New AMD Black Editions: 9950 Goes 125W , new Dual and Tri core Black Editions!!!

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08-26-2008, 02:09 PM
informal

New AMD Black Editions: 9950 Goes 125W , new Dual and Tri core Black Editions!!!

http://www.amdzone.com/index.php/new...9950-goes-125w

Quote:

New Black Editions: 9950 Goes 125W PDF Print E-mail
Written by Chris Tom
Monday, 25 August 2008 20:35
AMD has announced three new black editions. They include a new Phenom X4 9950 that is 125W instead of 140W. They also will include new triple and dual core black editions.

* AMD Phenom™ X4 9950 Black Edition processors will transition to 125W (same TDP as 9850 Black Edition). This is our highest performance quad core and when paired with the AMD 790GX Chipset, has been getting rave reviews for its over-clocking capabilities!
* AMD will introduce the AMD Phenom X3 8750 Black Edition processor – the first ever unlocked triple core processor!
* AMD will also introduce the new AMD Athlon™ X2 6500 Black Edition (product details & positioning available on September 1, with price announcement). The highest performance dual core we have ever offered – at a great price and it is also unlocked!

Dually BE is K10 based.Triple core BE is obviously K10 also.
Great news,and all this just before Deneb strikes! We know AMD will use immersion and DFM,which will improve the yield and lower the cost of production.Intel uses DFM as of C2D design(maybe even before that,someone correct me if i'm wrong). DFM will improve the yield on the 45nm node and with CTI and other process improvements which will show up with further 45nm Revisions they are on the road of a much better process node which will let them make a 12 core MCM(revD,so called Hydra cores -6 core native part is one of them).
08-26-2008, 02:14 PM
billdavis

Denabs strikes

what is denab going to strike the new texas instrments calculators
08-26-2008, 02:16 PM
perkam

The X2 6500 is not a 3.3Ghz K8, it's a 2.1Ghz Phenom-based dual core X_X

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=199867

The 8750 Black Edition...i might consider that if Deneb doesn't have Tri-core variations at launch. These chips clock to 3.0/3.2 with ease without the unlocked multi.

Perkam
08-26-2008, 02:24 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

The X2 6500 is not a 3.3Ghz K8, it's a 2.1Ghz Phenom-based dual core X_X

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=199867

The 8750 Black Edition...i might consider that if Deneb doesn't have Tri-core variations at launch. These chips clock to 3.0/3.2 with ease without the unlocked multi.

Perkam

Hmm who said X2 6500 is K8 based??:confused::confused:
I sure didn't...

edit: on another though it really could be K8 based... We don't know right now.
08-26-2008, 02:27 PM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

The X2 6500 is not a 3.3Ghz K8, it's a 2.1Ghz Phenom-based dual core X_X

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=199867

The 8750 Black Edition...i might consider that if Deneb doesn't have Tri-core variations at launch. These chips clock to 3.0/3.2 with ease without the unlocked multi.

Perkam

I dunno Perkam, maybe it's for justfying the pricing?

Since it's unlocked you can get to 3.0 virtually assured. I'm curious about how the L3 shakes things up.
08-26-2008, 02:32 PM
informal

Ok,after reading through and thinking about the product names(Athlon X2 6500 and Phenom X2 GE) I'm pretty sure new Athlon BE chip is actually a Brisbane 3.3GHz while Phenom X2 GE-6500 is an "Energy efficient" chip with 45W.The Phenom will be priced alongside the present 2.5Ghz 4850 EE or a bit higher(both are 45W ,but one is K10 based so faster). This means no BE K10 dually,at least not for now.Maybe with Deneb X2 version we'll see the much awaited BE dual core K10.
08-26-2008, 02:34 PM
Epsilon84

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone get so excited over such an underwhelming release. Then I realised who was posting, and it all made sense. ;)

If anyone has been following reviews closely, they'll realise the 9950BE has been getting lower power consumption than the 9850BE. So now AMD finally comes to their senses and rates the TDP where it should be, whoopy doo, sorry if I ain't jumping around screaming like a girl around Brad Pitt. :p:

The X2 6500 is also a very misleading name, I was expecting a 3.3GHz X2 until I saw perkam's post. EDIT - I see there is a bit of confusion on this...

