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I was thinking of getting the Adaptec RAID 5805 but have been told it takes like 45 seconds to boot up and can overheat.
Am new to the world of RAID controllers, so is there any card out there that is fast to boot up and has 8 SAS ports and not overheat?
Any particular budget?
Incidentally, the way to avoid an overheat is just to point a fan at the card... a lot of cards just have heatsinks on them but are designed for servers where they will see forced airflow. Don't ask me why they wouldn't ship it with a removable fan, but the industry as a whole seems to feel this is acceptable.
Hmm, 500 to 600.
45 seconds, my nerves
it runs hot, nothing a fan wouldn't fix
i have a few,
look into areca for they make a good product
Perc 5 can be found for ~$100 on ebay. I run 4 drive RAID 0 and 4 drive RAID5 on mine. It's an excellent controller. You can upgrade the memory from 256MB (ECC) to 512MB if you see fit.
BTW this card runs hot too. I took an Enzotech SB cooler and glued it on using Arctic Silver adhesive. Runs great now.
It takes around 30-45s to initialize this card.....but what's the big deal? If you're OCIng and POSTing over and over just disconnect the card while you test, then reconnect to load OS.
I dont think PERC5 has 8 ports(?)Quote:
Originally Posted by binormalkilla
I'd highly recommend Areca :up:
Perc 5i sux, it has throughput cap, can't exceed 300MB/s.
While I'm not posting to defend this product (given I have never owned or used one), they can indeed exceed 300MB/s... there's just some sort of shenanegans you have to play with them. I looked really closely at them at one point, and with updated LSI firmware + drivers I saw some benches that were extremely convincing. Well over 300MB/s throughput. May have had some interesting loading requirements, but I don't quite remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by icywater
That said, they use an IOP333. And while they have *the best* price for an IOP333 out there, if you plan on going SSD with this card it's not for you.
Edit: Decent review of the card: http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives...card-tips.html
(note 450MB/s throughput on one of his read tests w/ 4x 1TB Samsung F1's. I'm sure I've seen over 600 somewhere as well... but again, I have this tickle at the back of my mind telling me there was something different about it requiring sufficient requests for some reason... though that might be me just going crazy...)
get ARC-1680ix-12Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior
this is Areca card, has 12 SAS ports, dual-core 1.2Ghz XOR, & can have up to 4GB cache :D
why 12 port? cause u should probably get a lil expandability ;)
:up:
It has 2 SAS channels, so you can run 8 SATA drives directly or up to something like 256 SAS drives using expanders.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss
:rofl: Where did you get that from? 8 drive RAID5 array:Quote:
Originally Posted by icywater
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...PERC_5_i8d.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss
yeh but the 1680 is no faster @ boot up than the 5805 :rofl:
unfortunately thats the world of raid controllers :shrug:
pain in the arse at times still the benefits outway the issues :up:
:confused: never said it wasQuote:
Originally Posted by NapalmV5
yeh but im referring to 1st post ^ :)
ironwarrior dont like 45 sec long initialization lol
Yeah but who does? :/Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmV5
tiro_uspsss, thanks for the suggestion, I have looked at that card but 12 ports is is a little too much. :p:
But this seems to be the same model but 8 ports instead and has a fan and it is low profile as well, which I want.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Areca...andor-on-board
In the RAID controller industry, who is like the top dog, am thinking it's Adaptec?
Quote:
Originally Posted by binormalkilla
lol, for some reason i can't not get my card to run over 300MB/s, on both P5K-E and P5Q-Pro.
yeh no one.. never said i did lolQuote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior
all these sas controllers are meant @ servers/workstations.. once setup/booted they stay on very long periods of time.. users could care less about bootup times :shrug:
i dont think the low profile 1680 is any faster @ boot up.. maybe 1-5 sec
Roger that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmV5
Just to give further information, am planning on adding 2 SSD's, 2 Cheetahs and 4 WD RE3's to this card.
Like I mentioned there are some shenanigans with that card - are you running Dell or LSI firmware / drivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by icywater
Depends on who you ask. LSI may be one of the biggest names though, IBM and a few other very large companies use them at least nearly exclusively... I think IBM recently even went with them for their supercomputers. But Areca is a top-tier name brand as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior
What it really boils down to ultimately are 2 things: what chip are they using and how are their drivers. Well, and maybe their interface... but ideally you shouldn't have to play with it every day so that's not as big of a deal to me. Any top-tier RAID company should be fine for drivers, after that it's just the chip they're using. A number of companies (such as Areca) use Intel IOP's and as a result their benchmarks with the same hardware/settings are usually about the same. Other companies (ie. LSI) use custom chips, the bother of which is that benchmarks are much rarer (well, benchmarks with software packages we use anyway).
Which top OEM like Dell/IBM/HP uses Areca?
You're really on a death to Areca kick. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaunits
I have had mixed experience with Areca. The 1680 has expandable cache but the benchmarks are lower than the Adaptec 5805 and it's more expensive as well.
I currently have multiple Adaptec and LSI systems in prodution and use an Adaptec 5805 in my personal gaming workstation. The BIOS initialization is definitely longer on the 5805 than on one of the dumb LSI SAS HBAs but it's solid as a rock and the performance is stellar.
From now on I am going Adaptec exclusively because while I've always had good reliability and acceptable performance with LSI, lately I've had a lot of BIOS issues with modern Intel chipsets (X38/X48 and now X58) where on various motherboards & certain slots, either the LSI adapter BIOS won't initialize at all, or it will initialize and accept the key combo to enter the RAID utility (with the message that the utility will load at the end of POST) but the system just goes ahead and boots without ever loading the utility.
Not only do the current Adaptec units, including the 5805, not have any of these BIOS issues on Intel chipsets but they include a "force load RAID utility now" option (which I've never had to use, but it's nice to know it's there).
The final straw with LSI was on Asus boards their x4 adapters were only getting initialized at x1. I actually had to buy & keep on hand 3 WD Caviar Black drives to set up in RAID 0 every time I built a system with an LSI controller to verify that it was getting initialized at x4 (since the LSI MegaRAID software utility doesn't tell you, you can only tell by using an array with >250MBps throughput).
Anyway, long story short, the 5805 + BBU rocks.
WS
With so many issues with their controllers, I should be considered quiet :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Speederlander
If they're top tier, I don't want to know bottom c*** :(
I can vouch for both the 5805, or, if you'd like to spend a little more and don't want to worry about overheating, I've used Highpoint 35xx cards in a number of builds now, and they're great, very quick bootup and great performance. Slightly smaller cache and use a single-core Intel IOP rather than the Adaptec dual-core, which results in the same read speed but faster write speeds compared to the other card, but means that even with no airflow the card never overheats.
P.S. Areca also takes a minute+ to boot.
I actually appreciate the knowing real life uses and issues of products.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaunits
This is what it's all about for better or worse.
Thanks!
I have an adaptec 5 series card and it is great. I have the 51245 and it is great. However it needs a fan blowing on it. I am going to watercool mine very soon. I would recommend the adaptec 5 series to anyone who is in need a a raid card. I would go for the Adaptec 5805 personally.
How you going to watercool it? :o
At the moment, I have got a 120mm Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E Silent Fan 1200 RPM listed to cool the card, thinking that I can attach it to the side panel or something.
But could I mount a fan on the card itself and if so, what size?
^well you gotta be creative!
A member here: jcool, has his 5xxx water cooled using a north bridge block I think.
Maybe he could post a pic.
:)
Just click the 5405 my sig :p:
It's an Aquacomputer block for the SB of MSI P35 mobos (46mm hole distance above and below the IOP core), it fits perfectly. Only downside: G1/8" :down:
http://database.he-computer.de/Bilder/CIMG1033.JPG
http://database.he-computer.de/Bilder/CIMG1034.JPG
Never went above 45C after I installed the block, and this machine is running 24/7/365 :up:
That's so cool. :D
Ah I have noticed there are holes in the card, am guessing these allow you to mount a fan.
http://xs226.xs.to/xs226/08170/adapt..._raid-7289.jpg
Those are too small for any decent size (read: non-noisy) fan, hmm.
food for thought, you can disable boot bios of most raid controllers and use a plain VR or SSD for a OS drive for fast boots
Then allow the Raid to turn on afterwards?Quote:
Originally Posted by Levish
Serra, check your PM box.
I know this thread kind of died a few days ago but I just received some information that I wanted to post on the forums regarding the controller heat output issue that may helpful to the OP or at least someone else who comes across this thread on a Google search.
Anyway, the other day I picked up a Dell PERC 6/i which runs an LSI 1078 chip. Without any air flow at all, it does get hot enough that if you hold your finger to it for a few seconds you have to take it off or risk a burn. However I have just rested a very low RPM 120mm fan next to it and it's completely cool to the touch now. So it seems while they do heat up, the actual heat output is quite low, low enough that the heatsink is colder than my skin at any rate ATM.
Incidentally I picked up the PERC 6/i (used, but verified functional) for only $175USD from a non-eBay store - LSI 1078 chip (same as on their highest end internal stuff), 2x wide SAS ports (8x SATA/SAS total without extenders), 256MB DDR2-667 cache (not upgradable). IMO a pretty good alternative, considering its just a re-branded high-end LSI... half the price of anything comparable (likely helps that it's used, but you won't find a used current-gen Areca/3Ware/etc so I feel comfortable with the statement).
We'll see if I end up doing a review of the thing or not. I likely will at some point, but I'll only have 3-4x WD 6400AAKS/LS + ACARD 9010 available to bench with so I won't be able to do anything too fancy. If anyone happens to want one before I get around to doing this, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the procedure I used to flash it from Dell -> latest LSI firmware if you've never done it before. Still trying to figure out how to get LSI drivers to find it (Dell drivers work and are relatively new, but LSI has a slightly newer set out that I want to try).
Yeah but that is a Perc 6... which is a single core XOR at 500 or 800Mhz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serra
Any raidcon equipped with the Intel IOP348 (Dualcore 1,2Ghz) such as the Adaptec 5 series is an entirely different story, these things ACTUALLY give off loads of heat. Even with a 4000rpm 40mm fan added to the stock cooler, my 5405 still hit close to 80C which I was not comfortable with, hence the water cooler.
The Percs do have a great price/performance ratio if you get them off ebay, but with a Perc it is still kind of a gambling game, because you are betting on the card to run in your mobo, which is not a given for all mobos. There are lots and lots out there that just don't work with a Perc 5/6 simply because these cards were never designed to properly run anywhere except in Dell servers, hence don't give a damn about general compatibility.Quote:
Incidentally I picked up the PERC 6/i (used, but verified functional) for only $175USD from a non-eBay store - LSI 1078 chip (same as on their highest end internal stuff), 2x wide SAS ports (8x SATA/SAS total without extenders), 256MB DDR2-667 cache (not upgradable). IMO a pretty good alternative, considering its just a re-branded high-end LSI... half the price of anything comparable (likely helps that it's used, but you won't find a used current-gen Areca/3Ware/etc so I feel comfortable with the statement).
I think you'll like the setup, I am running 4x WD6400AAKS on my 5405 in Raid 5 since early 2008, no problems whatsoever even though they are not rated for 24/7 operation :)Quote:
We'll see if I end up doing a review of the thing or not. I likely will at some point, but I'll only have 3-4x WD 6400AAKS/LS + ACARD 9010 available to bench with so I won't be able to do anything too fancy. If anyone happens to want one before I get around to doing this, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the procedure I used to flash it from Dell -> latest LSI firmware if you've never done it before. Still trying to figure out how to get LSI drivers to find it (Dell drivers work and are relatively new, but LSI has a slightly newer set out that I want to try).
You can compare your benchies to mine then (I did Raid 0/1/5/6/10 when I first set it up), even though the firmware of the 5405 has been optimized for even better speed by now. :up:
It's also not based on any form of Intel architecture, so it's comparing apples and oranges in that way too (ditto with clocks, though I'd be surprised if 500MHz found a way to equal 2x 1.2GHz - still, should sit at least somewhere between the later IOP333's and current 348's... no idea where in between tho). But if anyone decides to go with an LSI-based card, that's hopefully some info for them, I didn't intend it to sound like I was generalizing for all cards and I'm sorry if it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcool
The compatibility issue is extremely well documented in DIY circles, both cause and fix. All boards should work with them now. It wasn't that the cards were only designed to work in Dell mobos - that's hogwash - the issue was with bad programming on the part of motherboard manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcool
Hopefully I'll be able to go snag some drives today if my local store will price-match Newegg, otherwise it'll have to wait a bit. Either way I'd love to see your benches to compare against once they arrive. PM me with them if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcool
They were made for Dell servers, so in their making, the engineers didn't care in what other mobos they might or might not work - ofc they weren't designed to ONLY work in Dell mobos. As opposed to other controllers such as Areca, Adaptec, 3ware etc who actually try to certify their cards for a s many mobos as they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serra
You can always misinterpret other people's statements if you try really hard ;)
Anyway, I wasn't aware that all board work with them now - at least according to the German hwluxx forums, where I followed the official thread on them closely for over a year now, there are still lots of people unable to run a Perc 5 (mainly older Gigabyte mobos but some others as well).
Would be interesting to know if they work in all x58 boards, gonna have to read up on that.
You can find them if you follow the link in my sig saying "Adaptec 5405" :)Quote:
Hopefully I'll be able to go snag some drives today if my local store will price-match Newegg, otherwise it'll have to wait a bit. Either way I'd love to see your benches to compare against once they arrive. PM me with them if possible.
Ha ha, sorry. It's just that it wouldn't exactly be a new trick for Dell to pull to make their stuff proprietary so I thought it was important to make sure we were on the same page.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcool
This link is one of the best I've found for solving the PERC 5/i problems on Intel chipsets. Info on the PERC 6 is a lot harder to come by (presumably because they're newer and are only starting to hit the used market in numbers high enough to bring down prices notably), but seems to be about the same. In all my searching I didn't come across more than maybe a dozen posts with DIYers with the 6-series, but the idea is effectively the same.Quote:
Anyway, I wasn't aware that all board work with them now - at least according to the German hwluxx forums, where I followed the official thread on them closely for over a year now, there are still lots of people unable to run a Perc 5 (mainly older Gigabyte mobos but some others as well).
Would be interesting to know if they work in all x58 boards, gonna have to read up on that.
Sweet! Once I'm able to pick up the drives and run off a few benches I'll send you my results.Quote:
You can find them if you follow the link in my sig saying "Adaptec 5405" :)
All right then, awaiting your results.
As a matter of fact, I am currently looking into the possibility of getting a perc5 myself.. the Raid 5 on the 5405 is pretty much filled, and I need more space. I wanted to go for the 5805 but damn, prices have risen like mad. It's an Intel 5400 chipset so I guess the Perc should work fine in there, only question is will it work along with the 5405...
guys what do you think of the Supertrak EX8650? i don't have the budget to pay more for a sas controller.
Should be a good product, runs on the top-of-the-line Intel IOP. It's too bad it doesn't have expandable cache, but 256MB is enough for most of us. Not sure what the guys with 2GB do with all their cache, likely leave most of it to sit I think.
Maybe someone who actually has a Promise controller can shed some light on the drivers/associated software.
OK, all I'm going to have time to do for a bit are the RAID-5 and RAID-6 tests. To give a comparison against the 5405 I've used a 256k stripe size and enabled write caching like you did in your benches. I'm not sure if that's optimal or not for these drives, but I'm happy enough with the results that I'm going to leave it alone. RAID-0 and combo results can be part of a real review later.
Comparing the two cards results are certainly interesting. There are enough wiggles between us that I think it's evident we have some differences in actual hard drives so this isn't as terrific of a comparison as it could be, but it's the best we're going to get.
RAID 5:
HD Tach:
- Read: You beat me by about 20MB/s
- Write: You beat me by about 9MB/s
- Random Access: You have me beat by about 0.8ms
But then....
ATTO:
- Excepting your anomalously large 256 & 4096 read results that I want to blame on cache (but don't think for sure I can) I pretty well slap you around like... well, something that gets slapped hard.
I have no good idea why the differences would be so large between the two tests. A few hypothesis maybe, but nothing that I really like.
RAID 6:
HD Tach:
- Read: I win by ~9MB/s
- Write: I win by ~30MB/s
- Random Access: I win by about 0.3ms (???)
ATTO:
- You seem to have me beat on writes (most notably at 8k), but above 8k the difference doesn't look huge... though the 4 & 8mb reads don't quite keep up on mine. The reads I definitely have you beat on *at 64k and above*, you definitely have me below that.
So... hmmm. I don't know quite what to say. Short of seeing either of us pulling notably better results with updated drivers (ie. you said yours were outdated and I know the LSI drivers are supposed to be better on my card) I don't think we can call either card better than the other at this point - though I'll concede that I would expect with SSD's your card to pull away. For mass storage though I hope I've at least shown to the forums that the thrifty-priced PERC 6/i ($175USD, used) can be a real contender to the high-priced alternatives.
So what do you think jcool? 12 hour benching sessions tweaking for optimum performance? Or would you rather just agree that the first one to visit the others country gets free beers? The latter option sounds a little better to me :D
Edit: First 2 images are RAID-5, second 2 are RAID-6. Should be pretty obvious given the sudden speed decrease, but being an Internet forum it's not safe to assume everyone who sees this will understand the obvious.
Nice tests serra,
sad you didn't test a Raid 0 tho - that would have been more conclusive as to the drive difference issue.
Anyway, the performance of the Perc 6 looks really good, especially in Raid 6 (I don't care as much about ATTO as I used to, since even the weakest MLC SSDs can score sky-high there and still suck ass in real life applications or even HDTach/tune).
I don't know how far the driver optimizations on Adaptec's side have progressed, I benched the drives back in April 08 when I set the whole thing up. Since then, there were 3 firmware updates I think, and I am not even on the latest. Running a HD-Tach read only while running the OS from the array (which is 90% full by the way :shakes: ) I got 280MB/s average read, and the latest firmware is supposed to give the reads a real boost again :shrug:
See Napalm's comparison-thread with SSDs, it's quite evident there.
Still, my next storage array won't be about performance, as is totally irrelevant for storage whether the array can write 200 or 400MB/s. I am thinking a perc 5/6 + 4 of these 2TB WD Greenpower, if they arrive soon.
Is there a noticeable difference between the Perc 5 and 6 in Raid 5? I think the Perc 5 can be outfitted with more cache which might be beneficial?
Definitely the latter one :toast:Quote:
So what do you think jcool? 12 hour benching sessions tweaking for optimum performance? Or would you rather just agree that the first one to visit the others country gets free beers? The latter option sounds a little better to me
Also obviously I can't bench the whole setup again with the latest drivers and firmware without transferring 1,8TB to an equally safe location first, which I don't have at the moment - so we'll just leave it at that and both be happy :up:
About the Promise EX8650 somebody was asking about earlier, from what I recall it is very strong in Raid 0 configs, even stronger than the Adaptec, but not as good with parity raids (5/6 etc)