OCZ Hydroflow Mini Review

First off a special thanks to a few folks before I get started:

Tony at OCZ for the block sample and OCZ freeze sample I have yet to try out.
Gary at Sidewinder for providing me with the Q6600 that has been recieving all the abuse lately.
Martin and Mario at TFC for the TFC480ER radiator used in testing
Alex from Petras for the free MX-2.
Paul from XSPC for the XSPC ResTop pump top combo.
And everyone in the forum for putting up with my science & testing mantra...:up:

Here is a link to my full review if you want details:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/OCZ_...ow_Review.html

First up the block:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/OCZ-Hydroflow-1.jpg

The accessories package is extremely complete, not only one, but two backplates, two hold down plates, two sets of metal barbs, and everything you could possibly need...this is one of the most complete accessory packages I've seen...very nice!!
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/OCZ-Hydroflow-4.jpg

Internals:
A nice durable crack resistant black nylon top (Thanks waterlogged) and a copper triangular pin/fin arrangement base.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/OCZ-Hydroflow-6.jpg

And a stepped base to maximize mounting pressure over the critical die location:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/OCZ-Hydroflow-8.jpg

The mounting mechanism is very well thought out. It uses standoffs to hold the backplate in place and a combination of washers/springs and thumb/screw nuts to tighten the block down. More importantly these screws install the block with a fair amount of mounting pressure and they bottom out when done, so there is a very posotive "I'm done" with the screws when you've installed them correctly, and this ensures all four corners have the same pressure and the block is true.:up:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...droflow-10.jpg

Fitting compatibility = 3/4" OD barbs fit with plenty of room to spare. Pretty much any barb will work here.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/OCZ-Hydroflow-9.jpg

Pressure drop was about equal to the Apogee GT which is probably less than average in restriction of all the blocks I've tested. This is good and means flexibility in using the block in either multiple block loops or loops with pumps of lower power..:up:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...ssureDropC.png

Thermal testing, first a few words about thermal testing. It is plaqued with inaccuracys, our DTS sensors are only resolved to 1C, so trying to pick apart more resolution than that is a real challenge. In addition I've tested several blocks of the same type before and managed to squeeze different levels of performance out of one over the other. Finally, each processor is different particularly when it comes to dual core vs quad core, performance on one does not equate to the performance on another. All you can really conclude from testing is a general understanding how a block peforms on your particular setup and it may or may not be the same on another system.

With that said on my setup, I found tha the As Shipped thermal performance is about equal to the Apogee GT, although more mounting pressure could possibly improve this by a couple of degrees.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/...alCompared.png

It's a nice block, has an amazing accessory package, awesome price, and performance is at least on par with the bowed Apogee GT...likely improved with more mounting pressure by the use of additional washers which are included in the package.

Cheers!:toast2:
Martin

So, decent all around performance, good compatibility, nice bundle, and a low low price.

Looks like a good replacement block for my brothers old TDX.

good review there

nice block

Very nice martin!! This is on par with what I expected, about = to the Apogee GT.

I really like the fact they stepped the base right out of the box. Great pictures and review Martin, as always!

Another nice review martin.:up:

:up: Very nice. I need to learn how to make those excellent looking graphs!

informative yet concise - fantastic job Martin:clap:


nice block too:up:

Hmm, I was close, but not close enough. :shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Meh, looks like it'll be an average performer. I say this knowing how deceptive photo's can be but I can't help but notice how similar the pins are to the original Apogee in both size and quantity. This blocks only saving grace may be the step which may bring the performance in line with maybe the Apogee GTX.

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Looks like I gave it just a smidge too much credit on performance.


Great test as always Martin. :up: .....and a decent entry level (average) block for OCZ. :up: I think I'm seeing how OCZ might go for Hydroflow v2. ;)

Edit: Martin, the top is made from nylon, not Acetal/Delrin.

