Lapping the Heatkiller 3.0 [Top tip: DON'T DO IT!]

It came up in a thread somewhere that the Watercool HK 3.0 has an un-lapped, unpolished base while several other blocks like the Apogee GTZ or the Koolance CPU 350 have polished bases.

This, of course, begs the question whether a lapped and polished surface will provide improved temperatures.


Only one way to find out...


http://www.abload.de/img/269wh0.jpg


Before lapping

Here are some pics of what the HK 3.0's base looked like before lapping:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/20lqqg.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/22tpb6.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/21cqc7.jpg

There are some scratches on the base because it's already seen almost a dozen mounts. Also, sorry for the dust on the base on that second pic.
As we can see on the third pic, the base does have something of a mirror-shine to it.

Anyway, let's get the sandpaper out. :D


During lapping

After a few minutes of lapping I had a first look at the base and was a bit surprised. See for yourself:

http://www.abload.de/img/238zyr.jpg

EDIT: The pic is actually a bit misleading. The darker spots is where the block made contact with the sandpaper, the brighter areas are the concave ones.

We are clearly looking at a bowed base here. The area in the middle is making contact with the sandpaper, as are the edges, but there is a "ring" around the middle that isn't toughting sand yet.

Nickel020 checked the base of his HK 3.0 and reported that it was completely flat, as far as I recall. So what's with the base of mine? This is a retail-sample, by the way, so no need to come up with conspiracy theories. :p:

I don't know if this has to do with the fact that this is a used block or if it's coincidence or whatever. Seeing that the block is bowed and that I am basically flattening out that bow makes me guess that I won't be doing this block's performance any good. But I started it, so I might as well go through with it.


After lapping

Here are some pics of what the base looked like after lapping and polishing:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/25dysc.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/24vv50.jpg

Not perfect, but I guess it can pass.


Temperatures before and after

The block is currently on it's second mount after lapping.
I'll post the results when they come in.


Okay, results:
All temps are the difference between CPU and water temperature.


Average temperature of all mounts before lapping: 30.4

Temperature after lapping, Run 1: 31.7
Temperature after lapping, Run 2: 31.7
Temperature after lapping, Run 3: Well, what's the point, really?


Conclusion

As expected, the performance suffered from lapping down the bow. Though I never expected it to suffer this much!

What did we learn?

- The HK 3.0 has a slightly bowed base.
- It's nice to see your reflection in a block's base but not necessarily a good thing.
- Shane is willing to wreck his stuff in the name of science... :bsod:

Cheers,
Shane

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

Seeing that the block is bowed and that I am basically flattening out that bow makes me guess that I won't be doing this block's performance any good. But I started it, so I might as well go through with it.

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But it's bowed wrong way isn't it? That's kind a weird to have it bowed inward. :nono:

edit. Anyway I'm eagerly waiting for your (and others) results as I'm coming back to watercooling soon.

Imho...-1°c?:d

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MF Traum

But it's bowed wrong way isn't it? That's kind a weird to have it bowed inward. :nono:

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I don't think it is bowed the wrong way.

Indeed. It look like concave to me ...unless my eyes are deceiving me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MF Traum

But it's bowed wrong way isn't it? That's kind a weird to have it bowed inward. :nono:

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No, the center portion is bowed outwards (towards CPU), so it's making full contact with the sandpaper. The scratches around the outside are where the sandpaper wasn't really making anything but accidental contact during the lapping.

No, it was bowed the right way (convex). I had a look at the picture and see what the problem is: The light is reflecting off the parts that made less contact with the sandpaper and so they appear bright. The darker spots are actually more finely sanded because they made good contact with the sandpaper, but because of the angle, the light isn't reflecting off of them.

EDIT: What he (poster above me) said. :p:

I suspect performance to be worse now... It will really depend on how bowed it was before you lapped... always best to lap with the base removed from the block if you want to try to keep a bow.

now its bowed...hmmm what does the manufacturer say about it?

My guess is that you'll see no performance improvement or even a little worse performance, since a little bit of convexity puts more pressure on the die itself which may be a good thing, even on a lapped CPU. Differences will be marginal though, less than 0.5C for sure, more like 0.2C so you can't even be sure whether it's not a measuring error.

