It is offical: NVIDIA allows SLI on Intel X58!

NVIDIA has published PR saying SLI will be supported on Intel X58 motherboards via NVIDIA nForce 200 SLI processor (just like on Skulltrail):

"New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets."

"Our SLI technology allows us to combine the power of hundreds of GeForce processing cores in multi-GPU configurations with Intel’s latest CPUs for platforms that are sure to excite our customers." sais Jeff Fisher, senior vice president of GPU business at NVIDIA.

:clap:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

i think this is a great win of nvidia. they carry sli to nehalem without giving it to intel.

Thanks!

Good news but is this something that will be forced on all X58 chipsets, or limited to only some?

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Originally Posted by kromosto

i think this is a great win of nvidia. they carry sli to nehalem without giving it to intel.

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:up:

They make some money by this, but it may not have been the best option.

I'll be sure to get one without the MCP200. Less heat, less $, more to spend on DDR3 instead. :D

thanks for posting about this confirmation. I've been among those not quite happy about having to pay an NVidia tax on X58 (knowing that SLI could probably work well without the NForce chip)...see recent thread about that, but well, this is probably better after all, at least a first step, allowing to avoid the purchase of a full and buggy NVidia mobo...so all in all better than the previous situation.

This is utter bollocks, AMD gets my money. Think about it, with Nvidia, you buy the GPU and the chip, with AMD, you buy the GPU, and don't have to worry about potential hardware conflicts. ATi FTW!

Hopefully the ones with the SLI chip are optional or can become obsolete once Nvidia get's the full license to make their own LGA 1366 motherboards.

Perkam

So much for ATI's revival.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't SLI performance on the Skulltrail quite poor?

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't SLI performance on the Skulltrail quite poor?

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This can be explained in part by the use of slower FB-DIMMS on that platform

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

I'll be sure to get one without the MCP200. Less heat, less $, more to spend on DDR3 instead. :D

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Same here :up:.
Whats still not all that clear to me is the status of Nvidia's license for Nehalem.. Guess we'll have to wait it out and see what the official word is. Not that I'd ever need an Nvidia mainboard

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

I'll be sure to get one without the MCP200. Less heat, less $, more to spend on DDR3 instead. :D

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If there will be any High end boards without them (aside form the first production models, which always have a newer "better" one a few months later), for that price its hard to believe companies will still have 2 separate high end branches for ATI only and Nvidia, since they can now just make one board that does both.

Once you think about it, it's actually misleading. A true license would mean Intel, the Mobo makers and etc.. would get Driver support, not a MCP Chip. On the bright side though, at least its PCI-E 2.0 and will not downgrade like MCP-100.

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So much for ATI's revival.

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Not really, I know plenty of folks who'll stick with AMD's Radeon, I know I will=P

Nice premium on the boards with the chipset i bet (n)

Good news, im happy, as ive always wanted a unified motherboard to support both ATI crossfire and SLi, i wish they didnt need that chipset tho, as im sure its going to have some sli slow downs, just like the 790i kicked the 780's arse when it came to sli.

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Originally Posted by Zaskar

If there will be any High end boards without them (aside form the first production models, which always have a newer "better" one a few months later), for that price its hard to believe companies will still have 2 separate high end branches for ATI only and Nvidia, since they can now just make one board that does both.

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In the other thread there were links/rumours claiming $30 price of the chip in 1000 unit batch. If it were like 15 bucks, I can see most companies slapping it on, but at $30 its sure gonna make them think first

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Originally Posted by NeedMoMegaHurtZ

This can be explained in part by the use of slower FB-DIMMS on that platform

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FB-DIMMs might not be the problem. It can be explained by the fact that MCP-100 is PCI-E 1.1. MCP-200 is 2.0 wouldn't downgrade Skulltrail's support for PCI-E 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

I'll be sure to get one without the MCP200. Less heat, less $, more to spend on DDR3 instead. :D

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Same.

Maybe I'll stick some 'AMD GPG' stickers on the entire thing just for the sacrilege value. :cool:

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Originally Posted by situman

So much for ATI's revival.

