Near disaster with an Apogee GTX

I've been using an a Swiftech Apogee GTX for about 9 months now as well as Primochill Ice for coolant.

In the last couple of days I have noticed my cpu overheating, when I tested the overclocks I wasn't breaking 55c and suddenly I am getting forced cpu shutdowns due to temps!

I checked and sure enough I have no coolant flow...*sigh* many people told me I was crazy for running so much from a single pump and maybe they were right.

So I removed the pump after pinching off it's connecting hoses and set it up next to my kitchen sink with a jumped PSU and a 2 gallon bucket full of water. Once primed the pump would move 2 gallons of water in about 25-30 seconds, that sounds about right according to specs for an MCP655-B pump so I put it back in the case and made sure there was no air left in the system . No flow...

Now I'm getting serious here, I ordered another pump as well as full cover gpu blocks for my 4870X2's and more MX-2 ( I will review the gpu blocks later) .

Now I dissasembled the entire system and drained everything and started cleaning and inspecting all my parts. Everything seemed fine until I got to my Swiftech Apogee GTX block, I had been blowing through all blocks to ensure proper flow and when I tried to blow through my cpu block I almost popped an eyeball out due to unexpected resistance...Great I found the problem I thought and set about looking down the barbs with a flashlight and saw it was packed full of blue stuff. Amazing concidence here the blue stuff matches the color of my coolant perfectly! I tried letting straight hot water run through the block and worked my way up to 100psi compressed air to no discernible effect. So I disassembled the block to see if it was even salvageable and it in fact is NOT salvageable. The gunk I could clean out relatively easily now but the corrosion was terrible having eaten a hole almost all the way through the top shell of the block as the plating was disintegrating.

Here are some pics :
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...o/P1010153.jpg
First the top after being cleaned of blue gunk. Look at the lower right and you will see the hole and nearer the center you can see where the plating is flaking off.



Now the bottom or cpu contact side.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...o/P1010151.jpg

In conclusion I'll never be using the Primochill Ice coolant again, as this coolant was changed only 4 months ago I'm thinking the recommended 6 month change interval is a joke. The Apogee GTX I'll be attempting to rma shortly.

Maybe I should start selling Engine Ice in 2oz bottles and call it something spiffy like...Swiftech does with hdrx aka antifreeze lmao, I spoke to Gabe on the phone today while getting the rma setup for my Apogee GTX and he let slip that it's valvoline racing coolant "officialy endorsed by NASCAR". I laughed myself half to death over that one!

I already knew it was just antifreeze in a 2oz bottle ( what a money maker ) but he started telling me how much better it was than any other coolant additive. Gabe in fact stated that it was made in the millions of gallons and was in use for many different cooling applications including race cars....

Well I immediately called BS on that one as I grew up building/working on race cars as a member of a pit crew and for over 20 years now that I can attest to the only additive you are allowed to run in NASCAR is in fact water wetter! Yep you guessed it! The same exact stuff people use in their pc's coolant! I have personally seen this stuff work to fantastic effect in a race car with a 30 degree drop in temps within 5 minutes of pouring it in.

Gabe says BS on that one of course but I nailed him on the Hydrx = antifreeze question and for those of you who have been duped into buying antifreeze in tiny bottles...LOL hit me up I will so send you some antifreeze in a little bottle for HALF the price of Hydrx! I will offer a special DEAL if purchased by the gallon even lmao!! I will even paste a label on it that says "better than snake oil" or "not antifreeze" ROFLMFAO!!!!!

On a serious note I spoke to both Gabe and Michelle at Swiftech today and you definitely want to speak only with Michelle as Gabe will bend your ear with his facts and figures and "we are engineers" crap talk forever it seemed like. Gabe also insisted that I had been doing something wrong with my Apogee GTX since lapping it dropped my temps....Interesting point there as lapping it dropped my cpu temps at load by 15c! The "bowing" concept he is working with would be great if you didn't bow the hell out of your board by the time you got the block tight enough to achieve proper contact.