Quote:

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Nickel020 checked the base of his HK 3.0 and reported that it was completely flat, as far as I recall.

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I can't say it's completely flat but it is the flattest i have seen. And I do ahve quite a few blocks here: Alphacool Nexxxos Xp + Nexxxos X2, EK Supreme + Ek Supreme LT (and an old Wave^^), the Watercool Heatkiller 3.0 CU, D-Tek Fuzion V1 and V2 as well as a Swiftech GTX. I don't want to go into the air coolers as well...

I'll try to visit my dad and borrow his camera, my camera is broken and the camera in my mobile phone isn't good enough.

PS: If you wonder why I have so many coolers, it's simple: I plan to review them all :) But I need all the testing equipment (bench table, digital temp sensors, rotameter...) first before I will publish results. And I need to finish building my website... I don't want publish any results or even do much testing with analog temp sensors only, because I'd like to attain a high standard and provide accurate results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nickel020

I can't say it's completely flat but it is the flattest i have seen.

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Did you check it by plain eyes or by razor blade or something like that :eh:?
iirc I can see the bow using razor blade on Fuzion V1 when I bow them with o-ring.

Ah, okay, I thought wrong. It looked like the middlepart wasn't touching sandpaper and I clearly read HESmelaugh's comments wrong. :down:

Wouldn't it be easy to check flatness with a piece of glass and a drop of water? I mean if razorbladetest is difficult with such a large base.

OMG HES, how can you lap a bowed block.

You did the biggest goof any noob can do. :shakes:

Razor test everything b4 you lap.

Bleh its hard to get rid of a bow, takes MANY MANY HOURS of lapping, and you need to keep the entire center even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nickel020

I can't say it's completely flat but it is the flattest i have seen.

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Thanks for clarifying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Tell you what,

Unless the block is really bowed, you can't tell by laying a str8 edge on it. The bow in the OP's picc is only showing up because of the lapping. A lot of people are reporting flat blocks, when in fact alot of them have slight bows just like this one. The base might be flat when they are manufactured, and it may be intended not to have a bow, but most always distort their shape when attached to the blocks top plate. Copper is a very flexible metal. It distorts it's shape very easily when pressure is applied form any one direction.

the original D-Tek Fuzion v1's bow was actually more of a mistake found after assembling the block IIRC the story. That mistake caused the base to bow out, or convex, which applied more mechanical pressure to the IHS thus improving thermal performance. The post describing the anonmaly is still on the forum somewhere dating from around Feb 2007.

People like nikhsub1 expanded upon that, and found increasing the bow even more improved the thermal performance. Thus, a bowed or stepped base is better. But evidently, that's changing somewhat with the newer blocks. At least it would appear so.

andyc

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Interesting, I didn't know any of that.
I didn't disassemble the block for lapping because the base is quite thin and it would have been very difficult to hold and move accross the sandpaper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

OMG HES, how can you lap a bowed block.

You did the biggest goof any noob can do. :shakes:

Razor test everything b4 you lap.

Bleh its hard to get rid of a bow, takes MANY MANY HOURS of lapping, and you need to keep the entire center even.

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You seem to have a tendency to overreact, good sir. :p:

The base was only slightly bowed and it didn't take very long to lap it down. I realize that this will probably worsen performance, but I started this to see if there would be a difference and what would the point be if I just pussied out as soon as I saw the block was bowed?

I'll survive having lapped a block without benefit to temps.

It's been known for a while that anything beyond 800 grit does not improve transfer. Polished bases are purely cosmetic (and worthless IMO).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

OMG HES, how can you lap a bowed block.

You did the biggest goof any noob can do. :shakes:

Razor test everything b4 you lap.

Bleh its hard to get rid of a bow, takes MANY MANY HOURS of lapping, and you need to keep the entire center even.

---

:hehe: Give me a mill and a fly cutter and I'll have it gone in a few mins. :hehe:

Thanks HESmelaugh, I at least was curious about the effect. That base looked pretty flat to me when I put in on yesterday. Like I mentioned I just used the slide on my caliper and id did not rock on the base. Not a razor blade flat I'll admit but flat enough imo. Interested in what, if any effect, that is actually going to have.
Hopefully it's still flat. I never did any lapping myself because I always felt that I would "lopside" it if you know what I mean.
Thanks for taking the leap on an awesome block, imho. I know I wasn't the only one curious, or who perceived a flat base on it either.

First post updated...

Oh that sux Shane. What will you do to the block ? Sell them at luxx :D or is it possible to bow them back ?

thanks for the effort, now I won't lap my 2 LT's...

thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

First post updated...

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Took one for the team :up:.....Now we know....ummmm was going to do the whole GiJoe thing but never mind!

Meh... you need to LAP it til its all FLAT....

unless u have a mill good luck.

This is why i said many many hours of lapping..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparda

Oh that sux Shane. What will you do to the block ? Sell them at luxx :D or is it possible to bow them back ?

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Yeah, I'm gonna sell it somewhere: "Special edition HK 3.0 with super mirror-polished base! Only 10% more expensive than the standard HK 3.0!"

Hope the buyer never finds this thread... :p:

No, seriously: I don't know what I'll do next. Maybe try andyc's suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Dude, I commend your effort non the less. Now that you've gone this far. Try removing the base, lapping again, reassemble and see if the bow performance comes back. Would be interesting to see if the distortion comes back after removing the base.

Or, you could just forget I ever mentioned this if it's to painful.

andyc

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I might give this a shot next time I'm bored. Thanks for the suggestion. :)

What grit was used for the final finish?

I've found that about 800 grit performs the best, I have gone up to a perfectly polished 2000 grit surface and lost a couple degrees of gain.

I have a thread somewhere showing E8500 IHS lapped with different grits. The real key is FLAT not polished :)

Is the CPU lapped?

I bet you get better performance again if you lap the CPU.

Just as I thought. Try to relap unassembled... it may fix it.

everytime I lapped anything I lap for 10 minutes while watching tv and take a break as your hand cramps up then I go at it again I lapped my TRUE over the course of 3 days so when I lap something I lap it good

as somebody already asked:

what about the ihs?

if the ihs itself is not completely flat it might have been in better contact with the unlapped block before lapping.

if the block was convex before lapping and the ihs is concave this might have resulted in perfect contact. now lapping the block completely flat and putting it on the still concave ihs might lead to a bad contact in the center of the ihs, just at the die area!

check the ihs and report back...

Don't mess with German craftsmanship it's already perfect!

Jks aside too bad I would try to re-lap it using the 15min each direction in straight angle rule and start with lower grid.

Another important thing you didn't mention: Is the cpu lapped?

Yeah, this same thing will happen with the Fuzion blocks if you try to lap them assembled.

If you want to lap them you always need to take them apart first and lap with the base all by itself.

The bowing doesn't show until they are assembled, but at least this confirms the base is actually bowed slightly..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozzfest05

everytime I lapped anything I lap for 10 minutes while watching tv and take a break as your hand cramps up then I go at it again I lapped my TRUE over the course of 3 days so when I lap something I lap it good

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Damn, you can not lap things so long time, you will take off to much of water block material, after all it can all ended up with damaged block base after all :ROTF:
I dont know about base thinness of HK 3.0, but Enzotech-LUNA base is only 1mm, after all I think HK ir even more thinner, maybe 0.5 to 0.7mm as it performs really great!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/...12b1ba.jpg?v=0

So too much long laping will damage block after all, thats my opinion, and no need to lap more as the base is flat pretty soon when laping with correct type of sandpaper :)

I've polished the base without any adverse effect and it took the machine marks out, but these findings are correct the bottom is bowed slightly.

I put this block on a glass table the day I got it. I could have told you it has a very slight bow without having to lap it to find out :D

That said, it has much less of a bow than the Supreme.

Have you tested your newly flat HK on a lapped CPU?

The bow is very slight though, definitely smaller than on the EK Supreme and EK Supreme LT. Can't talk about the Fuzion V2 because that's currently in use :)

HES if your gonna relap it after you pulled the base off, start with 200 grit -> 800 grit.

Use 200 grit sp until you notice your sanding the entire base. Then use 400 -> 600 -> 800. You can go 1000 if you want.

But start at 200.

HES i was told not to jump sand paper when lapping. By jumping sand paper, you create uneven surfaces, so go 200 -> 400 -> 600 -> 800

One concern I'd have with relapping now is the thickness of that base. Does anyone know how thick it actually is?

Is your CPU lapped? what is it @?

get a drill .. with sanding heat bit

get the wool cover, with polishing compound

it's cut the works to 2 mins tops and you're done

Damn and I was going to lap my HK 3.0 CU got the sandpaper and everything...

Is your cpu lapped btw?

Yes my CPU is lapped.

Thanks for the feedback and tips, everyone. I'll give lapping it diassembled a go and see what happens.

screw that base, get a new one dirctly from watercool in germany and cut the old one in 2 pieces so we know how deep those channels are :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by generics_user

screw that base, get a new one dirctly from watercool in germany and cut the old one in 2 pieces so we know how deep those channels are :up:

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That's another nice idea. Though I've already messed with the base and I guess one of these measuring caliper thingies would do the job of telling the channel-depth less destructively. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

...
- Shane is willing to wreck his stuff in the name of science... :bsod:
...

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What have you done to the nice cooler :( :slapass: :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Dude, I commend your effort non the less. Now that you've gone this far. Try removing the base, lapping again, reassemble and see if the bow performance comes back. Would be interesting to see if the distortion comes back after removing the base.

Or, you could just forget I ever mentioned this if it's to painful.

andyc

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I am very curious if this works as well! I wonder if they manufactured the bottom plate to bow or if it was flat to start then deformed after mounting (intentionally or unintentionally).

I guess you could tell right away when you remove the plate and begin lapping if it is the mound that deforms the plate you would have a reverse pattern from what was seen in post 1 of this thread.

I was reading of the benefits of lapping so I like an idiot lapped the Heatkiller 3.0! Its pretty smooth and flat now. No damage that I can detect. I did a mock TIM spreading and I can say that it spreads pretty evenly for a block that use to have a slight raise the size of a quarter. Personally I don't think it will amount to a hill of beans in temp savings or not. Its all how you apply your tim anyhow. I guess I'm old school in that I would like as much as flat contact against the cpu. I didn't see that happening before...

Well, it looks like the second part of this thread was eaten by the downtime-goblin...

I relapped the base of the HK after removing it from the top. That way, when you attach the lapped base back to the top, it bows again and you basically get exactly what you started out with. Same bow, same temps, etc.

So if disassembled the block before lapping, it didn't hurt your temps. :up:

I just got myself a HK 3.0 ( did not lap it). Now this is what it looks like with TIM on it:

http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...646074-750.jpg

Pressure is max, according to the info in booklet it's around 250N

From the looks of it the TIM does make very good contact in the middle but not around the edges.
Do I need to lap the IHS of my Q9650? my hunch says yes. I get the feeling the TIM has to be much more equal distributed over the CPU block for optimal contact and performance

i would try lapping the CPU, if you don't plan on warrantying it, that is. it'd be interesting to see the TIM imprint after wards.

it looks fine. you want the best pressure in the middle anyway, since that's where the cores are, and where the heat is generated first. by lapping it and the CPU you run the risk of making it so that the edges have the best pressure, and the middle doesnt get what it needs for pressure.

this thread already stated that lapping the HK and the CPU will give you NO IMPROVEMENTS. so... don't worry about that 1c you might get. You're better off adding more fans in push-pull, or more powerful fans, over lapping.

Well ,,
From the look of the STOCK HKBase," it puts preshure in a line":shrug:. Arnt Intel Cores lower and this preshure is now above the cores instead of in the middle? If so i guesse the line is designed to run only One way for Intel correct. So Then you have the Phenoms they need a Nickel or Quarter size CIRCLE of preshure in the middle.

HK is designed to put preshure where the Intel chips need it. Make shure that you Install the Block so this patch/line runs across all your cores for Intels. If its mounted Pacth going opisite of cores , you may see higher temps because two cores wont get cooled as much. You can clearly see that. Phenom/PhenomII Die is Dead center not a line down the center or lower.

I wonder if it can be modded to apply a better circle contact patern instead of a line. This W/b is designed for Intel but they also sell it for PhenomII. Im tempted to get one but am afraid it wont give me the correct contact patch im looking for.

Note:
If you look at the Base "bolt pattern" it explains why it leaves a line insted of a circle.
Two short width sides =2x screw at each end, Thus less force than the long sides x3 screw.
I woulda made the block with 8 or 4 bolts for the Base instead of 6. This would make a perfect circle .

Beside that ,
Thermal paste,,how much and why

Even with a UNLAPPED W/B Hes using too much paste. about 75% is sqeezed where its not needed.

Once its lapped(OP) you will use a lot less . Actually Half or even "less than" half the Amount you would normally use.

A lot of people still use a Grain size dot. That is actually too much with these ne W/B's and better IHS's . Even a half grain dot can be too much depending on surface of W/B alone .

I usually use half a half dot ,,then spread to a almost see through haze method. MXII, AS5 NT1 and that G stuff will all use half the normal amount or less.

I did experiments a while back when the V1/V2 came out . I took the Bow out to use on Stock IHS . It actually performed the same or better and well with a lot less paste. The best gains were with the W/B and IHS lapped .


Experiments come in handy ,, Try this method before you alter the W/B back to a bow. You might find it interesting.


1st
Put on amount of Paste youd normally use,,

2nd
place and mount W/B.

3rd
Remove and wipe off W/B only not IHS.

4th
Do not wipe the IHS,,Respread the paste thats left on IHS.
(plasti wrap finger) works well for this or glove.

5th
I do the above two times back to back . The C's should drop each time.

If the temp goes up , instead of down ,,you only need to perform method #3ONCE.

I origanally used the drop meathod for about 10years , the drop and Squish method with w/b. Ive since found this to be Too much on a lapped surface while using the New paste over last few years.

Some paste will react better than others on a smoother surface. Even though the IHS is stock and rough. The W/B still has twice as fine and prabally 4x as many Micro pores from lapping .It will only use half the amount to do the same job. Thus when you apply the normal amount it just gets turned into a insulation and sqeezed out the side.

A sloppy or well applied paste makes or breaks a great Lap Job:D

The Heatkiller is growing on me .Its a bit bulky and Bolts coulda been resessed more or use of shorter head. Overall nice rugged type block it seems.

Well im Old school ,,
what my little V1 gets me with lapped base(stock IHS 720BE).
Just a quik little run. My CPUvid 1.55and NBvid is 1.45v @1.56vcore here:D


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...llbenchrun.jpg

I dont know the best method , but i do know this does work with any W/B regardless of it Being lapped.

gOtVolTage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gOtVoltage

Well ,,
From the look of the STOCK HKBase," it puts preshure in a line":shrug:. Arnt Intel Cores lower and this preshure is now above the cores instead of in the middle? If so i guesse the line is designed to run only One way for Intel correct. So Then you have the Phenoms they need a Nickel or Quarter size CIRCLE of preshure in the middle.

HK is designed to put preshure where the Intel chips need it. Make shure that you Install the Block so this patch/line runs across all your cores for Intels. If its mounted Pacth going opisite of cores , you may see higher temps because two cores wont get cooled as much. You can clearly see that. Phenom/PhenomII Die is Dead center not a line down the center or lower.

...
gOtVolTage

---

That's what I was thinking also. The cores of a quad are just below and above the horizontal line, I get the idea that the outer area's are getting to little pressure from the looks of it, and the two outer cores are running warmer, this seems to be the case because two cores run like 10 to 12 degrees hotter than the other two. With my former D-Tek Fuzion rev1 block the differences were more like 5 degrees.

The placement of the block is correct i think. Also when i look at these pictures:
http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...683805-930.jpg
http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...683980-930.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9...iller1suy0.jpghttp://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2...iller2soo9.jpg

The quadcore manifold is vertical. If I were to turn the block 90 degrees, so that the pressure line becomes vertical,then it would indeed put the most pressure on the the cores.
But then the quadcore nozzle would become horizontal and you don't have the water injected above each core-package, which will result in higher temps.

I'll try you method of applying the TIM. Sounds you know what you're talking about. I agree that it looks i've used too much TIM

T'would appear common knowledge is being lost into the depths of time - haven't checked but I guess these links have been omitted from the stickies by now... http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=329453 & http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ht=anatomy+bow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gOtVoltage

...

1st
Put on amount of Paste youd normally use,,

2nd
place and mount W/B.

3rd
Remove and wipe off W/B only not IHS.

4th
Do not wipe the IHS,,Respread the paste thats left on IHS.
(plasti wrap finger) works well for this or glove.

5th
I do the above two times back to back . The C's should drop each time.

If the temp goes up , instead of down ,,you only need to perform method #3ONCE.
....

---

Okay I did as you suggested, now when i remove the block it looks like this:

http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...690102-210.jpg
I'll fire up my sytem and see if reapplying the TIM did some good.

Yup thats what it should look like..


See how it looks like a haze and that it has filled the pores in the center W/B with out wasting Paste. The Smoother a surfacr the less it will use no matter what.


These new paste are pretty amazing and are so close in performance . It really comes down to How much and the shape contact of W/B.


Try it, .....
The HK is built nice for Intels i tell ya. Little tweaks can make a differance.

Hmm maybe a hair more PRESHURE to left . Im just picky LOL. It can take a few tries to get it just right. Once you have tried this method it gets way easier with each CPU Change/W/B change. It allows you to see exactly How the paste is needed by IHS/W/B. Its also makes it easier to Remove W/B during CPU changes too.

Less paste = Less prybar to remove.

Youll be surprized at how much less paste this actually takes. I know i was

This is the type of detail i do with every build , no matter the cost of system.

Well my temps with my former D-Tek Fuzion have gone down 2 degrees. So kudos to you for pointing out that paste issue.
I also lapped the IHS on my Q9650 this afternoon, but it made no difference for temps with the HK 3.0 block. Also the pressure line looked the same before and after lapping the IHS.

However I have rather conflicting results with my HK 3.0 block. I was under the impression that the HK 3.0 performs better than the D-Tek Fuzion.
So I did some test runs with both blocks, I jotted down idle temps and the highest temps (LinX running ten runs). This is what I got

HK 3.0 + Q9650 with stock IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 /67
HK 3.0 + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 / 67

D-Tek + Q9650 with stock IHS: idle 35 / 35 / 37 /31 full load 77 / 77 /67 / 69
D-Tek + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 33 / 32 / 37 /28 full load 73 / 73 /65 /65

I actually could't believe the results at first. Then I started thinking, could it be that the IHS on my Q9650 was already flat to begin with. Before lapping I drew a black cross on the IHS to see I if the IHS was bowed , when I just started lapping the cross equaly dissapeared, to that does indeed point to an already flat IHS.

My D-Tek Fuzion block is just a little bowed (using the washer that come with the nozzle kit), the HK 3.0 is far more bowed. So could one say that an bowed block is only useful when you got an bowed IHS? I was not expecting the HK 3.0 to perform this much worse opposed to my Fuzion block. I bought the block for improving my temps, not make them worse.

It happens sometimes,,Ive kept the V1/V2 because it perform on just about anything.

I wonder how the HK would perform with out the Nozzel plate. I almost wonder if the plate restricts it too much.

You could even try loosing the TWO outer bolts on each side a hair to where there not as snugg as the Single bolt side on each end . that will make the Contact area grow too.

Only loosen enuff to take some flex of the Long side of block. The sides a hair and then leak test it before ya mount it. If it passes the leak test id give it another shot.

It probally has to much bow for your IHS like you were saying.

I know i like to tweak things:D

Those numbers with the Fusion are pretty nice too.

I tested again, now without the Nozzle plate, and temps are basicly the same, today is a hot day and room temps are about 1.5 degrees higher then yesterday, so it's perhaps a little hard compare, but still , the temps are far higher than with the Fuzion block installed. I also took al look at the baseplate of my Fuzion when switching and it indeed looks like the Fuzion is making far better contact overal, it looks like a circular bow with a tad more presure on the second die-package, which seemes to correspond with my temps being lower for core 3 and 4.

I'm sticking with the Fuzion I think. Will test your suggestion for loosening up the two outer bolts. But I'm a little wary for using that 24/7 eventhough I can run a leek test before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gOtVoltage

...

I wonder how the HK would perform with out the Nozzel plate. I almost wonder if the plate restricts it too much.

You could even try loosing the TWO outer bolts on each side a hair to where there not as snugg as the Single bolt side on each end . that will make the Contact area grow too.

Only loosen enuff to take some flex of the Long side of block. The sides a hair and then leak test it before ya mount it. If it passes the leak test id give it another shot.

It probally has to much bow for your IHS like you were saying.

....

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Okay , I tried your suggestion. The block seems to make some better contact, but is still bowed in a line. Also I removed the quad nozzle but that doesn't seems to have an impact on the temps. Results are still a few degrees higher than my best temps with my Fuzion block:

HK 3.0 with significant bow + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 / 67

HK 3.0 with less bow with nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 / 30 full load 77 / 77 /73 / 73

HK 3.0 with less bow no nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 / 30 full load 77 / 77 /73 / 73

D-Tek Fuzion1 small bow with nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 33 / 32 / 37 /28 full load 73 / 73 /65 / 65

So no HK 3.0 for me anymore. Too bad the shop I bought it from won't take back used watercool products. But I'm sure I get rid of it second hand for a good price.

I'm waiting on my Heatkiller now, but I have a question.
I already have a lapped cpu (i7 920 D0), you think it's worth lapping the block once it arrives?
If it is convex, could lapping it actually hurt the temps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WeeMaan

I'm waiting on my Heatkiller now, but I have a question.
I already have a lapped cpu (i7 920 D0), you think it's worth lapping the block once it arrives?
If it is convex, could lapping it actually hurt the temps?

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To answer your Q:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HESmelaugh

. . .snip. . .
Conclusion

As expected, the performance suffered from lapping down the bow. Though I never expected it to suffer this much!

What did we learn?

- The HK 3.0 has a slightly bowed base.
- It's nice to see your reflection in a block's base but not necessarily a good thing.
- Shane is willing to wreck his stuff in the name of science... :bsod:

Cheers,
Shane

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I know everyone is into lapping them down and making them flat, which obviously isn't always good.

However, has anyone considered simply polishing the surface that's already formed? IE., taking the HK 3.0 to my 8" buffer wheel and using some copper compound and mirror polishing whatever shape they already machined?

Jon, read the first link from Marci above... polishing is overrated... you don't need to see your gorgeous face on the bottom of your block in order to get nice temps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon K

I know everyone is into lapping them down and making them flat, which obviously isn't always good.

However, has anyone considered simply polishing the surface that's already formed? IE., taking the HK 3.0 to my 8" buffer wheel and using some copper compound and mirror polishing whatever shape they already machined?

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Using any kind of polish compound for something intended on transferring heat isn't gonna be good. The job of tim is to fill microscopic spaces, but if packed with polish, its won't work as well.

There is lines left from the mill I think on the hk. So the surface isn't 100% smooth. Maybe just take a 1200grit paper and lap it with your hand so it don't get flat but it gets shiny? Would that be a good idea? Just to get down the "reffels" or how I should describe it?

But so far? A non lapped HK3.0 with a lapped cpu is best?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brodholm

...Just to get down the "reffels" or how I should describe it?...

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it's RUFFLES... as in RRRUFFLES have Ridges!
http://jadeandandy.com/customers/3795/ruffles.jpg

:D

So what if both the cpu and the HK r lapped? i would think 2 flat surfaces would b way better then a convex surface for the tim to bond 2, also could you use the indigo extreme on lapped cpu's and blocks? as i noticed it is odish shaped, but you have to "flow it with your cpu pretty much level if i have read right, thinking of getting another cpu and redoing my wc loop and and doing something to my HK base as i can feel small machining ridges with my finger nail....and was considering lapping my IHS as i have taking them off every a64 i have ever owned, and i havnt seen any of that with the new x4 cores, r they epoxied, glued or soldered on now like the intels?

Dragon

ahh serious, i lapped my cpu and noticed my temps were rather crap!