firingsquad: First Test 9800GTX+(G92b/55nm)

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06-19-2008, 03:30 PM
Gorguls

firingsquad: First Test 9800GTX+(G92b/55nm)

Radeon HD 4850 512MB and GeForce 9800 GTX+(G92B/55nm) Performance Quick Take

Quote:

As its name implies, the GeForce 9800 GTX+ is an improved version of the original GeForce 9800 GTX. The GPU itself is based on TSMC’s smaller 55-nm manufacturing process, and the 9800 GTX+ runs at higher clock speeds than the GeForce 9800 GTX: 738MHz on the graphics core versus the original 9800 GTX’s 675MHz. Meanwhile, the stream processors run at 1836MHz, an improvement of 148MHz over the 9800 GTX. The memory clock speed remains unchanged at 1.1GHz.

http://s4.directupload.net/images/080620/ziu773x6.gif

http://s7.directupload.net/images/080620/7g8mzb4m.gif

http://s7.directupload.net/images/080620/dh2wzkr3.gif

http://s4.directupload.net/images/080620/hgh5vrbz.gif

http://s1.directupload.net/images/080620/ts6x5ew4.gif

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...rce_9800_gtx+/
06-19-2008, 03:38 PM
eleeter

FiringSquad may as well be NvidiaSquad. Best to ignore.
06-19-2008, 03:39 PM
perkam

Someone post the images before they take them down !!

I hope I'm VERY wrong about the 65nm thing, but the review doesn't disavow the Tech Report article :(

Perkam
06-19-2008, 03:43 PM
informal

Gorguls you sure did pick the worst slides for 4850 to show here lol :D.
Anyhow,the conclusion tells it all:

Quote:

This battle is a neck-and-neck race. In games like Quake Wars, F.E.A.R., and Call of Duty 4, our testing gave the edge to the 4850. But in Lost Planet DX10 and BioShock DX10 the GeForce 9800 GTX ran faster than the 4850 (in Company of Heroes, the 4850 and 9800 GTX traded wins). Meanwhile Crysis, HL2 Episode Two, and Oblivion were too close to call. Depending on which games you play (and perhaps certain levels in the same game) the edge could go to AMD or NVIDIA in our preliminary testing.

So we have a situation where factory OCed 9800GTX+ and a stock clocked Radeon 4850 are in neck-to-neck race.
Now somebody tell me,who's gonna stop AMD's partners like ASUS to do the HD4850TOP OC version and blow this 9800GTX+ out of the water?All they gotta do is raise the core clock and memory clock 5-10% and they are done.
06-19-2008, 03:47 PM
revogamer

If you read anandtechs review of the 4850, it scores higher in all those games?
06-19-2008, 03:47 PM
STaRGaZeR

What about the EVGA 9900GTXXX+++ SSSC FTW Edition? :confused:
06-19-2008, 03:48 PM
perkam

I can confirm that those numbers are off. The 4850 scores are voluntarily kept low in 4xAA 16xAF benchmarks.

Please wait for cards to reach reviewers before making judjements.

Perkam
06-19-2008, 03:50 PM
informal

Perkam,so the firingsquad's review has a flaw?Or did i misunderstood you?
06-19-2008, 03:54 PM
y2kbos

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Gorguls you sure did pick the worst slides for 4850 to show here lol :D.
Anyhow,the conclusion tells it all:

So we have a situation where factory OCed 9800GTX+ and a stock clocked Radeon 4850 are in neck-to-neck race.
Now somebody tell me,who's gonna stop AMD's partners like ASUS to do the HD4850TOP OC version and blow this 9800GTX+ out of the water?All they gotta do is raise the core clock and memory clock 5-10% and they are done.

Your assuming the 9800gtx+ cant be overclocked anymore?

For all we now, they can be clocked higher than the HD4850, literally blowing them out of the water :p:
06-19-2008, 03:54 PM
gojirasan

Quote:

The GeForce 9800 GTX+ is what the original 9800 GTX should have been in our opinion. The 9800 GTX runs about 8 or 9% faster than the 9800 GTX, which still isn’t always enough to overtake the 8800 Ultra, but it’s definitely an improvement. The disappointing part about the 9800 GTX+ is that these cards won’t hit shelves until sometime in July.

