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Does Swiftech have any plans for a MCR320-QP Res ?
As Magicool are doing one.
http://www.magicool.biz/Magicool/Radiators_elegant.html
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/mc360mod01b.jpg
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/r...mc360mod01.jpg
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/r...mc360mod02.jpg
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/r...mc360mod03.jpg
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/r...mc360mod04.jpg
.
Is that the sheen of all copper, or do mine eyes deceive me?
http://www.magicool.biz/Magicool/Radiators_elegant.html
Quote
" Copper fins, complete electroplated "
Not sure what that means , Lets hope it's not electroplated Aluminium :D :p:
.
Yeah Gabe!
That would be a great idea.
I dont use a res. on my ST 220 of course as it has the res. built in.
I also dont use a res. for my TC pa120.3.
No T-lines either.
I usually syringe fill my TC pa.120.3 sys or just pull a vaccum
on it to fill.
Make a prototype mcr320 with res. and send it to me
and you can have my pa120.3:D
I wouldn't like it because it limits how you place your rad.
Well not neccesarily i have one of my swiftech 220,sQuote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
mounted horizontally.
Though filling it up vertical and then laying it on its side
i did hear air or cavitation but i just angled it about 45 degrees
and filled it as much as i could and its nice and quite.
Definetly no more acrylic please.
That just screams "waiting to leak" IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
noooooooooooooooo
Gabe can you double thread the rads.
so it has threads in the REAR as well as the front.
STACKING MCR320 FTW!!!
You can stack 2 and not lose too much performance. Martin tested the air delta to be less then 1C. Having 2 rads stacked and having a passthough so we can in a sense SLI radiators = PWNAGE!!
you can kiss fesser goodbye with a package like that!
+1:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
If it is possible that will save some of us a lot of space. I will like to get a second mcr320 but am still thinking of how/where to mount it on my old case.
It do pretty good in the roundup and with low speed fans.
"Electroplated water chamber of polycarbonate" wth :O
I thought electroplating only for metal
It a polycarbonate m8.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams
NO!
Look at how those 'tops' are held on!
The unpainted copper itself could be kind of cool, but not the plastic tops. Just don't paint the radiating part of an MCR320 and you'd have the same thing but better.
And yes, stackable radiators!
Acrylic. If the reservoir leaks, that radiator will make a good door stop.
:rofl: :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
I like acrylic, but not on my radiator...
That looks like a disaster waiting to happen :eek:
That design with the copper bent over the caps has been and is still used on almost
all automotive radiators built today.
I have seen them leak which is normal for high mileage vehicles.
I have also seen brand new ones leak and with no pressure on them.
But most have been cheap aftermarket ones.
It says polycarbonate tops, not acrylic. I thought polycarbonate was what everyone wanted...
wow, now i know how a rad works. Great post thanks!
Yep, exactly. The problem is, ppl see a picture of a clear material and automatically think acrylic. They should also follow links more often and read because if they did, they would see that the rad is indeed made of copper by how heavy it is in comparison to Magicool's aluminum versions. Assumption is becoming the order of the day and research/common sense is becoming a lost art. :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Welcome to our conversation.... what, MONTHS ago. :welcome:
That acrylic looks like a leak waiting to happen. When are we going to get transparent aluminum like in startrek? lol
it's polycarbonate.
Read the entire thread. Definitely good feed-back for future products.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Was actually thinking about it last night, even b4 I read the thread.
140's are also interesting. We have some sample fans for this. considerable space issues though.
Given the choice, what do you prefer? stacking 2 rads, or using 140's ?
I'd personally prefer stacking 2 rads.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
100% most definitely stacked radiators, Gabe. I would be among the most enthusiastic user of Swiftech radiators if that were to happen.
Stacking two 140s!Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Most cases are wide enough for 140mm radiators, and they are usually custom-mounted anyway... I feel like I saw another brand simply including 140 to 120mm adapters for fans to make it more mainstreamish. You could even make a custom shroud that adapted the full rectangular 140-size radiator to the standard triple-120 form, so it would work with existing mounts.
And for stackable radiators, all Swiftech would really need to do is make pluggable passthroughs, right? As in, 'behind' the normal inlet/outlet, have another G1/4 tap.