Maybe it's just the picture, but is the stepped part of the base wide enough to cover both dies on a quad (if it makes a difference at all)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Edit: Martin, the top is made from nylon, not Acetal/Delrin.

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You guys are my editors...off to fixing that, I just assumed since it was black and resembled delrin.

Thanks!:up:

Hmm... since its so free flowing, I wonder how it'd with some nozzles.

and only $40!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YMAA

Maybe it's just the picture, but is the stepped part of the base wide enough to cover both dies on a quad (if it makes a difference at all)?

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The step is 24.3mm +- in width (Hard to measure with calipers). I don't know all the dimensions of the actual dies, but I thought that was big enough to cover current quads.

Here is the measurement in question...I thought that might come up.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2590/oczstepmw5.jpg

I made Naeku's ACDI 25mm, but Scott was looking for 23mm on his block I have yet to do.

I think 24mm is about right..

Thank you Martin, very informative as always. Much appreciated!

Martin, another fantastic review, thank you.

1st of all my apologies if this was already brought up in the other thread.

From your description (scrubbing + turbulence) I imagine the flow path is like this:
(circles are inlet/outlet, lines are floooow)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/813...roflow7mf0.jpg

Provided the mounting holes are square, what do you think will happen if we rotate the base 90deg? I (wild ass guess) think worse temps but even lower restriction?
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1...roflow7ts6.jpg

I was wondering WHICH way it was supposed to be (no, I didn't read everything) and also wondered whether there would be different, yet differently rewarding ways to configure it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kibbler

Martin, another fantastic review, thank you.

1st of all my apologies if this was already brought up in the other thread.

From your description (scrubbing + turbulence) I imagine the flow path is like this:
(circles are inlet/outlet, lines are floooow)


Provided the mounting holes are square, what do you think will happen if we rotate the base 90deg? I (wild ass guess) think worse temps but even lower restriction?

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Good question.

Here is a picture straight from the box, so it does flow with the direction of the 45 degree fin cuts.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9...rectionln2.jpg

Going against the direction of the pattern would likely make it more restrictive, not sure what it would do for thermal performance though.:shrug:

i agree with the well thought out mounting method...the am2+ plate for the fuzion v1 gives way too easy and could really use those standoffs

Martin, great review, thanks man. Looks like a solid performer that might grow to new heights with a little tweaking. Cheers.

is there a reason why the flow graph has no dtek v1 but the temp one dose

I think the point with the temp graph was to show what it was close to and a reference, not to make it look bad.

Good write-up and review Martin...thanks again! :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zanzabar

is there a reason why the flow graph has no dtek v1 but the temp one dose

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No, I just don't like the graphs all cluttered. The D-Tek V1 is a very free flowing block, just slightly higher than the DD MC-TDX. If I show all the blocks on the same graph it just gets really hard to follow, some overlap and are identical. My intent was to show the relative restriction to a similar cross flow pin/fin type block which it's pretty close to how my GT came as shipped.

The Hydroflow is slightly different in that it flows corner to corner over a larger distance so it's very slightly more restrictive which is consistent with the GTX vs GT.

well hmmm, this gives me a tough decision (I think I'll wait it out for a full review) Apogee GTZ or Hydroflow??? I want to support OCZ in this endeavor and I think the block might really be able to cool with more pressure on the mount and maybe a turned base...

This block reminds me of Cathar G5, which I think was one of the best-looking blocks ever made :D

I like that it comes with everything. OCZ don't seem to aim for the creme de la creme, instead opt to dominate the mid segment. The pricing of their keyboard is a win win win. While not related, I feel the performance and package is of a similar strategy. If I need to just do a cpu loop for another pc I would definitely consider this.

This block appears a worthy competitor to the Apogee GT.


I have honestly become more interested in value than performance in my watercooling products since the advent of cooler running 45nm Intel chips, and Phenoms which are so-so regardless of cooling (yes look what I have in my sig :p:)

The whole "just a hair better so everything else sucks" trend has begun to make me rather disenchanted with aftermarket cooling... it gets a little boring TBH. Right now I am running stock cooling on my CPU and GPU. :down:

It is nice to see companies looking to compete in this niche. I would love to start to see those on a limited budget designing more well balanced systems and getting more value and enjoyment for their dollar in the end.

DD seems to have rattled the pump market a bit with the CPX-Pro, enough to compete with the MCP350 at newegg for $55.

What I really would like to see is some variety in the low end (say less than $70) radiator market in the US. Swiftech pretty much is unbeatable at the moment IMO with the MCR320 at its current price point. That is a real value for your money product right there.

It looks shexy and preforms shexy :D

SOLD :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

You guys are my editors...off to fixing that, I just assumed since it was black and resembled delrin.

Thanks!:up:

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NP. :up:

Even though Tony never mentioned the type Nylon used, I have a sneaking suspicion it might be Nylon 6/6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

NP. :up:

Even though Tony never mentioned the type Nylon used, I have a sneaking suspicion it might be Nylon 6/6.

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Just take a peek through McMaster-Carr and see what all of the pipe and tube fittings are made from. :p:

No reason for OCZ to deviate from the norm... just costs more for no reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

Just take a peek through McMaster-Carr and see what all of the pipe and tube fittings are made from. :p:

No reason for OCZ to deviate from the norm... just costs more for no reason.

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Meh, could be. :shrug: He did seem to get kind of defensive when asked about which type they are using though. ;)

Very nice review (and great pics). Thank you, Martin!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Meh, could be. :shrug: He did seem to get kind of defensive when asked about which type they are using though. ;)

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True, I did notice that... I suppose it could be taken either way.

I have dealt with quite a good deal of plastics over the years in my line of work, including various flavors of nylon so there is a good chance I could take an accurate guess if I had the block in hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Going against the direction of the pattern would likely make it more restrictive, not sure what it would do for thermal performance though.:shrug:

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You knew someone would ask this sooner or later:p: would you mind trying it out for us?

Nice review, hope the block will end up as one of the cheaper options though considering the performance.

Again another great review Martin!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by naokaji

You knew someone would ask this sooner or later:p: would you mind trying it out for us?

Nice review, hope the block will end up as one of the cheaper options though considering the performance.

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As for UK pricing we now have the blocks listed here

Its actually the second cheapest CPU Block we sell :)

We put a lot of work into the top material, it had to have a good resistance to cold and well as being good when hot...and it had to be tolerant to our injection moulds.

I have mentioned this to Martin already and i did mention this in the preview thread...If you increase mounting pressure to around 75LBs the temps will improve. Flow is accross the block in line with the channels as per Martins pic....it will flow the other way also with increased resistance although I never measured performance.

I test here a little different to Martin, I understand he asked you guys how you would like to see tests performed and i respect those wishes...From my tests using a controlled mount (IE the same exact pressure for all blocks) and temperature controlled water (average 20.5c) I had the Fusion just over 1C better than HF and HF better than the Apogee GT, however when all blocks were tested with 75LBs pressure the HF pulled away by near 2C, the Fusion did not react to mounting pressure increases anywhere near as good as the HF did and for that matter the Apogee GT. Each review you will see will be slightly different though, each has their own methods etc and we at OCZ respect that. I said we were here to compete and compete we do...I think pricing is on our side with this block and if I can get it down further with the next order I will be sure to pass the savings on to you guys.
If you want to try 75LBs pressure just add a 1mm thick Nylon washer under the spring but on top of the mounting plate...2mm will give 100LBs.

Overall i think the block did ok and i thank Martin for spending some of his personal time testing for you guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aqua-Pc's

Again another great review Martin!



As for UK pricing we now have the blocks listed here

Its actually the second cheapest CPU Block we sell :)

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Nice price for UK customers :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

Flow is accross the block in line with the channels as per Martins pic....it will flow the other way also with increased resistance although I never measured performance.

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At this price we can all buy one and test it ourselves. Thanks for the info Tony.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

This block appears a worthy competitor to the Apogee GT.


I have honestly become more interested in value than performance in my watercooling products since the advent of cooler running 45nm Intel chips, and Phenoms which are so-so regardless of cooling (yes look what I have in my sig :p:)

The whole "just a hair better so everything else sucks" trend has begun to make me rather disenchanted with aftermarket cooling... it gets a little boring TBH. Right now I am running stock cooling on my CPU and GPU. :down:

It is nice to see companies looking to compete in this niche. I would love to start to see those on a limited budget designing more well balanced systems and getting more value and enjoyment for their dollar in the end.

DD seems to have rattled the pump market a bit with the CPX-Pro, enough to compete with the MCP350 at newegg for $55.

What I really would like to see is some variety in the low end (say less than $70) radiator market in the US. Swiftech pretty much is unbeatable at the moment IMO with the MCR320 at its current price point. That is a real value for your money product right there.

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We have the same pumps on the way, im doing my best to make them really attractive on price.

Tony.. or Martin... any chance to test with with nozzles? Since its so free flowing, give the option to increase restriction to Fuzion v2 levels and see how it performs with that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

We have the same pumps on the way, im doing my best to make them really attractive on price.

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Excellent... watercooling for the masses. :up:


I may be picking up one of your blocks along with a pump in that case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

I have honestly become more interested in value than performance in my watercooling products since the advent of cooler running 45nm Intel chips, and Phenoms which are so-so regardless of cooling (yes look what I have in my sig :p:)

The whole "just a hair better so everything else sucks" trend has begun to make me rather disenchanted with aftermarket cooling... it gets a little boring TBH. Right now I am running stock cooling on my CPU and GPU.

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Same here, I used to spend whatever it took, both time and money, for that extra one or two degree difference in temperature. That was a long time ago. Now if a can buy a quality component that comes within that margin of performance at a decent cost savings that's the one I'll buy. For me this block looks like a win-win situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

Tony.. or Martin... any chance to test with with nozzles? Since its so free flowing, give the option to increase restriction to Fuzion v2 levels and see how it performs with that?

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I don't have Nozzles here, so its one for Martin if he is willing.

Well consider the option nonetheless Tony... the Fuzion v1 IMO did a great thing with having a free flowing block that performed adequately.. but had the option to be 'upgraded' to better performance at the cost of restriction for those who can handle it.. If you could offer 2-3 extra nozzles for $4.99 that would be sweet spot I think and would further increase your market share as not just a 'value' block but also a performance block.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

...however when all blocks were tested with 75LBs pressure the HF pulled away by near 2C, the Fusion did not react to mounting pressure increases anywhere near as good as the HF did and for that matter the Apogee GT.

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Yeah because at those sort of mount pressures you are FLATTENING out the bow... impossible to flatten out a step though ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

Tony.. or Martin... any chance to test with with nozzles? Since its so free flowing, give the option to increase restriction to Fuzion v2 levels and see how it performs with that?

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Sorry to say that nozzles will do nothing for this block since inlet is at the side... nozzles can only really potentially help blocks with center inlet....

I forgot to mention, nice review Martin!

Boj, one little problem I see in trying to nozzles with this block is that the inlet isn't over the cores. The most turbulent part of the flow would actually be removing heat from the corner of the IHS.

edit: Dang, nik beat me to it.

Ahhh... I understand now... thank you for the lesson guys .. love this place :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

We put a lot of work into the top material, it had to have a good resistance to cold and well as being good when hot...and it had to be tolerant to our injection moulds.

I have mentioned this to Martin already and i did mention this in the preview thread...If you increase mounting pressure to around 75LBs the temps will improve. Flow is accross the block in line with the channels as per Martins pic....it will flow the other way also with increased resistance although I never measured performance.

I test here a little different to Martin, I understand he asked you guys how you would like to see tests performed and i respect those wishes...From my tests using a controlled mount (IE the same exact pressure for all blocks) and temperature controlled water (average 20.5c) I had the Fusion just over 1C better than HF and HF better than the Apogee GT, however when all blocks were tested with 75LBs pressure the HF pulled away by near 2C, the Fusion did not react to mounting pressure increases anywhere near as good as the HF did and for that matter the Apogee GT. Each review you will see will be slightly different though, each has their own methods etc and we at OCZ respect that. I said we were here to compete and compete we do...I think pricing is on our side with this block and if I can get it down further with the next order I will be sure to pass the savings on to you guys.
If you want to try 75LBs pressure just add a 1mm thick Nylon washer under the spring but on top of the mounting plate...2mm will give 100LBs.

Overall I think the block did ok and I thank Martin for spending some of his personal time testing for you guys.

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Just to confirm, can the backplate and mount plate handle this kind of pressure without risk?

Thanks guys.
I'm out of town at the moment, so I can't do much of anything, but I did all my testing with one red washer under the springs. This really didn't feel like it was necessarily a ton of pressure, I was able to tighten the screws down with my fingers and didn't have to use a screwdriver, but I hear this was probably a good amount of pressure.

This one washer under the springs is what the instructions noted to do, so it was fitting of my intent to test the block "As Shipped" per the instructions. I did however try two orientations, one with the inlet on the upper left and a second on the lower left. The lower left was performing best for me, so that's how I ran all the rest of the mounts. I'll try a couple of mounts when I get back home with the additional washers in place and see if there is any change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

Just to confirm, can the backplate and mount plate handle this kind of pressure without risk?

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Anything over stock mounting you are on your own, that being said 99% of XS users look to be running with 100lbs+ on blocks some even without backplates.

I tend to apply pressure till just before the board starts to bend...even with a backplate the board still gives a little.

Hello.. nice block.. i am new here and have been wanting to cool my pc with a water setup.
i bought a few components a while back but after i mounted an air cooler, shut the case and loaded vista i got to slack and haven't got around to even starting it.
So Tony, consider yourself like a Tony Robbins. you, along with Martins great review have changed this mans direction in life.
I will now be buying your block and getting around to water cooling.

you have reached out and lent a helping hand.

All this talk about cost effective cooling has me remembering my Hydor L30 pump which went for 30$ iirc "back in the day" and would likely be no worse off in temp in a single block loop, not to mention the heatercores and shrouds (although I don't miss those, took up a lot of space)

Tony

Will there be a revision on the block? Seeing Martins review its far from the fusionv1 which can be for 7$ more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

Tony

Will there be a revision on the block? Seeing Martins review its far from the fusionv1 which can be for 7$ more.

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Far from the Fusion? Lowest temperature was 1.9C difference and highest was 1.6C difference. The edge goes to the Fusion but I don't see how it can be viewed as significant.

not to mention the extra pressure wasnt applied to the hydroflow, which is a stepped block and needs the extra pressure :fact:

I'm sure improvements are welcome. I'm still waiting on martin's test with higher pressure..i hope it won't destroy his quadcore..otherwise he's got to redo his testing. I'm doing some tests too but i don't wanna test something that performs less than the fusionv1.

I was expecting some wc users reacting to my question. 1.6C-1.9C from the Dtek Fusion is still marginal. some lap cpus to gain those deltas. xtreme are you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

I'm doing some tests too but i don't wanna test something that performs less than the fusionv1.

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Umm, what? If that is your attitude, I suggest you don't bother testing at all. I mean, the point of testing is to see how something performs (and on YOUR testbed, the more the merrier). How do you know something will or will not perform better than a certain benchmark without even testing it? :( Sigh.

If this blocks costs only $40 then this will probably be the best overall value block. It looks great, great build quality, it's compression-fitting-friendly, ease of use, decent pressure drops, and decent thermal performance (within 1-3C of top blocks √ ).

The key factor is the pricing, and if that's kept low then this is a clear winner IMO :up:

FYI,
I tried two 1mm washers for one mount and temps went up by about 1 degree (Hottest core was 51.9C). My processor is lapped though, so the gains with more pressure are probably much more significant with a stock IHS that may be concaved.

Anyhow, you guys with a stock IHS will have to try the higher pressure, it's not helping my lapped processor any.

nice block~I like the design and surface finish

Nice work as always Martin. :up:

This is a very nice looking block and should have a large market interested in it.

martins test results seem to be going the wrong way :( I found 75LBs was the optimum pressure, here the block during my tests beat the Fusion and the apogee GT...each testers results are going to be a little different though.

As i mentioned in my other thread I doubt block design is going to get much better than where it is now, I have a design for a jet block here that pretty much beats everything you see out there, the issue is it would cost a pretty penny to make it and would probably retail for $100, which i feel is just not worth doing.

it would be nice to see a performance/cost graph for all blocks tested so you can see what you are getting for your $$'s, in this age of collapsing banks etc i actually feel this may be what most end users will look for.

Also I don't see the Fusion doing as well just using convection ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

martins test results seem to be going the wrong way :( I found 75LBs was the optimum pressure, here the block during my tests beat the Fusion and the apogee GT...each testers results are going to be a little different though.

As i mentioned in my other thread I doubt block design is going to get much better than where it is now, I have a design for a jet block here that pretty much beats everything you see out there, the issue is it would cost a pretty penny to make it and would probably retail for $100, which i feel is just not worth doing.

it would be nice to see a performance/cost graph for all blocks tested so you can see what you are getting for your $$'s, in this age of collapsing banks etc i actually feel this may be what most end users will look for.

Also I don't see the Fusion doing as well just using convection ;)

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Why not make both and have a high and low end offering. There are blocks that retail for about that (see AC's products) and people do buy them.:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

As i mentioned in my other thread I doubt block design is going to get much better than where it is now, I have a design for a jet block here that pretty much beats everything you see out there, the issue is it would cost a pretty penny to make it and would probably retail for $100, which i feel is just not worth doing.

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You underestimate people's need for having 'the best'. Cathar could have always sold more blocks, he didn't stop due to lack of customers, rather lack of interest... Ever see 'Field of Dreams'? 'If you build it, they will come'.

I would buy a 100$ block if it truely beat the pants off all others and looked as good as the hydroflow :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nate P.

I really like the fact they stepped the base right out of the box.

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Yes I agree!!

Great review Martin!! You da man. :up:

*cough*Hey Petra....... when are ya getting them in stock????*cough*cough*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

You underestimate people's need for having 'the best'. Cathar could have always sold more blocks, he didn't stop due to lack of customers, rather lack of interest... Ever see 'Field of Dreams'? 'If you build it, they will come'.

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:up:

Thanks Tony...

70-100$ aint bad ...i'll get one if you promise its best :)

about watercooling...if you've noticed most retailers are out of stock with the good stuff...hwlabs 480gtx ...weeks ago the fusionv2..bitspower fittings... asian/aus countries are importing hordes of waterblocks...

i can surely smell some greens there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

martins test results seem to be going the wrong way :( I found 75LBs was the optimum pressure, here the block during my tests beat the Fusion and the apogee GT...each testers results are going to be a little different though.

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Exactly, that's why I emphasized that the testing is so specific to a system. Different amounts of pumping/radiator systems will likely result in slightly different preferences/tradeoffs in pressure drop losses. In addition the shape of the IHS itself likely plays a huge role in what sort of mounting pressure is optimal for a processor. Mine is lapped flat which seems to be pretty happy with the single washer under the spring...but that's not to say a stock IHS with something less that flat or a different processor die size wouldn't act differently...it probably will.

