Dear Men!
I have a nice question! :cool:
According to news Phenom II 940 is compatible with AM3 and AM2+ also Phenom II 945 is compatible with AM3 and AM2+ then whats this picture?! :
http://i39.tinypic.com/118on54.jpg
Really Phenom II have both of DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers?!
Source :
http://www.guru3d.com/news/more-deta...d-athlon-line/
Confused!! :confused:
To me that reads that the 940 and 920 work on AM2+ only, while the 945 and 925 work on both AM2+ and AM3. The short life of the 920 and 940 would seem to agree with that.
940 and 920 indeed are only compatible with AM2+, AM3 CPU's are compatible with AM2(+)/AM3, meaning AM3 CPU's indeed do have both DDR2 and DDR3 IMC's. 940 and 920 dont have them (Dont know in what state though, maybe the DDR3 IMC is just disabled).
Phenom II 940 and 920 are socket AM2+, work only in AM2+ motherboards and only with DDR2 memory. 945 and 925 are AM3, work in either AM2+ motherboards with DDR2 memory or AM3 motherboards with DDR3 memory. Yes, models ending with 5 have both DDR2 and DDR3 controller (or in fact one controller working in two modes).
Correct. Models ending in 0 are AM2+ (DDR2 memory only; works in AM2+ [and those fake DDR2 AM3 boards *ugh*] only). Models ending in 5 are AM3 (DDR2/DDR3--either one; works in AM2+ and AM3).
ok thanks a lot friends! but there is two standalone memory controller or just one with a simulator!?!
How the heck does a AM3 CPU have a 95W TDP (30W lower than AM2+) given they have two memory controllers: one for DDR3 and one for DDR2?
dont know, but ill be watching the reviews between the 940 and 945 closely to see how each do.
There is only 1 memory controller that can run in either DDR3 mode or DDR2 mode. As for the lower wattage it's likely a new stepping imo.
But wouldn't there need to be more transistor logic and increased die size for having DDR3 and DDR2 mode? I guess the DDR2 mode wouldn't be powered with DDR3...Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Not sure, dont think there has to be a lot of logic in it. I guess it just depends what circuit is actived according to the different DDR2 and DDR3 pins. If either of those is in the other one will be shut off completely, probably not even a BIOS or whatever is needed to get that working.
Im not an engineer/electricien, so dont quote me on that, but I guess it's rather simple:rolleyes:
The lower TDP could be probably just from a different stepping, which is quite likely since AM2+ and AM3 CPU's simply ain't the same.
i know the 945 is a c3 stepping im not sure about the 925 but i would guess it would be a c3 as well. that might explain why the power usage is lower on the 925 but i know the 945 has a tdp of 125W still.
here's what i think:
am2+ cpus
DDR2 and DDR3 controler
HyperTransport 3.0
am3 cpus
DDR2 and DDR3 controler
HyperTransport 3.1
but we'll see how it will unfold.
contdown: 2 days to go! (it's already the 6th of January in Portugal :P)
Cause AM2 isn't much more than upgraded 939. I'm happy to see them moving on up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrider
945 April but 925 Jan along with the 920 seems odd having both out next month, I haven't seen many AM3 mobo previews yet. Curious how things are going to play out here.
Well, our friends at AMD have done a terrific job of confusing us. I actually think I understand the whole nomenclature, but boy oh boy, its convoluted
these cpus are the first to support ht 3.0 and the ddr3 controller is disabled on the am2+ package.Quote:
Originally Posted by possessed
I wonder if it is really disabled in the package, or if the CPU configures itself when you install it into the socket and power it up :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
It's disabled. If you want some light reading, go to the AMD website and find the developer PDF on Agena. Both DDR2 & DDR3 are discussed in that document as supported by the IMC. Phenom has had the capability to run both flavors from day 1......AMD has chosen not to enable the DDR3 portion until they, and the MB manufacturers were ready.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by nanohead
i know its a fact it can't run it. its disabled by fuses on the cpu and according to amd it can't run it. wouldn't have a point to have them run it tho. it would make the am3 chip pointless plus people who have phenoms right now wouldn't have to buy a phenom II for ddr3.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanohead
Wrong. People keeps saying that but all lists I've seen have shown a complete mix of 5's and 0's among the AM3 CPU's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
The list above shows 13 AM3 models, and only six of them ends with xx5.
Look again.;)
I am not sure I should get Phenom II 940 or wait for Phenom II 945 ....
My M3A79-T DELUXE is pretty nice ( Bought it for less than 2 months ) and I don't have any plan to upgrade to AM3 Platform just yet ( I got plenty of DDR2 memory , as they are pretty cheap nowadays )
One thing I know about Phenom II 940 is it's Black Edition (Multipler Unlocked) , but I am not sure about Phenom II 945
Thanks all but whats the summary and conclusion! :confused:
Nice post then really exist a combo controller but what about this quote :Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRicer
maybe but we should wait to see what will happen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrider
well the more tempting part is actually to wait till the 925 arrives, since its am2+ and am3 and in a new stepping. looking at already retail 920 oc's that easily go to 3.6-3.7 without voltage bump i think it might be intereseting to just wait a few weeks longer, perhaps even better results for a small amount of time to wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by imamage
unless offcourse you want to go for extreme oc, have the same board btw, but for my 9850be it wasn't any better then my msi k9a plat
btw official statements amd 920+940 is am2/am2+ only, the 925/945 is am2/am2+/am3 and indeed with the lower am3 bins just having the same 0 in the end it is a bit confusing
Makes it all that much easier, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
Well I prefer Unlocked Multiplier (Black Edition)Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
I wonder if AMD will get any AM3 Phenom II Black Edition Soon:confused:
They will, if soon means to you June 09 :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by imamage
I really think the memory controller is "disabled", only because amd say that and want we to think that it's disabled only because they won't encourage building am2+ mobos with ddr3. Nobody really knows what have they done with Agena and nobody is sure. If we see AM2+ mobos with ddr3, we'll find out. :)
I meant with ddr3 DIMM slots, not ddr2. There was a hearsay that asrock have mobo for socket am2+ using ddr3, but it's not been confirmed yet. April, June doesn't matter, it's too long for me to wait :).Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRicer
The 945 is scheduled for April, I believe......and you won't see AM2+ boards using DDR3. It's impossible given that DDR2 and DDR3 are keyed differently.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuen4y
it's not stated that the 945 is a BE version, i think all will depend on quality of revision and competition to bring higher speed versions with BEQuote:
Originally Posted by RiverRicer
Looks like I just stick with 9950BE for the time being , 3GHz is good enough for now
Yeah, AMD makes it look like the last figure says it all, but it seems like it says nothing.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle
One thing I don't understand is why there are AM2+ models (940 & 920) at all, why not AM3 only?
Is it because there are no AM3 motherboards out?
I'd definitely wait for the AM3 models, couldn't hurt having DDR3 support and a newer stepping.
So basically you'd have to be an idiot to buy the 920 or 940?
I'm confused now...so am2 and am3 is the same socket?
Read hereQuote:
Originally Posted by phistyle
What cofuses/puzzles me is that anyone wanting a certain CPU-manufacturer success calls two promising models something only an idiot vould buy.
No wonder AMD is struggling these days.
Did I stray into the Intel part of the forum by mistake?
:confused:
No if you don't plan ram and mobo change 940/920 is the cpu for you(like me) if you want to change everything, then wait for the 9x5 processors ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Razrback16
the 920 and 940 will be the same thing but only with ddr2 support. the prices on them will most likely drop when the am3 versions are released so if you are certain that you are not going to get ddr3 or am3 then the am2+ one will be a better buy. at one point i think they were going to have a much bigger split inbetween the two cpu's releases (2 maybe 3 months) but it ended up only being a month apart.
Is there only going to be one month between ddr2-ddr3 denebs?Quote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
945 and 920 are set for February.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
There's nothing idiotic about 940 & 920 IMO, I just don't understand why they're not AM3.
Some hardware sites acts idiotic though, claiming all AM2+ owners should hurry getting a 920 or 940, because they'll soon disappear and then there will only be AM3 CPU's.
One more reason why I'd wait for AM3 is that there will be more models available next month.
I'm not going for the 940 because it costs too much, and the 920 is too close in price to the 940.
I'm really interested in how the 710 - 910 models perform, and if P2 can do 300 HTT anyway then a multiplier of 12.5 or higher is enough for air cooling.
The question is how much difference the 6 MB L3 cache does compared to 4 MB in the 800 series, and how those performs compared to the X3's which have 6 MB L3.
Maybe you don't have to pay a premium for a 940 BE when you're aiming for a stable 24/7 aircooled system anyway.
You don't really loose that performance premium with the lower end P2's you get with the high end, like you do with C2's: crippled packages and too little L2 (E5000 and Q8000) to make any difference over last gen Conroe.
well it's still kind of stupid to release am2+ chips ...they should of just released am3 chips instead which would still work on the current platform and we can upgrade our motherboard and ram later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuen4y
Now that I think of it, maybe AMD did it just to make sure they didn't miss any customers that totally missed that AM3 CPU's works as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by phistyle
This is exactly the question I popped to one of the AMD guys at the event, why even bother with AM2+. Just release them as AM3 so people can use them now with they're current boards and future boards should they choose to go for ddr3......It makes no sense to put all that effort into an end of life product with a shelf life of probably 3 months.....Of course you all know the answer that I recieved so lets just wait and see.
could it be that there is actualy a bigger difference between AM2+ deneb and AM3 deneb performance wise than we are thinking.
Many good points her Mats. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
Yes, it is perhaps "strange" that 920/940 will not work in (later) AM3 boards.
Current info is that 9n5-models (AM3) will work in both AM2+ and AM3 boards, which is great.
I still think I cannot wait for 9n5, but I do not want to pay "premium" like we always must to be "first in line" for a new product. :)
Yeah, chew* hinted something like that before and I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's hard to see what difference a month can do.
Unless the AM3 launch dates changes.
Edit: Tack, TL1000S! Yeah, I'm guessing that 4 MB L3 is pretty good for a P2, since the 6 MB models aren't that much faster than the P1 clock for clock that had 2 MB anyway.
the reason why they had an am2+ one and an am3 one was because originally the am2+ was going to be released much earlier. you guys can wait and see if it has ddr3 support but i know for a fact the am2+ ones won't support it.
roofsniper: I guess you're right, they didn't really plan to make a small 1 - 2 month difference.
Sigh not this again. I don't know for 100% sure but AM2+ and AM3 Denebs are identical. Half the point with Deneb is a smooth transition from DDR2 to DDR3. As AMD claims; Buy processor now, upgrade motherboard later. And as ive said 5 times or so now: The AM2+ tag is probably to make it clear that this processor fit in AM2+ motherboards. If it was AM3 tagged no one not knowing would buy it and use it in AM2+ motherboards.
There are no AM3 motherboards available so people wouldn't buy any AM3 processors.
However a 'AM2+/AM3' tag would make everything much clearer.
I want to see those facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
Isn't it the other way around, buy a mobo and upgrde CPU later?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson
I mean, the CPU's are backwards compatible, not the (DDR3) mobos.
look at the amd k10h bios developers guide. as many have said already it clearly states in there that am2+ doesn't support ddr3 and am3 does. and this was released before the first phenoms even were. plus as some on this forum have said it is disabled by fuses and the am2+ can't run ddr3. it is disabled on the chip and there is no way to actually change it. plus theres also the idea that it would make no sense at all to release two identical chips in different packages. and then i have already spoken to an amd employee who says it clearly can't and also says its disabled by fuses. if it comes out supporting ddr3 it will be a surprise to everyone. even amd employees i bet. they will wonder which one of them slipped that crap in there. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eson
Deneb is not Barcelona. Just because Barcelona didn't have any DDR3 motherboards doesn't mean Deneb also will have disabled DDR3 capabilities. Deneb might very well be recognized in BIOS as an AM3 processor although on the box it says AM2+, I don't know.
the latest bios for the foxconn a7da-s did say 'added am3 cpu support' so :shrug:
the k10 guide still applies to deneb as well. its the k10 core overall. and considering that deneb has 940 or 938 pins im sure the bios could determine which one is am2+ or am3 based off of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson
Damn!!! please someone come and make all things clear !!!!!! ...
whats not clear?Quote:
Originally Posted by HamidFULL
could you please make a conclusion for me and this topic? (even short!)Quote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...E15363,00.html
Does this help?
Sure it tells us that older AM2 cpu's support ddr II, unfortunately this is a thread about am2+ and AM3 denebs......so that link is pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomL
No, only AM2+, and possibly AM2, just like the old Phenom 1. See links below.Quote:
Originally Posted by HamidFULL
Yes, according to the news and reviews I've seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by HamidFULL
Yes, at least for those who are AM3. I haven't seen any signs of AM2+ P2's with a working DDR3 controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by HamidFULL
What Anandtech said about getting an AM2+ CPU now:
Quote:
The downside for AMD is that because Socket-AM3 Phenom II chips are right around the corner, it makes little sense to buy one of these Socket-AM2+ Phenom II processors - at least not until we know the pricing and availability of the Socket-AM3 versions.
yeh mats has got it.
according to what i read in guru3d
am2+ phenom II 940 & 920 have 940 pins on the cpu like all other am2 socket cpu's
the newer am3 socket will only use 938 pins so an am2 processor "wont mechanically fit" in a am3 motherboard & on the flip side an am3 socket cpu will fit into a am2+ motherboard. How well this all works i guess will depend on how quickly motherboard manufacturers get their bios's working with the new cpu's.
does anyone have any benchmark info about the am3 they can link too or release dates of am3 cpu's, all i've read so far is sometime in feb
doesnt it have some separate power planes and stuff.. maybe thats the difference. plus. the current am2+ have linked pstates or something because of windows scheduler not being able to correctly turn off cores. and theyre working with microsoft to get that working properly with am3 so cores can independently switch off with individual pstatesQuote:
Originally Posted by Firestrider
I can see how that will affect idle power, but not max power.:shrug: And I think AM2+ does have separate power planes already, it's AM2 that doesn't have it..Quote:
Originally Posted by saveus222
The P2 uses a new 45 nm process, which will get better in time.
AM3 also has a new circuit for measuring temps apparently and does not use a thermal diode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman_2
Actually AM3 will have 1 extra pin not 2 less.........for 941 pins.....so physically am2+ will fit in the socket pin wise, only problem is they moved the other spaces where there are no pins so that it physically will not fit anyway......................Source=actual pictures.......not vaporware.
AM3 Red arrow showing only amount of pin difference
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=20
AM2 for comparison. Count the holes between the spaces, you will find them differing from AM3.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=23
I don't think am3 cpu's it will have 1 extra pin or how would it fit in am2 board? and also it has 2 have 938 to fit in both am2 and am3 because of the spacing difference. I think because its a sample mother board that it just's has an extra hole or that pin + 2 others will come in play later in am3 sockets life.
All is right!
AM3 socket will have 941pins (that's why AM3 mobo won't take AM2/+ CPU)
AM3 CPU will have 938pins (that's why AM3 CPU will work in both AM2+ and AM3 board)
Mystery solved.
OK men thank you all ... problem solved ! :up:
hmmm interesting to see the extra pin in the socket. the chip has 938 pins and the socket has 941?Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
yea i was thinking the same too. idk why the extra pin is there because if the cpu actually has a pin that fits in there then that cpu wouldn't work in am2+.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt.McRuff
yah so basically what i was told at the event was a blanket statement, TRUE ddr3 am3 boards won't work with am2+ it seems. If i had to guess the extra pin is there to future proof the socket or.....whats shangai have for a pin assignment/ddr3? cheaper to do one mold possibly?
yea that extra pin is interesting because i don't think am2+ and am3 both use it. and if am3 uses it then how does it fit in am2+? amd might be planning something in the future. :shrug:
AM2 left AM3 right. Even though the socket is pinned in the corner they arent using it, at least not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by roofsniper
http://images.hardware.info/news/phenom-am3-back.jpg