Test Report: EK D5 X-Top Rev.2

EK D5 X-Top Rev.2
Laing D5 Pump Top

I want to thank Edvard from EK for providing a production sample of the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 for testing purposes. Eddy as he is known as at XtremeSystems and other forums, gladly sent the sample to be included in the D5 round-up. Once the top went into production he quickly sent the top along with another product from Slovenia to Minnesota for testing...thanks again Eddy!

For the full review, please visit skinnee labs


Intro

The EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 is the second revision of the EK D5 X-Top, this revision is entirely different from the original except for the EK styling and quality. Unfortunately, results were never released for Rev.1 and the performance numbers have always been left to speculation. Thanks to the Liquid Cooling community and their everlasting search for performance numbers coupled with the generousity of Eddy, we will not have to speculate on this revision.

The EK X-Top Rev.2 fits the Laing D5, which is re-branded by Swiftech (MCP655) and Koolance (PMP450). This top is a full replacement for the stock top that we all have become used to on the D5. Aftermarket tops have become standard for the Laing DDC series, but the D5 is new territory, I am happy to see another option for the D5 as the stock top has always left the users wanting to customize and push the solid D5 further.


EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 Kit


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/..._D5-EK_kit.jpg



I am no stranger to EK products, the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 is packaged in the familiar EK box. As with all EK products, the kit comes with everything you need to convert your stock D5 over to the EK top. As you can see in the picture above, the kit includes the impeller housing, backplate, mountplate and a bag of screws (8 M4x16mm button head & 2 M4x10mm flat head), allen wrench and a stop plug. The backplate in the kit eliminates the use of the ring collar on the D5. I was very happy to see the backplate on the EK kit, as the ring collar just does not work aesthetically when using an aftermarket top. The stop plug is included to plug either the front outlet or top outlet depending on which configuration you choose to implement, there is more on the outlets in the configuration options portion of the review along with tests for each of the configurations.

Note: The stock D5 mounting bracket is not used after converting your D5 to the EK X-Top Rev.2. The hole spacing is 35mm center to center on the EK mount plate versus 42mm center to center on the stock mount. Consideration must be made for your build when planning to incorporate the EK top.


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...K_internal.jpg


Installation

As with all aftermarket pump tops, you will have to remove the stock impeller housing. On the D5 this is quite easy, twist the large collar and slide it off the back of the pump motor...see, simple. Now with just the D5 motor and impeller in our hands, we can proceed to fitting the EK X-Top Rev.2.

I need to admit something here...looking at the parts I had sitting on the bench and the installation instructions I was confused for a minute or two as I looked everything over and read the instructions a few times. Due to my temporary confusion I decided to capture some photos of the major steps of the installation process.

The first step after removing the stock mounting, top and collar is to fit the top with the EK o-ring. The o-ring was hiding in the backplate on my kit, remove the o-ring from the backplate and slide it over the impeller to the outer lip. The results of fitting the o-ring is pictured below.


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...tall_oring.jpg


Second step for installation is sliding on the backplate, put the molex and cord through the plate and slide it up to the lip and o-ring.


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/..._backplate.jpg


Now, I set the impeller housing on the table and place the motor with backplate into it so I could align the motor with the speed selector where I wanted it.


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...nstall_top.jpg


With the motor situated where you want it and the impeller in the housing, start inserting the 8 M4x16mm screws. I used the socket 775 tightening method, by tightening the screws in an X pattern until everything was nice and snug. In the image below, you see the D5 all dressed up with the EK X-Top Rev.2 and a nice set of Bitspower High-Flow 1/2" fittings (skinnee labs standard fittings).


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...ll_secured.jpg


Configuration Options

The EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 has two different outlet configurations, a front inlet/top outlet and a front inlet/front outlet. Photos of the two different outlet configurations are below and each configuration was tested at all D5 speed settings. You can find the performance data below in the Test section, with a full test report listed under the speed setting scatter plots. I apologize now for the dust laiden photo of the front outlet. I did not realize it was that bad until processing and there is just far too much dust to clean it up.

Front Inlet / Top Outlet


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/..._topoutlet.jpg


Front Inlet / Front Outlet


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...rontoutlet.jpg


Test Setup and Methodology

For details on how to read P/Q Curves and my pump test specifications, please view the full review at skinnee labs

Test Methodology

The pump testing loop is a completely separate loop on the test bench. The pump test loop is comprised of a custom built half gallon PVC reservoir, and gate valve for controlling flow. Bitspower 1/2" High-Flow fittings were used for consistency across all D5 pump top tests. I use an assortment of measurement tools for pump testing, here is the list.