After testing 15 blocks in the last couple of months, I've pretty well convinced myself of two things:

Pressure drop and measurments of restriction are fairly repeatable measures although manufacturing variances still create some variation.

Thermal performance on the other hand can really only be approximately measured. Maybe to .5C on any particular setup, but that's only good for that one system, that one pump setup, that one radiator/fan combination, that one thermal paste used and applications methond, AND that one processor.

The best we can do as reviewers is state our testing specifications and hope there are plenty of others testing to help provide some sort of trend that's not based on any one review, but rather a collection of reviews on several setups under a wider range of conditions.:up:

Great job on the block, I'll be passing it along to Skinnee next for his own experiences..:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

I'm doing some tests too but i don't wanna test something that performs less than the fusionv1.

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:rofl:

thats like me saying i dont feel like driving cars slower then a porshe 911 carrera.

And i thought i had a high horse. :up:

FYI,
Being a little confused as to how I could possibly get worse temperatures with more mounting pressure, I decided to inspect the thermal paste spread a little more carefully on this higher pressure mount. It appears to me with this higher pressure mount, more pressure is being exerted at the four corners of the step and there is some bridging at the center. (Indicated by the thinner paste remaining in the corners and sides vs the center).

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1...espreaday2.jpg

In the end, I can only suspect with stepped bases there is probably some sort of optimal mounting pressure. I would suggest trying various amounts of washers and experiment a little..:up:

Martin I'd check the flatness of your IHS... could be that too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

In the end, I can only suspect with stepped bases there is probably some sort of optimal mounting pressure. I would suggest trying various amounts of washers and experiment a little..:up:

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I will definitely add this to my list of things to experiment with once I complete the as-shipped thermal tests. My wife is just going to have to make an appointment if she wants to spend time with me, I've got tests to run. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Martin I'd check the flatness of your IHS... could be that too.

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I lapped the IHS flat, and checked it with my parallels if anything the corners could be rounded a bit convex, but it's definately not concaved.

Here is a mount right after using Naekus ACDI stepped block and my normal 45-50lb mounting pressure, the paste looks pretty thin in the center and I don't see the same issue of the corners getting the pressure.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1...eppasteqn6.jpg
I think you just have to watch it with stepped bases, too much and you can start bending the blocks or socket and all your pressure leaves the center and goes to the corners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

I will definitely add this to my list of things to experiment with once I complete the as-shipped thermal tests. My wife is just going to have to make an appointment if she wants to spend time with me, I've got tests to run. :D

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Perfect, I would maybe try one or two mounts with just the springs no washer and work up from there. It probably depends on the shape of the IHS.:up:

Wait.. adding a washer between the spring loaded screw and the hold down plate increases pressure applied to the CPU?

martin have you ever considered (just another possibility) that you have reshaped the IHS by putting so many high pressure bowed mounts on it your testing? Copper aint the hardest metal dont ya know ;)

I can second that. I had to re-lap my IHS after testing the Apogee GTZ. It was (only very slightly) bent concave after three mounts of the GTZ.

What if the base were stepped and slightly bowed? Too much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

Wait.. adding a washer between the spring loaded screw and the hold down plate increases pressure applied to the CPU?

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yup sure does

hey guys just checked PPCS and there in stock

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=24488

fyi they're in stock at PPCs now, for those of you wanting to pick it up for some personal testing.

EDIT boo evil boo:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kibbler

fyi they're in stock at PPCs now, for those of you wanting to pick it up for some personal testing.

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i win :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

yup sure does

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I should stick to software coding.. mechanics are clearly not my forte.

But I learned something new so yay me! :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bojamijams

I should stick to software coding.. mechanics are clearly not my forte.

But I learned something new so yay me! :up:

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its called preload, i do the same tuning air rifles i restore here. Adding washers to the springs to tune the power outputs.

It took some thinking about it, and drawing myself a little diagram but I finally figured out why.

At first I thought that putting a washer stops the screw from threating in as far and thus reduces pressure. But now I see that it actually forces the spring down further.

