Printable View
reviewQuote:
We made a small test (3dmark Vantage) of a Radeon 4850 Crossfire System with the Catalyst 8.8 beta. We tested with a Intel Q6600 (3.8 GHz) and 4GB DDR3. The benches I've added. Look forward, the final Catalyst 8.8 can maybe a little bit better! The powerconsumption is the whole system.
driver
nearly 40watts drop in idle power consumption. :up:
Will drivers be able to low the idle voltage in the 4870? The 4850 can do it via BIOS, show us the 4870 :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
links were so slow i needed another shave :down:
That. Is. A. HUGE. Vantage. Jump.
And I thought by looking at 06 the 4850s weren't that potent...
Good increase in Vantage + great improvement in idle power cons.
I hope this driver package brings some game improvements as well.
Jedi Academy working (it wasn't in 8.7), Assassin's Creed crash on me in 1 minute. No improvements in idle frequency or power consumption (single 4870).
:2cents:
What cards you have?4xxx series?Are you sure PowerPlay is functioning properly(verify the clocks and voltage)?
Yeah me two the Assassin's Creed crash on me two I thought I am the only one. But I think I can play it about 30mins but actually it is pretty random crash. I don't understand why either so it is because of the 8.7 driver?Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Single 4870. Yep, no clocks/voltage difference, 500/750 for idle/load, 1.275v always (using DMM). Power consumption of my entire system stays between 150-160W at idle, just like before.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I didn't have any crashes in AC with 8.7, with this beta it crashes just after you appear in the master's office, always in the same place. Other games work like a charm though.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2sw21
The latest reference BIOS for HD4870 (.029335) already has lower idle voltage for the GPU.
Anyone have a download link for these that isn't pctreiber.net? Their server is timing out, must have crashed.
edit: nm, links at the bottom of the first post work.
Where is that BIOS? The last one I have notice is the ASUS TOP which is .029329Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
I can't even get these drivers to work at all on vista 64. The first file won't open and the second one is missing the ini file.
You only see a drop in power consumption if you have a CROSSFIRE system. One card powers down at idle probably. There won't be any difference with a single card.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
oh yes, please link to the bios with working pp for the 4870. Why does it take amd so long to get this feature working?
So are you saying powerplay will never work on the 4870's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechromancer
so the improvements are only for crossfire? i'd have expected them to reduce power consumption with a single card also... :O
So you suggest in Crossfire with 8.7 both cards are at full clocks/voltage and with this beta one of the cards goes idle? That doesn't make any sense at all. And a 40W drop, 20W per card...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechromancer
I won't trust those numbers until confirmed by a reliable source, ie an user here.
Anyone have any results, are these better than the 8.7's does CCC work in vista 64???
So the 40W drop is bogus?
I still get the INF error with ATI's drivers....... time to ebay these cards and get a single GTX 280
Finally got them to install after 3 tries, CCC still doesnt work under Vista 64, I can care less if anyone agrees, ATI's drivers suck a$$
This drivers changes pretty much nothing :)
Don't know about these but CCC works fine in Vista64 using both the hotfix and 6.7. with the 4870.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I don't know about with crossfire, but CCC works for me in Vista x64. I won't deny that ATI's drivers suck (as does the CCC), but they suck comparable to nvidias. Have fun going green, if drivers are what you want I'd suggest getting an Intel card.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I used an nvidia card on vista 64 for 1 1/2 years without issues, from my exp. nvidia has better drivers. I can sit here and name 20 issues i have had with ati, but i cant think of 3 from nvidia, good hardware is nothing without better drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptobs2000
Please do, I'd want to hear them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Intel is even worse than NVIDIA or AMD at graphics drivers, at least that is what their chipset graphics drivers so far have shown. I just hope they change that when Larrabee arrives.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptobs2000
BTW GAR, are you complaining about some problems with Beta drivers? Or did you have some official drivers? If it's the former then I'd say stop complaining as there is a reason for the driver to still be in a beta phase.