• Power: Mastech HY3005D (0-30V, 0-5A) Variable DC Power Supply
• Volt/Amp Measurement: Fluke 23 Series II Digital Multimeter
• Flow: King Instruments 7520 Rotameter, 0.5-5 GPM, 10" Scale
• Flow Control: 3/4" Inlet-Outlet Gate Valve.
• Pressure: Dwyer 490-3 Hydronic (Wet/Wet) Digital Manometer 0.00-50.00 PSI

For each configuration tested, the loop was bled and ran for 20 minutes prior to measurements taken. After 20 minutes, power to the pump was shutoff, and the Manometer was reset to zero PSI. This step ensures a proper measurement of the total dynamic pressure for the pump is recorded. Voltage is adjusted to 12.00 volts in order to achieve a constant voltage across all tests, voltage was verified prior to the 2 minute runtime and verified before measurements were recorded. Also to eliminate and pressure variation, each flow setting was , given a 2 minute runtime before measurements were recorded. For each flow setting the PSI, Voltage and Amperage are recorded.

Test Results

Here are the compiled scatter plots of the two configuration options for the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 as well as the Stock D5. Below each scatter plot is the test data for each inlet/outlet configuration at the specified speed setting.


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...EK_5-Chart.jpg
Front Inlet/Top Outlet ------ Front Inlet/Front Outlet ------Stock



http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...EK_4-Chart.jpg
Front Inlet/Top Outlet ------ Front Inlet/Front Outlet ------Stock



http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...EK_3-Chart.jpg
Front Inlet/Top Outlet ------ Front Inlet/Front Outlet ------Stock



http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...EK_2-Chart.jpg
Front Inlet/Top Outlet ------ Front Inlet/Front Outlet ------Stock



http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...EK_1-Chart.jpg
Front Inlet/Top Outlet ------ Front Inlet/Front Outlet ------Stock



Conclusion

The EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 was a different design that I was not anticipating, aesthetically I figured the design would be similar to the Rev.1. The change in design is definitely a plus, the backplate and dedicated mount plate are welcome changes. The capability of a top outlet or front outlet are also big benefits to the EK. This configuration option when laying out your loop might just be the piece you need to route tubing in a better manner. In addition to tube routing, the performance gains are only slightly reduced when using the front outlet over the top outlet. As with another of the D5 tops, the only real gripe I have is the mounting method. If you have previously drilled holes in your case for the stock D5 mounting bracket or (UN)Designs bracket you will have to drill at least one new hole to accomadate the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 mounting plate. The stock mounting bracket or (UN)Designs bracket cannot be used with this top.

Overall, the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2 is a great aftermarket D5 top. The top brings very nice performance gains from both outlet configurations. A well designed top, with backplate and mounting mechanism. If you're in the market for a D5 top, you cannot go wrong with the EK D5 X-Top Rev.2!

Pros

• Backplate for mounting the impeller housing
• Clean and secure installation
• G1/4 barbs, use any fittings you fancy
• Multiple inlet/outlet configurations give you tube routing options
• Large increases in flow and pressure across the typical restriction range
• Performance gains on both outlet configurations over stock
• Full kit to convert and mount with the top

Cons

• Mounting plate screw holes differ from the stock bracket, existing builds will need to drill new mounting holes (doesn't use stock bracket)

Awesome review! :up: Thank you so much for the work you put into this. Much appreciated! By the looks of things this new top has the same performance curve as the DetroitAC top.

Great review :up:!

Soon we will see everyone's PC populated by aftermarket D5 tops.

Well done Skinnee. Ranker gives 5 toes up for the quality of the review.

Are you considering doing a general comparison between all tops/pumps somewhere down the line? After you've accumulated a variety of reviews, may I suggest consolidating it all in one thread with a shortened version of each top and a general conclusive comparison between all the competitors. It'd do wonders for me to refer friends and family to specific threads. Just something to consider for the future. Great work in the mean time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ranker

Are you considering doing a general comparison between all tops/pumps somewhere down the line? After you've accumulated a variety of reviews, may I suggest consolidating it all in one thread with a shortened version of each top and a general conclusive comparison between all the competitors. It'd do wonders for me to refer friends and family to specific threads. Just something to consider for the future. Great work in the mean time.

