Updates Concerning the Xigmatek Achillies

Ok well heres the deal, unfortunately the Achillies coolers that were sent out for review are not finalized products, they were for show purposes only. The finalized product will have minor changes in design to it, changes unfortunately i cannot inform you about at this time. However Xigmatek assures me that as soon as the information is available on the changes that are being made, they will forward it to me to pass it along to you guys. Expect to hear this information after Computex. :up:

What does this mean? Try not to use the current reviews you see as the basis of your decision on how well the Achillies performs. I myself am anticipating better performance from the finalized models as Xigmatek takes a great deal of time and effort into ensuring that their designs work well. So if you had high hopes of the achillies you can keep those hopes high because there is still alot more to see from this awesome looking cooler.

When are they going to relese achilles to the stores?

why the PR so long before release? it's a freaking air cooler. fix the gaps on the base, put the heatpipes closer together, and put the stupid thing on shelves.

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Originally Posted by fng77

When are they going to relese achilles to the stores?

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approximately 6 weeks is what im hearing

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Originally Posted by [XC] itznfb

why the PR so long before release? it's a freaking air cooler. fix the gaps on the base, put the heatpipes closer together, and put the stupid thing on shelves.

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ah you know how these things are, secrecy and all that :p:

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

ah you know how these things are, secrecy and all that :p:

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blah! shelves! now!
:p:

i'm guessing it will be a similar price point as current xigmatek products? i hope they don't start going with high end prices now that they know they compete in the high end market.

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Originally Posted by [XC] itznfb

blah! shelves! now!
:p:

i'm guessing it will be a similar price point as current xigmatek products? i hope they don't start going with high end prices now that they know they compete in the high end market.

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i imagine it will be priced similarly to the red scorpion

I would be a bit surprised that Xigmatek would release a version of an upcoming cooler for review that would be markedly different to final product.

I could understand the changing of the original push pin fixing mechanism to a bolt through as a reasonable, minor modification between pre release and the retail version.

But to change the thickness of the aluminium gap between the copper heat pipes is a major redesign and not something that would be made at "the 11th hour".

As you can see from the picture below, this design is more suited to a bigger die CPU.

Could it be that Xigmatek is building these coolers for the next generation x8 core CPUs?

Just a thought: If Xigmatek supplied a flat, wafer thin piece of copper, the full size of the cooler/CPU surface, to sandwich between a (say E8400) CPU and their S1284 cooler, how effective would the S1284 cooler be?

I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

Regards,

David

Problem is the achillies was never ever supposed to be released for review, it was a mistake on the part of a distributor to issue samples. I am quite confident that the issues with the base are being addressed. You just have to trust me until i can get the actual release for the list of changes after Computex. Until then keep your hopes up about the performance of this thing, as i will have a sample of the finalized design headed my way for review, and ill be pitting it against a TRUE, HDT S1283 and the Red Scorpion S1283.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

Problem is the achillies was never ever supposed to be released for review, it was a mistake on the part of a distributor to issue samples. I am quite confident that the issues with the base are being addressed. You just have to trust me until i can get the actual release for the list of changes after Computex. Until then keep your hopes up about the performance of this thing, as i will have a sample of the finalized design headed my way for review, and ill be pitting it against a TRUE, HDT S1283 and the Red Scorpion S1283.

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This is all incorrect information. The Achilles was released for review directly from Xigmatek marketing. There wasn't a single complaint from Xigmatek until the reviews exposed a design error.

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Originally Posted by Das Capitolin

This is all incorrect information. The Achilles was released for review directly from Xigmatek marketing. There wasn't a single complaint from Xigmatek until the reviews exposed a design error.

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All of the information i have posted here, on the site, and everywhere else came directly from the mouth of Xigmatek themselves, so get your facts straight or get out. Your becoming an incredible nuisance thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

All of the information i have posted here, on the site, and everywhere else came directly from the mouth of Xigmatek themselves, so get your facts straight or get out. Your becoming an incredible nuisance thats for sure.

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It is not fair to call him an incredible nuisance becasue he has other info than you.

They told you that, I dont know why, I find it hard to belive that the samples just came out thats slow and they never had any time to stop it.

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Originally Posted by Nosfer@tu

It is not fair to call him an incredible nuisance becasue he has other info than you.

They told you that, I dont know why, I find it hard to belive that the samples just came out thats slow and they never had any time to stop it.

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they sent him the same information, he fails to mention that
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...1&limitstart=6

and im not even gona comment about the last part because everyone already knows his propensity for starting trouble on forums, hes already perma banned on OCF.

Calm down guys....I really have one concern though...the heatpipe lay out looks like it has higher restrict air flow than the regular XT HDT lay out. will it need a higher CFM fan to make it shine just like TRUE? looking at the contacted area, is actually more heatpipe over the core area right?

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Originally Posted by poohball

Calm down guys....I really have one concern though...the heatpipe lay out looks like it has higher restrict air flow than the regular XT HDT lay out. will it need a higher CFM fan to make it shine just like TRUE? looking at the contacted area, is actually more heatpipe over the core area right?

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the designs that were accidentally sent out were not fully tweaked, so no, the heatpipes actually extend well over the suface area of the CPU, which presents a problem for efficiency, which has already been addressed by xigmatek apparently. Now they tell me that the design that is going to hit store shelves, as well as the sample i will get after computex, will be the finished product, with all the adjustments in design. What those adjustments are EXACTLY i cant say for sure, but i know they are aware of all of the situations as mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

they sent him the same information, he fails to mention that
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...1&limitstart=6

and im not even gona comment about the last part because everyone already knows his propensity for starting trouble on forums, hes already perma banned on OCF.

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Yes, you threw the same fit over there and got me banned. You seem very delighted in yourself for this accomplishment, which is shameful considering how you operate a website yourself. It's a sad day when a person is excited by the fact that he got someone else banned for linking to his own article.

Additionally, you didn't receive a review sample, your site hasn't reviewed the Achilles, and Xigmatek has made no official statement anywhere other then on Benchmark Reviews. So to say that my information is not credible... well, it only make you look bad because you stole the information from me. I have an email directly from Xigmatek, and all you have is a reference to my website.

This is a lot like the announcement you thought you were going to make last Friday, but never did, just like I said you wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Das Capitolin

Yes, you threw the same fit over there and got me banned. You seem very delighted in yourself for this accomplishment, which is shameful considering how you operate a website yourself. It's a sad day when a person is excited by the fact that he got someone else banned for linking to his own article.

Additionally, you didn't receive a review sample, your site hasn't reviewed the Achilles, and Xigmatek has made no official statement anywhere other then on Benchmark Reviews. So to say that my information is not credible... well, it only make you look bad because you stole the information from me. I have an email directly from Xigmatek, and all you have is a reference to my website.

This is a lot like the announcement you thought you were going to make last Friday, but never did, just like I said you wouldn't.

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I said it before and ill say it again, you got yourself banned on OCF. Saying that i had something to do with it is like saying that i own this site. If you want the exact reason that the administrators banned you, you should go have a word with them, because i dont know the reason. But probable cause suggestions that it has something to do with the fact that you were posting links to your site all over their forums which is completely against the user agreement you signed onto when you registered.

As far as the actually subject of the thread goes, i didnt receive a review sample because they arent being released for reviews, as i will continue to say AGAIN AGAIN which you refuse to believe even though xigmatek has contacted you directly about it. As much as you love to flaunt the fact that the distributor's that sent you the review sample violated NDA, it doesnt change the fact that the sample you have is completely useless as a reference point of its cooling, because its not a finished product, its a display model sample.

As far as saying that i somehow STOLE the information from you, i dont know where you are getting that from because they called me directly from germany on friday as was expected and gave me this information directly, to post for people who are interested in the product. As far as me referencing to your site? I cant even imagine why you would think i would do that? I dont have an interest in reading the crap you post over on butcheredreviews.com anyway.

Now stop trying to derail my thread into somthing personal, the original post i made is what this topic is about.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

As far as the actually subject of the thread goes, i didnt receive a review sample because they arent being released for reviews, as i will continue to say AGAIN AGAIN which you refuse to believe even though xigmatek has contacted you directly about it. As much as you love to flaunt the fact that the distributor's that sent you the review sample violated NDA, it doesnt change the fact that the sample you have is completely useless as a reference point of its cooling, because its not a finished product, its a display model sample.

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:rofl: Yeah, I guess you opened the package on my behalf. The Achilles was shipped directly from my Xigmatek contact, and was one of four sent out to review sites. Nice try, have a nice day.

Instead of trying to be "best buddies" with the manufacturer, you might try doing the readers a favor and report more truth and less opinion. I received the Achilles in the same fashion that I received the last six shipments from Xigmatek, and my discussion with them was "ok, here it is" all the way until the day after my review came out. You seem to think that it was a big conspiracy to get a pre-mature testing of a product... but did you ever stop to think that maybe this was in fact the final product, and that you are just buying into what they want you to repeat?

Come on, you need to stop and take stock in the matter at hand. A manufacturer released samples to websites for testing. These samples were completely finished-out products, with full retail packaging, instructions, etc. These sites test the product, and the day after the reviews come out there's a statement made by Xigmatek's marketing manager.

Now I'm not choosing a side, nor do I care to lend my name to one opinion or another. They made an official statement by sending Benchmark Reviews an email, and it was posted. I didn't add my comments, and I didn't run to someone else's forum to dispute the results or make claims (like you did). At the end of all this, we have a product that is probably going to be re-designed to account for the errors in the first version. Will my review be reliable? Sure, for Achilles 1.0, but 1.1 will be a new product with the same name. It will get retested, and it will get updated results.

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Originally Posted by Das Capitolin

:rofl: Yeah, I guess you opened the package on my behalf. The Achilles was shipped directly from my Xigmatek contact, and was one of four sent out to review sites. Nice try, have a nice day.

Instead of trying to be "best buddies" with the manufacturer, you might try doing the readers a favor and report more truth and less opinion. I received the Achilles in the same fashion that I received the last six shipments from Xigmatek, and my discussion with them was "ok, here it is" all the way until the day after my review came out. You seem to think that it was a big conspiracy to get a pre-mature testing of a product... but did you ever stop to think that maybe this was in fact the final product, and that you are just buying into what they want you to repeat?

Come on, you need to stop and take stock in the matter at hand. A manufacturer released samples to websites for testing. These samples were completely finished-out products, with full retail packaging, instructions, etc. These sites test the product, and the day after the reviews come out there's a statement made by Xigmatek's marketing manager.

Now I'm not choosing a side, nor do I care to lend my name to one opinion or another. They made an official statement by sending Benchmark Reviews an email, and it was posted. I didn't add my comments, and I didn't run to someone else's forum to dispute the results or make claims (like you did). At the end of all this, we have a product that is probably going to be re-designed to account for the errors in the first version. Will my review be reliable? Sure, for Achilles 1.0, but 1.1 will be a new product with the same name. It will get retested, and it will get updated results.

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Ill tell you what, ill do you a favor, im going to contact the admins about you directly, this way should somthing happen to you here, like getting banned, or getting and infraction or so forth, you can go ahead and say. "You were the cause of blahblah" since your so hell bent on spreading mistruths here for the sake of making yourself look good.

You have made a complete ass out of yourself on here a few weeks ago when people said your reviews were horrible, including myself, you made an ass of yourself on OCF that wound up getting you banned, and the comments from people on slashdot regarding your "DDR3 Explained" post which was blatantly plagiarized from wikipedia among other sources, with the exception of the fact that you changed an I and "is" "or" in a few places like a 5th grader turning in an essay that they did the night before, tore your post to shreds. Its no wonder your hell bent on making yourself look good.

Im not gona repeat it again, the information i posted came directly from Xigmatek in germany regarding the subject of the reviews on the Achillies. Its all there to read in black and white, if you want my telephone bill showing the call and the 8 minute conversation we had, your welcome to a copy. Your sample of the product, along with several other sites, was the subject of a mistake by the part of the distributor (aka whoever gave it to the reviewer). Obviously your distributor within Xigmatek so you say, was not as well informed as the people i spoke too.

No i will repeat, stop derailing the thread for the sake of your own personal problems with your :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty reviews and information.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

Until then keep your hopes up about the performance of this thing, as i will have a sample of the finalized design headed my way for review, and ill be pitting it against a TRUE, HDT S1283 and the Red Scorpion S1283.

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Please do that also using a powerful fan such as the ultra kaze 3000. :up:

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Originally Posted by RealTelstar

Please do that also using a powerful fan such as the ultra kaze 3000. :up:

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lol i have to see what i have, ill probably have to get one from petras shop then ;)

Its cheap ;)

Please stop with the arguing guys. If it continues, we will have to close the thread and give out infractions.
Your personal differences are your own business - keep them to yourselves.

Yes plesae stop fighting..........I blame that on the highly anticipationg S1284......... I have a dream too.

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Originally Posted by runmc

Please stop with the arguing guys. If it continues, we will have to close the thread and give out infractions.
Your personal differences are your own business - keep them to yourselves.

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I totally agree.

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Originally Posted by RealTelstar

Please do that also using a powerful fan such as the ultra kaze 3000. :up:

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Considering the number of fans out there, why use the Ultra Kaze 3000? That thing operates at such a high RPM and has such a massive static pressure envelope that it would make even a lackluster cooler look like a champ. :confused:

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Considering the number of fans out there, why use the Ultra Kaze 3000? That thing operates at such a high RPM and has such a massive static pressure envelope that it would make even a lackluster cooler look like a champ. :confused:

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Because has been tested with the TRUE already and I'm curious how the other top coolers will do with such a fan.
A comparison with a high speed fan is needed imo. There's people out there that are not obsessed about silent PCs. If somebody goes air, can also enjoy the woosh :)

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Originally Posted by RealTelstar

Because has been tested with the TRUE already and I'm curious how the other top coolers will do with such a fan.
A comparison with a high speed fan is needed imo. There's people out there that are not obsessed about silent PCs. If somebody goes air, can also enjoy the woosh :)

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I am half deaf and I find the noise put out by the Ultra Kaze 3000 is on the high side. IMO, I like seeing reviews with a more "mundane" fan profile of 1200-2000rpm. I also think it is important to test with the included fan (if there is one) as well as doing tests with the same fan across the board.

The fact of the matter is that most people who buy a cooler will never change out the stock fan. So while testing with the same fan across the board plays up each unit's comparison to the next across a level playing field, I think stock vs stock is also an important benchmark. Heck, I have yet to even THINK about changing the fan on my ages-old AC Freezer 64 Pro and I probably never will. ;)

I have to agree, although, I like seeing reviews where multiple fans are used to show performance comparisons at whatever level you may be aiming for. Be it silence, or high performance.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Considering the number of fans out there, why use the Ultra Kaze 3000? That thing operates at such a high RPM and has such a massive static pressure envelope that it would make even a lackluster cooler look like a champ. :confused:

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That's likely why. Even undervolted they produce fantastic pressure. It's a damn shame the two that I bought through Direct Canada click :(

If you want something with similar performance but quieter (and much less available) test with the San Ace H1011:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=214

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Originally Posted by Kopi

I have to agree, although, I like seeing reviews where multiple fans are used to show performance comparisons at whatever level you may be aiming for. Be it silence, or high performance.

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You gotta understand that its very time consuming and the results in most cases dont really prove anything useful, majority of the heatsinks that come with a fan are already designed to use a specific amount of CFM for maximum cooling performance. And granted if you use a fan that is putting out hurricane force winds its gona be able to cool even the crappiest of heatsinks really well. Which doesnt really say much for the review, other then more air = better in all circumstances with all heatsinks.

I think the one place it's useful is how it deals with low CFM fans. Say, 800RPM. Above 1600RPM, most heatsinks tend to scale similarly in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I think the one place it's useful is how it deals with low CFM fans. Say, 800RPM. Above 1600RPM, most heatsinks tend to scale similarly in my experience.

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Do you think its worth it i invest in the ultra kaze then?

Which one? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Which one? :confused:

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the 3000 model they are suggesting i use for the review

I'd get an 800RPM fan over that for HSF testing.

Most stock fans are 1300-2000RPM, and above ~1400-1600RPM, modern heatsinks all scale basically the same (i.e., the HSF that wins at 1600RPM will win at 3000RPM).

In the other direction...a Scythe Infinity or Ninja Cu or Orochi with an 800RPM fan will perform closer to a HSF that handily beats it with a 1600RPM fan.


See the Infinity being most competitive at 800RPM (and the TRUE sucking)?
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5006/picture10hv7.png

Yah good point, guess ill consider my options for testing while im ahead.

If you get an YL D12SH-12, you can run it at 12V and 5V....you'd have a good, inexpensive ~75CFM fan and a ~40CFM fan all in one. :p:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

If you get an YL D12SH-12, you can run it at 12V and 5V....you'd have a good, inexpensive ~75CFM fan and a ~40CFM fan all in one. :p:

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i have the low speed, medium speed, and high speed loonies here ;) amongst other models

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

I am half deaf and I find the noise put out by the Ultra Kaze 3000 is on the high side. IMO, I like seeing reviews with a more "mundane" fan profile of 1200-2000rpm. I also think it is important to test with the included fan (if there is one) as well as doing tests with the same fan across the board.

The fact of the matter is that most people who buy a cooler will never change out the stock fan. So while testing with the same fan across the board plays up each unit's comparison to the next across a level playing field, I think stock vs stock is also an important benchmark. Heck, I have yet to even THINK about changing the fan on my ages-old AC Freezer 64 Pro and I probably never will. ;)

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I agree completely, the Kaze 3000 is on the high side of noise. In our next article Benchmark Reviews will use the Yate Loon D12SH-12 120mm fan. It produces a static 88 CFM @ 2200 RPM. It's not nearly as loud, but what I would certainly consider at the edge of comfortable computing without a headset.

Your second point has also sunk in... it's a lot of work to test with two different fans on every cooler, but I think it's necessary. Everyone wants to know how the cooler will perform in stock form, just as much as with a high-volume fan.

Now I'm not expecting that the community will 100% back my decision, but I think that the TRUE should be tested using the D12SH-12 and the Xigmatek HDT-S12823's AD1212HX-A7BGL 120mm cooling fan. The AD1212HX-A7BGL is rated for 99.6 CFM @ 2200 RPM, but believe me, it never get's there.

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Originally Posted by Das Capitolin

Your second point has also sunk in... it's a lot of work to test with two different fans on every cooler, but I think it's necessary. Everyone wants to know how the cooler will perform in stock form, just as much as with a high-volume fan.

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You see, there is a bit of a flip side to this. There are some coolers out there (Arctic Cooling Freezer and their new Extreme for example) that only have mounts for their proprietary (and pre-installed) fan. Swapping out the fan is possible but it is a major pain in the butt.

I guess my issue here is that there is just no way to have a level playing field. Granted, some coolers don't come with a fan in which case it is necessary to use a fan with good static pressure values and good CFM.

Vapor, for low-RPM fans I believe the Scythe Kaze Jyuni 800RPM or the Ultra Kaze 1000RPM may be good choices as well, no?

I think the main issue is where reviewers draw the line between including enough info and busting their humps for days on end just for the very vocal enthusiast community. Take us at Hardware Canucks for example. We already test two different processors at stock and overclock settings and we will now be including a second overclock test as well. Adding seperate fan tests for each cooler as well would just completely push things too far IMO.

Well as you can tell by that month long air cooling roundup i have a passion for "serving the community" but theres only so much i can do, i cant appease everyone, but i try my best to make it informative. The basis of last years roundup was comparing everything on an even playing field with stock settings, and retail packages. For the thermalrights that dont include fans it was an issue but i decided to go with a medium speed yate loon because those are pretty much your run of the mill fan in cfm and rpm.