About driver problems, I have never had any of those, not with NVIDIA and not with ATI. So I don't have any brand preference based on driver problems.
nVidia drivers have on major problem:
The interface is crap, I had a 7900GTX and sold it after a week cause I hated the interface. Some people like it, I dont. AMD's drivers are way easier and nicer interface wise. They might have some bugs now and then but hardly are an issue.
Either it's fixed in the next driver or you simply switch back to the previous one;)
Ive actually had problems with beta's and non beta's, uhhh and just because its not official, doesnt mean its not supposed to install, my issues have been with installation, CCC not working, older games running slow, DX errors all over the place, the only games that work are Valve games work flawless, COD 4 works flawless, many games ive tried have had issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Actually, judging by your sig i can tell you are a AMD fanboy, as drivers progress for the 4800 series, this is with vista 64 and crossfire, things get worse....and if you read my comments, i always say this is my own experience, and i dont care for yours or anyone else, because im the one with the issues, i dont need to hear how nice your drivers and computer is, the fact is you dont have an identical setup as mine, and dont tell me some B/S like reinstall your OS, this is all with brand new OS install. And like i said, from MY OWN EXPERIENCE i have had no issues with nvidia in vista 64, prior to this card i had plenty of nvidia cards for 2 years running vista 64.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
You should not portray your own experience as a general fact then, you are only talking about a specific case and not for every single system.
I hate CCC, since they went to it i've had nothing but issues.
The actual drivers have never given me an unsolvable issue though.
I like the CCC interface over nvidias in regards to their 3d settings (AA/AF etc). I like how they show a preview window of before and after, but why can't you expand the left :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing column! How :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing elementary is that :banana::banana::banana::banana:? And I really really miss nvidias game profiles when moving over to ATI. I just don't bother using AA/AF a lot of times due to how cumbersome that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
Your problem is Crossfire, drivers for CF sucks a$$. Remove one of the cards and play a bit, you'll realice all those problems are gone. This will not fix your extrange installation issues though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Yes i realize problems are probably due to crossfire, BUT i dont want to be stuck with a single 4850, i game on a 24" lcd so i need more power for AA/AF use, anyway im thinking about a GTX 280, single GPU is the best solution, slapping 2 gpu's with a bridge is still gonna give same issues :down: , from now on, i will stick to a single powerful gpu.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
So what ARE the problems in apps GAR ?
I know, just saying the problem is limited to CF only. You should have gone with the GTX280 from the beginning if you want that perfomance and you don't want CF/SLI problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Well i tried the new Flatout game, with 8xaa it runs at 2fps, even without AA, frames dip below 30 alot, GTA SA runs like crap, my 7800gtx runs it better, World in conflict wont run, grid gives errors and goes to desktop, i can name a few more but its gonna be a waste of time, someone is going to preach on how they love amd, and they wanna give amd driver team a hug and a kiss, lmao anyway, enless you can help me, dont bother quoting me, its useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
if ccc isnt installing correctly (which does happen) then you need to reinstall vista... i've only had to do this when i've been playing with beta drivers and they havnt uninstalled correctly....
ati drivers vs nvidia.... ati everytime..imo....
powerplay 2.0 seems to of been an advertising gimmick...
gar... i play grid and have never had an error whilst using crossfire... and all those other issues, well i can see a fresh install in your near future....
I got the cards for $275 out the door, i can still sell them and make money so at this moment its a matter of when i choose to sell, which is very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Do you ever read peoples posts when you reply to them? i said this is a brand new install and this has happened before with NEW installs.Quote:
Originally Posted by purecain
I haven't had a single of the issues you describe. All the games mentioned runs great.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I'm not going to preach, but it seriously looks like you have some issues with your rig. Have you tried express removing ATI drivers and then running driver sweeper in safe mode ( http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/ ) ? and then remove any left over ATI files and then install the drivers again ?
If you can't play GRID or WIC then there is something very odd going on and it's not just your ATI cards fault.
+1, your rig is the culprit. Swallow your pride and do some troubleshooting before you noob it up at XS. DriverCleaner and DriverSweeper will get you going again. Use them in Safe Mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toysoldier
I have a few systems on the bench I can try these on, will try and get 3D06 numbers tomorrow. Just in time for our i34 show systems!
8.52, 8.6 and 8.7 vs these.
As far as I know PowerPlay is for use on Hybrid (7x0G) boards and should shut down discrete graphics when not in use. To do this the feature must exist and be enabled in BIOS and the primary display must be attached to the onboard video card. In Crossfire systems it operates in a similar way, powering down all but the primary card.
Links to my DropBox for the Cat 8.8 first time I've tried this, let me know if it works:
Vista
XP32
ATI PowerPlay™ Technology
* Advanced power management technology for optimal performance and power savings
* Performance-on-Demand
o Constantly monitors GPU activity, dynamically adjusting clocks and voltage based on user scenario
o Clock and memory speed throttling
o Voltage switching
o Dynamic clock gating
o Central thermal management – on-chip sensor monitors GPU temperature and triggers thermal actions as required
Yeah i use drive cleaner and driver sweeper, i get 20k in 3dmark 06, and 13k in vantage, its not my rig, its the drivers, are you using vista 64?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toysoldier
CCC works fine here, Vista 64. Reinstall FTW!Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
No, that's not correct. The activity factor (ie. what parts of the chip are in use) is also a major part of the power equation (for dynamic power consumption).Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Assuming that the drivers control PowerPlay (which controls clock gating as well), it could be possible that the new drivers tweak the clock gating parameters much more aggressively than the previous drivers, assuming that ATI provided opcodes to do this.
I don't doubt what GAR says, and in opposition, I don't doubt what any of you say either, but it all equals blarg ablarg ablarg:brick:.
Yeah you're 100% right, but we're supposing a situation where the active parts of the chip are the same. I'm saying that with this driver nothing changes: same frequency as before (the one selected in the BIOS), same voltage as before (the one selected in the BIOS and measured with a DMM) and same power consumption as before, tested with Volterra's amp meter via Everest and Gigabyte Odin's Power Tuner software (I know, it's crap, but does its job VERY well).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmage
To all in general and those who believe in magic drivers in particular, read this thread carefully: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33928416
Drivers tell the card when it should use the 2D profile and when it should use the 3D profile. But 2D and 3D profiles (clocks and voltages) are stored in the BIOS, so the card will only use what it is in the BIOS. The 'PowerPlay is broken, we will fix it in the next drivers' thing was that the driver sometimes didn't change from 3D profile to 2D profile after exiting graphics intensive applications, so the card remained at 3D clocks. This was fixed in the Cats8.7, so the card now always uses the 2D profile when it's at idle. But still, the profile it uses is the one stored in the BIOS, that can't be changed by drivers. So if you're waiting some kind of reduced idle clocks or reduced voltage at idle in future driver releases you won't find it, never. The only thing that had to be fixed (the card remained at 3D clocks) is already fixed. The only solution to lower power consumption is a BIOS flash with less voltage and/or lower clocks in the 2D profile. I have now the BIOS that has an idle voltage of 1.203v instead of 1.263v, and NOW and ONLY NOW that it is specified in the BIOS' 2D profile the card sucks less power.
If this driver fixes something in Crossfire mode is because one or two of the cards didn't go to 2D mode at idle before, and now they do it. The same happened to single cards before Cats8.7 remember? Now it's the time for fixing dual cards it seems.
The only thing you can do via software is to use Overdrive, that somewhat forces custom clocks and custom voltages (voltages through editing and XML file, very small gains, check the fan fix thread for more info) but ONLY in load mode, it does nothing at idle. Another option is to use ATITool or Rivatuner, but that's only for clocks and they still don't have support for the RV770. AMD GPU Clock Tool works just fine.
Yes, I'm using Vista x64.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I'm gonna try the 852 ones out and see what happens. :)
ok GAR made an over generalization, cant you all look past this and realize that his fiance is hot... though GAR im not gonna lie i liked the old pic better
lol, thanks :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by dunn2953
may i ask is your vista a pirated "optimized" version alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I had alot of problems with one of those and just made my comp break every month basically
was x64 too then tried a different version and was absolutely fine :)
I installed them and got a 600 point bump in vantage...
I'm a MS partner through my business, its 100% legal, i have legal keys to all MS software.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
I also had all kind of problem with the 8.7 (8.6 hotfix was fine though). I had random crashes in GRID, atitool artifacting at stock speed after a while and CCC running in background but impossible to see it ... Even after several uninstallation, sweeping and reinstallation I would have a problem or another.
It might be something with my XP installation (although I've never had anything like that with my previous 8800GT), but I refuse to reinstall the OS every time I update my VGA driver ... :rolleyes:
So finally, I uninstalled all ATI drivers/software, installed only the driver and installed Ati tray tool to replace CCC, works like a charm :up:
you're able to run atitool with your 4870? is there a beta i've missed? as atitool isn't working with my 4850 :(Quote:
Originally Posted by r4st4m4n
ont: 8.7 works flawflessly here, as well as 8.6!
ATI Tool works with any DX8 (maybe it's 9?) card. You just can't control the clocks with the 4800's should be able to artifact test still.
No probs here. The only difference is my Vantage score. Besides that, it all plays the same.
Now, guess the 10 million dollar question, by looking at this:
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7867/furmarkwt2.jpg
Original filemane.
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4627/furaz6.jpg
Renamed executable.
All the drivers, before this 8.8 beta, were Ok with the performance in FurMark.
:eek:
hum, atitool isn't even starting here :(Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptobs2000
after i've run it, my cpu usage jumps to 100%, but atitool won't open. even if i wait for a few minutes... mh..
First off, read a post before you go nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I didnt ever say my system, either hardware and/or software way, is better than yours.
Why can people say they think AMD drivers suck, but if I say that I think nVidia's drivers does lack some serious/easy interface Im an AMD fanboy? Way to go there;).
Also, Ive no :banana::banana::banana::banana:'n clue what the hell you're talking about regarding re-installing OS. Besides that, goodluck with getting support if you only accept help from someone with only your setup and software:shakes:.
As I said, way to go man:down:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
i have never ever had a problem with ati drivers, with any card, with any configuration. looks like you may have more issues than you think.
Like i said in the other posts, i can care less if you have no issues, or how much you want to make love to ATI, i posted my results and your comments are just adding b/s to this thread, if you cant offer a helping hand, just stay out, no one cares for your opinion, now go donate money to ati since you love them so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by saki_bomber
Wow, people lately here have been amazing me. I'm not gonna say anything, ur not worth getting banned over, you have something to say to me, my AIM is to your left, feel free to contact me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
:ROTF:, it more looks like you're on an anti-AMD rage then trying to make a conclusion out of any remark:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
It's a problem with your setup and not a 'usual' AMD problem?;). Anyhow, did you try anything like switching the cards (top<-->bottom)? Or into other PCI-e slots perhaps? Anything in BIOS which allows you to change PCIe lanes for PCIe slots?:shrug:
Like I care if you get your self banned or not. I use no chatting programs, so badluck.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Check this, also, is your CPU OC'd? maybe you're simply CPU bottlenecked although I dont think so, it might be.
Chill out guys.
tbh GAR with constant Catalyst problems you experience I seriously doubt they are caused by display drivers. Believe me or not but display drivers failure may and in the cases you've described often is caused by something different.
I do hope you'll find that cause and get it fixed.
I have since removed one card, World in conflict now works, it was a crossfire problem, so it seems most of my problems are caused by crossfire, i have since sold one of my 4850's and got myself a 4870 for a good deal which should be here by thursday, i have an extra 4850 which is clocked at 725/2250 through bios stock voltages only bump in fan speed, one speedy card by itself as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
same GAR, i have an oc'd 280gtx and I like it. I was thinking of going w/ a CF setup since I have a x38 board, but the issues always scare me, not to mention thermals. A 4850/70 or 260/280 i think is the way to go depending on your budget.