Tony, can you comment as to when those pumps you spoke of earlier in the thread might be available? Even just a ball park time frame... end of '08, mid-'09...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iandh

What I really would like to see is some variety in the low end (say less than $70) radiator market in the US. Swiftech pretty much is unbeatable at the moment IMO with the MCR320 at its current price point. That is a real value for your money product right there.

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What about a $26 heater core?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rise

What about a $26 heater core?

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After having barbs soldered on, building a shroud for the fans, and figuring out a way to mount it, it would be easier to pay a little more and get a $50 MCR320.

Axis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by axis

After having barbs soldered on, building a shroud for the fans, and figuring out a way to mount it, it would be easier to pay a little more and get a $50 MCR320.

Axis

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I still wonder the same thing, why it's worth so much trouble. If nothing else, the time itself it takes to obtain and set up the heatercore can probably be used to pay the difference to the MCR, even if you work at McDonald's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by axis

After having barbs soldered on, building a shroud for the fans, and figuring out a way to mount it, it would be easier to pay a little more and get a $50 MCR320.

Axis

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I disagree, I got my BARBED heatercore for $10 shipped.

good Review Martin !

here is mine:

Review: OCZ Hydroflow against <-> Ybris A.C.S. BLACK PEARL Cromo <-> EK Supreme

you guys may have a look :)

What kind of threaded hubs does the OCZ waterblock has?
3/8" NPT or G 1/4"?
I am also confused about MCR320...on some websites I see 3/8" on others 1/4" threaded hubs. Are there 2 versions of it?
I am trying to replace the rdiator of a Kandalf LCS with a Swiftech MCR320 and I need some 1/2" fittings...but angled. I found Koolance , but seems o be g1/4. To be honest I'm not a newbie but I'm preety confused.
And I didn't find anywhere explained terms: barbs, elbows, compression, etc and how to combine these in a water cooling system.
Sorry for my ignorance if you know anything about this stuff maybe you can help.
Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aghory

What kind of threaded hubs does the OCZ waterblock has?
3/8" NPT or G 1/4"?
I am also confused about MCR320...on some websites I see 3/8" on others 1/4" threaded hubs. Are there 2 versions of it?
I am trying to replace the rdiator of a Kandalf LCS with a Swiftech MCR320 and I need some 1/2" fittings...but angled. I found Koolance , but seems o be g1/4. To be honest I'm not a newbie but I'm preety confused.
And I didn't find anywhere explained terms: barbs, elbows, compression, etc and how to combine these in a water cooling system.
Sorry for my ignorance if you know anything about this stuff maybe you can help.
Thanks

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Yes, swiftech changed form 3/8 NPT to G 1/4" about a year ago.

I have a 3/8 MCR220 and a G1/4 MCR320.

There isn't a way until to tell until you have the rad in hand or ask whoever your buying from.

The ones I am buying from a totally idiots. No offense but this is the truth. It is a retail store, not an online one.
I bought a Swiftech Apex Ultra + kit which retails for 329$ without taxes with 104 $, brand new, while the normal Apex Ultra was labeled at 220$. I didn't tried to understand the logic of that, as long as it saved me over 200$. It was the kit with Apogee GT inside.
Now I have the radiator in my hand. Is there a way I can tell what kind of threads it has? It does fit perfectly the OCZ waterblock 1/2 " or 3/8 " barbs, so it has the same threads as OCZ waterblock. Which one would be those, G 1/4" or NPT 3/8"?

the OCZ is G 1/4".

Technically, Swiftech does not use G1/4. They use 1/4" NPSM which is just slightly different than G 1/4" by one thread per inch. On their rads, it doesn't make a difference and you can use G 1/4" barbs just fine, but as I found out this weekend, on the MCW60, you need the Bitspower adapters that go from 1/4"NPSM to G1/4" in order to use G1/4" barbs right since the threads are plastic.