A positive to this is that Michelle said she would ship a new top for my Apogee GTX today. The downside is that they want me to ship my old top to them. WTF for ? I could send them a pic that would be quite obvious but Gabe apparently wouldn't believe it and insisted that I should go look at what "real systems" are like over at XS....Which is where I would supposedly find that my case is incredible isolated. I just Google'd Apogee GTX corrosion instead and immediately came up with a ton of threads on XS where people had the exact same problem I did!

I will reassemble my Apogee GTX block but will never use it in my main benching rig after a narrow avoidance of disaster, I'll throw it on my Abit IP35 Pro and see if I can run some 5ghz benches with an e8600. I'll also be tearing the block down each and every time I change the coolant.

As a disclaimer I have conducted no scientific test on Switech's Hydrx and I'm sure they probably put a few drops of special sauce in each little bottle so they can claim it as their own.Thermaltake Mozart Tx case
PC Power & Cooling 860 Turbo
Asus P5Q
X3360 @ 4.054ghz
4x1gb Mushkin @954mhz
Sapphire 4870X2cf w/Ek blocks
x-fi fatal1ty Pro
3x74gb raptors RAID0
lcs :
MCP655 pump x2
Dtek Fuzionv2 w/quad nozzle
EK nb block
enzotech slf-1
swiftech micro res
Thermochill 120.2 radiator
Swiftech 120x2 radiator

wow good thing you caught it when you did. lmao

Military plating specifications my ass... All it need is just a pinhole and the plating become totally useless. Good thing Swiftech made a new design without aluminium this time with the GTZ.

Why don't you get the copper top? I'd be skeptic about using alu again :-/

BTW, if you like blue, then I recommend that you get Pentosin G11 which I've been using for about a year, and it's crystal clear, no stains or gunk.

I am considering either Pentosin or antifreeze currently but as for buying the copper top...Forget it! I already bought a junk part that didn't last and I learned my lesson too! Never reward a company that sells you a bad product by buying another part from them to fix it.

The saying goes :screw me once... shame on you... screw me twice ...shame on me. With the attitude I got from Gabe on the phone I'll never buy anything from Swiftech ever again.

What exactly are you testing and will you be posting results ?

I want to test the effectiveness of additives, And see how well they reduce corrosion in Alu/Copper loops. Basically, I want to see if it's feasible to run a super ghetto LC loop on crunchers, and just use tons of additives to offset the corrosion.

A half dead GTX is perfect since it's already primed for corrosion, And would be a real world test. I'd post results, though i sure wouldn't be no scientist. This would mostly be a proof of concept for myself before making an investment.

And i just want to say that while i personally dont think the GTX was a smart move on swiftech's part, I've had many other of their products that work great. MCW60, MCR's, And MCRES just to name a few. GREAT products. I think they've (obviously) strayed away from copper/alu mixes, And thats good. Dont make a blanket decision based on one fault- The recovery says everything.

Man that kinda sucks... however they're a couple of things that really bugged me in your whole post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

The Apogee GTX I'll be attempting to rma shortly.

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Was it actually something wrong with the GTX, because it sounds like you're putting all the blame on the coolant, or maybe the simple fact your coolant didn't have any anti-corrosion to avoid this... Either way you shouldn't really be RMA'ing but heh, ethics differ :shakes: (as we saw in the RMA ethics thread).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

On a serious note I spoke to both Gabe and Michelle at Swiftech today and you definitely want to speak only with Michelle as Gabe will bend your ear with his facts and figures and "we are engineers" crap talk forever it seemed like. Gabe also insisted that I had been doing something wrong with my Apogee GTX since lapping it dropped my temps....Interesting point there as lapping it dropped my cpu temps at load by 15c! The "bowing" concept he is working with would be great if you didn't bow the hell out of your board by the time you got the block tight enough to achieve proper contact.

A positive to this is that Michelle said she would ship a new top for my Apogee GTX today. The downside is that they want me to ship my old top to them. WTF for ? I could send them a pic that would be quite obvious but Gabe apparently wouldn't believe it and insisted that I should go look at what "real systems" are like over at XS....Which is where I would supposedly find that my case is incredible isolated. I just Google'd Apogee GTX corrosion instead and immediately came up with a ton of threads on XS where people had the exact same problem I did!

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More importantly, this bit just made me cringe... I mean, where do I start?

15C temp drop from lapping? Yeah right, did you forget to mention that between unlapped and lapped you also changed from using chewing-gum to MX2 as thermal paste?

When you RMA or ask for a replacement it's standard procedure to ship the old one back, some companies will let you ship back the old one after the receive the new one but most go as far as wanting the old one first, it's the price you have to pay to have stuff fixed for free.



Bottom line, I feel for you, really, what happened to you sucks, but don't act like a 13 year old about it :down:

As a matter of fact I have been using MX-2 for TIM for quite some time now and it's all I ever used on that block too...I also stated that this block wouldn't ever go back in this rig so I could truly care less about the rma. My coolant did in fact have corrosion inhibitors and the only affected part was in fact the Apogee GTX block itself!

Acting like a 13 year old ? W/E dude, it sounds like you need to read up a bit before you tell me I'm full of it as this is a very common problem. Your comment about lapping makes me LOL as I can only assume that you have never done it yourself!

I had a apoge gtx with inovatek anti-corosion liquid during 1 year and have a begining of corosion at the level of the fittings.

I´m so glad that I bougth Copper Top to my GTX :)
Now I´m hoping that Swiftech will make Nehalem Socket 1366 mounting kit for this.

With the price of the copper top, you buy a better waterblock ...

I did get my Copper top really cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Repliquant67

With the price of the copper top, you buy a better waterblock ...

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Indeed I did, a D-tek fuzion v2 with a quad insert.

wow that looks nasty..i've never had such issues, im using distilled water and thats it..

I just put together my water cooling loop. Two things I stayed far away from, mixed metals and any proprietary coolant. I'm just running distilled water with PT Nuke. I don't care about bling, only good cooling results. I guess if I was to useany additive it would probably be Pentosin. I tried Hydrix , but was not that impressed with it, plus it's green.

It seems you're sorting it all out. I was pretty amazed at the accelerated rate of corrosion in that water block.

Yeah but we keep hearing straight from the horse's mouth that GTX blocks are fine they never corrode! How could this be:confused:

Maybe one day Swiftech will pull that piece of junk from their otherwise excellent line. If I were the "man" I would have dropped the GTX from the line the FIRST time this was posted. And you know the Stealth is the same POS.

C'mon Gabe....wake up and smell the galvanic corrosion.

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Originally Posted by Bobly

Man that kinda sucks... however they're a couple of things that really bugged me in your whole post.

Was it actually something wrong with the GTX, because it sounds like you're putting all the blame on the coolant, or maybe the simple fact your coolant didn't have any anti-corrosion to avoid this... Either way you shouldn't really be RMA'ing but heh, ethics differ :shakes: (as we saw in the RMA ethics thread).

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I beg to differ on this. Technically, Gabe is telling everyone it will be fine till the face is red. It's obvious the plating failed so it's grounds for a RMA but be honest with Michelle of Swiftech about that. If they truly care for customer care, they will replace it with another block (hopefully not a GTX, maybe a GT or a GTZ).

It's very hard to deliberately corrode a block since you will need to have lots and lots of patience. Nobody sane will let a corroding block for that long in a loop so this show he's unaware of this until he disassembled.

My GTX..same thing different color. ALU = NFG

Holy :banana::banana::banana::banana:, dude, that's pretty bad.

Nothing wrong with PC ICE my friend...the fact that your other copper components didn't get ruin by that alu top on the GTX means your coolant did its job.
But when its DIRECT CONTACT between the alu and the copper on that block, no amount of coolant corrosion inhibition's gonna stop that GC rating through

Wow, Swiftech pulled a Koolance. I wouldn't even use that block anymore, unless they man up and send you a copper top, which should have been on it in the first place, or at least delrin.

I mustr confess I also had a GTX that went to absolute crap after a long time 24/7 running. It got completely blocked. The GT's are still running fine however,

Aluminum. :shakes:

As God as my witness I will not get Al near my system.

It will be brass and copper for me only. No feerous metals, and no Al...at least I better never find any in there.

I like the copper top. The gtx is a gorgeous block with that top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Navanod

Nothing wrong with PC ICE my friend...the fact that your other copper components didn't get ruin by that alu top on the GTX means your coolant did its job.
But when its DIRECT CONTACT between the alu and the copper on that block, no amount of coolant corrosion inhibition's gonna stop that GC rating through

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My chief complaint with the PC ICe is that it gunked my loop, HOWEVER if it hadn't blocked my Apogee GTX that very large hole you can see in the pic would have gone through in a very short time !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

I already knew it was just antifreeze in a 2oz bottle ( what a money maker ) but he started telling me how much better it was than any other coolant additive. Gabe in fact stated that it was made in the millions of gallons and was in use for many different cooling applications including race cars....

Well I immediately called BS on that one as I grew up building/working on race cars as a member of a pit crew and for over 20 years now that I can attest to the only additive you are allowed to run in NASCAR is in fact water wetter! Yep you guessed it! The same exact stuff people use in their pc's coolant! I have personally seen this stuff work to fantastic effect in a race car with a 30 degree drop in temps within 5 minutes of pouring it in.

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In defense of Gabe, 1) IIRC Swiftech recommends you only use their additive, which is a corrosion inhibitor. 2) They are hardly the only ones sellling repackaged marked up automotive coolant.

Petra's tech does it too, and nobody seems to have a problem with that, including myself.

edit: Oh, and I forgot, water wetter may work at first, but it gradually leaves a nearly uncleanable film inside all of your components. This is bad news for radiators.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobly

15C temp drop from lapping? Yeah right, did you forget to mention that between unlapped and lapped you also changed from using chewing-gum to MX2 as thermal paste?

When you RMA or ask for a replacement it's standard procedure to ship the old one back, some companies will let you ship back the old one after the receive the new one but most go as far as wanting the old one first, it's the price you have to pay to have stuff fixed for free.



Bottom line, I feel for you, really, what happened to you sucks, but don't act like a 13 year old about it :down:

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Just for the record, bowing and stepping in my opinion are nothing more than patch jobs (as is lapping I suppose). If he had a really weak mobo, there is a good chance that bowing didn't help one bit without a backplate.

I could understand if they wanted both the base and top back, so that the block couldn't still be used, but all they are doing is replacing the top. What the hell could they possibly want to inspect on a corroded top that couldn't be seen in a picture? What could the OP possibly want with it other than to throw it in the trash? Why make him waste even more time and money paying shipping for the worthless top?

Is Gabe making windchimes out of corroded GTX tops to hang on the back porch of Swiftech? :ROTF:

I am surprised that Swiftech approved the RMA. I don't really like it either, but Swiftech's warranty is predicated upon the use of Swiftech Hydrx ONLY, and not Pentosin, other forms of Valvoline Zerex, Red Line, or anything else. PC Ice is definitely not Hydrx. I don't agree with the whole warranty policy, but its clearly stated in the product literature. Don't agree with it, then don't buy the block.

I did use the aluminum top for about a month a half, with diluted Hydrx, before I switched to the copper top, with nothing but water. My son has the GTX block now and it serves him very well, again with just water.

IMO, its a case of reading before buying. You clearly bought the block and then discovered its quirks after that.

IanY that is actually an illegal practice in the US, several auto manufacturers got dinged for that one here. You can't mandate that people only run your re-branded product and not honor your warranty when others are used as long as they are used in the prescribed manner and have the essential components.

Well said Iandh, he must have one hell of a wind chime !

hellcamino,

If you look at DangerDen's web site, they also sell a small/tiny bottle of Zerex Proplyene Glycol aka "Zerex Super Racing" for almost $4 a tiny plastic bottle. I think I can source a whole gallon of that stuff for about $10 :)

Valvoline Zerex Super Racing is pink, and I really don't know how Hydrx got to be green, but I think Hydrx is still Proplyene Glycol.

Pentosin is Ethylene Glycol, and is toxic as can be. I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.

Sorry to hear it, I personally wouldn't put anything aluminum in my loops. Even with some very short duration tests with an aluminum Koolance top, I was already starting to see telltale signs of GC.

Plating simply will not stand up to the abrasion of barbs in barb threads, not to mention microscopic cracks and pits that are part of any plating process. Sooner or later an entry point is found and the process begins and works out radially from that entry point. Most of the photos I've seen have originated from the barb threads.

The simple answer is don't buy aluminum products unless you are going to run an all aluminum loop...it's the only thing we can do.

From looking at Swiftech's newest offerings these issues will all go away. The newest blocks are damn sexy IMHO.

I will be getting the NB block for my Maximus II MB, great job Gabe. :up:

[QUOTE=IanY;3288750Pentosin is Ethylene Glycol, and is toxic as can be. I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.[/QUOTE]


Actually if you do some looking at NASCAR track rules you will find quickly that the use of any type of antifreeze will result in a one race suspension. The reason is simple: antifreeze is slicker than snot on a track and uneccesary to boot, the use of it will invariably end with it on the track and far more wrecks. Several additives are currently allowed though.

Antifreeze is the last worry on any drivers mind as a substance that might get splashed on him/her. I can't think of any time I saw engine coolant splashed on a driver...Burning fuel I have seen though!

well it happens to the best of us.

Koolance bit me in the butt, and i thought i knew what i was doing. :rofl:

Wow, that sucks. I use the Fuzion V2 and it almost never gives corrosion types of problems. I personally think you should run your loop with straght distilled, then maybe some PT Nuke, and wait. Then add pentosin or Hydrx of you want. I'm just saying in case its not the coolant you should run pure distilled. If you get gunk or goo you will see it right away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.

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Actually in most forms of racing that I know of only water is used for coolant
so that leaks dont slick up the track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

My chief complaint with the PC ICe is that it gunked my loop, HOWEVER if it hadn't blocked my Apogee GTX that very large hole you can see in the pic would have gone through in a very short time !

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Find me a coolant or a home made distilled water recipe that wouldn't gunk with that GT block with alu top and I'll agree that PC ICE was the cause of the gunk

I don't see people running distilled recipes blaming their recipes when gunks appeared, but everyone's quick to point fingers at commercial coolants at the first sign of a stain

alright, I'm not gonna comment anymore before this turns ugly, but my take home message is

you can blame the heavens and the earth, but you can't blame others when you didn't do your own homework

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.timb...ech_apogee.jpg

Mine, bought a new copper top. Ironically I bought the GTX to replace a rig which was using a BeCooling SlitEdge for a Socket A XP1700 which when I took it off looked like this:

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.timb...r/IMG_3225.jpg

Oh God. That's awful. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

Gabe in fact stated that it was made in the millions of gallons and was in use for many different cooling applications including race cars....

Well I immediately called BS on that one as I grew up building/working on race cars as a member of a pit crew

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You are infering that I intentionally mislead you, and this is pure slander. The information I provided you with is based on the information we ourselves received from the company's distributors and supported by the manufacturer's claims here:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/Ze...%20Coolant.pdf

In an attempt to verify your information nonetheless, and based on your recommendation to go check the Nascar rule book, I found out that this document is quite difficult to obtain, as described in the following article: http://www.speedwaymedia.com/Article...08Gearhart.asp

What you are NOT saying here, is that on the day you called Michelle for your RMA, I validated my representations by directing you to the above Valvoline Press Release, which you quickly dismissed as lies from this reputable manufacturer. So by presenting your story without mentionning all the facts, you are demonstrating a clear intent to cause us prejudice despite the fact that we honored our warranty in good faith.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

Gabe also insisted that I had been doing something wrong with my Apogee GTX since lapping it dropped my temps....Interesting point there as lapping it dropped my cpu temps at load by 15c!

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Such claim demonstrates only one thing: a poor methodology in collecting temperature measurements. There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch

Zerex Racing Super Coolant

Corrosion Tests – 10% v/v
ASTM D1384 – all alloys < 0.2 mg/cm2 loss @ steel, brass, cast iron rate of 0.2mg per day
ASTM D4340 – aluminum alloy < 1 mg/cm2/wk @ a rate of 1mg of mass per week

looks if alu melts less then other alloys when soaked in 10% acid

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Correct. the stuff was designed to protect aluminum engines. It does 30% better on aluminum alloys than with other metals.

To answer another questions (Zerex is red, Hydrx is green), we use the G93 version; same formulation but it's available in 5 gallon pails as opposed to retail bottles.

gabe
three weeks I used GTX, MCP655, MCW30, MCW60R, MCR220 and distilled water without сoolant. Lifting the top from GTX I saw the corrosion on the top as described above. Cannot say anything wrong, Swiftech like me, but my GTX now need to throw, it can't be used in the system. Aluminum top on the GTX - it was a very bad idea
I think the fault of steel aluminum channels in the radiator :shrug:

Same boat. Should not have to use Hydrx to avoid galvanic corrosion caused by faulty plating. If the plating lived up to the advertising it wouldn't fail.

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Originally Posted by HaloJones

Same boat. Should not have to use Hydrx to avoid galvanic corrosion caused by faulty plating. If the plating lived up to the advertising it wouldn't fail.

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It doesn't matter what your opinion is. Should, would, could. Its in the product literature. Either follow the instructions or don't buy.

And if you don't follow the instructions, then you bear the risk yourself.

I'm not arguing for Swiftech. I myself choose not to follow the instructions after changing out the tops, but I used diluted Hydrx when the aluminum top was on and it showed nothing, granted it was for a short time. If I were to get corrosion, I would say that its my own doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Factotum

gabe
three weeks I used GTX, MCP655, MCW30, MCW60R, MCR220 and distilled water without сoolant. Lifting the top from GTX I saw the corrosion on the top as described above. Cannot say anything wrong, Swiftech like me, but my GTX now need to throw, it can't be used in the system. Aluminum top on the GTX - it was a very bad idea
I think the fault of steel aluminum channels in the radiator :shrug:

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Why wouldnt you use an inhibitor package??? Thats just asking for trouble.

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Originally Posted by jarman

Why wouldnt you use an inhibitor package??? Thats just asking for trouble.

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aluminum channels in the MCR220 - learned about it when done a hole in the rad too long screw. :D
I was sure that the radiator is fully copper :shrug:

should still use 5% antifreeze though :) if u do that you will almost never need to replace the coolant.

It's much easier - in the future I do not want to use aluminum in any form in system.

Simplist solution, and by far the least agruement drawing:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0867.jpg

Copper Top and end it.

I have the New Swiftech GTZ and also the GTX with the copper top, i love the way the copper top looks.
Also on the new Swiftech GTZ, the black and silver is a sweet combo.
I think it will make some good blocks for the revived duality~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Factotum

aluminum channels in the MCR220 - learned about it when done a hole in the rad too long screw. :D
I was sure that the radiator is fully copper :shrug:

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wrong... tubes are brass, but solder plating color may give that illusion.

Where is the best place to get the copper GTX replacement top?

Axis

Guys, if you got a REAL coolant, not that crap stuff they mix up for anyone who's dumb enough to buy it at 10$ a bottle (while cost is somewhere around 1$, most of it for the bottle anyway), you don't have problems.

I currently run 3 Apogee GTX blocks in different comps, used to be 4. They've been running for around a year now, last time I checked (few weeks ago) there were no traces of any corrosion.
Hell, I sell lots of passive WC rigs that use aluminum rads (copper is useless without airflow, for passive rads AL is the only choice) and no problems whatsoever.

Just go to your nearest car supplier, buy 1,5l of BASF G48 at 15$ and mix it 1:10 with destilled water. You can run anything you want in that loop, no way in hell anything's gonna corrode.
I also like the color, it's a nice turquoise blue when mixed :up:

Also you get around 15l of coolant for maybe 20$.

Yeah, the mcr220 has no aluminum in it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

wrong... tubes are brass, but solder plating color may give that illusion.

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hmmmm.
I think the topic can be closed, copper top solve all problems for GTX. I trust the quality of Swiftech. It is a pity Fusion I bought before GTZ :shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcool

Just go to your nearest car supplier, buy 1,5l of BASF G48 at 15$ and mix it 1:10 with destilled water. You can run anything you want in that loop, no way in hell anything's gonna corrode.
I also like the color, it's a nice turquoise blue when mixed :up:

Also you get around 15l of coolant for maybe 20$.

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jcool,

BASF G48. Isn't that the same as the high end "Mobil Antifreeze Extra" that comes standard in the Porsche 911 and BMW M5? I think I have a gallon of that stuff in the garage :) although I think mine is red in colour. If I remember correctly, it has an agent called "Glysantin" (whetever that means) or something like that lol :)

{oops.. just checked and mine's G30, also made by BASF, but may be a different product...}

BASF G48 is hardcore stuff. I can't think of anything that will corrode in it offhand.

CM fluid is based on it, and my experiences with that are amazing.

I'm buying a gallon for one of the loops in Mithril. Any US side trade names?

Is the 30 any good Ian? I need other colors...

Google tells me it's G11 pentosin. Funny, that. I'd mix it stronger than we're used to for that app, but that stuff is pretty awesome. I just used to run it in one of my go fast cars I had before I got married.

Never used G-30 inside a computer (kind of expensive) lol Well the G-30 is superb for automotive needs in a certain vehicle brand, if that is what you are asking :)

I also have yellow G-05 as well, again excellent when used in a certain automotive brand.

As for G-48, its not the regular G-11 (that Petra sells) that makes into regular BMWs. G-48 is used in ultra high end BMWs,and if its good enough for the M5 and the new V8 M3, then I guess its good stuff lol

The Germans sure have a bunch of confusing numbers lol

G48 made it into my go-fast buggy when I was younger. I remember coolant changes being as clean as the day it went in. Till I blew the motor, but we all know what happens then.

Wish I still had some. I got a project though, and it'll be in it. Just so I can watch XS squirm, mostly.

You are right guys, it is used for high end cars.
The key ingredient is glysantine, G30 works perfectly fine as well (just that it's red, I prefer the bluish color of G48 ;) )
Glysantine isn't toxic if you don't swallow it, unlike pentosine. DON'T use anything containing pentosine, it's friggin dangerous guys.

So yeah IanY, you can use that G30 all right. As long as you like red coolant :D

NaeKuh
Like your RAM cooling :D

my Swiftech 220:

Factotum, what you're looking at there is likely solder coating the tube... that is how they bond the copper louvered fins, after all.

I have several damaged and punctured MCR-QP radiators here and they're definitely brass-tubed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Petra

Factotum, what you're looking at there is likely solder coating the tube... that is how they bond the copper louvered fins, after all.
I have several damaged and punctured MCR-QP radiators here and they're definitely brass-tubed.

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good, thx for response to my concern

Yeah, I wouldn't have known until I saw a "How it's made on radiators".

The tubes are all coated in solder before the fins are added in between. Then the whole thing is heated and that's what solders the fins to the tubes.

I've managed to poke holes in one of my MCR320's a while back and confirm brass tubing as well.