Ahhh! Corrosion! (and gunk)

Now, I've had this issue before back when I was using the invisible clear Feser One stuff, but since then, I've cleaned everything up nicely using boiling water,vinegar and distilled water, so get allthe reminants out of the loop and the components.

Anyway, I took my look apart for its quaterly clean and refill, and this is what met my eyes!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5010.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5011.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5012.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5013.jpg

Just look at that barb!!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5007.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/DSCF5008.jpg

And look what that did to my Supreme, no wonder my temps have gone frommid 30's to low 50's under load!

Now its just Distilled water an G11 for me :shrug:

The picture of the barb looks like the nickel plating has came off, they are brass remember. ;)


Still, that GPU block looks horrid. UV Blue Feser? I had an EK full cover with red Feser pumping through it for months and the only staining I got was a pink stain to the plexi.

Was it the dye or the pre-mixed stuff?

I wonder if some vinegar could have been left in the loop to cause that. That's pretty messed up.

Distilled water and G11 won't kill growth on its own. You need some kind of biocide/algaecide like PT nuke or algaecide.

Nah, all that was in this loop was bi-distilled water, and like 3 drops of G11

Err what is in your loop that is aluminium? It would be more helpful if you could list everything in your loop you haven't mentioned already.


The blue stuff looks more like dye residue but you didn't use it.

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Err what is in your loop that is aluminium? It would be more helpful if you could list everything in your loop you haven't mentioned already.


The blue stuff looks more like dye residue but you didn't use it.

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No alu anywhere near my loop, and tthere never has been. I was using:

EK Supreme
EK FC18/19
BIX2
DDC w. Alphacool top
XSPC Bay res (w. little pump inside)
Tygon.

No Alu in the loop? Then what was corroding? >.<

That's not corrosion. That's what's left over after your "pretty" and useless G11 that you added. G11 is a corrosion inhibitor, you're not mixing metals.... so guess what, you don't need it. Distilled + silver ingots/coils next time will yield better results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baleful

That's not corrosion. That's what's left over after your "pretty" and useless G11 that you added. G11 is a corrosion inhibitor, you're not mixing metals.... so guess what, you don't need it. Distilled + silver ingots/coils next time will yield better results.

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I think there's more to it than that. Look how the plating was eaten off of that barb. What type of metal is that plate bit in the CPU block made of, and how long has it been scoured like that?

--Matt

Its been in for 7 months, its stainless steel as far as I know, and its been in that condition since the day I got it.

It's actually hard to tell from his pic if the barb is stripped of it's coating..... if it is then you had something else in your loop besides distilled + G11. All that blue crap on your VGA block is G11 gunk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mankz_91

Its been in for 7 months, its stainless steel as far as I know, and its been in that condition since the day I got it.

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So your barb has always looked like that?

It's hard to tell from your pic exactly what is going on....

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Originally Posted by Baleful

So your barb has always looked like that?

It's hard to tell from your pic exactly what is going on....

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He's talking about the plate, not the barb.

Maybe some left over vinegar that reacted negatively with the G11? Is that a huge air pocket on the lines to/from the rad? Have you tried tipping the system to the side (might want to detatch the fillport for such a test to have it upright).

hmm gunk, not enough cleaning before use? its always good to disassemble each part, inspect and clean well...

staining in copper, use ketchup on the copper part, should remove it nicely, then rinse well...
acrylic suppose to be easily cleaned with distilled water...

normal of some gunk to get stuck on the accelerator plate of the ek supreme, which is why regular check ups is needed...

the barb is probably just stained, try put it in boiling distilled, they re-use or replace...

for g11 mix with distilled, its 10% per liter, the usual recommended amount. and like Baleful said it, 3 drops G11 is worthless. if you wanted color, i really suggest using colored tubing.
that 3 drops is for PT nuke and distilled water...

colored tubing, distilled water and silver coils or just 2 drops pt nuke FTW!

People still use vinegar? Must be an XS thing :D


Was anything physically damaged though? I hope nothing was, it sucks to lose equipment....

nothing looks bitten into by "corrosion" just some staining...

lucky he don't see staining outside the o-ring on the gpu block... else change o-ring time for him...

I once had a similar reaction to the nickel plating on my barbs while cleaning a radiator with a radiator cleaning fluid. But I doubt that the small amount of vinegar that could be left after cleaning could have done that?

My barbs looked more brass colored than yours. Yours look more copper colored. Maybe it's just different qualities of brass or the camera fooling me.
But maybe something caused micro galvanic corrosion in the brass? Eating the zinc an leaving the copper? I know that we usually don't worry about micro galvanic corrosion but I'm kinda out of regular ideas here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baleful

People still use vinegar? Must be an XS thing :D


Was anything physically damaged though? I hope nothing was, it sucks to lose equipment....

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i hear that lol you see more horror storys from people who attempt to use vinegar on 400 dollars worth of cooling parts then hot water :p:

What kind of distilled water did you use? What was the source of the water? The reason why I ask is because of one very important factor that many fail to even consider and that is fluoride content. It's extremely reactive even in the smallest of amounts and distilling does not get rid of it. Only reverse Osmosis does. That's why you have some people on here from different parts of the world that have no problems and others do. It goes by territory as some do add fluoride to water and others do not. Things to take into consideration as well is that many people will list fluoride in 'ppm'. Some will list it as 0ppm but still may actually contain it as they are just not giving you the full information as it could actually be 0.9ppm and they simply drop the .9 part which apparently is legal to do. The smallest amount of Fluoride is very reactive as the fluoride used by municipalities to dump in the water in the name of health actually comes from aluminum smelt plants. Basically a toxic waste that is 20 times stronger then natural fluorine. I wrote this somewhere in the forums before but I don't think people take it serious enough. You have expensive parts...Protect them!

Here is the MSDS sheet for the stuff they put in the water in the US, Europe and Ireland from the very company that makes it. http://www.pelchem.com/pdf/H2SiF6-MSDS.pdf

If you take a look it shows this...

Quote:

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INCOMPATIBLE PRODUCTS
Steel, glass, copper, aluminium. Seperate from strong bases, food and foodstuffs.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

What kind of distilled water did you use? What was the source of the water? The reason why I ask is because of one very important factor that many fail to even consider and that is fluoride content. It's extremely reactive even in the smallest of amounts and distilling does not get rid of it. Only reverse Osmosis does. That's why you have some people on here from different parts of the world that have no problems and others do. It goes by territory as some do add fluoride to water and others do not. Things to take into consideration as well is that many people will list fluoride in 'ppm'. Some will list it as 0ppm but still may actually contain it as they are just not giving you the full information as it could actually be 0.9ppm and they simply drop the .9 part which apparently is legal to do. The smallest amount of Fluoride is very reactive as the fluoride used by municipalities to dump in the water in the name of health actually comes from aluminum smelt plants. Basically a toxic waste that is 20 times stronger then natural fluorine. I wrote this somewhere in the forums before but I don't think people take it serious enough. You have expensive parts...Protect them!

Here is the MSDS sheet for the stuff they put in the water in the US, Europe and Ireland from the very company that makes it. http://www.pelchem.com/pdf/H2SiF6-MSDS.pdf

If you take a look it shows this...

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Where i am they use it in the drinking water.
I actually filled my loop with it about a month ago.
(I tore it apart after 7 months of a mixture of distilled/condensed
water and the gpu block was ALU and the loop was clean.
I removed the old gpu block and now have all copper but
with regular tap water ran thru the fliter.)

Only i run a PuR water filter, gonna rip it apart in about 2 months
and see how it looks.:shrug:

I suspect that the gunk on the center (and other low flow/pressure locations) of the GPU block is probably growth that has had a chance to absorb the G11 dye and the barb that's showing brass/copper (EK says they're brass but that looks like copper) was the inlet and the plating was eroded away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baleful

That's not corrosion. That's what's left over after your "pretty" and useless G11 that you added. G11 is a corrosion inhibitor, you're not mixing metals.... so guess what, you don't need it. Distilled + silver ingots/coils next time will yield better results.

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:up:

:ROTF:

how come when i say it this way i get chased out with pitchforks and you dont?

Ima teach you guys once more..

Discovered by ANDY, AKA MCOFFEY

PRESTONE SUPER FLUSH <-- usually premixed..

or

PRESTONE SUPER CLEAN diluted..


http://oljeep.com/rad/FSJRadiatorsan...s/image018.gif

~ 4 dollars i do a 30% dilution with water... Active ingrediant is Sodium Citrate and its been neutral so its not acidic..


If your RAD is new, just let her rip for about 15 min under a faucet with HOT water and then flush with distilled..