You could have the 2 rads with a space or slot in the middle to put fans.
So for a triple and double, one set of fans would pull the air thru the first one
and push it out thru the second one.
Also make it so additional fans could be added to the outside.
So a triple rad could have up to 9 fans.
And a double could have up to 6 fans.
Please elaborate on rationale & if possible ranking feature/benefits of interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
To answer Gabe: Stacking rads for sure. I could spend 80 bucks and get 2 more MCR220s to stack with the 2 I currently have rather than spending 200-250+ to buy 2 completely new rads for my 2 loops.
Back to the original Question as the Magicool was just an example of a triple res rad :)
@ Gabe
Does swiftech have any plans on MCR320-QP Res ?
Ie : a triple version of this
http://www.jab-tech.com/xcart/produc...led/d_3940.jpg
.
Also make a single MCR320 with a res. built in.
Thats what i ment :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sirheck
We are considering a number of options to expand our radiator offerings. Yes, this solution has definitely been brought up for discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digz
Yeah ya beat me to it.:D
Ok. We can try out a small series, see how it goes. This would make a nice Xmas present :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sirheck
(1) You have the most efficient radiator in the market measured by performance per unit size. Your radiators are slim, and yet they are only marginally worse performing than an equal fan size Thermochill.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
(2) You have the most cost efficient product in the market, as measured by performance per unit cost. Simply said, your radiators are cheap. Thermochills are 2.5 to 3 times the cost, as are Fesers. Black Ices are still twice as costly.
(3) MCRs perform well with low speed fans, which isn't the case with Hardware Labs products.
(4) I have a liking for multiple independent loops, and there are a few cases that can accomodate multiple radiators. There are only two brand of cases I know that can hold quad radiators, and then only one or two at most. The case I like can actually hold many many more radiators, and the slim MCR is a perfect candidate.
(5) SLI-style radiators will introduce the concept of modularity to radiators. One can add a radiator initially to fill the fan holes in a case. And then, space allowing, stack another radiator.
(6) Ultimately, I am convinced deep down that stacked MCR320s will out perform the equivalent PA120.3 or Feser triple or Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX.
(7) Stacked MCR320s, assuming a 38mm fan in between, will have an approximate width of 100 mm. The Feser Monsta without fan will be 100mm wide. Anyone like to place a bet with me regarding which radiator will outperform which radiator?
(8) I've been a Swiftech customer for quite a long time (measured in IT years) and you guys have, on a whole, released the most compelling portfolio of water cooling products I have encountered.
enough reasons... heh
Thanks for the reply Gabe :)
Maybe a Mod could make a poll so you can get feedback to see if it would be of intrest to others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Let me know i will buy it and test it.
And probably like it.
Regarding features, as per Naekuh, I would like to see pass through barbs, just like a video block. I would use a 25 mm or 38 mm male to male barb for SLI purposes. The two radiators will sandwich a fan in between.
Look how bored I am. I just SolidWorksed a fictional solution that probably isn't even good for a fictional product that will probably never happen.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6699/a1xq2.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3664/a2yl7.jpg
Everything is sized to standard, except 140mm fan hole spacing, which I have no idea on. I estimated, but I don't think it matters (for the concept).Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Obviously this thing could/would/should be slimmed down to be cheaper to make, it's built like a tank... it was easier to do this as a 'rough draft' than to have flanges for the screws and thin-walled plastic.
EDIT started to thin it up a bit but I don't have the patience right now to try to figure out where to leave it thick enough so that the screw wells don't puncture the sides. Other than that, it could pretty much be easily made of thin plastic.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4076/a3dp4.th.jpghttp://img521.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif
agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
easy enough to test :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Thanks for the feed-back, it is truly appreciated. :up:
I'd be down for stacked MCR320's for sure.
That whole shroud thing is nice bit those 140mm rads just take up a lot of space without an equal incremental amount of cooling. Plus the selection of 140 mm fans are pathetic.
You could use 120mm fans if such a shroud were made, or even with existing 140 to 120mm single shrouds (x3). But then you have to wonder whether the 140mm-ness of the radiator is even being used.
EDIT but of course, the shroud is more there for mounting, not fans. So all those expensive cases won't be rendered obsolete.
EDIT then again, I'm still trying to wrap my head around trying to affix a radiator to a case with that. Adding the screw wells was the first realization, but I'm trying to think of an order to do things so you won't have to stick your screwdriver through a radiator to tighten.
You're not a fan of those Yates are you IanY ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
I deleted my post because I thought you were saying
but then realized you meant more likeQuote:
only negative is: "lost of some flow speed" and "gain heat loss for more surface area"
...unless you are saying the heat loss is a bad thing.Quote:
only negative is lost of some flow speed; however there is a gained heat loss for more surface area
Dont mind my art skills they suck.
But something like this?
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...adsandwich.jpg
Guess you could put one crossover tube at the top and one at the bottom?
Or just put both at the top:shrug:
:woot: That would be awsome, are you going to keep the same formfactor?Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
(rez top and close fiting spacing)
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...dsandwich2.jpg
Added a barb at the bottom for what its worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
One could even add fans on the outside for a total of 6:eek:
about gabe's question earlier: I currently have only one mcr320.
I plan on buying a 420 rad (this is for sure my next cooling upgrade).
I would also like to stack my MCR320 with an MCR220. If this were an option, I would do it for sure.
Stacking options across the MCR line would make them widely popular IMHO. Instead of having to go from a 220 to a 320, you could stack another 220 or 320 on to your existing loop. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by adpr_02
Just that the water flow would have to first go through the second rad, and then through the rad that sucks the air initially. That way warm water goes to the rad receiving warmer air and cooler water goes to the rad with the cold air.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
Either way, I am going to stack. There just isn't room in my case for extra rads. It would be so much more popular if there was a design for it instead of leaving it to noobs like me to improvise.
Think about putting the northbridge and moffsets on a separate loop on a radiator that is stacked. You don't need insane cooling for those, but you still have amazing results with minimal space taken and no negative impact on the radiator it is stacked to.
You could nearly put a 220 under a 320 no problem, just find a way to screw them together!
I think one could fashion some sort of custom bracket. Because a 320 and a 220 won't interfere with the barbs and all.
Yes, you can screw a 220 to a 320 right now. You need a 90 degree screwdriver, a fan with an open design (so no Petra YLs) and a bit of patience with the 6-32 1/4" screws, turning them 1/4 turn at a time.
I use both your MCR320 and 220 I'm for the rad stack
-sponge
Especially if you have some extra room at the ends and can have the barbs of the second rad overhang the barbless end of the first rad.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
Also I'd rather be able to expand capacity by increasing depth rather than an increase in height or width (however you want to consider it). When watercooling a small case, LL A-05b, without cutting into the case there are only 120mm fans so if I can use 4 120 mm rads (2 front, 2 back) then there would be a huge draw to buy SLI Swiftech's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket733
True, thicker is better, but there are a lot of thick rads already on the market which meet the demand.
The reason I went with Swiftech in the first place was because they were thin rads. I will eventually buy an MCR120 to put in the back of the case where the exhaust fan would go. If their rads were much thicker, I would not be able to do that. Also, my MCR320 is in the front of my case standing vertically above my dvd and HDD bays and if it were any thicker, I wouldn't be able to fit my upcoming 420 rad horizontally at the top of my case.
So thin is definitely a plus in many cases, as I am sure that I am not the only one who benefits from these rads.
I love swiftech rads and seeing an option tht would allow us to stack them would be absolutely amazing. You have no idea how much I hope this idea comes to fruition...
I completely ignored the idea of using open-end fans. I have so few!Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
EDIT that also solves my dilemma trying to figure out how to attach my proposed shroud/adapter. It's so simple!
Time to use the Dremel and make some, I suppose.
Imagine a 320 at the top, a 220 under it, and a 120 under the 220!
Too bad I centered my 320 on the top of my case. If I had put it towards the 'front' some, all this could hang down in front of my motherboard. Now I don't even know if I can hang a 220 (well, I could get rid of the shroud and only have one layer of fans, but yeah).
How about a square MCR 22CM - QP Res :D :p:
http://www.akasa.co.uk/akasa_english...f2230sm_cb.htm
22CM fan
http://ivory.vnunet.com/images/hardw...m-cb/large.jpg
http://geizhals.at/img/pix/325500.jpg
http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/file...f2230sm_cb.gif
OH MAN!!! Any way to disable those leds? Nice find :clap:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digz
Yeah i would hate the Leds too.
Stack rads for sure, in MCR320 flavour.(Crossfire RADS) :up:
I donīt care about the res as it will hinder mounting methods.
@Gabe:-Please when will the redesigned MCW60, for HD 4870 block hit the market?
I know this, but having the option to screw them together @ the barbs would be nicer and cleaner.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewZorn
I like NaeKuh's idea of double-threads. And what about triple-threads? :rolleyes:
Two more perpendicular threads would be great for integration!
Like this : (but seriously, no aluminium! :D )
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...hx-1020_p1.jpg
My pal iany said it simple and best.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
However Gabe one more thing that people arent aware of.. if we use good couplers and T designs, we can finally impliement a working theory on paralelling rads for lower flow drop and better performance.
I think we all forgot this concept a very long time ago because it was very messy to pull off, but having stackable rads, would in a sense open this door for us and make it fairly easy.
Kapt, according to martin and ME personally, the air in and air out though a rad even under 300W heat load is VERY SMALL in delta.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Having a good strong 38mm fan in the middle and then using T couplers to impliment paralell, this is where my idea and concept is going onto.
Remember THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE.
Was just thinking and why not take 2-MCR320's, face them towards one another( barbs facing together) use a Y connector and feed both from one line and a Y on the other side feeding out..
You can, but having hard fittings that can be threaded between them both would be cleaner and easier to deal with. You can plumb two video cards with tubing but many prefer the hard line spacers because they look better and are easier to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Well i had another paralell design thanks to that one dude who actually made me see the light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
would require the MCR tho to be double threaded on both sides.
basically you have 2 F's and one is inverted.
+100!Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Ive been reccomending the MCR series over the PA series for quite a while because I believed the performance was much much much closer than what was believed at the time and the price/perf ratio is just amazing. Thanks to martin for getting some solid proof of what I believed out into the wild.
Gabe one thing that I would really love is a bleed valve on one end. Tho having the radiator threaded on both ends, and possibly the top like the koolance that was posted would be great. Being able to lay the radiator flat and feed water in and out from both ends would be a huge advantage to many people out there that are stuck using 90 degree elbows, or the people that have their rads mounted on the bottom of a CM Stacker 830.
The price point of the MCR is the biggest selling point, even staying below the $70 for a MCR330 with the new end caps would still retain the price/perf king as all other equiv radiators that supposedly perform better are in the $130+ range.
Also having a way to fill and bleed air out at the radiator without removing it from the case would make things much easier for users who run 2 pumps in 1 loop.
Normally I run 2 D5 in my loop, but in order to make things easier to bleed and fill it required a 2nd place in my loop to bleed out the air, and my only choice was to add a "T" after my rad to bleed the air out of that section of my loop. Being able to mount my MCR330 upside down and having a bleed screw (or any way to bleed) on the end cap would have made life so much easier.
As of now I have had to remove 1 of my D5 from my loop simply because of this obstacle.
Ok i got some better pics of the so called (SLI) rad set-up.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...Picture163.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...Picture162.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...Picture161.jpg
you know, if that pic is on your comp, you could just press print screen on your keyboard, go to paint, chop it up and then post it here. It's be higher quality and less hassle. Nice pic though. Used autocad?
What about a shroud Gabe? Other than gutting fans or using TFC's shrouds I do not know of one for the MCR series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerlad
Yeah im not so good at posting pics:(
Cant get my (Snag-it) to work so i just took a pic
with my camera.
I used (google sketch-up)
And can bearly use that:D
Nice Job with the Google Sketch I've tried and failed horribly with that program...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demthios
I almost do myself.
Freeware Screen capture Util
http://www.analogx.com/contents/down...em/capture.htm
.
What is wrong with "Print Screen" + paint + Photobucket?
Stacking sounds like a great idea, just have to make sure that it does end up being compact in the end, rather than just two radiators mounted somewhere close to each other and then named "stacked".
I support thicker radiators rather than stacking method, It looks like it requires stronger fans.
I think the parallel fins on the Swiftech rads is give them the edge in performance in relative price.
Also I must say I'm very impressed with Swiftech inovvation lately, Keep up the good work! :up:.
no u need an F
what you posted is a U and you'll pass the front rad entirely.
Having an outlet on the oposite side on the rear would keep that system paralell
Remember 2 F's but one is fliped.
Okey i made each pathway a different color. You guys can see, both bottom and top have = pathway to the exit, hence why this will work.
I wanted to find the dude that i said it wouldnt work and appologize, but guys, this will work.
Well the math behind it says it will work.
I believe the cost would go up dramatically with a thicker radiator. The stacked approaches allows you to manufacture just one unit and add (or stack) units to get the desire performance. While a thicker single rad might give better performance, production and overhead costs might make it significantly more expensive than a pair of stack rads.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrustSSC
Great idea guys, I can wait to see what happens with this...
I don't understand how the water could pass through the first radiator and only flow through the second? They both offer the same resistance.
EDIT: I take that back. The back one on the end probably offers a bit mroe resistance as it's on the end, but it can't be that much more resistance.
If the radiators were made in that F pattern that you posted Naekuh, that would make radiator installations -internal or external - pretty damn difficult. What about a crossflow configuration somehow? In at the top, out at the bottom.
nah..Quote:
Originally Posted by Polizei
water will always go down the less restrictive path. In the design he had think about it. Water will go in and will completely skip the first rad, impact off the second go down and once again Spit the front rad on the way back.
The F design is based off 2 L's. So both are = length, and would offer the same restriction. This would then make the water go down paralell.
Yes tubing it would be messier i know, but i think that would be our ideal Paralell for the rads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polizei
Yeah the flow of coolant thru the first rad would have to hit a (RAMP,
for lack of a better word) that would allow the coolant to pass thru
the first rad then back to the tube to the next rad.:shrug:
After thinking about it some more, I think both rads would offer the same resistance.
Why would the water "skip" over the first radiator and flow through the second if the second offered more resistance? I think flow would be the same.
No way to know for sure until Gabe tests some prototypes or sends some prototypes to Martinm.
well use this scenario then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polizei
Your driving a car and u come to a 3 way intersection.
Foward and you have left and back.
Which direction do you think will take the least amount of effort to maintain? I think its foward.
By that you just answered your question.
What do you guys think about this setup with barb screws positions?
I believe it is about the best way to make it function and equally giving the end user multiple mounting options.
i like this... you can go parallel AND series... whichever way you choose...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocker003
Hey guys,
I've been doin some paintwork for a UK system builder, and they have already implemented parrallel rad's with great effect. there's no need to use side barbs etc etc though.
Beast have called it 'para-flow' it works pretty well to be honest. The system I'm painting is for one of the beast para-flow chassis'.
If you can get the rads in the right place it works well, I know they have had tons of alterations made to the cases and pieces fabricated and stuff - it's crackers but looks sick, and performs!
here's the review that was written up with some details of the 2 rads. Some of you may be able to make more sense of it.
http://www.cpu3d.com/review/6135-1/b...roduction.html
they're set up differently to the sketches in this thread; much neater.
I can see a need for some 'out side the box' thinking as far as rad design goes; but at the same time people have always worked around this. Its kind of become second nature to visualise a loop with a standard lay out rad.
Here's the painted one too:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=202099
aint finished in the log (is in RL - all will be revealed :P)
by the way; gabe... why to the RES versions not have a G1/4 drain port? the thread size is a nightmare!
I see where you are going, but it's gonna add cost and size onto the rads. Perhaps the demand isnt as great for such a rad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocker003
I do think it would be usefull to have 4 options, (both sides) but not on the ends.
It will cost just extra barb screws and screw plugs; Nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by R B Customs
We will all be happy that we can configure our rads the way we want.
You make some good points and I like where this thread is going. Another concern is internal rad placement where you tend to have more depth than width. For example 140mm is wider than a typical 5.25" bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsdv10