What the title is saying. I need a new Sound card. I have read some reviews that praise the titanium quality. But what happens if i compare it with Xonar? Both are Pci-e. I ask because they are in the same price range.
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What the title is saying. I need a new Sound card. I have read some reviews that praise the titanium quality. But what happens if i compare it with Xonar? Both are Pci-e. I ask because they are in the same price range.
The XONAR offers better recording features, plus driver work in Vista for DDL AND DTS encode for full 8 channels @ 24/192khz.
As far as i know the latest X-Fi drivers work fine with Vista too. I would also like to say that i need the sound card for gaming - mp3 - DVD on 2.1 thx speakers.
C'mon noone have a comparison between these two?
The only advantages the titanium has are that it is the only native pci_e card on the market and has a great front panel, other than that you are better off saving your money and buying a used xtrememusic like I did on the cheap as it is good enough.
I haven't used a xonar before, I can see that I've heard it is of good quality, but after the patheticness of the asus supreme fx I'm not so sure I'll ever go through asus for a sound card
The D2X has the same opamps as teh X-FI Prelude, so sounds great. It's not like supremeFX.
Unfortuantely, not many peopel have the titanium, and with the driovers issues i the past with creative, not alot of people are going to be ready to jump ship just yet.
If you REALLY want good gaming, go Creative, and XP...but 2.1, i don't raelly think it will matter. You'll be hard-pressed to tell teh difference between the cards, other than that the Xonar is far more capable, and due to it NOT being pci-e native, unwanted noise does get filtered by the bridge chip.Quote:
gaming - mp3 - DVD on 2.1
I love my Xonar so much(playing hd-dvd/blu-ray, games, music, through 7.1) I'm buying the hometheatre edition (HDAV, with DTS-HD/DolbyMaster 7.1)as soon as it's available, even if it costs $500...I'm that satisfied.
that said though, I use my card with a digital connection, and let my amplier do the decoding, all in DTS(games too), so my view is not the average one. Analogue sounds just a good as the digital, but I find it a wee bit bass-heavy.
Go with an X-Gamer for games and try not to bother with the PCI-E version of either card. Xonar is more of a HTPC sound card. Games SOUND the way they were coded to sound with the X-Fi cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosAD
I do own the extreme music X-Fi atm, but it will be sold with my current pc, so i thought that any of the two would be a nice upgrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
I had the Titanium for about 7 days before returning it to get the Zonar Dx at a much cheaper price ($90). I am definitely keeping the DX for following reasons:
1. DX provides the alternative recording soure options (wav, stereo mix, aux, etc) which allows me to record the streaming audio over the net. Titanium no longer offers the record "what u hear" option as the card's only good for playing game and listening to music. The fact that I can no longer record what I am hearing on my PC was the reason I returned the Titanium. This card's step backward (to their extreme series).
2. has an excellent SQ which is either comparable or better than Titanium
3. PCIex1 interface & well-built, runs cooler
4. High quality Japanese made capacitors for longevity.
5. best of all - great price!!!
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2316939,00.asp
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2282593,00.asp
X-FI without any question if you are a gamer.
X-FI of course :up::up:
And if you're not?Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
POKEMANS!!!!!:p:
Already mentioned the use of the sound card. Gaming, movies, Mp'3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
My experience with Creative's recent sound cards have been like many others: POP! POP! POP! POP! BLUE SCREEN!
I'd highly advise NOT buying anything from Creative because you never know if you will have some conflict or not, and they do not update their drivers. As it stands right now, the last update for the X-Fi drivers (not software) was when they made a Vista version of the driver. The last update for XP was when the card was relased in 2005, and back then, Nvidias forceware version 77.77 worked fine with the X-Fi, but later Nvidia graphics drivers did not.
I replaced my X-Fi with a Xonar D2 and did not look back. No pops or periodic blue screens and the sound quality is ten times better as well. I wouldn't be too concerned about hardware acceleration with a sound card - it's pretty much a myth as the benefits are so very minor anyway to be completely honest. And as for EAX effects, the Xonar will now play anything the X-Fi will while sounding a lot better doing it.
The PCI-E cards are just PCI cards with a PCI-E bridge crossover card installed, so get whatever is cheaper.
Are the Titanium and the Titanium Fatal1ty sharing the same components on the PCB, besides the 16MB X-RAM compared to 64MB X-RAM? Or are things like (noob qn) the DAC, opamps changed? I can't seem to be able to find high-res images of both cards (Fatat1ty cover removed) to compare the physical differences.