OH major mistake newbies will make is NOT RINCING WITH DISTILLED..

You use distilled coolant, use super clean stuff, yet you guys forget to rince TAP water out of your rads when you fill with distilled.

why? :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sirheck

Where i am they use it in the drinking water.
I actually filled my loop with it about a month ago.
(I tore it apart after 7 months of a mixture of distilled/condensed
water and the gpu block was ALU and the loop was clean.
I removed the old gpu block and now have all copper but
with regular tap water ran thru the fliter.)

Only i run a PuR water filter, gonna rip it apart in about 2 months
and see how it looks.:shrug:

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I bet you that water filter is going to look and smell like crap if you open her up. Filtering helps cut down the fluoride content but does not get rid of it 100%. The only method that is known to do so is reverse osmosis which I am think of getting a portable one for so I can send the distilled water through and have a really pure source for water loops. Heck who knows....may bottle it and sell it cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I suspect that the gunk on the center (and other low flow/pressure locations) of the GPU block is probably growth that has had a chance to absorb the G11 dye and the barb that's showing brass/copper (EK says they're brass but that looks like copper) was the inlet and the plating was eroded away.

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Seems like the most plausible explanation to me :up:

The gunk in on the gfx cooler could possibly be caused by crevice corrosion. You got the conditions, a small space in between the copper base and the acrylic top of the cooler and a funky mix of chemicals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sadasius

I bet you that water filter is going to look and smell like crap if you open her up. Filtering helps cut down the fluoride content but does not get rid of it 100%. The only method that is known to do so is reverse osmosis which I am think of getting a portable one for so I can send the distilled water through and have a really pure source for water loops. Heck who knows....may bottle it and sell it cheap.

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Yeah i have (in the past) changed the filters out.
They do kinda stink :down:
But now-a-days its like a cheap 69 dollar printer.
1; buy the black and color ink cartridges for about 50 bucks.
2; Or for about 20 bucks more just buy a whole new printer.

But yeah i plan on checking it to see how the insides look
around the end of january or by mid febuary.

That is if it doesnt freeze:eek:
Last night the on board software(Realtemp)
was reporting right at freezing temps and my pump
started sounding like a slushy machine.

So i shut my computer down and pulled the rad from the window.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

i hear that lol you see more horror storys from people who attempt to use vinegar on 400 dollars worth of cooling parts then hot water :p:

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I've always used hot tap water (I know, I know....) to clean my blocks, rad and pump and dry them with compressed air, never had any gunk build up or corrosion...

Unless you live in like some poor poor country your water will never be so hard that you would have such visible corrosion. Seriously half of you get way to worked up over algae and corrosion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Seriously half of you get way to worked up over algae and corrosion.

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:up:

i dont know about you all but at the wal-mart where i live (Kentucky so im sure everyone else has had this for probably 10 years) we have a reverse osmosis machine. water from the machine costs a mere $.33 per gallon... since you were saying reverse osmosis is the only way to totally rid water of fluoride (and probably a bunch of other junk) id say that that would be your best bet. they even have new containers so you dont have to use a old one. all in all its gonna cost a minute fraction of what your WC loop did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

You couldn't possibly be any more wrong when it comes to water hardness. Has absolutley nothing to do with the country you live in. It has to do with the lime desposits and other disovled minerals in the ground around the water supply where you live. No municipality that I know of in the US softens the water supply. That why water softening is a billion dollar industry in the US alone.

The main concern is the lime desposits and impurities collecting in the loop over time. It's just not a smart thing to do. You'd be insane to use common tap water in a PC loop where I live when considering distilled water is around 1.00 a gallon.

andyc

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Yeah....

Hard was the wrong word :D. Someone will say the word later on. What I mean is having high concentrations of heavy metals in your water. No one filters out any metals but contamination of water supplies is what I was insinuating before.

Distilled water is much more expensive here but meh it's not that expensive.



Oh and reverse osmosis is not distilled. It's more commonly known as deionised. It removes all charged particles [like metals] but organic matter remains.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vab206

i dont know about you all but at the wal-mart where i live (Kentucky so im sure everyone else has had this for probably 10 years) we have a reverse osmosis machine. water from the machine costs a mere $.33 per gallon... since you were saying reverse osmosis is the only way to totally rid water of fluoride (and probably a bunch of other junk) id say that that would be your best bet. they even have new containers so you dont have to use a old one. all in all its gonna cost a minute fraction of what your WC loop did.

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Running (condensed) water from a bucket under my house AC sys
has worked fine for me for months on end.:D

As i said earlier i havent used plain tap water for extended periods
of time before, well not in a computer sys.

I dont think i will have any problems.
If i do everyone will find out in about 2 months.
If i dont it will be like my running mixed metals for the last
7 months.= zero problems.
(Actually i didnt plan on it) never thought of the CM GPU cooler
having ALU in it with my pa120.3 and plain water:eek:
But no one preplied or had much to say about that.
Probably cause my sys was clean as a whistle:shrug:

sometimes .. i mean sometimes .. when you take out and rescrew the rad screws .. might peel off their paint ...
exposing the rad with the screws .. also when removing screws some of the cromium protect might wear off
with a slight damp on the fan ... bam! corrossion

this also occurred to me once when my rad sitting at the bottom of the case (alu) ..
and bleeding loop wasnt working well .. there's some water seeped into the rad+alu .. never noticed it ..
1 week run ... little fairies floated in the loop ... looks silvery .. kinda cool .. another week cloudiness began to occur ... u know the rest

The rest? I'm still laughing at the floating fairies :rotf:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

The rest? I'm still laughing at the floating fairies :rotf:

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mine was a stacker 830 .. and place the side covers on ...
since it's mesh type .. and i couldnt see what's actually happen (until the situation got worst)
the silvery floaters turn to black ... (i still cant figure out till today what is that floating thing)

i bleed it after a few months later .. i'm darn serious bout the silver dust or flakes or something .. looks nice when the flow is slowed down

that's bout the recollection

You haven't been to my area then. Our water is 17-18 grains!
boil it for 5 mins and you get white granules on bottom and a grey scum on top. Let it sit out for 12 hours and you see white haze on bottom of pan. ;)


david

P.S. it's all minerals. Not anything else as we have house prefilter and carbon filter on water mains

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Unless you live in like some poor poor country your water will never be so hard that you would have such visible corrosion. Seriously half of you get way to worked up over algae and corrosion.

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Err I could be wrong, but I believe demineralized is the correct term.
D.I. water(deionized) is where you used strong(in some cases weak) acids and base to pull out all cations/anions.

In the lab here we have super pure 18.2MOhm water that is refered to as "dd" water. It means Dimineralized/DeIonized water.
The :banana::banana::banana::banana: will dry out your hands minutes and if you drink it.... well we're talking, "taking a stroll in the sahara feeling", dry mouth.


David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Yeah....

Hard was the wrong word :D. Someone will say the word later on. What I mean is having high concentrations of heavy metals in your water. No one filters out any metals but contamination of water supplies is what I was insinuating before.

Distilled water is much more expensive here but meh it's not that expensive.



Oh and reverse osmosis is not distilled. It's more commonly known as deionised. It removes all charged particles [like metals] but organic matter remains.

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honestly from the pictures it appears like vinegar reactions have taken place. i have an old MCW60 that i accidentally left in vinegar for a while and then let dry on its own and it turned blue like your block did.

if you flushed your loop with vinegar while it was put together then its very possible that vinegar slipped between the acrylic and the block, where there is no flow. this combined with 7 months long of fluid submersion will lead to vinegar reactions that become noticeable.

if you use vinegar to clean block surfaces, make sure you do it outside of a built loop and then clean with distilled water/rubbing alcohol and THEN build your loop.

my $.02

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baleful

People still use vinegar? Must be an XS thing :D

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Yeah, if you really wanna clean some copper, bust out the glacial acetic acid.

But good luck on getting it back off.

Or avoiding oxidation from reacting with the air.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vab206

i dont know about you all but at the wal-mart where i live (Kentucky so im sure everyone else has had this for probably 10 years) we have a reverse osmosis machine. water from the machine costs a mere $.33 per gallon... since you were saying reverse osmosis is the only way to totally rid water of fluoride (and probably a bunch of other junk) id say that that would be your best bet. they even have new containers so you dont have to use a old one. all in all its gonna cost a minute fraction of what your WC loop did.

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Damn, wish I lived near your Walmart. That is probably as good as your going to get and dirt cheap too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Oh and reverse osmosis is not distilled. It's more commonly known as deionised. It removes all charged particles [like metals] but organic matter remains.

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Ummm no....Here is a couple links to explain what is what....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis