works much like today's Virtual PC products, but with one important exception: As with the enterprise-based MED-V (Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization) product, XPM does not require you to run the virtual environment as a separate Windows desktop. Instead, as you install applications inside the virtual XP environment, they are published to the host (Windows 7) OS as well. (With shortcuts placed in the Start Menu.) That way, users can run Windows XP-based applications (like IE 6) alongside Windows 7 applications under a single desktop.
Looks like win7 RC will be available to the public on May 5
source
i already have it i'll test it soonQuote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
OT:
I wonder how many people are not using Win7 as their main OS as a result of PunkBuster not supporting it? :mad:
0.001%? And 99% due to betastage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
I was really excited about virtual stuff late last year until I researched it and found out that to run xp or vista in a virtual environment you need a host os to run it from. The host os has to be compatible with all your hardware that your going to use in the virtual os in order to use that hardware in the virtual os atleast thats what I've learned from researching vm crap. I was thinking of using linux as the host os and run a vm of xp so I don't have to own xp to use it but I don't think it works that way exactly and linux doesn't support some of my hardware or if it does the support is not so great and nobody is really interested in updating that support because they are too busy making yet another linux kernel.
If vista is the host os and vista does not support direct access to hardware then how will creative labs stuff work right in an xp vm? what about hardware acceleration of any kind? This is why I hate vista because m$ disabled some stuff to put in place some sneaky things that hollywood and the mafiaa wanted and no doubt paid for but seeing this news makes me think those payments from the mafiaa aren't enough to cover what m$ said they didn't earn this year lol. They remembered that the PEOPLE that use their software are the market that matters not some crook with a big check.
Really all m$ has to do is turn on hardware acceleration and stop playing around with hollywood and the problems will be solved.
Me, plus some bad news...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...t-so-much.aspx
Quote:
I've gotten a lot of questions about whether XP Mode will be suitable for gaming.
Put simply, no, it will not be suitable for gaming.
First, this technology is aimed at businesses, not consumers. It's licensed only for Windows 7 Pro, Enterprise, and Ultimate. What Microsoft is trying to accomplish here is to remove the final deployment blockers for its most recent version of Windows. Those are compatibility related. Many businesses run older applications or, more important, custom apps that they built on older Windows versions.
XPM/MED-V/Hyper-V for gaming should be pretty obvious that its a no go. Or advanced audio etc.
I'm not sure where you got that from? My Auzentech X-Fi Forte (Creative Labs X-Fi chip) does hardware acceleration of my games music in Windows 7 and in Windows Vista. They got rid of hardware acceleration through the DirectSound layer to more closely mimic the way they do sound on the X-Box 360 (part of the reason, there is more to it), but you can still have hardware acceleration of your audio through the OpenAL API.Quote:
Originally Posted by boredtodeath
Long story short, you're talking nonsense here.
vmware workstation 6.5 does that alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gogeta
Support for DirectX 9.0c with Shader Model 2 3D graphics
but didn't try that out yet how good it is.
pro is equivalent to vista biz and ulti is ulti, so u get media center on top of pro. and pro will be the one to get since ulti is a limited edition product nowQuote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Whats the problem with hyper-v, could a driver allowing 3d graphics not be written? I kinda thought that was the point of hyper-v, expandibility...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Its not about what it can do as such. Its about the performance of it. Plus I dont think any GPU could support it yet in full performance. Maybe in 5-10 years in the future we can do it fluent. Right now virtualization focus is on "server" related things. And graphics aint one since servers contains a RageXL or G200 GPU :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodkin
WrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
http://www.nvidia.com/object/sli_multi_os.html
Not completely. With Windows 7 each version will be a superset of the other. In other words, all features available in Home Premium will also be available in Professional, which does include media center for example. Just check here for a reasonably complete rundown:Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_skus.asp
Oh, burn :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
Look again. Plus its quadro cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1238408514209.htmlQuote:
SLI Multi-OS works in association with Parallels Workstation Extreme virtualization software and Intel’s VT-d technology, assigning both the host and guest virtual machine its own dedicated GPU
Thats not really virtualization when you have to dedicate HW for it that the host cant use. Its another messy hotfix solution from nVidia.
Im not using it because its still a Beta?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
I enrolled in the Vista beta program, and had two beta CD's sent to me.
Both were incompatible with my graphics card / motherboard and wouldnt work in more than 16 colours !!!
I am aware that Windows 7 is already a lot better then Vista was at launch, but I would prefer not to bug test another OS. Vista is stable and running wonderfully for me, except of course for the old games :(
Thoigh I will admit I regret buying Vista now, because it was hardly any benefit over XP except for looking nicer. I bought it just for DX10, and have hardly played enough DX10 games to justify the spend.
I only learned this AFTER I installed Win7, when I tried playing BF2. Even with the latest, up to date PB, it will kick you after 10seconds, claiming some kernal error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
PB is a fat, lazy turd. While the concept of not having cheating is appealing, PB has made it comparable to DRM, considering you have 2 PB services running on your PC all the time.
Could not agree more, PB is a great idea, but theire exacution is very unproffesional, espacaly the updater, finding it alone is beyond most people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelCain
why is it obvious? other virtualization environments are able to handle it as well. i mean, it's not that i would expect e.g. crysis with dx9c + sm3 to run decent in a vm, it's more like older games which don't care if the cpu is a quadcore with 3,2ghz or a singlecore with 1,5ghz, or if the gpu has 15000 3dmarks in 3dmark06 or 1000...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
on the other hand, a friend of mine is playing age of empires 3 on his macbook pro with parallels. and it runs great.
it's about time ms does smth similar.
AoE3 is 4 years old...plus its not exactly a FPS game to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
It doesnt matter if you run it on a Mac or Windows. So no, other virtualization environments aint able to do it. The best Parallels can do is to dedicate an entire GFX card to the VM if you got 2. The host will ofcourse be unable to use it. In your friends case a Geforce 9400M and 9600M GT.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/graphics.html
Needing 2 GFX cards. One for the host, one for the guest kinda kills the idea of virtualization.
well if u get a phenom2 then u have an IGP for the hostQuote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Phenom 2? You talk about the "APU" design in 2011? Or Intels Clarkdale?Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
Thats true. But both parts are lowend parts so to say. They aint performance parts. And you would still need something in the x16 slot for it to work. :yepp:
But then what when you wish to game on your host? Windows 7 doesnt support hybrid graphics. Nor does Vista x64.
Reboot to switch to "host performance"?
no im talking about the GX chipset is being used alot, that way the real gpu gets whats using power and the IGP gets on the host
and all of the i5 will have an IGP
who on xs.org buys a p2 with a IGP... my impression was, that the most common oc chipset for P2 is the 790FX...Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
i5 sure wont have IGP. There is no IGP in Lynnfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzabar
Thats hybrid graphics. And thats not supported by the OS. So you will have to predefine a permant performance setting upon boot. What GPU goes to who. Its so messy that its basicly useless.
Plus you could have additional nightmares if the 2 aint fully feature compatible. As in 790GX and a HD5000 series GFX card.
Win7 is better off going with a WINE sort of solution if you want to play older games. But XP mode isn't about that AoE3 can run fine in vista, i'm expecting XP mode to just support corporate legacy apps which are still hanging around.