Well, you can't have it all. The X-Fi is NOT the best card for audiophiles, nor is the D2X the best card for career gamers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosAD
For gaming there is only one thing and it's called X-Fi. So if you want the best of the best take Prelude. If you're looking for something cheaper, take vanilal X-Fi's like Xtreme Music. Xonars and all other C-Media based cards may have crisp and god knows what kind of sound but X-Fi's 3D positioning engine is the only true thing i'll always insist on.
The only audio chip where i can actually track enemies and opponents with exact precision where with others you can't even know whether they are on the same level or not, let alone where they stand on the same level. It's just bad.
That's been an issue from February 2008 , Not any more with new drivers, Hadn't ANY BSOD's since the new driver set from April ~ May 08. My SB is in the SIGQuote:
Originally Posted by fps_dean
If I'm not wrong, the X-Fi Titanium's chip is a native PCI-E design with no bridge. Can anyone confirm?
As for the X-Fi PCI series, I've used the XtremeMusic, and XtremeGamer FPS with both drivers from the CD and drivers from the Web but none gave me any problems. I've in fact never seen a BSOD, nor weird sounds caused by my Creative cards for years on my home rigs.
I faced this same question a few months ago, and chose the X-FI. I don't remember them now, but I did read the reviews that were out. No doubt the Asus card is a great card, but I've owned Creative's cards generation after generation, and have never been disappointed.
Sounds cards are a lot harder to compare against each other than other hardware. It's not like a CPU where we can obviously see it's faster, and thus better. It also has a lot to do with how we like to hear our audio, and also what we're used to hearing. For example I had always used 44Khz on my receiver because 96Khz sounded plain. Then, I forced myself to use 96Khz for a week, and now I'll never go back because 96Khz does sound better, despite being flatter on my (old) receiver.
I've owned everything from the first PCI Sound Blasters to the Audigy, Audigy 2, X-FI, and now the X-FI Prelude. I think my ears are a lot pickier than other people's, and I've always said I can tell the difference between a sound card, and integrated. Today's integrated might be pretty good, but I would still prefer having a dedicated card. My living room PC even has the SB Live in with with Logitech Z-5300 speakers, and it sounds great! No one ever complains that it doesn't sound good.
The only problem I've ever had with my X-FI Prelude is in BIOShock the driver became uninstalled. I think it's due to the lockup my system had when my GPU was over 90C for a few hours. Single slot coolers don't work very well obviously. Other than that, not a single problem, never a BSOD or crackle noises. Someone once told me the crackle noises are only in the gaming mode, and I'm always in the entertainment mode.
I use the digital out, and my Sony receiver is like 5+ years old, so I'm very limited compared to today's latest receivers, but I still have a very good feel for this sound card. A used ExtremeMusic can be had for $40 shipped(I paid $35 shipped months ago on ebay), and I paid $200 for my Prelude off of Newegg a few months ago. I don't know how much better the Prelude is, it's hard to tell. It's not 5 times better, but is better.
Unless if you know of a specific compatibility issue with your hardware, I'd go with the Creative card. Go after the used $40 ones, it's a really great value!
I own an X-FI XM and Xonar on PCI, their both decent cards. Xonar has and advantage when it comes to music, but with a potent amplifier the X-Fi can be very near. I've seen a lot of people claiming that Xonar compared to X-Fi offers a huge difference when it comes to music, but I find this more like the Placebo Effect. Yes it's better for music, since it has higher quality components but but it's a small difference only felt by true audiophiles and proper equipment (AKG 701, BD DT 880 Pro, Grado SR 80, etc...). But even they have use an amplifier to make it worth wile.
As for gaming, if you moved to Vista EAX is pretty useless since Alchemy is more like joke then a capable software to get EAX run on Vista. I had problems with all kind of games, were the game sounded worst with Alchemy (rain, foot steps sound was missing), then with out it, even crashing because of it. I personally don't use EAX on Vista and don't recommended either since "Vista killed EAX" and XP is a dieing OS when it comes to games.
If you can keep the old card and have to buy a new one. go with Xonar. The primary sound for all games runs great on Xonar, same goes for X-Fi, or even some integrated chips, on the other hand EAX is an alternative sound which is emulated by Xonar and runs native on X-Fi, but being useless with Vista (as mentioned above) you can't take it for granted as a bonus or feature, more like a pain in your ears and hart for spending money an a useless feature. Let's not forget Xonar is real great with DTS and that might be the future of gaming, since it works just fine on Vista.