Finally someone in the online media who really gets it. Very well put. Although it still barely deserves "9800GTX".

I don't recall firingsquad being Nvidia biased. Do you have anything to back that up eleeter? Nevertheless the 4850 seemed to be faring less well than in some other reviews. What is it with benchmarks nowadays? I remember in the old days almost all the review sites agreed (especially back when tomshardware was the only one). These days the benchmarks at different sites seem to be so different that I don't know what to think.
06-19-2008, 03:57 PM
ghost101

Are the 8.6 drivers worse than the official 8.6 drivers? Theyre still using the beta ones.
06-19-2008, 03:57 PM
Eastcoasthandle

Unmarked nvidia cards (IE Manufacturer)?? We have no idea who manufactured those cards nor do we know what the clock rate of those cards are. If we knew the manufacture of the cards used we could find out if they are OC'd cards or not. However, that information is not made available.
06-19-2008, 04:00 PM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kbos

Your assuming the 9800gtx+ cant be overclocked anymore?

For all we now, they can be clocked higher than the HD4850, literally blowing them out of the water :p:

You still haven't realized the damage the poor 150 euro Radeon card is going to make,have you ? :p:
Just sit back, relax and watch partners bring out the OCed versions in July.It will be fun watching GTX260 in a number of tests fighting and loosing to a ~180e card :D.
06-19-2008, 04:00 PM
ghost101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Unmarked nvidia cards (IE Manufacturer)?? We have no idea who manufactured those cards nor do we know what the clock rate of those cards are. If we knew the manufacture of the cards used we could find out if they are OC'd cards or not. However, that information is not made available.

I think they are bog standard 9800gtx+ cards. The first page has a short paragraph on clock speeds and they sort of imply thats the card therye using.
06-19-2008, 04:03 PM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghost101

I think they are bog standard 9800gtx+ cards. The first page has a short paragraph on clock speeds and they sort of imply thats the card therye using.

Thanks but that's no good for me, I want to know who manufactured them, etc.
06-19-2008, 04:05 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Thanks but that's no good for me, I want to know who manufactured them, etc.

Why don't you ask them, then? :rolleyes:
06-19-2008, 04:10 PM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

Why don't you ask them, then? :rolleyes:

My thinking is that it should be made publicity available in the review moreso then having to email them and ask. :yepp:
Besides, this is my opinion on the review.
06-19-2008, 04:12 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

My thinking is that it should be made publicity available in the review moreso then having to email them and ask. :yepp:
Besides, this is my opinion on the review.

I just think they OCed a 9800GTX and called it 9800GTX+.
06-19-2008, 04:20 PM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

I just think they OCed a 9800GTX and called it 9800GTX+.

who did? Nvidia or the review site? :rofl: :ROTF: :clap: :yepp:
06-19-2008, 04:20 PM
mascaras

Quote:

NVIDIA Gently Intros GeForce 9800 GTX+

AMD today took a major point for the red team by positioning its brand new ATI Radeon HD 4850 cards between NVIDIA's GeForce 9 series and GTX 200 series cards. The all new HD 4850 cards beat NVIDIA's GeForce 9800 GTX while also maintaining the very reasonable MSRP of $199. Currently NVIDIA has no card that can compete in this category, but that's eventually going to change in mid-July, when the company will announce a new mid-range video card dubbed GeForce 9800 GTX+. The card will be idential to GeForce 9800 GTX from the outside, but from the "inside" it will use a smaller and more efficient 55 nanometer GPU with increased default clock/shader speeds: from 675MHz to 738MHz and from 1688MHz to 1836MHz respectively. Memory speeds for this card will be dropped slightly to 1GHz (1100MHz for GeForce 9800 GTX). Other than that the card is virtually the same as GeForce 9800 GTX, the three-way SLI support also remains untouched. NVIDIA expects to start offering GeForce 9800 GTX+ with a MSRP of $229. The company also plans to drop the price of the 65nm GeForce 9800 GTX to $199.

First card is Leadtek 9800GTX, second one is GeForce 9800 GTX+
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-06-19/5_thm.jpg http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-06-19/6_thm.jpg http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-06-19/10_thm.jpg

bit-tech.net

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpo...89&postcount=1

regards
06-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Luka_Aveiro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

who did? Nvidia or the review site? :rofl: :ROTF: :clap: :yepp:

:rofl::rofl::ROTF::ROTF::ROTF: :p::p::p:

:up:
06-19-2008, 04:24 PM
eric66

well there numbers are weird even normal 9800gtx is faster than 4850 according to other sites 4850 was the faster one
06-19-2008, 04:25 PM
spicypixel

reducing memory speed eh? surely starving the chip or more bandwidth...
06-19-2008, 04:25 PM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

You still haven't realized the damage the poor 150 euro Radeon card is going to make,have you ? :p:
Just sit back, relax and watch partners bring out the OCed versions in July.It will be fun watching GTX260 in a number of tests fighting and loosing to a ~180e card :D.

His point still remains. I thought I mentioned this to you (someone) in another thread. You can still o/c the 9800gtx+ more. Who knows though if the roof is a little lower. Since they say its on the 55nm process, one would THINK it has the POTENTIAL to o/c more.

Quote:

As its name implies, the GeForce 9800 GTX+ is an improved version of the original GeForce 9800 GTX. The GPU itself is based on TSMC’s smaller 55-nm manufacturing process,
06-19-2008, 04:32 PM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorguls

Radeon HD 4850 512MB and GeForce 9800 GTX+(G92B/55nm) Performance Quick Take

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...rce_9800_gtx+/

hmmm

They're very inconsistent with their bench settings....

switching from 1600 to 2560 res,
2xAA in one game, 4xAA in the other then 0

A cynic may say they are just cherry picking the results.
Focusing on those which show the biggest gap between the 9800GTX+ and the 4850 in nVidia's favour.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleeter

FiringSquad may as well be NvidiaSquad. Best to ignore.

...indeed
06-19-2008, 04:50 PM
Kingcarcas

Missed the most important "bench" for me, dual 6-pin connectors, how much juice is this puppy taking? Also it still looks like Nvidia will get pwned $229<$189.
06-19-2008, 04:54 PM
cegras

Ever since the 8800 GT, Nvidia has been slapping everyone who buys their products in the face. Every few months they devalue their products and price a better one at the price you originally bought an inferior product with. 9600, 9800, now the 9800+, and the GTX 280 for those who bought the GX2.
06-19-2008, 05:04 PM
Sparky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

hmmm

They're very inconsistent with their bench settings....

switching from 1600 to 2560 res,
2xAA in one game, 4xAA in the other then 0

A cynic may say they are just cherry picking the results.
Focusing on those which show the biggest gap between the 9800GTX+ and the 4850 in nVidia's favour....

Agreed. Quite lame and hardly the way to run any sort of comparisons :down:
06-19-2008, 05:07 PM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by cegras

Ever since the 8800 GT, Nvidia has been slapping everyone who buys their products in the face. Every few months they devalue their products and price a better one at the price you originally bought an inferior product with. 9600, 9800, now the 9800+, and the GTX 280 for those who bought the GX2.

Welcome to all videocards. Let me show you...and correct you.

Nivida: 8800GTS-->9800gtx-->9800gtx+
(the correction was the the 9600gt is SLOWER than the 8800gt)

ATI: 2900xt-->3870-->4850

Explain to me how this is ONLY nvidia doing the slapping? And is it really slapping when its a mostly natural product lifecycle? :shrug:
06-19-2008, 05:12 PM
eric66

i don't think 9800gtx+ was natural :)
06-19-2008, 05:15 PM
jas420221

Here let me make this a little more readable for you....

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas420221

Explain to me how this is ONLY nvidia doing the slapping? And is it really slapping when its a mostly natural product lifecycle? :shrug:

IMHO, and of course there are 2 sides to every story, this is SMART business. One could say they are testing that 55nm process for the eventual shrink on GTX280. One can also say Nvidia paniced and brought this out earlier than expected to steal ATI's thunder in that price segment. Whats right, who knows. I can only say Nvidia's business practices as far as profit and running a business are spot on. Why not do this? To NOT piss off a bunch of whiney kids on forums about naming conventions? PUH LEASE people, get a grip, take a step back and look at the big picture. How does this in any way HURT the consumer? Competition is bad suddenly? You are going to complain that the 9800GTX which is ~8-10% slower than the + dropped (or will) almost 33%? Are you also going to complain that with this competition it may drive the 4850 down in price a couple dollars also??

It seems these companies just cant win with a lot fo you people!!
06-19-2008, 06:41 PM
disruptfam

from what i've seen 4850 is beating out the 9800gtx in most games
06-19-2008, 09:11 PM
ANP !!!

So a 9800GTX+ is just a OCed 9800GTX, then why not OC the 4850 and compare them.
06-19-2008, 09:25 PM
Skratch

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANP !!!

So a 9800GTX+ is just a OCed 9800GTX, then why not OC the 4850 and compare them.

not exactly,the 9800gtx is a 65nm chip and the gtx+ is a 55nm chip.You can over clock the gtx+ further after you buy it,its not a super clocked 65nm chip.It should have decent headroom for more overclocking.

55nm>65nm
06-19-2008, 09:26 PM
mrcape

I got a simple answer to the speculation. Wait a week until some average Joe benchmark addicts, who only care about scores and not brands get the cards and post real reviews on forums.

The guys who pay for parts don't need to butter any muffins.
06-19-2008, 09:45 PM
nut311

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleeter

FiringSquad may as well be NvidiaSquad. Best to ignore.

hahahaha...where ATISQUAD Site .....
06-20-2008, 06:07 AM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by nut311

hahahaha...where ATISQUAD Site .....

That would be Rage3D. But thank god they cant get a solid card reviewer going to save their lives (thank god). :rofl:
06-20-2008, 06:23 AM
Xello

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas420221

That would be Rage3D. But thank god they cant get a solid card reviewer going to save their lives (thank god). :rofl:

Doesn't an SLIzone moderator review for them?
06-20-2008, 07:07 AM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xello

Doesn't an SLIzone moderator review for them?

ChrisRay? I dont think he does reviews for them. I dont know, I havent been to that site in months (as far as they know LOL) b/c I was "perma banned" for lashing out to fanboys and the sub par biased mod team there.
06-20-2008, 09:43 AM
fragmasterMax

someone needs to slap the $hit out of firingsquad for not posting overclocking results. After all, other than better oc'ing (i'm assuming) it's nothing more than a 9800gtx clocked at 730/19??, which as we all know is very old news.
06-20-2008, 10:17 AM
Punisher!

Interesting!
06-20-2008, 10:25 AM
perkam

Very nice results from Nvidia.

Some of the review sites are saying July for availability. Hopefully they come here before then.

As for the $229 thing. The regular 4850 is $199, and yes, there WILL be a $229 4850. The one from HIS will be specially interesting. :D

Perkam
06-25-2008, 03:26 PM
grimREEFER

well, these cards apparently are hitting 840-850mhz core, its certainly quite speedy for its price at that frequency.the 4850 apparently tops out at 680-700mhz core, hard to say which card is ultimately faster, the amd cards definitely do more work per clock.
06-25-2008, 03:46 PM
Starscream

Shouldnt in some time the 55nm core also apear on the normal GTX?

Nvidia would be dumb to make both the 65nm and 55nm as the 55 is cheaper to produce and should also be cheaper to buy for the manufacturers.
06-25-2008, 04:17 PM
ToTTenTranz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skratch

not exactly,the 9800gtx is a 65nm chip and the gtx+ is a 55nm chip.You can over clock the gtx+ further after you buy it,its not a super clocked 65nm chip.

Although probable, that isn't certain nor proven.
06-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Nasgul

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz

Although probable, that isn't certain nor proven.

Right!

The die shrink seems like it's not going to improve anything to maybe some 10W in power saving.

As is, my GTX clocks at 800 w/o any artifacts and the mem at 2400......so kinda not seeing the point in getting one of those GTX+, except for the market gimmick. Looks just like a competition for the rival's new upcoming card.

Oh well!
06-25-2008, 04:44 PM
vengance_01

Why buy a 9800GTX+ when you can get a 8800GTS and run at 9800GTX+ speeds :rofl: Good one nvidia. I can get 750/1900/2100 on stock vcore with my evga 8800GTS.
06-25-2008, 04:53 PM
Zaskar

Quote:

Originally Posted by vengance_01

Why buy a 9800GTX+ when you can get a 8800GTS and run at 9800GTX+ speeds :rofl: Good one nvidia. I can get 750/1900/2100 on stock vcore with my evga 8800GTS.

That doesn't make sense unless the GTX+ for some reason cant overclock.
06-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Dark-Energy

Well this topic is 5 days old, and quite frankly, I don't trust NvidiaSquad.

ATI already has a 4850+ OCed version to counter this, and it's scheduled to come out around the same time.
06-25-2008, 05:05 PM
grimREEFER

Quote:

Originally Posted by vengance_01

Why buy a 9800GTX+ when you can get a 8800GTS and run at 9800GTX+ speeds :rofl: Good one nvidia. I can get 750/1900/2100 on stock vcore with my evga 8800GTS.

legit reviews got their card to 855/2200/2550 on stock volts and cooling...so, yea, thats why you would buy a 9800gtx+ lol.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/16/
06-25-2008, 05:26 PM
happychappy

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimREEFER

legit reviews got their card to 855/2200/2550 on stock volts and cooling...so, yea, thats why you would buy a 9800gtx+ lol.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/16/

The 9800GTX+ might be able to overclock even higher than that
06-25-2008, 05:28 PM
grimREEFER

well, that WAS a 9800gtx+
06-25-2008, 05:34 PM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimREEFER

well, that WAS a 9800gtx+

Yah but he's talkin bout the 9800GTX+

:rolleyes:
06-25-2008, 05:50 PM
Aberration

Are you sure its not a 9800GTX+?
06-25-2008, 05:53 PM
Nasgul

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimREEFER

legit reviews got their card to 855/2200/2550 on stock volts and cooling...so, yea, thats why you would buy a 9800gtx+ lol.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/16/

:owned:

Indeed, that's the reason why buy a G92 9-series card.

___________________

Was not aware they would OC that high, so nice little improvement after all. Would be a great upgrade for those with 6 or 7 series nVidia video cards. :clap:
06-25-2008, 06:03 PM
BobyTT

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Very nice results from Nvidia.

Some of the review sites are saying July for availability. Hopefully they come here before then.

As for the $229 thing. The regular 4850 is $199, and yes, there WILL be a $229 4850. The one from HIS will be specially interesting. :D

Perkam

perkam. I remember a while ago , you made one graphic for different price range computers. I think it was great , and i want to ask you if you are not
busy with something may be is time to make another one?
06-25-2008, 06:04 PM
Beefy22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vengance_01

Why buy a 9800GTX+ when you can get a 8800GTS and run at 9800GTX+ speeds :rofl: Good one nvidia. I can get 750/1900/2100 on stock vcore with my evga 8800GTS.

I'm folding right now @ 810/2052/2200 on stock vcore/cooling... What's your point? The 8800GTS has been officially EOL for sometime now and will probably be gone from the market entirely in the near future. The 9800GTX+ @ $229(MSRP) is a better buy, 850+/2200+/2400+. With shader clocks like that it should be a monster folder.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4...3oc2ih8.th.jpg

-EDIT-

I will say that the Zotac 8800GTS for $147 after $40MIR at fxvideocards is still a fairly good price, probably a better deal than the 9800GTX+ for $229... Zotac even offers a lifetime warranty with registration new.

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