The X3 8750BE is the most 'exciting' release of the lot, but if they keep the current 8750 price ($175) it ain't gonna sell, not when you can get a Phenom 9600 for $150 and a Q6600 for $190.

I guess I'll set the alarm clock to when Deneb is released... yawn.
08-26-2008, 02:34 PM
eXa

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

The X2 6500 is not a 3.3Ghz K8, it's a 2.1Ghz Phenom-based dual core X_X

And will get its ass kicked by the 6400BE... :rolleyes:
08-26-2008, 02:35 PM
PetNorth

Athlon X2 6500 BE

It sounds K8 (Brisbane) to me ;)

probably ~3.3ghz
08-26-2008, 02:36 PM
informal

@Epsilon
Yeah nothing new from you.Didn't expect it neither.
Oh and btw, new Athlon X2 is K8 G2 based(that's what i think after i read the news again).

@PetNorth
You're correct :).
08-26-2008, 02:37 PM
AliG

My bet is that it's a agena cpu with two cores disabled, as kuma was a cancled and they no reason to release a 2.3ghz k8 when they've already got a pretty good ee k8 lineup
08-26-2008, 02:43 PM
KeZzZu

It says ATHLON X2 not phenom x2, so hello 3.3ghz brisbane... intresting, can't decide what to buy lol.
08-26-2008, 02:53 PM
Epsilon84

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

@Epsilon
Yeah nothing new from you.Didn't expect it neither.
Oh and btw, new Athlon X2 is K8 G2 based.

I'm sorry, I guess your enthusiasm caught me off guard. ;) I shall comment no more except on the technical aspects of this release.

I was responding to perkams post in regards to the X2 6500. However, even if it is indeed a Brisbane @ 3.3GHz, its still misleading since a Windsor X2 6400+ will beat it in the majority of benchmarks. It takes a ~250MHz advantage for Brisbane to draw level with Windsor due to the smaller and slower L2 cache, this is how a Brisbane @ 3.3GHz would compare to a stock X2 6000+:

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/...comparison.png

If we are looking at overall performance a '6100+' rating would probably be the most accurate, but hey, its marketing at the end of the day, it looks like AMD has learnt a thing or two from nVidia. :ROTF:
08-26-2008, 03:06 PM
Boschwanza

Yeah you made your point .. AMD is crap. So can we go on please?

For those who are interested Kuma is listed in the Price Charts for Germany ;) (just saw already posted in another thread, so nervermind)

http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/file.php?n=2954&w=o
08-26-2008, 03:24 PM
villa1n

the low power dual cores... 45w tdp... are they b3's or b2... although cooling them might be a bit imbalanced with 2 cores disabled, lol, have to line up your thermal paste just right ;) (for oc'ing of course)
08-26-2008, 03:28 PM
Epsilon84

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa1n

the low power dual cores... 45w tdp... are they b3's or b2... although cooling them might be a bit imbalanced with 2 cores disabled, lol, have to line up your thermal paste just right ;) (for oc'ing of course)

Isn't Kuma using a seperate mask? Seems like an awful waste disabling 2 cores... unless they weren't functional cores of course.
08-26-2008, 03:40 PM
Miss Banana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon84

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone get so excited over such an underwhelming release. Then I realised who was posting, and it all made sense. ;) blabla blablabla

Dude really, can you just not post in AMD threads anymore, before you derail yet another thread? All you ever do is flamebait people and trashtalk AMD, it is really getting old.
Based on the input you have given the last few weeks in several AMD related threads, I am sad to tell you that at this point, XS would be a better forum without you.

On topic, this release rocks, but I don't understand something.
Will there be a dual core K10 or not? The original topic starting posts talks about an athlon x2 but after that some people talk about a phenom x2.
Clarification plis?

If that X3 BE has a good price, I may be tempted to get that one, allthough I did promise myself at some point to wait for Deneb.
My brisbane 5000+ BE is getting old in my 790X MB though...
08-26-2008, 03:54 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Banana

On topic, this release rocks, but I don't understand something.
Will there be a dual core K10 or not? The original topic starting posts talks about an athlon x2 but after that some people talk about a phenom x2.
Clarification plis?

If that X3 BE has a good price, I may be tempted to get that one, allthough I did promise myself at some point to wait for Deneb.
My brisbane 5000+ BE is getting old in my 790X MB though...

Yep there will be Dual Core K10,but only at lower clocks(1.9-2.3Ghz) and rated at energy efficient 45W.Max clocked model will be GE-6600 @ 2.3Ghz with 1.6Ghz NB clock.The low NB multi should provide at least some headroom with raising the HTT .I would expect 3Ghz from the 2.3Ghz 45W Dual Core K10.

But this leads us to BE triple core.With unlocked multi,this B3 chip will certainly be much better choice than that lower end DC K10.Couple this thing with SB750 and you can go probably over 3.2Ghz and still have 3 cores compared to 2 with DC K10.
Price is the only unknown at the moment(i expect it should be the same as regular 8750).
08-26-2008, 04:24 PM
mAJORD

in regards to the BE 6500, the numbering doesn't make sense at all. It may be a mistake and is supposed to read Phenom X2. eg "Phenom X2 BE-6500. After all it dpesn't say 6500+ , just 6500.

3.3Ghz 65nm K8 = 6400+.
3.4Ghz 65nm K8 = 6600+

3.3Ghz 90nm 1Mbx2 K8 = 6600+

No combination makes sense.
08-26-2008, 05:14 PM
perkam

http://resources.vr-zone.com//newspi.../09/Phenom.gif

Perkam
08-26-2008, 08:09 PM
Mechromancer

Hmmm, I guess I'll buy a 125w 9950 ASAP to pair with the ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe I'll get. This is truly awesome.
08-26-2008, 09:43 PM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon84

I'm sorry, I guess your enthusiasm caught me off guard. ;) I shall comment no more except on the technical aspects of this release.

I was responding to perkams post in regards to the X2 6500. However, even if it is indeed a Brisbane @ 3.3GHz, its still misleading since a Windsor X2 6400+ will beat it in the majority of benchmarks. It takes a ~250MHz advantage for Brisbane to draw level with Windsor due to the smaller and slower L2 cache, this is how a Brisbane @ 3.3GHz would compare to a stock X2 6000+:

If we are looking at overall performance a '6100+' rating would probably be the most accurate, but hey, its marketing at the end of the day, it looks like AMD has learnt a thing or two from nVidia. :ROTF:

if you want to keep it technical you could start with this: Brisbane G2 cache is no longer slower then f3 windsor cache, so its only the smaller cache size.
08-26-2008, 10:25 PM
Epsilon84

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

if you want to keep it technical you could start with this: Brisbane G2 cache is no longer slower then f3 windsor cache, so its only the smaller cache size.

Fair point, its still slower per clock, though to a slightly lesser degree. I think mAJORD may be on to something, its probably not a '6500+' rating at all since it doesn't make sense, someone probably got the Brisbane and Phenom X2s mixed up.
08-26-2008, 10:35 PM
gallag

Epsilon84, How dare you have an opinion, Just who do you think you are.

Seriously, Can people stop derailing a thread every time someone has a differing opinion. Its like a select few people are trying to bully people into being quite if there opinion does not match there's.
08-26-2008, 11:18 PM
saveus222

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdavis

Denabs strikes

what is denab going to strike the new texas instrments calculators

its deneb firstly not denab.. and stop threadcrapping....

X2 6500 + hmmmm... was just abt to pick up a 6400+ BE... Hmmm..
08-27-2008, 12:07 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon84

Fair point, its still slower per clock, though to a slightly lesser degree. I think mAJORD may be on to something, its probably not a '6500+' rating at all since it doesn't make sense, someone probably got the Brisbane and Phenom X2s mixed up.

indeed i think the same, probably mixing with a new PR rating. but good to know there will be a Black edition for triple core, with reduced tdp and new 750 sb might be an interesting buy against dualcore.

if 9950be goes to 125W we will see the 9850 go 95W real soon also

Quote:

Originally Posted by savantu

Move along , nothing to see here except the regulars you-know-who wetting their pants for a 1MHz more or 15w less ( 140->125w) from their beloved and rotten green vegetable.

it is news like any other news... you on the other hand, looking at your posts would like to join Shintai in his new quest to read-only......
08-27-2008, 12:41 AM
gallag

Would be funny if AMD launched a new stepping k8 3.3ghz stock and oced to 4-4.2ghz on air, Everyone ditching there k10s and core2q-d for old school k8s lol
08-27-2008, 12:53 AM
Omastar

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

Would be funny if AMD launched a new stepping k8 3.3ghz stock and oced to 4-4.2ghz on air, Everyone ditching there k10s and core2q-d for old school k8s lol

Nah, they'd still stick with their Wolfdales.
08-27-2008, 01:24 AM
insurgent

Same ones trying to derail an AMD thread, yeah, nobody saw that coming. You don't care about the news, read the others. Seriously, there are threads here about beta drivers and movies that suck so this is not out of place, how hard is it to click other links? It's all about brand bashing now is what it is.
08-27-2008, 02:02 AM
saveus222

Quote:

Originally Posted by savantu

Move along , nothing to see here except the regulars you-know-who wetting their pants for a 1MHz more or 15w less ( 140->125w) from their beloved and rotten green vegetable.

ur asking others to move along but ur not moving along yourself ? lol.... why bother posting.. ??:rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

Would be funny if AMD launched a new stepping k8 3.3ghz stock and oced to 4-4.2ghz on air, Everyone ditching there k10s and core2q-d for old school k8s lol

oh id give up anything for those K8 days,... :D yes it wud be funny.. and not really anything intel or amd would want.. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omastar

Nah, they'd still stick with their Wolfdales.

nah theyd just go for the nano instead.. :rofl:
08-27-2008, 02:31 AM
MomijiTMO

Ahh another AMD bash going on.

The power saving [and heat output] of the 9950 is a good improvement. :)
08-27-2008, 03:17 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

@PetNorth
You're correct :).

No he isn't! Perkam is also wrong when it comes to the frequency of this new X2 Black!

Windsor 6400BE is no longer in production, and regardless of it this new CPU O'ced on SB750 mainboards will be faster then it...
08-27-2008, 04:30 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

No he isn't! Perkam is also wrong when it comes to the frequency of this new X2 Black!

Windsor 6400BE is no longer in production, and regardless of it this new CPU O'ced on SB750 mainboards will be faster then it...

I gave a link in the first post in this thread. It shows an X2 6500 LISTED at a European retailer at 2.1Ghz.

Do you have anything to disprove this? Because I might be wrong, but I doubt AMD is bringing out Athlon X2 6500 AND Phenom X2 6500. They are one and the same, and clocked at 2.1 Ghz.

Perkam
08-27-2008, 04:46 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

I gave a link in the first post in this thread. It shows an X2 6500 LISTED at a European retailer at 2.1Ghz.

Do you have anything to disprove this? Because I might be wrong, but I doubt AMD is bringing out Athlon X2 6500 AND Phenom X2 6500. They are one and the same, and clocked at 2.1 Ghz.

Perkam

yes I do have, but can't post it... it would be ridicules to do screenshot+cut/paste... anyhow CPU is branded "Athlon X2 6500+ Black Edition" naturally it's unlocked and not rated as EE which is logic 'cos it's intended for O'cing way beyond it's default clock of 2.3GHz ;)
08-27-2008, 05:22 AM
Miss Banana

Quote:

Originally Posted by savantu

Move along , nothing to see here except the regulars you-know-who wetting their pants for a 1MHz more or 15w less ( 140->125w) from their beloved and rotten green vegetable.

And you should also get a week ban.
It's been more than clear that you don't share the enthusiasm for AMD that some others have, but do you really have to provoke people like this?
08-27-2008, 05:54 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Banana

And you should also get a week ban.
It's been more than clear that you don't share the enthusiasm for AMD that some others have, but do you really have to provoke people like this?

and you to for suggesting something like that, your no mod nor an admin. If you dont like it report it, but stop suggesting who needs to be banned and who not. :shakes:
08-27-2008, 05:58 AM
Miss Banana

It's just an opinion.
Lately several people have been receiving punishment for making fanboyish remarks that provoke, I would never dare to tell mods what to do.

On topic, I really wonder how well the X2 phenoms could be overclocked. 50% less heat must mean loads of OCing potential?
08-27-2008, 06:00 AM
Macadamia

GE-6500 is NOT X2 BE 6500+ by the way.

The first is a 2.1 Ghz Kuma Duallie, the second one is a 3+G Brisbane.
08-27-2008, 06:07 AM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

Epsilon84, How dare you have an opinion, Just who do you think you are.

Seriously, Can people stop derailing a thread every time someone has a differing opinion. Its like a select few people are trying to bully people into being quite if there opinion does not match there's.

Differing opinion and taking a dump on a post are two diffrent things. I don't crap in Intel threads, why do you crap in AMD threads? Honestly now, why? :confused:

And you know what, a person that does nothing but post attacks and flamebait proably should be quite.
08-27-2008, 06:20 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

yes I do have, but can't post it... it would be ridicules to do screenshot+cut/paste... anyhow CPU is branded "Athlon X2 6500+ Black Edition" naturally it's unlocked and not rated as EE which is logic 'cos it's intended for O'cing way beyond it's default clock of 2.3GHz ;)

Are you sure about this?I would like it to be K10 based but i think it's K8 X2.But hey,I wish I'm wrong :D
08-27-2008, 06:27 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Are you sure about this?I would like it to be K10 based but i think it's K8 X2.But hey,I wish I'm wrong :D

you know I'm sure;)
08-27-2008, 07:20 AM
w0mbat

@Nedjo: So u say that the Athlon X2 6500+ BE is a 2.3GHz K10 Dualcore?
08-27-2008, 09:34 AM
FlanK3r

I mean, we have here 2 real new CPUs
1)X2 6500+ BE TDP 95W Brisbane
2)X2 6600/6500/6400 GE 45W TDP Kuma
08-27-2008, 09:58 AM
w0mbat

@FlanK3r: Thats close ;-)
08-27-2008, 10:40 AM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

I don't crap in Intel threads

Sorry, you would seem to have me confused with someone that would give a fack if you did crap in an Intel thread. I don't own Intel and fell nothing for them, They are just a company after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

why do you crap in AMD threads? Honestly now, why? :confused:

Where do I crap in AMD threads?
08-27-2008, 10:42 AM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Banana

It's just an opinion.

Thats the point, It is all just someone's opinion. Why do you feel you have the right to voice yours then put someone else down for doing the same?

One more thing, If people are so interested in keeping a thread clean, Why do they all need to post slating someone's opinion? What I mean is say someone says something true but negative about AMD, Why do ten people need to quote him saying crap like "stop thread crapping"? Surely the ten people are thread crapping more?
08-27-2008, 11:12 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallag

One more thing, If people are so interested in keeping a thread clean, Why do they all need to post slating someone's opinion? What I mean is say someone says something true but negative about AMD, Why do ten people need to quote him saying crap like "stop thread crapping"? Surely the ten people are thread crapping more?

It's not that surprising for that to happen.

If I went to a popular Intel thread in the Intel section and typed "Nehalem Will Crap Arse" I won't get 10, I'll get 200 posts telling me I'm crapping the thread. I would be wrong, but I would nonetheless be voicing my opinion, which I'm allowed to do.

People that believe that AMD's current and future offerings are/can be competitive will be offended by your posts. Plain and simple.

Perkam
08-27-2008, 12:03 PM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

It's not that surprising for that to happen.

If I went to a popular Intel thread in the Intel section and typed "Nehalem Will Crap Arse" I won't get 10, I'll get 200 posts telling me I'm crapping the thread. I would be wrong, but I would nonetheless be voicing my opinion, which I'm allowed to do.

People that believe that AMD's current and future offerings are/can be competitive will be offended by your posts. Plain and simple.

Perkam

This is not a AMD/Intel thing, Just a observation
What I mean is, If you are reading a thread and see a post you don't like but read on and see that 9 people have already called the author on it, why would you fell the need to be number 10. Why say something that has already been said?
08-27-2008, 01:14 PM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

Sorry, you would seem to have me confused with someone that would give a fack if you did crap in an Intel thread. I don't own Intel and fell nothing for them, They are just a company after all.
Where do I crap in AMD threads?

My question was for thread crappers. If you don't feel that includes you, fine. I would ask you why you think it is okay for people to constantly post flamebait though, if they were only stating opinions like you said earlier no one would have an issue.

There are posters here who cannot allow AMD news to happen without making some sort of negative comment, and unless I am missing an ignore feature the only way to not see thier garbage is to ask them to stop.
08-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Sly Fox

Ultimately, my rule of thumb for what is "thread crapping" is that if you're using blanket statements and not backing them up, you're probably thread crapping.

For example. "I think Nahelem is bad because it is too expensive for my budget." vs "Intel is garbage."

Obviously one of those is going to incite flames far more than the other.

On topic...

The new 9950 sounds like a good chip to me, maybe not in comparison to Intel's current lineup (when predicted overclockability is taken into account), but certainly decent. As long as the price is right, I think it will at least be appreciated by AMD fans.
08-27-2008, 02:13 PM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlanK3r

I mean, we have here 2 real new CPUs
1)X2 6500+ BE TDP 95W Brisbane
2)X2 6600/6500/6400 GE 45W TDP Kuma

first of all there's no such things as "BE" "GE" suffix/prefix crap... there's just one and only brand here - Black Edition and as usual just one model per core, and by core I mean Brisbane (before Windsor), Toliman, Agena... and of course Kuma ;) second... well it's all wrong what you've wrote ;)
08-27-2008, 08:08 PM
ragnarok95

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeZzZu

It says ATHLON X2 not phenom x2, so hello 3.3ghz brisbane... intresting, can't decide what to buy lol.

All along, AMD been saying that for dual core, the name stays at Athlon and NOT phenom.
08-29-2008, 04:19 AM
Mechromancer

Do we know the release date on the 125w 9950BE?
08-29-2008, 05:18 AM
savantu

According to Inq , X2 6500+ is a 2.3GHz 2MB L3 K10.The TDP is huge , 95w.

Any bets against 6400+?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...athlon-branded
08-29-2008, 05:45 AM
mAJORD

doesn't make much sense at all..

we have 45w 2.3Ghz Kuma rumours in one thread, then 95watt rumors in this one..

Add to that, we have 45watt 2.6Ghz (5000+), to 89watt 3.1Ghz (6000+) K8 available now.. Given a 2.3Ghz K10 is going to equal (on average) a 65watt 5600+, I don't quite see the point unless the TDP was much lower..

They HAVE to be disabled Agena's.. there's no reason for AMD to release physically larger than brisbane,native, kuma cores at clocks that make them slower whilst at the same time hotter.. Only @ 45watt would I belive it since they can charge the "EE" premium
08-29-2008, 07:53 AM
Nedjo

Energy Efficient CPU's arrive from wafers done with different "recipe", this why those CPU's are more expensive... Kumas are arriving from standard wafers, and this 95W TDP is nominal wattage and in reality those CPU's on default will draw much less power.