So yeah, my recommendation is: Forget about EAX and go with Xonar since it's more capable then X-Fi. You might even go for a PCI version since most PCI-e slots are badly positioned on most motherboards. Most people that hate Creative will tale you the same, but I'm not doing it from same reason, you have above the right motives. I personally never had BSOD, related to my sound card. Usually that's a problem related to poor designed motherboards incapable of handling PCI cards the right way. It's true that there were some X-Fi card with problems, but most of them have the motherboard as the primary source (and no, it's not just with some nForce 4 - since with some worked just fine, yer this problem reappeared on other boards even with Intel chipset).
Most people that recommend X-Fi (if not all) never used a Xonar, that's the only thing they used so that's the only thing they recommend. It's more like a Fanboy thing, or come to think of it - that's exactly what it is :). I personally was a little disappointed with Xonar since it didn't give me that huge difference that I was expecting based on some opinions, which now I know - they come from Creative haters. But, putting that aside, Xonar is better - so why waste money on something that's not that good when it comes to quality (build and sound), just because it has a useless feature like EAX?
PS.On XP - EAX sounds great, it's a shame M$ didn't offer a better alternative for DS. But that's a lost cause which Creative desperately tried to revive with Alchemy, to bad they didn't succeed the right way.
nice post, i rather like this kind of experience than pseudo guru's talkingQuote:
Originally Posted by XSAlliN
about something they don't even know, and their opinion is build on other people
opinion. so for me your consideration is very usefull. :up:
Yes there is no bridge, its native pcieQuote:
Originally Posted by TWY
I've been using Alchemy in Vista for years now, without the problems and bugs you describe..Quote:
Originally Posted by XSAlliN
Did you actually ever try to go to Alchemy's wiki and forums to see how to configure Alchemy correctly for each game? Beacuse it's not something you simply turn on..
You must configure the registry path and sound hardware compatibility for each game you use. It's quite an easy job and you need to do that only once for each game, and they have a detailed list for each supported game with those definitions.
And even without Alchemy, it's not like the X-Fi's DSP advantages are useless in Vista. Every game that's compatible with OpenAL (and it's quite a lot of them, for example every Unreal Engine 3 based game) will make good use of X-Fi's hardware acceleration.
And yes, in OpenAL games, the difference between using an X-Fi and a simple hd codec (asus xonar) is huge in the richness of sound effects and immersion (but not in raw sound quality, of course). I tested that several times, toggling between my XtremeMusic and my mobo's ALC880D.
Take Bioshock for example (that I played using Vista 64bit). With the X-Fi you can sense if the NPC is in a bathroom, in a small room or in a park. The sound is equalized based on the surroundings of the sound-source and the place where you hear that from. The number of voices is also greatly reduced if there's no hardware acceleration.
When using an hd codec like the one in xonar I would lose all that realism.
Don't you mean special effects? :)Quote:
When using an hd codec like the one in xonar I would lose all that realism.
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Honestly I did tried it with a lot of games and fallowed a lot of guides based on each game, but doesn't give the same result as it those with XP automatically. I used it with "The Witcher" last time, and with it Enabled, I couldn't hear the rain drops or the footsteps. All this based on different settings (personal or used by other users from creative forum). Even with that minus I still tried it, expecting some difference - and it did give me that difference by crashing the game (fallowed the error report and lead back to alchemy). Most users are just happy if they can find a way to enable EAX with some games in Vista -and when they do their so excited that don't realize the lack off certain sounds. Only after mentioning about that, they came to realize that EAX doesn't give them a plus of sound but a minus. You might say Alchemy is a DS emulator for Vista and a resampler in the same time but not a capable one and I'm not the first one who said that and definitely won't be the last. Just try and make a comparison between all you games in XP with EAX enabled, compared to Vista by Alchemy. I did that after moving to Vista and that was a waste of time, by trying to accomplish the impossible from a "user" point of view. As mentioned before Vista killed EAX (DirectSound3D), or crippled it so badly that's not worth using with Vista. If I want EAX, I switch back to XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by XSAlliN
So besides The Witcher, what other games gave you problems in Vista using Alchemy?
My god... can't they just make something work I mean jesus.... Just have 1 SOUND CARD THAT DOES IT ALLL!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by XSAlliN
Now I am probably going to go with xonar but say... hmmm I am missing those game immersive sounds....