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Since when was ATi dead? 2900XT? Thats about it. SLi isnt the end all to GPU sales... ;) Prices win, and $750 GPU isnt the way to do it, hence the multiple price cuts before and immediatly after launch

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Originally Posted by GAR

Good news, im happy, as ive always wanted a unified motherboard to support both ATI crossfire and SLi, i wish they didnt need that chipset tho, as im sure its going to have some sli slow downs, just like the 790i kicked the 780's arse when it came to sli.

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This would be awesome tho somehow I really doubt Nv would allow its competitor to use the same board. There will be some sort of lockout Im willing to bet.

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Originally Posted by Neuuubeh

In the other thread there were links/rumours claiming $30 price of the chip in 1000 unit batch. If it were like 15 bucks, I can see most companies slapping it on, but at $30 its sure gonna make them think first

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I don't know, when you think of the costs to manufacture, and get resellers to buy 2 top tier high end boards, with that being the only difference, its hard to think that they would still make 2 separate lines. I really think for their top models, it will include this chip.

Time will tell :up:

So do that mean we gonna see X58 Nvida motherboards from Xfx EVGA and other nvidia only boards retails?

Interesting. Not a huge fan of having these little "SLI chips" added to the boards but then again, a single board to do SLI and CF is good in my book.

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Originally Posted by C.Ron7aldo

So do that mean we gonna see X58 Nvida motherboards from Xfx EVGA and other nvidia only boards retails?

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Sure:up: nVidia and Intel will pay for each other's tech, I think!!

This just screams FAIL. nVidia are going to ruin X58 with their SLI chip since they cant produce a decent chipset of their own i just hope theres an option to get a board WITHOUT the SLI chip.

sooo just sli? or SLi and crossfire?

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

FB-DIMMs might not be the problem. It can be explained by the fact that MCP-100 is PCI-E 1.1. MCP-200 is 2.0 wouldn't downgrade Skulltrail's support for PCI-E 2.0.

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That was the primary problem with ST1. FB-DIMMS have 40% increased latency over their unbuffered DDR2 counterparts.

or are you claiming that there is that much of a difference in FPS in the current crop of games between PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0?

Let's hope ST2 will get better memory as well

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Originally Posted by NeedMoMegaHurtZ

That was the primary problem with ST1. FB-DIMMS have 40% increased latency over their unbuffered DDR2 counterparts.

or are you claiming that there is that much of a difference in FPS in the current crop of games between PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0?

Let's hope ST2 will get better memory as well

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Actually I'm claiming that difference will hardly matter on Current Skulltrail, nothing else.

I think ST2 will have DDR3 and not FB-DIMMS that'd require a new IMC. No problem on X58 because it will use DDR3 X 3 ch and have an IMC. Thank goodness PCI-E 1.1 is gone:up: I agree with Logos4.

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Originally Posted by Papu

sooo just sli? or SLi and crossfire?

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It will support CF and SLI.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

It will support CF and SLI.

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so wheres the problem? people with fat wallets will get their 280@s SLI on a non Sh***y chipset , and bang for bucko's can run their cheaper Ati Parts..
its still goign to be ludicrously Expensive for a good few months , so it wont affect the market too much? , will the SLI deal run beyond X58

[QUOTE=Jimmer411;3140553]Since when was ATi dead? 2900XT? Thats about it. SLi isnt the end all to GPU sales... ;) Prices win, and $750 GPU isnt the way to do it, hence the multiple price cuts before and immediatly after launch QUOTE]

Yea I know however, ATI was able to survive this long was because of xfire on Intel chipsets. The general preference was Nvidia graphics cards up until now, but with Nvidia dropping prices...

I guess in the end this will force each company to come out with more competitive and even cheaper products as we now have a choice.

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Originally Posted by Papu

so wheres the problem? people with fat wallets will get their 280@s SLI on a non Sh***y chipset , and bang for bucko's can run their cheaper Ati Parts..
its still goign to be ludicrously for a good few months , so it wont affect the market too much? , will the SLI deal run beyond X58

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Some folks only want whats essential on their motherboards. It also sets a bad precedent!

Not just needlessly picking on nVidia. There are threads about folks not wanting built-in sound, NICs and etc..... as well.

[QUOTE=situman;3140787]

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Originally Posted by Jimmer411

Since when was ATi dead? 2900XT? Thats about it. SLi isnt the end all to GPU sales... ;) Prices win, and $750 GPU isnt the way to do it, hence the multiple price cuts before and immediatly after launch QUOTE]

Yea I know however, ATI was able to survive this long was because of xfire on Intel chipsets. The general preference was Nvidia graphics cards up until now, but with Nvidia dropping prices...

I guess in the end this will force each company to come out with more competitive and even cheaper products as we now have a choice.

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QFT!

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Interesting. Not a huge fan of having these little "SLI chips" added to the boards but then again, a single board to do SLI and CF is good in my book.

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True, if it works out like this. Won't be cheap tho.

For crying out loud NVIDIA is trying to sell balls for kidneys!!

From i975 era we know that SLi is operable on Intel platform via simple driver hacking!

Now NVIDIA is trying to sell SLi to Intel community with their "PEG tunnel chip", after has become clear that INTEL will not give them QuickPath license!

This hasn't got anything with INTEL and NVIDIA making a dill. It's up to a mainboard makers good will and business judgment.

Also NVIDIA is scared that good voice of the new ATI RV770 based cards, and the fact that they work natively in CrossFire on x58 platform will further erode their GPU market share, so they're making desperate moves, and in their own style they're spinning the story in a wrong to justify ripping of Intel oriented users by making the x58 mobos more expensive for the price ot their "magic" SLi chip!

I don't hold that against them I only wonder how some people can suck this up pretending that they don't know that SLi worked on i975 w/o any addon chip, free of charge with just a driver hack!

I don't see how this is a good thing. We are basically going to be asked to pay extra for this chip on the board when it could be quite easily done with drivers and no extra hardware to worry about.

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Originally Posted by zlojack

I don't see how this is a good thing. We are basically going to be asked to pay extra for this chip on the board when it could be quite easily done with drivers and no extra hardware to worry about.

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It's eerily similar to block pricing that cable companies use. Want NFL TV, but you have to buy all the sports channels including Fishing TV to get it.

Yet ANOTHER thing monopolies do VERY well :p:

Perkam

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

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Yes :) Welcome to Idiots-Ville, Colorado, where you buy an SLI chipset when you want to do Xfire :welcome:

Perkam

I think this says it best.

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Originally Posted by Logos4

thanks for posting about this confirmation. I've been among those not quite happy about having to pay an NVidia tax on X58 (knowing that SLI could probably work well without the NForce chip)...see recent thread about that, but well, this is probably better after all, at least a first step, allowing to avoid the purchase of a full and buggy NVidia mobo...so all in all better than the previous situation.

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This chip is similar to hardware DRM. IMHO, there's no probably to it the chip isn't needed unless nVidia changed something on the new cards to require them. That's equally sleazy.

I want open SLI... I don't want to use a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing bridge chip!

if AMD keeps releasing cards like the hd 4000 serires, pretty soon nobody will need SLi :p:

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

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no, NVidia won't make chipset anymore (at least in the beginning...); they found an agreement with Intel to integrate NForce 200 on X58 boards, which doesn't equal to an NVidia Chipset. NVidia will just provide the NForce PCIe bridge chip, nothing more. The boards equipped with it will support both CF (native on Intel mobos anyway) and SLI.

It's more NVidia that won't allow SLI to run native on X58. They're selling the NForce200 for implementation on the X58 because they like our bank accounts very much...when everyone knows that SLI would run perfectly on an Intel chipset if NVidia drivers didn't prevent it.

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Originally Posted by WRC

if AMD keeps releasing cards like the hd 4000 serires, pretty soon nobody will need SLi :p:

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you right! I'm probably going to get 2 4870x2s

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

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Hi, I wrote an editorial on the latest rumors/news last night before this news broke (complete with diagrams)...

http://www.nehalemnews.com/2008/07/r...ts-latest.html

Here are my observations on all of this...