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Yes, its in the works. I just have to save out the new Detroit Thermo and Koolance charts and the comparison is ready to post. I didn't expect Eddy to proof the review so quickly, I thought I had a day or two to finish saving out all the charts and what not.

Look for the comparison to be available this week.

Nice job, Skinnee! Can't wait to see more of your reviews with other tops

Couple of small points:
1) scale is not the same across differen charts which may fool some into believing that this top makes a bigger difference at lower speeds
2) while I do appreciate the fact that this top improves the D5s performance, I lack the scale of impact. I mean, yes, it's a little better but does it justify the investment? Comparison with other tops, even for DDC would be helpful i.e., something like "XSPC top improves DDC by XX% and this top improves D5 by XX%". This would give the reader a clear perspective on what kind of benefit this top brings to the table.

Another great review Skinee ! :clap:
Thanks for your hard work and effort.

It would be nice to see the EK top side by side with the DetroitAC top and the stock one, if you can.

Keep it up :up:

Great work skinnee! It appears that the D5 with Ek top scales pretty well from speed setting to speed setting, do you think it would continue to with increased pump voltage or do you think it was near the end of it's capability?

I was waiting for this review...thank you skinnee for all your work.
I guess it will be the next buy for me.

Thanks for the review!

thanks a lot skinnee for the review.... it is much appreciated! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eva2000

Thanks for the review!

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eva, you are done benching you cherry chip ?
or you are just killing some time between SuperPi 32M runs :rofl:

Skinee could you take a better shot of how the mounting bracket is attached?
The new revisions to the (UN) brackets should accomidate this and most of the aftermarket tops. Thanks!

This looks great. Do we have any rough time frame of when these will hit Petra to pick up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The-Fox

Another great review Skinee ! :clap:
Thanks for your hard work and effort.

It would be nice to see the EK top side by side with the DetroitAC top and the stock one, if you can.

Keep it up :up:

---

Just look at Skinnee's website for the other reviews and compare. The Koolance one blows as it's worse then stock but the Detroit and this new one have almost the exact same curve in the same numbers area across the board at every setting. DetroitAC did you sell your volute design plans to Eddy? Just find it very odd that it is the exact same performance curve.

Thanks for the review, very much appreciated.

from stock and with the ek xtop 2, did the pump exhibit a different humming sound?

Any internal shots?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

Just look at Skinnee's website for the other reviews and compare. The Koolance one blows as it's worse then stock but the Detroit and this new one have almost the exact same curve in the same numbers area across the board at every setting. DetroitAC did you sell your volute design plans to Eddy? Just find it very odd that it is the exact same performance curve.

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They bought one, and...erm...theirs now looks and performs very similar :rolleyes:

frustrating :shakes:

Great review and nice write up skinnee. If only the mounting bracket was black to match. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitAC

They bought one, and...erm...theirs now looks and performs very similar :rolleyes:

frustrating :shakes:

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Too bad you did not apply for a patent or something. Or at least lie and put 'Patent Pending' on the block or something. The way it's mounted and performs is exactly the same. Eddy not cool! You guys should pay DetroitAC royalties or something for every unit sold.

Again nice review Skinee, can't wait to see comparison data.

Thanks for the data skinee :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

Any internal shots?

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From my worklog...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...g/DSC_0560.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...g/DSC_0562.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...g/DSC_0561.jpg

Nice review skinnee :toast: Definitely be good to see some comparison data, looks like it's too close to just eyeball the respective graphs :p:

And the dust isn't that hard to get rid of :stick: Only that large piece of dust is kind of hard I suppose :p:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...tletwo8.th.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armeniandave

Skinee could you take a better shot of how the mounting bracket is attached?
The new revisions to the (UN) brackets should accomidate this and most of the aftermarket tops. Thanks!

---

Sure, I'll snap some. Going to be a bit though, I am using the EK top for radiator testing since the front outlet works perfectly for my rad test fixture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bei Fei

Any internal shots?

---

Doh! I completely forgot to use this image in the review. :shakes:


http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/...K_internal.jpg

again with the dust :shakes: ...apparently I need to vacuum and/or get an air filter for the lab.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

from stock and with the ek xtop 2, did the pump exhibit a different humming sound?

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The delrin on this one is quite thick, that coupled with the backplate there is very little sound emitted by the pump impeller. I'm half deaf anyway, so the noise of a D5 is hardly audible for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lyl

*snip*

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Thanks lyl!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

And the dust isn't that hard to get rid of :stick: Only that large piece of dust is kind of hard I suppose :p:

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You bugger! I think I found my photo guy for all future reviews. :yepp:

:p:

You can send problem photos over if you want, I find this kind of stuff fun :yepp:

Great review skinnee! Very smart design too Eddy!

Is the D5 with this EK Top better than the DDC3.2 with EK/XPSC/Petra top ?

Great job Skinnee :up: I still like the Detroit a bit better but the information you supply is invaluable.

P.S. - I know Martin tested 24V vs. 12V with the D5 and didn't see much of a performance increase. I wonder if these new tops would show more? Food for thought, thanks again....

Nice report! It looks like it edges out the DetroitAC top slightly at high flow rates, but is very similar everywhere else.

--Matt

Oooh very nice!

I might get that to use with my D5 I have boxed somewhere :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hotdun

P.S. - I know Martin tested 24V vs. 12V with the D5 and didn't see much of a performance increase. I wonder if these new tops would show more? Food for thought, thanks again....

---

Well, I did perform some informal tests just to verify Martin's findings. And...he's still dead on. There is no real benefit to running the pump over 12v, the slight gains are not worth the added heat dump IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitAC

They bought one, and...erm...theirs now looks and performs very similar :rolleyes:

frustrating :shakes:

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Hi!

I have to admit the interior looks very much the same, which and was a product or our intensive tests. I have to say I did not see your top interior before releasing our top, as you did not show any pictures of it over the forums. Which brings it that we have very similar way of thinking. I saw your interior when skinnee tested it.

Also, we did not bought a top from you for direct comparison. Can you please explain your statement?

To be honest I expected a little better results, but overall satisfied with the product.

Great review Skinee.

As an owner of the original X-top and seeing its piss-poor performance it gave and at that cost I wish I waited and bought DetroitAC's version

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

Also, we did not bought a top from you for direct comparison. Can you please explain your statement?

---

Sure, I can explain :D

Someone with the eBay ID: eddy_ek from Slovenia bought a pump top from my eBay store on Nov 11th ,2008 but never paid for it, so the transaction was cancelled many weeks later. My assumption was that this was you?

Then on Nov 13th someone named Peter Stampfel of Ljubljana, Slovenia bought one pump top with expedited shipping to Ljubljana, Slovenia.

EK Waterblocks lists their physical address as Ljubljana, Slovenia. These are just remarkable coincidences you will say?

To be clear, you have done nothing illegal or even contrary to normal business practice in my view. You have, however copied my work and this forum is a unique place, with an actual community in contrast to the "normal" commercial marketplace. I worked very hard to refine my pump top, and I hope the members of this board will choose to support innovators rather than hacks.

+1 :up: Until an apology comes up from Eddy he lost a customer. Told him that I was disappointed in him and asked for him to cancel my account on his website. Never thought I would see Eddy do this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitAC

Sure, I can explain :D

Someone with the eBay ID: eddy_ek from Slovenia bought a pump top from my eBay store on Nov 11th ,2008 but never paid for it, so the transaction was cancelled many weeks later. My assumption was that this was you?

Then on Nov 13th someone named Peter Stampfel of Ljubljana, Slovenia bought one pump top with expedited shipping to Ljubljana, Slovenia.

EK Waterblocks lists their physical address as Ljubljana, Slovenia. These are just remarkable coincidences you will say?

To be clear, you have done nothing illegal or even contrary to normal business practice in my view. You have, however copied my work and this forum is a unique place, with an actual community in contrast to the "normal" commercial marketplace. I worked very hard to refine my pump top, and I hope the members of this board will choose to support innovators rather than hacks.

---

EPIC FAIL!

Great.. now EK joins the likes of TFC.

Indeed, everyone, support the inventors, not the ripoffs.

I still can't believe I payed $40 for the POS that was the original EK X-TOP :(

http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/produc...roducts_id=316

Says "This product was added to our catalog on Monday 10 November, 2008."

DetroitAC says Eddy_EK bought one on Nov. 11th 2008.

I can put all kinds of stuff on my own website too.

But then webshops in the UK got them in on 21st of Nov. That'd would be mighty quick to buy a top on the 13th, get it to Slovenia and then produce them and then get them to the UK in 8 days.

Did these webshops get them physically in their store on Nov 21st or did they add the SKU for it on the 21st when Eddy notified them that a Rev2 would be coming soon?

many things don't add up:

1) he denied having ever seen the internals of DetroitAC's top... and tries to side step it by saying great minds think alike... lol
2) he denied ever buying one of DetroitAC's tops - when DetroitAC seems to have proof he did.
3) his original purchase on the 11th was never paid... cause he had second thoughs on what might happen if you bought something, with intentions to copy, usining his business name (Eddy_EK)

IMO, #1 says enough for me. but the fact that #2 and #3 happened as well, just leaves no doubt. The website date could be edited, or even show that he planned to rip off DetroitAC's internal design.... which wouldn't take much time for him, since he already had external foundation of his top created (1st rev).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

I still can't believe I payed $40 for the POS that was the original EK X-TOP :(

---

Yup. At least I'm not the only one stuck with one of those. Granted, the custom barb options are nice, and it DOES perform slightly better than stock.

But still I wish I had gotten the DetroitAC top instead... damn. The X-Top was the only custom top for the D5 at the time I purchased it...

I don't know. Did Eddy's pump top come out after someone in Slovenia ordered one? I don't know that either. That's the point. Until everyone knows, people shouldn't really be throwing out accusations.

One of the shops, chilled-pc.co.uk would be able to tell us. The owner Tom, posts on this forum. His shop shows a date of the 21st of Nov. I do know that the Nov. 10th date on Eddy's page has not been altered. That was the first thing I checked this morning when DetroitAC made his first comment.

Hold on here folks...before we gather a mob and stone someone to death, lets take a deep breath and look at the info we have.

I am not picking a side, I enjoy working with both DetroitAC and Eddy. All I can do is present the information I have, so lets see the two tops side by side.

http://www.skinneelabs.com/images/EK-DT_tops.jpg

They are certainly similar but definitely not identical. Is the mounting system the same skinnee?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alejo

Until everyone knows, people shouldn't really be throwing out accusations.

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QFT...

watercoolinguk.co.uk had it about the same time - 20th of Nov.

They are not completely identical that is because it had to be revised to accommodate the front outlet. The back mounting plate which holds the ring instead of the top itself is different because well it would have been way too obvious if it was in the top like DetroitAC's. DetroitAc was the innovator that made the giant ring go away and moved the impeller into the top with spiraled volute that was suggested in the early stages of the build. EK just smoothed that out some but is still the same.

If I am wrong and Eddy can disprove this then I am more then man enough to apologize and eat my words. Trust me when I say this that I hope I am wrong because I like EK and Eddy has helped me before hence the reason why I am so torn right now on this issue.

As a person who machines parts for a living when I look at the two side by side I would say that EK did not blatantly copy the design. Looking at the inlet and outlet there is really only so much variation possible.

Did Eddie actually buy one of Detroit AC's tops? Maybe he did but he was probably trying to figure out why Detroit's top worked so well. In almost all industries competitors buy the competitions product and then try and see why it works so well with the ultimate goal to improve upon it and create a new product. If you look at all the aftermarket DDC tops out there they are all pretty similar also.

Perhaps the performance curve is the result of both Detroit and EK hitting upon the right designs, albeit very similar but still a bit different than each other.

If he had bought it just to 'see' then that would've been fine if he admitted to doing that. But he blatantly LIED in saying that

"Also, we did not bought a top from you for direct comparison"

When you can see that they did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

If he had bought it just to 'see' then that would've been fine if he admitted to doing that. But he blatantly LIED in saying that

"Also, we did not bought a top from you for direct comparison"

When you can see that they did.

---

I have to agree that makes Eddy look a little stinky but as said before the tops for DDC are all quite similar too and with good reason. Still waiting to hear back from Eddy and DetroitAc though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

If he had bought it just to 'see' then that would've been fine if he admitted to doing that. But he blatantly LIED in saying that

"Also, we did not bought a top from you for direct comparison"

When you can see that they did.

---

No you are assuming they did.

That is not to say that they didn't but unless you happen to have proof that Eddy has a DetroitAC top you are making assumptions based on what has been said in this thread.

The fact that somebody in the same town bought one is irrelevant, interesting and gives pause for thought but it does not mean the two are related.

Wild speculation helps nobody.

If Eddy says he did not copy it and yes the are similarities but the are also differences then why should we question him? As somebody else has mentioned look at all the DDC tops they are all similar but slightly different but I don't hear everyone crying that they are all copying the Alphacool top (or whichever came first)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

Hold on here folks...before we gather a mob and stone someone to death, lets take a deep breath and look at the info we have.

I am not picking a side, I enjoy working with both DetroitAC and Eddy. All I can do is present the information I have, so lets see the two tops side by side.

http://www.skinneelabs.com/images/EK-DT_tops.jpg

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Thanks Skinne, I was expecting a lynching.

Looks similar yes but then how much variation can you have for a pump top? Not much :shrug:

Guys, the chamfer at the inlet is totally different, as is the spiral volute as is the exit... I don't see this as a copy at all.

I have just patented...the sock.

Yes all explained.. except for the fact we have Eddy saying he didn't buy it and DetroitAC showing the logs from his store saying he did.. yes all explained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

Yes all explained.. except for the fact we have Eddy saying he didn't buy it and DetroitAC showing the logs from his store saying he did.. yes all explained.

---

Well technically he said that eddy didn't buy it, but someone from that town did.
It could be another ass-umption.

Well looks like things got explained a little. Much of the info I did not have and thus made myself look like an a$$. Just looking out for a member who had innovation and when I saw the performance curves being identical and similar setup I jumped the gun. So Eddy....I apologize! Ignore my PM I sent you as it was written when I was acting retarded before seeing the evidence. The comparisons between the two have it's differences and as someone pointed out there are only so many styles to choose from and hard not to infringe on a similar idea or design. I guess DetroitAC can take it as a compliment then that his design helped inspire.

Thanks for the review skinnee, awesome work as ususal:up:

All manufacturers should apologize to Eddy for copying his full cover gpu block idea. He was the first to come out with it right? If not slap me silly.

I'm just thankful that, after having a D5 for about 3 years, there are finally tops available that improve upon the base performance. Here's a toast to both DetroitAC and EddieEK....thank you both for your ingenuity and perseverance! :toast:

I was kinda surprised to see so many here jump the gun so quick at attack him on it to be honest. I mean, we all know Eddy is a decent guy so it struck me as odd that everyone was so quick to judge him :wth:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

I was kinda surprised to see so many here jump the gun so quick at attack him on it to be honest. I mean, we all know Eddy is a decent guy so it struck me as odd that everyone was so quick to judge him :wth:

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This is the internet. It's practically expected that people will fly off the handle at the drop of a hat. :up:

Wow. Drammallama indeed.

Eddy's top looks significantly different in all sorts of ways. yes,his spiral-voluted design came out after DetroitAC's; yes, both are attached to the same pump; yes, both are black; yes, Eddy probably did buy a top to compare it (never denied it either, if you look at his actual words).

Here's what I have to say:

1. Great product, DetroitAC. Congrats on being the first to implement serious improvements in a product and bring it to market.
2. Great product, Eddy. Your stuff is always top-notch.
3. Amazing review, skinnee. Thank you so much for contributing to our community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitAC

Sure, I can explain :D

Someone with the eBay ID: eddy_ek from Slovenia bought a pump top from my eBay store on Nov 11th ,2008 but never paid for it, so the transaction was cancelled many weeks later. My assumption was that this was you?

Then on Nov 13th someone named Peter Stampfel of Ljubljana, Slovenia bought one pump top with expedited shipping to Ljubljana, Slovenia.

EK Waterblocks lists their physical address as Ljubljana, Slovenia. These are just remarkable coincidences you will say?

To be clear, you have done nothing illegal or even contrary to normal business practice in my view. You have, however copied my work and this forum is a unique place, with an actual community in contrast to the "normal" commercial marketplace. I worked very hard to refine my pump top, and I hope the members of this board will choose to support innovators rather than hacks.

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Hey Sherlock, before you start accusing everybody I want you to know, that I am Peter Štampfel and I bought your top for my personal use (and sent you back the item, for which I am still waiting to be refunded). Ljubljana is a city with more than 200k residents and I don't know everybody in person and as I stated in your inquiery prior to sending me the item, I am not affiliated with EK waterblocks.

Great review skinnee - as usual you have done a fantastic job and made it nice and easy to follow :up:

Bring on the next one :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strumf666

Hey Sherlock, before you start accusing everybody I want you to know, that I am Peter Štampfel and I bought your top for my personal use (and sent you back the item, for which I am still waiting to be refunded). Ljubljana is a city with more than 200k residents and I don't know everybody in person and as I stated in your inquiery prior to sending me the item, I am not affiliated with EK waterblocks.

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And that answers that question :up:

Awesome review skinnee, the machining looks nice and the pictures are exceptional.

Cheers! :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strumf666

Hey Sherlock, before you start accusing everybody I want you to know, that I am Peter Štampfel and I bought your top for my personal use (and sent you back the item, for which I am still waiting to be refunded). Ljubljana is a city with more than 200k residents and I don't know everybody in person and as I stated in your inquiery prior to sending me the item, I am not affiliated with EK waterblocks.

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:ROTF:

But seriously, This is a dumb arguement/discussion, and probably wouldn't have sparked without vendor threadpoop.

This is a review thread. Please?

Great review Skinnee!!! Thanx a lot!!! :up:

Now to encourage some future possibilities

Who's going to be the first to put the DDC in it's rightful place and develop a pressure oriented impeller (something more like the RD-30 or DDC) impeller with longer deeper vanes that are more suited for pressure intensive applications like we have in water cooling???

I'm not sure the impeller upgrade is something that can be reasonably fabricated for a marketable price, but it seems to me if you could surpass the DDC performance, folks would be willing to spend a few bucks. I'm not of experience to understand the motor differences, but something still seems appealing about the D5 motor that is calling for attention. The weakest link in the D5 pump appears to be the impeller, moreso than the volute. Just look at that curve, so much power wasted at high flow rates we can never use. Just imagine the possibilities with an RD30 like impeller and one of these great new tops..:D

Iwaki very routinely designs one pump and several different impellers that go with that pump to tweak the curves. Seems like the D5 could be tweaked much the same. And that would be more than simple efficiency gains, that would provide the possibility to completely change the curve. Something with a large hump right 1.5gpm and maxing flow around 3gpm would do just fine...:)

Nobody has taken that step yet, what about that poor, always ignored, crying for help, IMPELLER!!...:shrug::D

Ok, enough...just wanted to encourage some future tweaks to consider. Impeller upgrades have simply been ignored in all of watercooling aftermarket parts and I'm just curious about it...

Cheers to the next steps in making this great pump even better!
Martin

Nice review! I haven't even implemented my X-TOP D5 Rev. 1 yet and I'm already considering buying the Rev. 2. Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Now to encourage some future possibilities

Who's going to be the first to put the DDC in it's rightful place and develop a pressure oriented impeller (something more like the RD-30 or DDC) impeller with longer deeper vanes that are more suited for pressure intensive applications like we have in water cooling???

I'm not sure the impeller upgrade is something that can be reasonably fabricated for a marketable price, but it seems to me if you could surpass the DDC performance, folks would be willing to spend a few bucks. I'm not of experience to understand the motor differences, but something still seems appealing about the D5 motor that is calling for attention. The weakest link in the D5 pump appears to be the impeller, moreso than the volute. Just look at that curve, so much power wasted at high flow rates we can never use. Just imagine the possibilities with an RD30 like impeller and one of these great new tops..:D

Iwaki very routinely designs one pump and several different impellers that go with that pump to tweak the curves. Seems like the D5 could be tweaked much the same. And that would be more than simple efficiency gains, that would provide the possibility to completely change the curve. Something with a large hump right 1.5gpm and maxing flow around 3gpm would do just fine...:)

Nobody has taken that step yet, what about that poor, always ignored, crying for help, IMPELLER!!...:shrug::D

Ok, enough...just wanted to encourage some future tweaks to consider. Impeller upgrades have simply been ignored in all of watercooling aftermarket parts and I'm just curious about it...

Cheers to the next steps in making this great pump even better!
Martin

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i would definitely reconsider the d5 if they improve the pressure... i only have the 355's for their pressure output:up:

i'm not a designer.but if they can bring that 355 killa...then its certainly a :welcome:

good suggestion...:up:

skinnee, :up: It would be kind of nice to see what this gain in pressure has sacrificed in the way of flow. Maybe a quick test with a low restriction loop with both tops and then a high restriction loop with both, no temps, just pressure. :fact: ;)

The only way I'd buy a "355 killa" is if it was the same size or smaller and cost roughly the same. The D5 is simply too big to fit the case size I prefer with the fittings of my choice....mATX/Quick-fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by situman

All manufacturers should apologize to Eddy for copying his full cover gpu block idea. He was the first to come out with it right? If not slap me silly.

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Innovatek was there before everyone else AFAIK.

Excellent review!
The accuracy of data is very high.
:up:
I have included the data of your test in the Spreadsheet.
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...35623_xxxx.jpg http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...5655_xxxxx.jpg
SKL is your symbol in the Spreadsheet :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strumf666

Hey Sherlock, before you start accusing everybody I want you to know, that I am Peter Štampfel and I bought your top for my personal use (and sent you back the item, for which I am still waiting to be refunded). Ljubljana is a city with more than 200k residents and I don't know everybody in person and as I stated in your inquiery prior to sending me the item, I am not affiliated with EK waterblocks.

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I see, it's just an extraordinary coincidence :shrug:

Peter, you have to ship the part to me. You can't keep the part and expect your money back.

Just so you know, you're living in perhaps the pc watercooling capital of the whole world. EK Waterblocks makes great stuff and almost everything you might need for your system, and they are located right in your town, you should really check them out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiborrr

Innovatek was there before everyone else AFAIK.

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Also Dangerden was I think before me... No problem Tiborr, I don't want this thread to go off topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by situman

All manufacturers should apologize to Eddy for copying his full cover gpu block idea. He was the first to come out with it right? If not slap me silly.

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Dangerden made the first FC blocks way before anyone else IIRC

EDIT: lol serves me right for not reading the last page before I post

excellent!

Excellent review Skinnee, thanks a lot! ;)

Sorry to bump a old-ish thread but I have a question on this exact topic (not the accused copying BS!)

Being a W/C n00b, the different tops affect Head Pressure and Flow Rates, but what sort of impact does that have on the temperature in the loop?

I'm very tempted to get one of these, mainly for the ability to use barbs (I CBF hacking up the stock one) and an easier mounting method, but if it's going to make a difference of 1° then the cost might not be worth it. Ta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by downforce

Being a W/C n00b, the different tops affect Head Pressure and Flow Rates, but what sort of impact does that have on the temperature in the loop?

I'm very tempted to get one of these, mainly for the ability to use barbs (I CBF hacking up the stock one) and an easier mounting method, but if it's going to make a difference of 1° then the cost might not be worth it. Ta.

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Like most things it depends on the loop. But these tops do help performance in the head pressure and flow rate which are both good to help lower temps. To what degree? Well like I said, it depends on your loop. Being able to easily put barbs in was almost worth it in itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by downforce

Sorry to bump a old-ish thread but I have a question on this exact topic (not the accused copying BS!)

Being a W/C n00b, the different tops affect Head Pressure and Flow Rates, but what sort of impact does that have on the temperature in the loop?

I'm very tempted to get one of these, mainly for the ability to use barbs (I CBF hacking up the stock one) and an easier mounting method, but if it's going to make a difference of 1° then the cost might not be worth it. Ta.

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>1° to none and probably depend on block too. I change a weak sauce eheim hpps pump to ddc2 on zern pq+ before and didnt see any jack of difference on temp. Now using xspc res/top just because of it compact size.

There some buried zombie thread somewhere where people mod the stock top. It pretty good. Go dig it.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by downforce

Sorry to bump a old-ish thread but I have a question on this exact topic (not the accused copying BS!)

Being a W/C n00b, the different tops affect Head Pressure and Flow Rates, but what sort of impact does that have on the temperature in the loop?

I'm very tempted to get one of these, mainly for the ability to use barbs (I CBF hacking up the stock one) and an easier mounting method, but if it's going to make a difference of 1° then the cost might not be worth it. Ta.

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Take a look at Vapor's recent test on the GTZ to get a feeling for how much flow rate impacts performance. It's probably one of the more flow sensetive blocks too.

http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/C2Q/GTZQ/GTZQ.png

The difference between 1GPM and 2GPM is roughly 1 degree. So the differences we're looking at here for pump tops is really small when speaking degrees.

.2GPM will probably only amount to about .2C...etc.

@Sparda: Yeah I've seen it. There are two factors .. 1) tools; 2) effort + time.

@Martinm210: Thanks, that's pretty much what I was after, but doesn't make the decision easier! Now to work out if it's REALLY worth the ~$40US!