The Xonar has GX 2.0 which gives some effects in games. They are not quite the quality of hardware effects from a KX series DSP chip found in the X-fi's but the GX drivers will make you games sound much better then without it. That is if you decide to go with the Xonar card. I have used the Prelude for gaming in both XP and VIsta and had little to no issues you install ALchemy if your game needs it configure it and leave it alone...not as hard as some make it out to be. Mnay new games use Native OpenAL so they don't need ALchemy at all... they have hardware accelerated effects right out of the box in Vista.
True, but it's good enough and works better (compatibility/stability related) and automatic you don't have to bother with special settings like you do with Alchemy. On the other hand it need's more CPU, like 6% - 8% compared to 2%-4% of X-FI (the hardware capable of acceleration - X-Fi XM and above). To bad most of us have Durons and Celerons and we have to save as much CPU as possible. How I wish I could afford a powerful CPU like the High-End E2160, but it's 67 $ - only millionaires could afford that. :rolleyes:
If only somebody capable would fix EAX to work with Vista, so that Creative could buy it from them cause obviously they're not good at what their doing (OpenAl -was not developed by Creative, they just bough it from it).
Another reason why I would pick Xonar over Creative - COMPONENTS QUALITY!! As some smart user discovered Creative X-FI XtremeMusic could be much better if modded with quality components (the secret behind Prelude). Xonar already came with quality components, even cheap models use them (except DAC's).
Creative cards were never cheap for what they have to offer and always picked profit over Quality. If it works is good enough for them. They do have so capable engineers, that ones that developed their chips but it's not up to them regarding the quality of the components used and when it comes to software that's simply their worst domain, only with a miracle they have some success (or with external sources). On their defense, they're no the only ones with software problems and part of them is Microsoft's fault.
Creative Labs does not own OpenAL. It is a open standard and there have been many people working on it's development.
It' true others help to, but Creative gets the benefits. :)Quote:
OpenAL was originally developed by Loki Software in order to help them in their business of porting Windows games to Linux. After the demise of Loki, the project was maintained for a while by the free software/open source community — but it is now hosted (and largely developed) by Creative Technology with on-going support from Apple and free software/open source enthusiasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XSAlliN
Agree. Creative was selling their marketing program rather than a real quality "audio" product. My experience with Creative was quite bad with their bloated software and customer support. Moreover, after i tried Xonar, then I knew how significant audio quality difference it could be, especially for some music over headphones, and great speakers. You guys can try RightMark 3D Sound Analyzer demo sounds to test on onboard codec, Creative X-Fi, and Xonar with a pair of headphones and you will find the suprising differences. I guess it's mainly due to the much better THD+N/IMD performance (-108dB) on Xonar, which could be verified easily with the bundled RMAA program.
Prelude is better than Creative's cards with their DAC compoments but it's still not as good as Xonar's output quality according to the RMAA test results from many review sites.
I'd go with the Xonar. When my X-Fi finally grows old or dies, I'll be switching to the Asus line of cards... unless creative whips something new out that can beat it.
I wouldn't worry about the lack of EAX 5
X-Fi Titanium Fatality PCI-E
never a problem with it, Alchemy works fine, never had to muck about to get it to work.
Vista compatibility is a long dead issue.
so..I got a similary problem........need a new sound card. My Supreme FX II sucks, and I got a 5.1 in my room.
So I need to know wich one is better for music/games/HD-MOVIES....Xonar DX2 or X-FI Fatal1ty???? (PCI). My O.S Is Vista 64 Bits, but I can go back on XP SP3 :D :p
Thanks for the helps guys :D
I have the X-FI, i use it for everything, gaming, moves, music, and music creation through ASIO, works perfect!!! Xonas is a good card, but not for gamers, it is slower, and has crackling in some games. Plus you need another power connector, also uses a pci-e bridge, x-fi titanium is a native pci-e card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
A frame or 2 doesn't matter here and there, I use my X-fi for everything but going to upgrade to Xonar.. all I get is fuzz fuzz crackle and things like CMS3d just not working.
but them I listen to music most anyway :)
I have BSOD once every 10 or 15 boot and no more creative soundcards for me, nice to see that its not just my setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by fps_dean
same with mine X-FI titanium and same with X-FI Xtremegamer Pro FPSQuote:
Originally Posted by PRJ
WOW! Holy late replies Batman! Auzentech X-Fi Prelude still kicks Asus' @$$!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHydes