Do Ya Need A Pump....eeeerrr NOPE

Convection.. within a loop its the movement of water by heat alone. Im still designing a new loop for my HTPC but a quick and dirty test has my mouth watering with the fact that i can have my cake and yes..I can eat it to ;)

No pump, no failure worry and complete silence.

At this time im using my ubber loop in the workshop, I will conduct more tests with the crossflow rad I have in mind and bring more info to the table then but for now here are some results.

Q9650 @ stock speeds and voltage. EIST works but the VID does not drop on the P5Q Deluxe so I will have to play around with the Asus EPU six engine...so anything I quote at Idle is 6x333 and load is 9x333 with 1.2375V vid.
Please note it can take a few mins for the convection to get moving, temps initially rise to around 66C load but then once the water is moving they settle to what you see me quote here. Keep this in mind if you decide you want to play also ;)



Im using a Hydroflow block, with around 75LBS of mounting pressure here, coupled with Freeze compound.

Idle is sitting between 21 and 26C:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st..._pump_idle.png

Convection temps:
Flowing in:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st.../tn_Image8.jpg

Flowing out:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st.../tn_Image9.jpg

This was taken after a 4 hr load run and then left to idle for 20 mins, next up load temps:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...01/no_pump.png

This was around 2HRs into a 5 loop Linpack run using max stress with 16GB of ram...ouch!! ;)

Water temps:
Flowing in:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...tn_Image10.jpg

Flowing out:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...tn_Image11.jpg

Now this is not all that bad...firing the pump on drops the temps by a huge amount...but that's not the plan here...the plan is no pump ever in the loop if I can.

All I need now is test the rad with a cpu mounted in case etc...At this time the CPU is horizontal in the board on a bench (not good in itself for convection)

Overall im quite pleased with this, as long as the rad I choose cools the water in the loop pretty efficiently the project should be good to go soon.

Installed the Asus Six engine and started a fresh Linpack run, seems testing half my ram applies more load to the CPU and load temps have gone up 4C..Im gutted !! LOL :)

If this Asus app is to be believed full load is 60W 1.2375V, Idle was 4.6W and 1.1V...which again points to the question why would you need a pump while surfin the net etc running low load? you are just wasting energy!

I may design a loop with a couple of Y's to form a bypass and add a pump thats CPU temp controlled...so i get a pump only when i need it ;)

What size Res are you using? My thinking there is you might be getting some passive cooling in the res due to the volume of water and the water trying to equalize to room temperature.

Res is massive, pipework to the res is long also, it takes quite a while for the heat to move round the loop. For 1C increase in res temp it took around 30 mins on load.

I was just thinking about this and my initial thoughts would be:

1 there is no need for a crossflow rad, you could use a standard rad mounted on edge horizontally.

2 mount a large res on top of the case with the rad right below it...this way cold water flows from the bottom of the res thru the rad before hitting a heat source.

facinating.....
good job tony :up:

Q9650 Idle using Asus Six engine = 4.3W....is this real?? 6x333 at 1.1V

A tripple rad would lose 5W with no fans easy...im wondering now if I could add something like a 4850 and a chipset into the loop and still be convection only?

I guess you'll have to try it and see :D ... this is quite fascinating.. keep us posted please.

This just might convince me to go WC. An absolutely silent rig sure is enticing.

I'm wondering how big of a rad this technique can accomodate. This certainly changes the dynamic of a loop, as the goal would be to get as little differential vertical as possible. Seems perfect for multi-loop systems!

Remember guys this is not for massive overclocking, saying that as I hinted before you could add 2 Y's to form a Bypass and add a small pump (needs to be 6W or less) fed off the CPU fan header, bios would then switch the pump on and off dependent on CPU Tcase temps ot you could go with Tbalancer (which is what I am going to use) with speedfan or similar plugin to use diode temps on the CPU. Pump only pumps when its needed, at idle you use convection and sit in silent bliss as even the fans could be shut off bar say 1 just cooling the water as it enters the rad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

Res is massive, pipework to the res is long also, it takes quite a while for the heat to move round the loop. For 1C increase in res temp it took around 30 mins on load.

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5 gallon? How much are we talking here? I might have to try this scenario out on the liquid test bench...as I am waiting for pumps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

2 mount a large res on top of the case with the rad right below it...this way cold water flows from the bottom of the res thru the rad before hitting a heat source.

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This is what I was thinking, if the Res is large enough you will get cooling due to the water in the res trying to reach equalibrium with the ambient temp of the room, then water flowing through the rad would get that extra little drop before going to a heat source.

Res here is around 12 gallons with around 11 actually installed. March 230V pump and 4 blocks...I usually test 4 boards all at the same time.

im thinking of making a miniloop with a 120.3, no res and a T bar to fill it...maybe 18x2 inches of pipe from the rad to the block to mimic what a case layout would be and see what its like without a res...then maybe add a res (as this would also add head pressure) and see if it improves things enough for it to be deemed a necessity.

You sir... have a fun job.

You would think that but it does get tedious after a while, especially when you know boards have bad bios files...;)

Anyway back to watercooling ...Asus Six engine lowers the FSB and i have no way of bringing it back up...46MHZ loss just so I get Vid change during EIST is not acceptable...DFI boards Always worked with EIST and OCing i may try the new DKX48 next.

You know someone needs to design a case that has a top compartment, large enough for a tripple rad on edge and a res that holds 1 gallon or so of coolant......would be a little top heavy though me thinks ...LOL

This is because viscous liquids defuse rather quickly. When you are heating the water near the back the water not only defuses fairly quickly but the heat is distributed well within the loop.

Look at it this way. If you stand near a heater, you heat up too and you heating up could warm someone next to you. Now think of the people as molecules of water. The heat is transered very well from molecule to molecule.

Wow, that's really amazing! I would never even have considered trying to run a watercooling loop with no pump. Really fascinating stuff.

Interesting concept. What are the chances of the flow stopping unexpectedly?

Can we see the whole set up?

Reminds me of nuclear reactors using natural circulation. Natural circulation can work great, but the loop has to be designed around that. You need to have very little resistance in the tubing, that means no tight bends, no elbows, no multiple blocks. Having large runs of tubing on each side running vertically will help too. The larger the distance between the rad and the cpu block the better. I don't think a huge res is necessary as long as the system works.

The main point is that you have to setup your thermal driving head. The colder you can make the water coming out of the radiator the better. The greater the difference of temperatures (delta T) across each loop the more flow you'll have.

This is something I've been wanting to try for some time now. Heck, I might just now do it.

here's an whole pc case from zalman build totaly on the convection principle (only no watercooled though but heatpipe)
http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/...ad.asp?idx=116
http://prohardver.hu/dl/rev/2005-05/...00_ready_b.jpg
http://www.h-essers.nl/images/products/zalman/533.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dopestuff

here's an whole pc case from zalman build totaly on the convection principle (only no watercooled though but heatpipe)
http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/...ad.asp?idx=116
http://prohardver.hu/dl/rev/2005-05/...00_ready_b.jpg
http://www.h-essers.nl/images/products/zalman/533.jpg

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Yup I have one of these also..;) TNN500A prototype.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eldonko

Interesting concept. What are the chances of the flow stopping unexpectedly?

Can we see the whole set up?

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The loop is to huge and being honest I don't want people seeing huge sections of my workshop.

When i get the small loop together with a rad etc i will run some pics and test results off. As long as I can moderate the voltages and CPU speeds accaurately in relation to load i think it may work quite well. I for 1 always though Q9650's were 100W+...seems Intel has us fooled ;)

I will use a thermochill 120.3, its popular and I have 3 floating around doing nothing at the moment.

Would be nice to see a setup that is more "normal":D. A 12gal reservior is hardly normal nor feasable for the average user. I'm sure you get some cooling from the massive reservior. Do you have a way to check flow speed? I would also assume that the hotter the water gets, the faster it should move, thus increasing cooling through the rad. While you're at it, see if you could add a a single VERY SLOW moving fan to the rad to see how much, if any difference it makes. I'm thinking maybe a YL low at stock speed and dialed down.

Axis

if i understood correctly he is already using fans on his rad only not using a pump but he do want to try running whitout a fan when the pc is at idle (and the fans kicking in at a certain temp.. )

Ok no worries, I was just curious what the res looks like and what you made it from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

The loop is to huge and being honest I don't want people seeing huge sections of my workshop.

When i get the small loop together with a rad etc i will run some pics and test results off. As long as I can moderate the voltages and CPU speeds accaurately in relation to load i think it may work quite well. I for 1 always though Q9650's were 100W+...seems Intel has us fooled ;)

I will use a thermochill 120.3, its popular and I have 3 floating around doing nothing at the moment.

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No fans no pump at the moment, but im adding a rad tomorrow and will test closed loop just like in case. Idle CPU 5W (so asus tells me) so im pretty confident.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eldonko

Ok no worries, I was just curious what the res looks like and what you made it from.

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Central heating header tank...big plastic reservoir 18x12x18high

I've thought about this several times... I knew it would work just not how well.


Once the water in the block gets up to a high temperature differential, it is just dying to move and make way for cooler water, thereby jump-starting the convection flow. Once it is flowing and has inertia then it should take little force to continue movement through the loop, so the reduced heating still provides enough convective force to keep things moving.


I bet that loop design/block design could be optimized to make this work quite well. I think the location of the loop components in relation to the heat source should have an at least semi-signifigant effect.

Tony i tried with pump and no rad, and its horrible if your loop is not large like you have it.

Also when you do add more heat wattage, it fails fast. :T

The key is the large reservoir. But with a large reservoir you could even run it overclocked.

I will try with a rad only first...i have actually run something similar a while back with a TEC pumping around 50W and that worked quite well...the TEC jump atarted convection and load temps were reasonable...the main issues was the block i feel...the HF looks to be a lot better for convection than the old DD block i was using.

I think you need to consider the fact the average PC is not on load full time, hence normal use with load fluctuating should not be a problem with the closed loop not being overwhelmed. Of couse folders need better cooling though so pure convection would probably not be a good idea.

option 1 (Top) has no pump and convection only, im thinking option2 is more for the overclocker or someone who runs the PC under load more than normal. Pump is CPU temperature controlled, only pumping when needed.

mad paint skill I know but you should get my point ;) T line is incase the res is sealed, or you just run that part of the loop to top connection on rad and do away with the res.

Coooooool =]

WOW!! this is VERY interesting here......... I wonder what would happen with a smaller res (like an EK 250 or even a Micro Res...) but with a triple rad....

This is something I might look into......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eldonko

What are the chances of the flow stopping unexpectedly?

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The same as the chances of thermal laws stopping unexpectedly...

This is really neat for stock/low-OC setups. I thought it would only be effective if the loop was set up to have hotter water rise, though.

I'm not sure if this is helpful at all regarding radiators, but I did run one experiment. I took my TFC480 and set in on my radiator testing bench without any fans on in the room and let it rip with 100watts applied.

About 3 hours later, temps were still climbing and this is the plot of my sensors. The reservoir I use is about 1/2 gallon, so I think the key is the large reservoir for the additional heat storage, although I never would have thought you could get convection to move the water properly.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5...ivetestob6.png
So with the 480 rad, I was probably going to level off with about a 20C delta using 100 watts as a heat load. So I suspect a really small heat load could be doable, that or any amount of air that's pushed through the case for something like the PSU would likely improve performance over true passive a fair amount.

I did however have an unintentional pumpless test run while testing the Apogee Drive, I accidentally disconnected my GPU loop pump (reaching back for the backplate) and really disfigured my tubing. The tubing at the GPU outlet was all deformed (Flattened). I logged and recorded that little adventure too, suprisingly though it did seem to almost level out in water temps so I must have been convecting some sort of flow rate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndrewZorn

The same as the chances of thermal laws stopping unexpectedly...

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giggle

Interesting idea for an average computer - no reason it won't work.

I do have a small question about option 2, however.
Is it just me or will the pump loose about half it's flow going around in circles?
Don't you need something to stop the flow from running backward through the other half of the "Y" ...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QuietIce

Interesting idea for an average computer - no reason it won't work.

I do have a small question about option 2, however.
Is it just me or will the pump loose about half it's flow going around in circles?
Don't you need something to stop the flow from running backward through the other half of the "Y" ...?

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It would need a backflow valve, but that would goof with the convection... you would be mostly relying on the water's inertia to carry it through the correct path.

There is no need for a valve...water will flow in the path of least resistance...for it to flow around the sharp bend on the Y's the block would need to be massively restrictive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Tony i tried with pump and no rad, and its horrible if your loop is not large like you have it.

Also when you do add more heat wattage, it fails fast. :T

The key is the large reservoir. But with a large reservoir you could even run it overclocked.

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this is a very interesting thread although it doesnt apply in my case

if i turn my pump off the cpu heats up very fast and fails within seconds..seeing that convection would need some time, it seems rather impossible with such wattages:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Giannis86

this is a very interesting thread although it doesnt apply in my case

if i turn my pump off the cpu heats up very fast and fails within seconds..seeing that convection would need some time, it seems rather impossible with such wattages:confused:

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But your pump is stopping/blocking the flow of water altogether. Also, this isn't for well OC'd systems.

Axis

I just can't seem to understand how the hot water would know which path to take away from the CPU block to initially kick start the convection process.

A nice easy experiment would be to add a couple of drops of dye into the CPU block and fill the rest of the loop with clear water then fire it up - if convection starts you would see the dye start to circulate.

Might give that a go actually.

This is certainly an interesting experiment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coolmiester

I just can't seem to understand how the hot water would know which path to take away from the CPU block to initially kick start the convection process.

A nice easy experiment would be to add a couple of drops of dye into the CPU block and fill the rest of the loop with clear water then fire it up - if convection starts you would see the dye start to circulate.

Might give that a go actually.

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well hot water rises so you would want the cpu inlet comming pretty horizontal and the outlet going pretty much dead straight upwards.. ;)

all based on physics..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dopestuff

well hot water rises so you would want the cpu inlet comming pretty horizontal and the outlet going pretty much dead straight upwards.. ;)

all based on physics..

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True, and the blocks we are using are more of a convection compromise thats for sure.

if you have the board mounted in a case with the rad on the top of the case inverted ATX is looking to be key for performance...longer tubes add capacity so you want the CPU as low down as you can me thinks ;)

Also im now testing with just a rad and no case, I had to tip the board around 35Deg from horizontal to get the water moving...i was watching the temps in bios and just tipping the board dropped 5C+ :)

more soon...this is looking very promising...its actually matching my ubber loop which as 12gallons of coolant..LOL

This time I have about 0.5L of coolant which is a lot less ;)

here is how I have the system now:
Closed Loop, No reservoir, 3x Xilence fans 12V

Idle room temp 20C@ radiator height

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...closedloop.PNG

Just run off the first load test run then let it idle for 15 mins to give a good representation of how it would be in a system and its idling at 23>28C dpenedant on what core you look at ;)

Load was a little higher than with the ubber loop once it settled down...i will run it again a post some further info.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I'm not sure if this is helpful at all regarding radiators, but I did run one experiment. I took my TFC480 and set in on my radiator testing bench without any fans on in the room and let it rip with 100watts applied.

About 3 hours later, temps were still climbing and this is the plot of my sensors.

---

lol martin i didnt even need 100W. :P

I had about 25W the heat load off a DDC-3.2

But Tony your ideas are awesome, love to see followup on your theories. :D

nice tony
now i am wondering what are the temps when fully stressed???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dopestuff

nice tony
now i am wondering what are the temps when fully stressed???

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room ambient 20C load was 55 thru 59C, Linpack 4th loop

Doing an idle test now with just 1 fan and its not moved from 23C >27C depending on which core you look at. Room ambient is 21C now also

It's always cool to see people experimenting in water cooling. I believe what Tony has built is called a Thermosyphon. There was a good article on overclockers.com about this several years ago but I can't find it. The guy built a very tiny loop with nothing but a heater core and a water block and it worked as well as a regular heatsink. Although I don't like their spelling you can read more about it on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon the references section has some good links!

Well 1 fan is coping so well at idle I don't even feel you need it...so idle test will continue with no fans for at least 90mins.

In this age of ever increasing fuel bills this looks to be the way of having your cake and eating it along with having the bread buttered both sides ;), im thinking the loop designed like my option 2 with a small pump controlled by the bios fan header control maybe the way to go. I just wish there was an inexpensive fan/pump controller (sub 20$) that you could control via usb like a Tbalancer and you could add the fans/pump.

More soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RVWinkle

It's always cool to see people experimenting in water cooling. I believe what Tony has built is called a Thermosyphon. There was a good article on overclockers.com about this several years ago but I can't find it. The guy built a very tiny loop with nothing but a heater core and a water block and it worked as well as a regular heatsink. Although I don't like their spelling you can read more about it on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon the references section has some good links!

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Which reminded me that this principle is the same one behind heatpipes... they are liquid-filled tubes which rely on convection only to move the fluid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndrewZorn

Which reminded me that this principle is the same one behind heatpipes... they are liquid-filled tubes which rely on convection only to move the fluid.

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You are correct that they both use convection but that wikipedia article makes sure to note there is a difference. Heat pipes rely on evaporation and condensation.

Some OC tests, quite pleased with these as checking the Intelburntest thread im matching what some are seeing with highend air cooling.

10 Loops intelburntest, 1.4V set in bios although actual vcore is well below this.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...convection.png

Ambient room temp is 20C, air out of rad(top) 34C, bottom 24C, so rad is removing 10C ish as the water flows down each pass.

not bad at all

wow it even handles an overclocked quad core!!
amazin
good work tony!! :up:

no fans?? and if fans how many and at wich rpm??

I love you Tony. :kissbutt::smileysex::bows:


Edit: What you have "discovered" is called thermocycling. Used to great effect in solar thermal heating."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

Convection.. within a loop its the movement of water by heat alone. Im still designing a new loop for my HTPC but a quick and dirty test has my mouth watering with the fact that i can have my cake and yes..I can eat it to ;)

No pump, no failure worry and complete silence.

At this time im using my ubber loop in the workshop, I will conduct more tests with the crossflow rad I have in mind and bring more info to the table then but for now here are some results.



Overall im quite pleased with this, as long as the rad I choose cools the water in the loop pretty efficiently the project should be good to go soon.

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There have been others that have played with convection... seems to work best with the radiation above the loop, in fact, you may have a disaster if it is not. I know Cathar played around a bit with convection for a while.

Xilence fans, 55ish CFM at 12V, just 3 on one side of the rad. The fans are silent...just wind noise from 6" away is all you can hear...go 3 feet and you would not know they are running.

The rad has to go topside or you use a crossflow rad with the top barb on a 30deg angle upwards of the top barb on your block.

I would not push the processor much more than this with a rad inside the house, for more i would drill 2 holes thru the wall and mount the rad outside and let the cool British winter do the cooling for me ;)

I may try a phenom next, see how they do as im thinking 790GX for my HTPC, if similar to this im done with pumps ;) LOL

Very cool Tony. Reading this I think I'm going to experiment with an old s939 system I have in a box here, and putting a Winchester 3500+ in a loop consisting of a TDX block and a Black Ice Pro 2 with a bit shorter tubing and alternative radiator positioning. This old dog might even put out more heat than that q9650 of yours, at least in idle, heh.

the block design is important, i think the hydroflow suits convection real well where some other blocks would not do quite as good a job. Its always nice to play and test though ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RVWinkle

You are correct that they both use convection but that wikipedia article makes sure to note there is a difference. Heat pipes rely on evaporation and condensation.

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Yes. Phase change.... if you will ;)

Tony, I'm going to Manchester to steal your gear and .... and your job. Too much fun for one man to handle on his own. :D:D

i read this thread a few hours, and was thinking about how theoretically you'd want a insulated 'hot' pipe that went directly up several metres to a radiator with a several metre long 'cold' pipe coming back to the CPU block to get the max pressure (and thus flow rate) from your hot/cold liquids
but i just read this paragraph in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiator#Coolant_pumps, seems that might not be the case
umm, yea just posting in case you have similar thoughts :wave:
very interesting thread :yepp:

in a case I would insulate the hot pipe so that you do not allow the heat to increase the case temps...you want the heat transfer in the rad not the case ;)

Im actually going to do this with my brand new V2000 (awesome case why did they drop it) for my new HTPC, I will go with a 3fan tripple crossflow rad mouned off the back of the case and use copper piping internally to within 2" of the block where i will change to plastic flexy tube... I am hoping to hard plumb the rad though if I can. Bomb proof install is what I am after.
If the crossflow has issues I will just add another rad using a standard tripple I have here horizontally mounted on top of the case and alter the pipework to put both the rads in series with the rad on the top being first in the loop.

I may do this anyway and run dual loops, with chipsets and video on the second loop, I have a feeling it would match stock Video card cooling even just convecting.

interesting thread.... its great to see someone experimenting

it seems that the thermosyphon would work best with a greater temperature differential... I dont know much about watercooling tecs, but that would boost the water temp while maintaining lower cpu temps... might have to watch out for tube meltdown tho :D

If you read back I already have tried that but not documented it here. I actually used a 15V tec on 5V fed off a molex line which was pumping around 50W. if I could get one to do 60W at 5V that would do fer the quad at stock speeds on the P45.

ahh ok... i missed that

what coolant temp did you get?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

There is no need for a valve...water will flow in the path of least resistance...for it to flow around the sharp bend on the Y's the block would need to be massively restrictive.

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Ooo-Kaayyy ... :hm:

tony if you have time,

can you possibly try running your experiement though sections of regular copper tubes to see if that would help a little?

Maybe a series of 10cm of copper tubing in sections?

I know it would sound dumb, but what is the point of not using a pump ? it makes less noise than a 3 quite fans.
An MCP-655 set to speed=3 is inaudible and makes almost 0 vibrations.
For me it seems that using a passive rad will give better, am I wrong ?

other than that, I like that Idea Tony, I'm just not sure about it's benefit over passive rad with a quite pump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The-Fox

I know it would sound dumb, but what is the point of not using a pump ? it makes less noise than a 3 quite fans.
An MCP-655 set to speed=3 is inaudible and makes almost 0 vibrations.
For me it seems that using a passive rad will give better, am I wrong ?

other than that, I like that Idea Tony, I'm just not sure about it's benefit over passive rad with a quite pump.

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in convection, your trying to get rid of the extra sources, not addon more.

Adding a pump would eat your battery. The reservoir is like a battery of how your system can hold.

Anyhow, using the principles of warm water rises, and cold water falls, this is his main driving point in this whole experiment.

What i want to see tho is if adding small sections of copper tubing thoughout the loop could somehow compensate for tony's uber large 12 gallon res. :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The-Fox

I know it would sound dumb, but what is the point of not using a pump ? it makes less noise than a 3 quite fans.
An MCP-655 set to speed=3 is inaudible and makes almost 0 vibrations.
For me it seems that using a passive rad will give better, am I wrong ?

other than that, I like that Idea Tony, I'm just not sure about it's benefit over passive rad with a quite pump.

---

There are quite a few advantages. First and foremost, no pump to fail. While low fans are nearly silent, this sytem would allow you to get the slowest fans and turn them down to be completely dead silent, while still blowing more than enough air to dissappate the heat. Would be ideal for a HTPC. Plus, it's cool as hell. :D

Axis

interesting read. I wonder how this kind of loop would perform in hotter (30C+) weather? If I ever try building a loop like this I'd like to be sure it survives Australian summers...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

in convection, your trying to get rid of the extra sources, not addon more.

Adding a pump would eat your battery. The reservoir is like a battery of how your system can hold.

Anyhow, using the principles of warm water rises, and cold water falls, this is his main driving point in this whole experiment.

What i want to see tho is if adding small sections of copper tubing thoughout the loop could somehow compensate for tony's uber large 12 gallon res. :up:

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The rad tests featured 1/2L water and 3ft of tube total...no huge res :)
Copper tube is interesting though, 1/2 would be key me thinks, I may do this on the HTPC and server im about to move to pumpless stytems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by axis

There are quite a few advantages. First and foremost, no pump to fail. While low fans are nearly silent, this sytem would allow you to get the slowest fans and turn them down to be completely dead silent, while still blowing more than enough air to dissappate the heat. Would be ideal for a HTPC. Plus, it's cool as hell. :D

Axis

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best part is at idle you do not need fans, using speedstep you should see 10W or less on a quad at idle...so no pump and no fans, add SSD drives and with the right vdeocard/psu cooling you could have total silence.

If the rad was turned on its side it may create a convection current of air through itself on its own negating the need for fans completely.