Yeah, seems like crossfire has much more issues than i thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by postumus
CF was giving me problems for a while too, I kept reinstalling drivers a lot until one day I did a full clean using Ati expressUnInstall and drivercleaner, and once installed 8.7, boom worked like a charm. I think you need to spend a bit more effort fixing your drivers before you condemn them. they weren't messed up in the first place, and its usually poor re-install procedure that causes issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by GAR
I was talking about Ati tray tool, not ATI tool. Ati tray tool is a replacement for CCC with few more features.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
And yeah I'm using the latest 1.4.7 beta. I heard the previous version doesn't work very well with the HD4870.
I'm having a very weird problem. I don't know if it's caused by the 8.8 beta's or the Asus TOP bios.
The problem only happens in 2d stuff (desktop) and i can't replicate it on the fly. It's very random. I just browse the net and stuff and for some reason the display turns off, both cards spin their fans at 100% and it just sits like that. Windows still works but i get no display. I have to reboot to get it to work again. It's very annoying and very noisy :)
Anyone else getting this crap with these drivers? Nevermind the bios...
Ariciu,
Since you are having problems using unofficially released beta's stick with Cat 8.7 until Cat 8.8 is released in a few days (or just wait)? Also from what I've read, if you have beta release 8.52.2 this is suppose to be specific to 4870 X2 not CF or single card.
Better yet, why not report your problem to the them. This goes for anyone, you can report it here :up:
you did talk about atitool and that's what i was refering to ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by r4st4m4n
that's why i asked if it's working for you, because atitool is still not working here.Quote:
[...] atitool artifacting at stock speed after a while [...]
but it seems like tzhe problem is only limited to me :p: going to install a clean winxp anyways, so hopefully it'll work then :)
Yep, even do it doesn't have official support, ATi Tray Tools + Display Driver is the best combination. Maybe once Ray gets the hand on HD 48xx we might new surprises with ATT. ;)
Got same problems with ati drivers with old x800 graphics, now cant install any ati driver on xp, i swich that graphics to other pc, driver was instaled fine...Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
So i need to delete whole xp coz that bs driver and ccc and net_frame_:work, so this driver is like 120 meg one.:ROTF:
Reinstalled 8.7 and everything is fine.
anybody else experience odd stuttering with these cards/drivers?
seems the game works fine until i get into a very light specific area at certain range or when having fast moving objects move across the screen.
i'm hoping its the drivers but... I had an older ati card that never did this.
Installed 8.8 on my 4850 and everything is fine.
TBH I never had any problems whatsoever with ati drivers, but I only had a 2600 XT, 3850 and now the 4850.
Oh and I also updated the bios of my 4850, which lowers idle clocks to 160/500 mhz, which makes temp and power consumption go down loads.
My old Atitool (0.24?) crashed upon starting.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
0.27beta4 and supposedly beta3, well, starts. The fur stress test runs, but
when I hit Find max, it crashed and rebooted the machine. No temps, no
current clocks displayed either. For the stress test, maybe Furmark would
be better?
it really is sad that crossfire and SLi still have so many issues. its been quite a while since they hve been introduced, tech should be more mature now
but ATI drivers usually give my less problems than nv in general. what improvements from cat 8.8's show in games? i dont care much about vantage, no offense here, just my opinion..
A new beta is available - Catalyst 8.8 (8.54) at 400MB premium-pack! :slobber:
is there also XP version somewhere ?Quote:
Originally Posted by fellix_bg
Nope... :(Quote:
The OpenGL and D3D are newer.
It appears these are Vista 32 and 64 bit ONLY!
Sorry to XP people.
__________________Quote:
I've installed the 8.54 beta driver. Installation was trouble-free. I've added the missing AA line in the .ini before.
I've checked out CoJ DX10, Crysis DX10 and Vantage so far. Performance wise the 8.54 driver is in CoJ DX10 as fast as Cat 8.7 and up to 10% faster in Crysis and Vantage.
And the best of all: the flashing white dots in Crysis DX10 are gone.
Oups sorry, I thought you were talking about the 2nd part of my post :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
And yes indeed ATItool is working with me, no OC part though, just the artifact test.
Tested the 8.8's fully (not new 400mb ones). Check out how they did here -> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...84#post3197984