But they're intend to be O'Ced on SB750 mobos, and under O'Ced conditions will reach that power, but at the same time will surpass in performance 6400+ Windsors, that are no more produced... in fact complete 90nm production is basically finished.

Thanks to ACC those CPU's will easily reach and in majority of cases surpass 3 GHz mark under air...For a reference G2 Brisbanes are topping 3.2 GHz under air, and this Kuma will definitely be faster.

No doubt that their low price will push sales of SB750 mobos making them the most desirable Athlon X2 CPUs.
08-29-2008, 08:03 AM
AliG

I dunno, I still think they are disabled agenas and they don't clock well because they are the :banana::banana::banana::banana: bin. As mAJORD said, there would be no point in releasing a kuma cpu if it ran hotter, consumed more power, had a larger die and had only a slightly better ipc to make up for the poor clocking.
08-29-2008, 08:37 AM
squilliam

Newegg lists the 9950 as 140w.
08-29-2008, 04:29 PM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by squilliam

Newegg lists the 9950 as 140w.

Of course it is. The current 9950 is 140w. In a week or two we'll see a NEW STEPPING that only draws 125w for the same performance. I can't wait to see it overclock.
08-30-2008, 01:17 AM
w0mbat

But the 140W 9950 uses less power than the 125W 9850 so u cant belive in this number.
08-30-2008, 09:38 AM
LightSpeed

on topic: im still confused about the 6500. if it is a 2.3 k10, i hope sb750 clocks it up to 3.2 - 3.3 on average, which would make it faster than the average overclock of a 6400+
08-30-2008, 12:14 PM
AliG

I was right, here is confirmation that the dual core is nothing more than a disabled agena
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=2357
08-30-2008, 02:37 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliG

I was right, here is confirmation that the dual core is nothing more than a disabled agena
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=2357

Sorry to burst your bubble :),but did you even read that article?
They link to PCGH website which used the X4 with disabled cores to simulate the performance of the X2 Kuma Black Edition..So no,we don't know if it is X4 with 2 disabled cores...
08-30-2008, 06:22 PM
duploxxx

look at msi site, its listed as supported cpu

kuma B3 95W 6500+

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...&cat3_no=#menu
08-31-2008, 02:02 AM
w0mbat

Not 6500+, just 6500! Its a Kuma and no Brisbane.
08-31-2008, 06:29 AM
qurious63ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

Energy Efficient CPU's arrive from wafers done with different "recipe", this why those CPU's are more expensive... Kumas are arriving from standard wafers, and this 95W TDP is nominal wattage and in reality those CPU's on default will draw much less power.

But they're intend to be O'Ced on SB750 mobos, and under O'Ced conditions will reach that power, but at the same time will surpass in performance 6400+ Windsors, that are no more produced... in fact complete 90nm production is basically finished.

Thanks to ACC those CPU's will easily reach and in majority of cases surpass 3 GHz mark under air...For a reference G2 Brisbanes are topping 3.2 GHz under air, and this Kuma will definitely be faster.

No doubt that their low price will push sales of SB750 mobos making them the most desirable Athlon X2 CPUs.

What?? No their not. K10s all have the same "recipe" as you call it. I work in semiconductor manufacturing and there is no such thing as a separate line for energy efficient cpus. Same line, same process. The way it works is that you have a test and sort area in a fab that bins cpu into different categories, one being how leaky(current) they are. The least leaky ones can be binned into energy efficient cpus or extreme edition cpus, then the less ones are binned down the line by decreasing frequency.
08-31-2008, 10:03 AM
gallag

Quote:

Originally Posted by qurious63ss

What?? No their not. K10s all have the same "recipe" as you call it. I work in semiconductor manufacturing and there is no such thing as a separate line for energy efficient cpus. Same line, same process. The way it works is that you have a test and sort area in a fab that bins cpu into different categories, one being how leaky(current) they are. The least leaky ones can be binned into energy efficient cpus or extreme edition cpus, then the less ones are binned down the line by decreasing frequency.

Perhaps you can share a bit of info here:) Without going into any detail that could cost you your job, How common is it for chips that have been binned for high end to be used in a lesser range? As an example, Would intel bin loads of extreme edition capable chips and end up using them as Q6600 due to lack of demand?
08-31-2008, 12:05 PM
Rammsteiner

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

look at msi site, its listed as supported cpu

kuma B3 95W 6500+

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...&cat3_no=#menu

But wouldnt the 'B3' add-on actually clearify this is Agena? If it was a new chip really than I think it's a strange way to introduce a stepping:confused:
08-31-2008, 12:16 PM
JumpingJack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

But wouldnt the 'B3' add-on actually clearify this is Agena? If it was a new chip really than I think it's a strange way to introduce a stepping:confused:

Agreed... very weird. Two possibilities, a) Kuma is an Agena with 2 cores disabled or B) they taped out new stepping which is a Agena cut in half.

Option a is expensive (high costs), option b is cheaper and less costs. But one would think that option B would be accompanied by a step revision. Hmmmm. weird.
08-31-2008, 01:53 PM
qurious63ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

Perhaps you can share a bit of info here:) Without going into any detail that could cost you your job, How common is it for chips that have been binned for high end to be used in a lesser range? As an example, Would intel bin loads of extreme edition capable chips and end up using them as Q6600 due to lack of demand?

Yes, but not likely. Most likely it would be a Q6700. Remember you have specs for each SKU so even with the Q6600 you can have chips that have different performance but would still be binned Q6600 as long as they stay within the power spec at a given frequency.
08-31-2008, 05:35 PM
villa1n

Quote:

Originally Posted by qurious63ss

Yes, but not likely. Most likely it would be a Q6700. Remember you have specs for each SKU so even with the Q6600 you can have chips that have different performance but would still be binned Q6600 as long as they stay within the power spec at a given frequency.

ahhhh, now it makes sense! good to know ;)
09-01-2008, 12:26 AM
@@@@

Quote:

(product details & positioning available on September 1, with price announcement)

I guess all of the questions and speculations will be answered they will be announcing it today
09-01-2008, 05:41 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by qurious63ss

What?? No their not. K10s all have the same "recipe" as you call it. I work in semiconductor manufacturing and there is no such thing as a separate line for energy efficient cpus. Same line, same process. The way it works is that you have a test and sort area in a fab that bins cpu into different categories, one being how leaky(current) they are. The least leaky ones can be binned into energy efficient cpus or extreme edition cpus, then the less ones are binned down the line by decreasing frequency.

do you have insight on how AMD's propriety APM tech works?
09-01-2008, 05:47 AM
Shintai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

do you have insight on how AMD's propriety APM tech works?

Wouldnt it just be on teh same wafer and the extact same process fabriaction. Since you would either need new wafers or a new mask and new electrical verification? I doubt that would be economically viable for AMD. Not even Intel do that for low power parts.
09-01-2008, 03:42 PM
qurious63ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedjo

do you have insight on how AMD's propriety APM tech works?

No I don't, but if it's anything like what we do then they are basically tightening the limits (i.e. within wafer uniformity for dep or oxide steps) on their process by changing gas ratios, time, temp, or possibly different preventive maintenance on a tool. Small tweaks like this help with reducing transistor leakage.
09-01-2008, 03:50 PM
qurious63ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shintai

Wouldnt it just be on teh same wafer and the extact same process fabriaction. Since you would either need new wafers or a new mask and new electrical verification? I doubt that would be economically viable for AMD. Not even Intel do that for low power parts.

Yes same process. As the process matures you get better transistor elec characteristics as well as the bugs worked out without the need for a new mask.

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