What's perhaps most interesting is that NVIDIA will support SLI on Intel boards with the NF200 PCIe bridge/switch for Bloomfield and Lynnfield and may never actually develop a chipset for this architecture. This may be a very good thing for all concerned. While NVIDIA makes excellent graphic cards, their chipsets on Intel platforms have always been riddled with issues. Gaming or 3D benching enthusiasts who want both SLI and the stability or reduced hassle of an Intel chipset may actually be getting what they want.

NVIDIA will still make decent money from "enabling" SLI motherboards as they are rumored to be pricing the NF200 chips at a lofty $30 price point. Keep in mind that a full-fledged chipset will command around $50. So from the NVIDIA accountant's point of view, this looks very attractive... nearly $30 of pure margin from a very simple chip and no R&D costs associated with developing a new chipset.

Intel should also be happy as they won't be competing againts NVIDIA for the enthusiast chipset market and any Intel platform can effectively be enabled with SLI by the motherboard manufacturer simply by designing a variation of their board that includes the NF200 chip.

If these rumors end up being true, it looks to be a Win-Win-Win!

EDIT: However, I read this morning that X58 will cost $70 so you are looking at $100 just for chipsets on an SLI enabled board and that means these boards will be $300-$400! :shakes:

BTW, does anyone here know exactly what a NF200 chip does?

Thanks,
-Chris.

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Originally Posted by Logos4

no, NVidia won't make chipset anymore (at least in the beginning...); they found an agreement with Intel to integrate NForce 200 on X58 boards, which doesn't equal to an NVidia Chipset. NVidia will just provide the NForce PCIe bridge chip, nothing more. The boards equipped with it will support both CF (native on Intel mobos anyway) and SLI.

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yeah i get the part that they won't be making their own mobo chipset anymore (like 680i, 780/790i etc). what i'm confirming is that this is an nvidia BRIDGE chip in order to use SLI on an inte chipset right?

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

Also NVIDIA is scared that good voice of the new ATI RV770 based cards, and the fact that they work natively in CrossFire on x58 platform will further erode their GPU market share, so they're making desperate moves, and in their own style they're spinning the story in a wrong to justify ripping of Intel oriented users by making the x58 mobos more expensive for the price ot their "magic" SLi chip!

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yeah agree... this sound like a desperate move



also does this mean X58 boards iwthout the n200 SB will support SLI as well?? anyone??

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset.

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True and wrong!
1. x58 will natively support CrossFire, NOT 'cos they don't want to give nvidia ANY permission but 'cos ATI supports CrossFire on Intel chipsets w/o ANY charge!
2. Intel DOESN'T want to sell to nvidia "QuaickPath" licence so nvidia can't make SLi chipset (or any other chipset) for Nehalem.
3. In this situation only thing left for NVIDA to sell SLi on Intel chipset is to:
a) "unlock" their drivers
b) "unlock" their drivers and charge money for that by selling something touchable to mainboard makers (I guess if NVIDIA try to sell them "patch" for ForceWare, they would go mad)

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so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

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That's partially true. Only thing that you've got wrong is the fact that nForce 200 isn't a chipset... it's probably something like PCI Express bridge on 780i(a) mainboards... but only nvidia knows exactly what it its...

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yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

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someone correct me if I'm wrong but basically all of the Nehalem mainboards are finished in terms of the design/layout and manufacturers are doing polishing to be ready for the next quarter and the launch of Nehalem!

Who on Earth would do some serious redesign of this expensive mobo three months prior to CPU launch?

Can someone spot a place for nForce 200 on these mainboards:

http://www.nehalemnews.com/2008/06/s...boards-at.html

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

yeah i get the part that they won't be making their own mobo chipset anymore (like 680i, 780/790i etc). what i'm confirming is that this is an nvidia BRIDGE chip in order to use SLI on an inte chipset right?

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yes, that's correct. Read my post again, I edited it to add some info ;)

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

BTW, does anyone here know exactly what a NF200 chip does?

Thanks,
-Chris.

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Great read Chris! I'm told this bridge chip acts just like a SPD ROM chip on a stick of RAM. Hacks try to emulate it. Again, this is just speculation.

If Intel has to pay $30 for SLI, I wished they paid to have nVidia not block it in Drivers instead the Chip.

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

BTW, does anyone here know exactly what a NF200 chip does?

Thanks,
-Chris.

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that's the big question: there was never a review proving that an NForce chip was necessary for SLI to work properly, compared to how SLI would (probably) run on an Intel mobo with no implemented NForce chip - if the drivers allowed it :D The NForce chip could be a "PCIe bridge (similar to those allowing CF) + NVidia kinda have you got the CD in the drive", or a very specific NVidia PCIe bridge, absolutely necessary for SLI to run well, and that's what noone seems to know...

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

1. x58 will natively support CrossFire, NOT 'cos they don't want to give nvidia ANY permission but 'cos ATI supports CrossFire on Intel chipsets w/o ANY charge!
2. Intel DOESN'T want to sell to nvidia "QuaickPath" licence so nvidia can't make SLi chipset (or any other chipset) for Nehalem.
3. In this situation only thing left for NVIDA to sell SLi on Intel chipset is to:
a) "unlock" their drivers
b) "unlock" their drivers and charge money for that by selling something touchable to mainboard makers (I guess if NVIDIA try to sell them "patch" for ForceWare, they would go mad)

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oops sry this is what i meant lol. just worded it wrong

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

If Intel has to pay $30 for SLI, I wished they paid to have nVidia not block it in Drivers instead the Chip.

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Intel doesn't pay to nvidia nothing!

mobo manufacturers do pay, and reimburse from the customers... who are willing to donate ;)

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

Intel doesn't pay to nvidia nothing!

mobo manufacturers do pay, and reimburse from the customers... who are willing to donate ;)

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If it is an Intel branded board they do:up: Please also note, I've said many times Intel and the Board manufactures can use the chip anytime.

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Originally Posted by Neuuubeh

Not that I'd ever need an Nvidia mainboard

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i avoid them like the plague

What nVidia should do, is offer X38 and X48 board owners the chance to get SLi to. The way they could do this is charge money for a connector which also has that oh so important SPD Chip on it to, nVidia could chage £15 or even £20 for that chip and I bet it will sell well as folks with a G92 GTS could slap in another one likewise people have the choice for SLi.
John

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Originally Posted by GAR

Good news, im happy, as ive always wanted a unified motherboard to support both ATI crossfire and SLi, i wish they didnt need that chipset tho, as im sure its going to have some sli slow downs, just like the 790i kicked the 780's arse when it came to sli.

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+1.

So does this mean no tri-SLI on X58 boards either, since they're using the same old MCPs?

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Originally Posted by Omastar

So does this mean no tri-SLI on X58 boards either, since they're using the same old MCPs?

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Tri SLI is about as stable as a 3 legged ballerina, I would say it is a good job Intel do not want that on their boards....

All I see here is a way of getting video cards working with a new cpu when you can't make your own chipset to support it. I doubt Intel are involved with this as its just added in later on the boards, i remember talking to many board manufacturers who were going to do this with X38 boards, but NV looked to have killed that idea...now it looks like they need it.

SLI is an awesome platform, im just wondering when NV will develop their own CPU away from X86 with their own OS to run games, without a total platform solution the future looks to be getting harder.

AMD have a complete platform, Intel will have a complete platform soon, and both are X86
NV has chipset and GPU, but no CPU, this has me worried being honest.

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Originally Posted by WhiteFireDragon

oops sry this is what i meant lol. just worded it wrong

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No, it isn't. Any board manufacturer can buy these chips just like buying a BIOS chip for example. These are comodities and you don't need a license for them.

First, I though this was just Charlie being himself.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...5197&Itemid=37

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Intel's engineers told us a funny story that the hottest chips on their Skulltrail motherboard are Nvidia's bridge chips. Skulltrail has two of these and they tend to get extremely hot.

You need two Nforce 200 bridge chips to have all PCIe slots SLI capable and at the same time you can plug four Radeon 3870 cards inside, at least when we talk about Sapphire Atomic edition, single slot cards.

Intel engineers are far from happy with Nvidia’s behavior and the fact you need to buy these chips, too. It is not the cost that upsets the Intel chaps, it is the amount of heat that they dissipate, and it makes the already hot thing run even hotter.

We’ll see how long this friendship will last, as Intel was so happy to show us the Radeon 3870 X2 running well in its X48 based motherboard.

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They're using the 200 version. Others are saying the same thing.

oh no...:shakes: the problem is that it will probably be impossible to avoid those NForce chips on high end boards...

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Originally Posted by Logos4

oh no...:shakes: the problem is that it will probably be impossible to avoid those NForce chips on high end boards...

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Yepp and no way to disable them from what I understand.

I think this is awesome news. Having both Crossfire + SLI on the same board opens things up. If I decide to move from SLI to crossfire no need to change the board :up:

I hope they enable 3-way and that would be the perfect platform...

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Originally Posted by Blacky

I hope they enable 3-way and that would be the perfect platform...

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they do, read the article in the news on NVidia web site
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

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Originally Posted by Tony

All I see here is a way of getting video cards working with a new cpu when you can't make your own chipset to support it. I doubt Intel are involved with this as its just added in later on the boards, i remember talking to many board manufacturers who were going to do this with X38 boards, but NV looked to have killed that idea...now it looks like they need it.

SLI is an awesome platform, im just wondering when NV will develop their own CPU away from X86 with their own OS to run games, without a total platform solution the future looks to be getting harder.

AMD have a complete platform, Intel will have a complete platform soon, and both are X86
NV has chipset and GPU, but no CPU, this has me worried being honest.

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That's an interesting post. However, as many have pointed out, if NVIDIA really just wanted us to have SLI, we wouldn't need a chip on the Mobo, they could just unlock the drivers. This NF200 is a pure cash grab if you ask me. It's their way of getting another $30 of every enthusiast with little or new R&D or value add.

As for your bigger subject here, you seem to be suggesting that the gaming platform of the future will be a single vendor solution... are you implying that gaming PC's will be closed systems... basically becomming upgradable consoles?

I'm not sure I agree. AMD has all the pieces as you point out yet they aren't pushing a Crossfire only on AMD CPU's and chipset mentality like NVIDIA. In fact, they are more "open" than NVIDIA by enabling full multi-GPU functionality on their largest competitors platform. Likely this is wise because they realize that they will earn more revenue by being open than closed.

I belive NVIDIA's past thinking of keeping SLI as proprietary only to NV chipsets was flawed (however, no one can be sure without studying the economics of their chipset business).

I think now NVIDIA is smarter by effectively offering SLI on any platform with the addition of a chip. But as I said above it's only a cash grab now. With ATI building momentum, this may be more flawed thinking from NV when people realize they can save a couple hundred bucks on graphics cards and a hundred bucks or more on a motherboard for the same or better performance!

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Originally Posted by Logos4

they do, read the article in the news on NVidia web site
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

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Thanks Logo you made my day :up:

just for those who missed it: the NVidia "tax" has been widely commented in this thread:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=194314

Dreams do come true Sampsa :clap:

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Originally Posted by JohnZS

Tri SLI is about as stable as a 3 legged ballerina,

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Hah, not very stable indeed.

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Originally Posted by Tony

All I see here is a way of getting video cards working with a new cpu when you can't make your own chipset to support it. I doubt Intel are involved with this as its just added in later on the boards, i remember talking to many board manufacturers who were going to do this with X38 boards, but NV looked to have killed that idea...now it looks like they need it.

SLI is an awesome platform, im just wondering when NV will develop their own CPU away from X86 with their own OS to run games, without a total platform solution the future looks to be getting harder.

AMD have a complete platform, Intel will have a complete platform soon, and both are X86
NV has chipset and GPU, but no CPU, this has me worried being honest.

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Wasn't nvidia turning to VIA for the CPU?
I remember some sort of cooperation being announced...

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Originally Posted by Miss Banana

Wasn't nvidia turning to VIA for the CPU?
I remember some sort of cooperation being announced...

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they refuted it in an interview

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Originally Posted by Philip_J_Fry

yeah agree... this sound like a desperate move



also does this mean X58 boards iwthout the n200 SB will support SLI as well?? anyone??

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ATi slaughters GTX280 SLi with R700 (4870x2) so nVidia lat Intel do SLi, sound business sense from nVidia and Intel's busy playing divide & conquer.

Remember the competition from AMD/ATI isn't over yet. It's just beginning. Let me illustrate a few advantages in that camp.

CF (even quad and beyond) works just fine over the PCI-E bridge. No extra chips to cause trouble.
CF works with dual screens. No need to buy a Quadro to get both SLI and dual screen support.
CF quad (dual 4870x2) is likely to be the fastest graphics out there.
CF support DX 10.1 and probably will support 11 next year as well.
Intel isn't going to cripple CF. Never has, never will. So you know as long as ATI supports it, it will work. And that means less finger pointing when things don't work.
SLI may or may not work with the bridge chip at Nvidia's option. (ref the current 280 SLI NOT working on Skulltrail)
ATI is ready to go ray tracing and support Havok. So it seems they are on good terms with Intel now and into the future.
ATI doesn't charge you 30/50 or any $$ extra for making CF available.
ATI was the first to produce a board supporting displayport - meaning they are ready for now and later.


Now I just need to know the ATI equivalent of EVGA :)

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Originally Posted by initialised

ATi slaughters GTX280 SLi with R700 (4870x2) so nVidia lat Intel do SLi, sound business sense from nVidia and Intel's busy playing divide & conquer.

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Sure, but just think about what they'd do if they had the better product?:rolleyes: The gaming market if more for show than money made by the processor guys. It is very important to the Discrete Video card market. Since AMD is both, it get Free marketing, something they can always use. It puts them in good standing with all market in the Short and long term. Plus simply put, it makes them money. NO ONE trusts nVidia.

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Originally Posted by Anemone

Remember the competition from AMD/ATI isn't over yet. It's just beginning. Let me illustrate a few advantages in that camp.

CF (even quad and beyond) works just fine over the PCI-E bridge. No extra chips to cause trouble.
CF works with dual screens. No need to buy a Quadro to get both SLI and dual screen support.
CF quad (dual 4870x2) is likely to be the fastest graphics out there.
CF support DX 10.1 and probably will support 11 next year as well.
Intel isn't going to cripple CF. Never has, never will. So you know as long as ATI supports it, it will work. And that means less finger pointing when things don't work.
SLI may or may not work with the bridge chip at Nvidia's option. (ref the current 280 SLI NOT working on Skulltrail)
ATI is ready to go ray tracing and support Havok. So it seems they are on good terms with Intel now and into the future.
ATI doesn't charge you 30/50 or any $$ extra for making CF available.
ATI was the first to produce a board supporting displayport - meaning they are ready for now and later.

Now I just need to know the ATI equivalent of EVGA :)

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QFT and well said. Visiontek and MSI but I don't overclock video cards very much any more.

I always thought it would happen. They were just playing games, putting pressure, until the right offer was made. Money obviously speaks louder than rivalries.

so even if i buy a x58 board, it'll still have a nvidia chipset on it whether i want to SLI or not?

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Originally Posted by JohnZS

Tri SLI is about as stable as a 3 legged ballerina, I would say it is a good job Intel do not want that on their boards....

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More in the interests of benchers than gamers. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by ap4lifetn

so even if i buy a x58 board, it'll still have a nvidia chipset on it whether i want to SLI or not?

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Well, let's hope that ASUS reads or hears about our petition: NO NFARCE CHIPSET ON AN SLI INTEL BOARD (X58). Capiche?

Knowing ASUS, they might just come up with something which will not allow such horrible product to be combined with an Intel Core Logic.

heh, looking forward to a non nvidia chipset!!!! stupid 650i

a big lash for ATi ........ but having opening the source for Intel is a wise move to compete with ATi
but to think again ....... wont it be bit toooo late for that?

considering they might scrap that sli plans ...

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Originally Posted by JohnZS

Tri SLI is about as stable as a 3 legged ballerina, I would say it is a good job Intel do not want that on their boards....

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I dunno, Id venture to say a Tripod is more stable then a Bipod :P

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Originally Posted by Anemone

Remember the competition from AMD/ATI isn't over yet. It's just beginning. Let me illustrate a few advantages in that camp.

CF (even quad and beyond) works just fine over the PCI-E bridge. No extra chips to cause trouble.
CF works with dual screens. No need to buy a Quadro to get both SLI and dual screen support.
CF quad (dual 4870x2) is likely to be the fastest graphics out there.
CF support DX 10.1 and probably will support 11 next year as well.
Intel isn't going to cripple CF. Never has, never will. So you know as long as ATI supports it, it will work. And that means less finger pointing when things don't work.
SLI may or may not work with the bridge chip at Nvidia's option. (ref the current 280 SLI NOT working on Skulltrail)
ATI is ready to go ray tracing and support Havok. So it seems they are on good terms with Intel now and into the future.
ATI doesn't charge you 30/50 or any $$ extra for making CF available.
ATI was the first to produce a board supporting displayport - meaning they are ready for now and later.


Now I just need to know the ATI equivalent of EVGA :)

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I agreed most of your points except one thing, XF sucks after having more than 2 GPUS which means two X2 on XF sucks in most of the cases as well :(...

sounds good.

expensive, but good.

Looks like ATI nor nVidia will have to worry, HYDRA is here.




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If you take this in consideration:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=8434&Itemid=1

And the fact that none of x58 mainboards displayed last month on Computex didn't have this nForce200 chip, how many x58 mainboards do you expect to have with SLi support?

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

If you take this in consideration:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=8434&Itemid=1

And the fact that none of x58 mainboards displayed last month on Computex didn't have this nForce200 chip, how many x58 mainboards do you expect to have with SLi support?

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we know it's too late for the first X58 boards, as their design is frozen by now. The next wave of mobos later in 2009 will have those NF chips.

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Originally Posted by Nedjo

If you take this in consideration:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=8434&Itemid=1

And the fact that none of x58 mainboards displayed last month on Computex didn't have this nForce200 chip, how many x58 mainboards do you expect to have with SLi support?

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Thats why INTEL invested in a company called Lucid, who has 50 patents on it's HYDRA chipset that eliminates known problems with multiple GPUs. Some insightful information was released to the public yesterday and I cannot believe that thread isn't 20 pages long by now. Specially considering who the people are that is developing it.

http://www.lucidlogix.com/images/logo_hydra.gif
HYDRA ftw.



Discussion in our forums HERE




.

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Originally Posted by Logos4

we know it's too late for the first X58 boards, as their design is frozen by now. The next wave of mobos later in 2009 will have those NF chips.

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Thank goodness for this. I'm buying early, no green icky chips are coming near my board.

Still the question begs why, if AMD/ATI can do it, why can't Nvidia do SLI without this chip? I think we "know" the answer, but it is amusing nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Anemone

Still the question begs why, if AMD/ATI can do it, why can't Nvidia do SLI without this chip? I think we "know" the answer, but it is amusing nonetheless.

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they'd just have to unlock the drivers...but they don't want to...hence the chip..I know you know it, from reading your previous posts...why asking again ?

(oh this chip, or a previous version, was also used...IS still being used on 780, 790 sli boards to prevent CrossFire from running...nice people we got there :D and I pity them for having to remove that lock on the chips for X58 :D )

Even more shocking is during nVidia vs. Intel spat in the "Whoopass" thread, many AMD fans took nVidia's side. This even as they worked against AMD. It seems AMD and Intel's battle has cooled down a lot. I think they know they need eachother more than ever. IMHO, nVidia must be thinking the same thing now.

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Originally Posted by Anemone

Still the question begs why, if AMD/ATI can do it, why can't Nvidia do SLI without this chip? I think we "know" the answer, but it is amusing nonetheless.

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Because nVidia are a bunch of Greedy Bass-terds;)

I think NVidia should definitely stop taking themselves for an X86 company :D

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Originally Posted by Logos4

I think NVidia should definitely stop taking themselves for an X86 company :D

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Yepp:yepp:

it's funny, cos if i were nVidia i'd pay intel to build SLI support into their chipsets

I would have guessed, how else are they gonna have sells after the 4870 X2 :rofl: