Modding Phoenix BIOS to add CPU support

Hi there,

I haven't seen BIOS modding threads on xs for a longer time but i hope someone can help me though (looking back on past times a lot of this stuff was going on right here....)

My problem is the following:

I'm building a retro workstation and decided to give Intel's Xeon MP 7140M CPUs a try. I use a Supermicro X6DA3-G2 which i imported as spare part directly from Supermicro to Europe. The board is new and tested with my little 2,8 GHz Xeon DP Nocona but won't boot using one or two Xeon MP Tulsa CPUs. They don't even get hot and the power LED stays off, fans spin but no picture.

I know that those CPUs aren't supposed to run on dual socket platforms, but as they should run on every dual-core ready Socket 604 MP board designed for the older Paxville core, they should also run technically on every dual socket Paxville-ready board which the X6DA3-G2 actually is...

I already dropped Supermicro Netherlands a mail, but they stated that no Xeon MP would run in a DP platform (which is officially true, but actually, they mostly do). Yesterday i wrote Supermicro US another mail explaining what i'm trying to do, hopefully someone can help me there regarding the situation more realistic.

So, my question is:

- What is happening technically when the board is not booting with the CPUs?

- Anyone out there who is familiar modding Phoenix BIOS? I can provide the original BIOS as well as a BIOS from a quad socket board which natively supports the Tulsas.

Thanks in advance guys!

Please provide links for your current BIOS
and another supermicro BIOS with the cpu listed as working
thanks

Okay, here we go

X6DA3-G2 (my board) newest BIOS version (2.0C) - http://www.supermicro.com/support/re...le.aspx?ID=175

X6QT8 (quad socket board supporting 7100) newest BIOS version (1.2A) - http://www.supermicro.com/support/re...le.aspx?ID=241

The Quadsocket board supports 7100 series Xeon MP as stated on Supermicro's homepage, but only up to 2MB L3 Cache which is the smallest model of 7100 series. I think because of thermal reasons. My CPUs have 16 MB L3 Cache, but i think this BIOS should work for them.

Can you see what CPUs are supported? (read out the names or something)

Thanks :)

//Edit:

Here a link to download the BIOS of a HP DL580 G4 server which is designed to run my CPUs (7140M with large cache):

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...4bb5a65a4a551a

Hello

Can you tell me your BIOS
what brand is it ?

thanks

EDIT ///
I can not open your rom file
(your boards it just crashs, have you got a previous release of the BIOS)
thanks

It's AMI like stated in the title of the thread.

A previous version... only 2.0B Beta with support for symmetrical RAM mode

http://rapidshare.com/files/198962094/X6DA8.zip.html

I tried it yesterday myself and got an error, i thought i was using the wrong programm... my first attempt to mod a BIOS :)

//Edit: It's Phoenix. My mistake.

whats the password

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

It's AMI like stated in the title of the thread.

A previous version... only 2.0B Beta with support for symmetrical RAM mode

http://rapidshare.com/files/198962094/X6DA8.zip.html

I tried it yesterday myself and got an error, i thought i was using the wrong programm... my first attempt to mod a BIOS :)

---

ive never seen an error like that before.
what were you trying to use ?

amibcp 2.5.x iirc - cant tell exactly, sitting in front of my macbook, tried it at my dad's computer yesterday.

I've already read about different versions of AMI BIOS, you can read of "Version 8" often. Maybe something thats related to this? (e.g. you need different versions auf AMIBCP to open different kinds of AMI BIOS?)

Sorry, i'm a total noob at this stuff.

P.S.: PW via PM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

amibcp 2.5.x iirc - cant tell exactly, sitting in front of my macbook, tried it at my dad's computer yesterday.

I've already read about different versions of AMI BIOS, you can read of "Version 8" often. Maybe something thats related to this?

Sorry, i'm a total noob at this stuff.

---

the core8 you are reffering to isnt avalible to us...
its the proper BIOS editor.

whats the password to the archive you have uploaded.

So Core8 AMI BIOS is a new version which is used on new boards and can't be editied?

What kind of version is used on those SM boards?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

So Core8 AMI BIOS is a new version which is used on new boards and can't be editied?

What kind of version is used on those SM boards?

---

Basically the tools we have are rather crap
the "core 8" is the actual tool AMI use to make the BIOS

Okay, thanks for the information. Just checked my version of AMIbcp, it's 2.43

Ive used all my AMI tools,
and cant open the BIOS

I can HEX into it, but that would make checksums bad.

Mh... strange. I just found Core8 on a ftp, but i'm not on a x86 machine. I'll drop you a link via PM.

Yes those tools wont work,
Ive tried some of them.

They complain that the BIOS size is invalid..
some they it is not an AMI BIOS

Hence my orginal question - confirming it was an AMI BIOS

This is bizzar

Mh... strange.

I just checked the product detail page, where is written "8Mb Flash EEPROM with Phoenix® BIOS" - not AMI. Maybe the sheet attached to the board was wrong?

//Edit: Just booted the board with nocona and checked. It's Phoenix. ARGH. My mistake. Sorry for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

Mh... strange.

I just checked the product detail page, where is written "8Mb Flash EEPROM with Phoenix® BIOS" - not AMI. Maybe the sheet attached to the board was wrong?

---

:ROTF:
Its suprising ... what happens when you give me the right information :rofl:

Sorry for that. AMI came somehow in my mind, i would have swear on that version. Checked the manual, even there: "Phoenix". Ouch. Sorry again Oo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

Sorry for that. AMI came somehow in my mind, i would have swear on that version. Checked the manual, even there: "Phoenix". Ouch. Sorry again Oo.

---

Right.
do you know of another phoenix based mobo that uses the cpus you want working ?

thanks

I'm currently looking for such a board. Have you checked the HP ProLiant BIOS from the link in post #3? Which brand is that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by symphy

I'm currently looking for such a board. Have you checked the HP ProLiant BIOS from the link in post #3? Which brand is that?

---

I dont have tools for HP:(

So HP, Dell etc. is a own brand?

Beside the HP Server, Dell Poweredge 6850 also uses Tulsa:
http://support.dell.com/support/down...id=-1&impid=-1


Transplanting from an AMI BIOS to a Phoenix BIOS doesn't work? (Supermicro's own Quad Socket mainboard uses AMI)

Please check the SM X6QT8 BIOS. On the Product Page is displayed "AMI", but the manuals for the servers which uses this board state "Phoenix". The link is posted in post #3 as well.

Is it Phoenix oder AMI?

That is a AMI BIOS.

Do you have the SL codes for the Intel Chip?

SL Code? Do you mean the stepping?

It's SL9HA.... my ES are QQBB.

Hey,

Some Updates: I tried it by myself and failed... okay, but i got some informations.

I found the CPU Microcodes for the CPUs in the BIOS of the X6QT8 Quad Socket Mainboard (i used MMTool for that..)

I copied and opened them with a HEX editior, together with the CPU file of the X6DA3-G2 which i wanted to edit...

After pasting and putting it in the right place i flashed the new bios... but no boot. It was my first try, so i dont care... i'll order a new bioschip 2morrow, no problem.

The good thing: After screwing up the BIOS, the board shows now with the little Nocona the same behaviour like with the Tulsas. So microcode missing -> LED off, CPU stays cold, no picture.

I think i screwed up the BIOS during pasting the microcodes for Tulsa. Please help!

Over at new rebels haven i got asked for some screenshots... i post them here, too. any ideas?

I redid the mod in order to take screenshots and recognized some things that COULD HAVE BEEN my mistakes (e.g. errors counting and inserting lines etc.)

The way shown in the screenshots is how i would do it now, please take care of that.



EDIT: THE WAY DESCRIBED BELOW AND SHOWN ON THE PICTURES IS WRONG! PLEASE DONT REFER TO IT! I'LL POST AN UPDATE ASAP!



Okay, let's go:

1. I opened the original PHOENIX BIOS with the Phoenix Bios Editior and backuped the CPU Patch file.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/1t4h1.png

2. Now i opened the AMI BIOS of the Quad Socket board with MMTools and searched for the right CPU string. As you can see, i used the Intel Spec Finder to identify the right one. Saved the string to HDD.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/2o7j8.png

3. Now i opened the extracted CPU string file (left side in the picture) and the CPU data file of the original BIOS (right side in the picture) with a HEX editor. It seems like all microcodes start with 0100 ...

http://www.abload.de/thumb/3j586.png

4. Some more research. Between each microcode of the CPU patch file are exactly the same amounts of zeros, then another microcode starts.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/461nx.png

5. Copy and paste action. I copied the code for the new CPU and pasted it right above the first code in the original file.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/595u0.png

6. Now i scrolled down again and copied the amount of zeros between the microcodes...

http://www.abload.de/thumb/6fahv.png

7. ... and pasted it between the microcode for the new CPU and the microcode of the (former) first CPU in that file.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/7511u.png

Note: My mistake could be happened here. I maximized the window and messed up the "form". The microcodes ended or started in the middle of a line, i had to fill up free space with additional F's and zeros. Maybe i did a mistake here. If you just keep the window in the size it opens, all fits nicely...

8. ... as you can see here, too.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/8d4rn.png

9. Now i had a look at all those F's at the beginning. Must be something like "placeholders?"

http://www.abload.de/thumb/912p6.png

Note: In fact, i tried to flash the BIOS at this time, but the read-in failed. So i decided to remove some of the F's until the modded file is as long as the original one.

10. Here again: You can see here that the modded file is of course longer (modded one one the right side, original one on the left)

http://www.abload.de/thumb/1042e3.png

11. I ereased the needed amount of F's to make it fit.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/11r5n5.png

http://www.abload.de/thumb/12ybyq.png

12. Now it was just putting the files together again...

Choosing the modded CPU data file

http://www.abload.de/thumb/133b4d.png

And building the BIOS

http://www.abload.de/thumb/14j9y9.png

That's EXACTLY the way i would do it now if i had to do it again.

Sometimes,
using phonix BIOS Editor can have odd effects.

I cant see any mistakes in what you have done.
The ideal way of probably doing it, and the way I have seen it work many times
is to import other mobos microcode in. - Ive always had issues and phonix BIOS Editor.
Hence the orginal route :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ibby

Sometimes,
using phonix BIOS Editor can have odd effects.

I cant see any mistakes in what you have done.
The ideal way of probably doing it, and the way I have seen it work many times
is to import other mobos microcode in. - Ive always had issues and phonix BIOS Editor.
Hence the orginal route :)

---

Sorry, i don't get you. Import other mobos microcode in? So just take another CPU data file and replace the original one (how to replace it without Phoenix BIOS Editior?)

In addition, i dont know of a single board which is using Phoenix BIOS and is capable of running Tulsa.

//Edit: Another idea. I still have the faulty mod Bios from my first try on the floppy disk. I'll compare it later with the one i modded for taking the screenshots, maybe the mistakes are shown.

//Edit2: Tyan uses also Phoenix BIOS on their dual core ready mainboards, but the layout in HEX is slightly different.... no idea how to see which CPU's microcodes are included.

I just opened the newest BIOS version for my X6DA3-G2 in HEX and it's designed another way, too. I worked with a BETA version before... hm.

ibby, can you have a look at this? comparing beta 2.0b and final 2.0c

link me to the BIOS :)

Hm? they're in post 3.... 2.0c is the newest and 2.0b the one stored on rapidshare.

I identified every single code in the PHOENIX and AMI BIOS.

The way to do it i've shown above is WRONG.... i think the "F"s are needed. I found 2 microcodes in the Phoenix BIOS which have exactly the same length as the Tulsa microcodes and will try just to replace one of them... (e.g. there's one for 667 MHz FSB xeons which isn't needed at all...)

Have you tried simply extracting the P6 microcode and slotting it into your BIOS with MMTOOL?

Hey,

Some Updates: I have got new BIOS chips... i tried the following things up to now:

- just pasting the microcode of tulsa at the end of the UPDATE0.ROM no success
- replacing the dualcore microcode of the UPDATE0.ROM with the microcode of the tulsa no success

and, as Ket said: Just taking the P6 file of the X6QT8 renamed to UPDATE0.ROM - no success... But i used Phoenix BIOS Editor for that, MMTool won't work with those Phoenix BIOS....

BUT... my little single core nocona worked correctly with all these versions.

Another idea was to delete the content of the UPDATE0.ROM... so i deleted everything except the F's at the beginning and the tulsa microcode. no boot at all, even with my single core. so the microcode is important for booting up, not only for displaying the right cpu name etc.

Any other ideas why the tulsa CPUs isn't starting at all? It's electrically the same as the officially supported paxville dualcore, but 65nm instead of 90 nm. Could that be the problem?

//Edit:

Another thing that doesnt work:

- There are three microcodes for Paxville (CPU ID 0F48 - dual-core technically similar to Tulsa) inside the quad socket board bios. I took all three of them + the tulsa microcode + the microcode for my little testing cpu (in this order).... little CPU working, tulsa still no boot.

Any new ideas?

Do I really need to sell this stuff again? ...

I'm having similar problems with my MSI K9ND BIOS mods...

Inserting the microcode, making sure to follow conventions used for the rest of it, to UPDATE0.ROM results in POST getting stuck at code 85. This suggests that either UPDATE0 has an internal checksum, or that its size cannot be changed easily.
Trying with replacing other microcode POSTed when I restarted after the flash, but now just results in POST looping codes 11~85, can't record exactly which ones yet as they flash past too fast. My debug card has a history function though, so I'll try to record the process as fully as I can and try to figure out what's going on.

Interestingly, the above findings are with the 8mb, quad-core supporting BIOS, replacing quad-core microcode with the shorter microcode for the Athlon FXs that I want to get working.

With the 4mb BIOS, it is a completely different scenario - UPDATE0 in this BIOS is mostly blank (FF), suggesting microcode is stored elsewhere. However, the file it seems to be the same length as 2 microcode strings; inserting the Athlon FX microcode here results in the board POSTing and half-recongising the CPU (saying "CPU0 =Althon 64 FX-" during POST) but not recognising the exact model and therefore not setting correct Vcore or multiplier. It may be due to the FXs having unclocked multis, but I hope that isn't the case...

More hacking/testing tomorrow, hopefully.