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After seeing sevral questions on the basic set up of a waterchiller, and seeing no real guied out there, and while i can start on any more prodjects untill my arms a littel more healed (:() im guna make a guied to help along people. Feel free to add anything if ive left it out.
ps, this is for the everyday chiller most people will be putting togeather, If anyone wants me too, i have a few tips ive learned with my -60c chiller to allow you to run at those lower temps without problem.
First off you need to get whatever your going to be using, lets say in this case its a window a/c, most anything else your going to use is going to be the same prinsiple as this.
Lets talk about unit size (get your mind out of the gutter) A 5,000 btu unit will do just fine for most chillers, and will cost the least to run.
You first need to take of the housing of the unit, then you should see two radiator like things. One on either side of the unit. One will have a fan on it, the other, will most likly have a squire cage fan in front of it. The one in the back, is the radiator. The one in the front is your evaporator.
now as you probly guessed, the evaporator is the part that cools down, you need to set this in your res to chill the water. You need to be carefull to do this part right. You need to get a pipe bender, and carfully bend the copper pipes that go to the evaporator, in order for you to let it sit in the res. Make sure and take your time as to not break or pinch the tubing if you dont want to recharge the system. carfully set the evaporator into the res.
Now to additives. Most people like to use anti freeze with there set ups, and it will work with most chillers . Try and find the "winter grade" type to make sure you dont have any freezing. Some people like to add water too there mixes to try and help with the load displacment, i never have found this nessisary, but it may work better for you. Just mess around with your mixture untill you find one you like.
Now a word of warning about freezing. Be SURE that your mixture wont freeze. If this means watching it for an hour untill it gets to its coldest temp then do just that. Freezing can lead to busting your evaporator, and thus, getting water into the system and destroying your compressor. Not a good thing mind you. Be absolutly sure before you seal that res.
There are may questions as to the blocks you should use. I find that just about any block works fine. Along the line of the maze 2 or 3, spir@l block and others that you can get from d-tek or danger den. (i have heard something bad about the maze 4 but im not sure how true, but i would stear clear just encase) Just make sure that you order the copper toped block, not the poly! The poly top can crack at lower temps.
As for pumps, most wc pumps will work fine with everyday chillers, up untill around -45c. Most normal chillers wont get near that. I would sudjest a eheim pump myself, cheap and one of the best you can buy.
now for hose placement. If you look at the pick above, you can see that the only place for my pump to sit is that the end. However, that isnt the best place to get your water from. I have a hose attatched to the intake of my pump, and then i set the hose under the evaporator. Thats where your going to find your coolest temps. I then usualy have my return water hose near the top of the res.
As for insulation there are numerous diffrent ways you can insulate. Just look around and pick the one thats easy for you. If anyone wants, i can post a guied myself. Just remember this, tighter insulation = more condensation (i should have been a rapper) Dont wrap your hoses with duct tape over your hosing insulation, this just hurts it, and you will be more likly to end up with condensation.
Remember to seal your res!! I usualy get some fiber glass insulation, put it around the res, and just cover it with duct tape, but whatever you do, just make sure its pretty tighly secure!
Almost forgot about tubing. Clear flex works good as well as tygon. Personaly i dont see a diff besides price. Some people will argue with me from dusk till dawn that its more flexible at lower temps but ive had tygon break on me at around -60 (becuase i was clumbsy and nocked into it), clearflex worked just as well, plus its a littel cheaper. Just be carefull and dont bend cold tubing too much.
Uh.. think thats it, if anyone has anything ive left out just tell me.
Tip from Canada. When using auto anti freeze, mix 50/50 with distilled water. This should be good down to -40c. You can find a cheap tester at most auto parts stores.
Kenneth, what size of window AC is the minimum? 40,000 BTU ?
added into my first post
I made a thread on this but got no answers and you have done this so your the person to ask :D My question:If I chill my NB do I have to insulate the DIMM sockets and if so how would I do that? Also, do you have any pics of your NB its self insulated?
And while your at it how about you aprove my blocks to :p
TC4 rev2 with copper top
DD maze4 GPU (I know the maze4 CPU is bad but what about the GPU? The MCW50 has plastic barbs so I can't get that :mad: )
dtek chipset block
what i did is got a very skinny peice of neopreme and cut a hole for the nb chip, then just set the insulated nb block on top of that, make sure that your insulation on the block will touch the neopreme. Then i just used silacone around the edge to seal it off tight. and no you dont have to insulate the DIMM socket. Well i guess that may depend on the board, but on ic7 and boards like it, then no. Just make sure you put some foam on the back side of the board of cource.Quote:
Originally posted by afireinside
I made a thread on this but got no answers and you have done this so your the person to ask :D My question:If I chill my NB do I have to insulate the DIMM sockets and if so how would I do that? Also, do you have any pics of your NB its self insulated?
And while your at it how about you aprove my blocks to :p
TC4 rev2 with copper top
DD maze4 GPU (I know the maze4 CPU is bad but what about the GPU? The MCW50 has plastic barbs so I can't get that :mad: )
dtek chipset block
All the blocks look good to me. The only thing i saw about the maze 4, was someone on pro forums i think, that said the seal wasnt tight or something along those lines, just make sure and test it out with the chilled water before you put it on your board too make sure.
My boards gona be an NF7-S so all I gota do is put some neoprene under the sockets? I got all my insulation down now... I think.... My grandparents are comming for dinner in a bit but after they leave I'm FINALLY going to set everything up and order my blocks and neoprene.
naw, just under the nb, dont see how you would have a problem with condensation under the dimm sockets.
Oh ok. I saw a chilled P4 and NB at phase-change.com and the guy said he had to insulate his dim sockets and that worried me. Thanks a bunch man :banana:
sticky tbh
Great thread!
We have an extra a/c in the basement that i might see if my dad will let me "barrow" for this project.
great kenneth amma take this note into consideration of my watercooling project
thanks! hope this helps out some people.
So in the set-up pictured above, how long does it take to cool the res ? I assume the AC is running steady when in use, and not cycling ?
takes about 20-30 mins to get the water to around -25c, running steady. If you get a good cooler and its sealed well, you can get it to -25c, shut it off, go to bed and in the morning its only about 6-7c warmer. With your system off of cource :)
So once it achieves the lowest temp on the res, could you cycle it say 30mins on 30mins off with a timer ? Not concerned about the electricity, just the longevity of the AC unit.
its better for the a/c to have it running non stop. Its not very good for it to be switching on and off.
gothcha, makes sense.
to seal the area between copper hoses and the top of the res, did you just cut a hole and fill it with insulation?
yea, made a little slot with my dremmel, then used some spray foam insulation, i swear, that stuff can do anything :)
Gimme your Dremal :p I really, really need one of those things. I have an old one but its a piece of crap and I can't even figure out how the cutting blade thing stays on :|
any comments on the size or material of the resivoir?
just get an ice cooler , and make sure it will fit your evaporator in it, you want it with some size just so its harder to heat up the res. I think the one i was using when i took those pics was about 15 gallons.
hmm, i'm trying to fit my whole setup inside of a case so i guess i'll just end up getting a smaller ice cooler and making my case around it.Quote:
Originally posted by KennethChong
just get an ice cooler , and make sure it will fit your evaporator in it, you want it with some size just so its harder to heat up the res. I think the one i was using when i took those pics was about 15 gallons.
edit: durrr
:slobber: :(
wow, in US these window A/C is about 125 $.
Cheapest, i could get in Germany is about 380 Euro~400 $
Holy §§§§
man thats pricy, i can go down to wall mart and get a 5000btu unit for 85 us, any idea why its so high over there?
well, actually, i dunno, prolly only marketingstrategy...
likewise the Mach I is still available in the US, but no more in Europe, i emailed chipcon, they said, that they just took it away from EuropeanMarket,:mad:
ack, didnt know that :/
Today I went to a shop to buy one of those window A/C, but something went wrong, all the A/Cs I could buy were bigger than a 32 inch tv!!! Can anyone tell me a brand and model or post a link or even a photograph so I can take it to te shop. Also BTU measures what? I guess more BTU less temps, but it is the capacity of removing heat or has to do with the compressor power?? How many BTU has your water chiller Kenneth to get -70???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a btu is the amount of power it takes to drop 1 pound of water, 1f. Yes more means more cooling, but more is not alwase best. AC's can be pretty large, there not all very small, but if you go with the 5000 btu unit you should have any problems. If you find a good deal on a larger unit go for it, but you will run into problems with larger units if there too big. (like 14000 btu)
The unit i have is a old pharmaceutical fridge. It was rated at -125c before i got to it, i think they replaced it with a smaller compressor anyways. There not guna be waht your looking for, they can be over 10k, i got mine from a freind who repairs them, for quite a bit less.
I noticed at Home Depot that they have a pretty good deal on a 5.5 cu. ft. freezer, would it work ? Kind of like getting a free resevoir to boot :D
alot of people have tried that, from what ive heard and seen it cant really keep up with the heat load, and if it did, it got around 5c watertemp or so, not the best preformer, but it will work slightly. The thing is with freezers is there designed to cool something down and keep it there, there not that good about dealing with continuous heat load.
Here in Finland I`ve seen many people using compressors taken out of just your ordinary freeser. All you need to do is find an old freeser (uesualy you can find one for about 20 euros) and then tear it to peaces. Just be carefull not to brake the copper tubes while destroying the insulation. When done, get a propper reservoir (using thatkind of an icebox is a good idea but a large bucket will work also, You just need to insulate it using foam etc.) , then just stuff the copper tubing to the reservoir. You can usualy bend the tubing to a relatively tight "knot", just need to be carefull;) With this sort of system you can get coolant temps around -20C , maeby even lower with more powefull compressor.
The other system is basically same as Kenneth`s chiller.
This phase change cooling is still quite new to me so I haven`t tried this myself but am planing to as I belive My system(P4 2.4C, Epox 4PDA2+) would benefit quite much from it. I`m still using the stock cooler cause my water rig leaked when I was installing it thus making this board dead for a week!
Hpe this helps all af you who cant find or afford propper AC machine
:D
k.chong,
Hey how many BTU's is that AC you are using, and how low does it go?
Also do you have a model # and brand for that one?
Thanks
That's how i built mine & im getting -25c with a 1/12hp compressor, but the recovery would be better with a AC.Quote:
Originally posted by hatemi
Here in Finland I`ve seen many people using compressors taken out of just your ordinary freeser. All you need to do is find an old freeser With this sort of system you can get coolant temps around -20C , maeby even lower with more powefull compressor.
:D
im revamping mine with a 6000btu/hr AC.
u might want to add some cap tube sizing info
Im just in the process of dismantling an older ac unit.... couple questions comes to mind, first, how often would I need to recharge teh ac with refrigirant and secondly how hard will it be to insulate everything?
Oh and one more thing, Im looking at a spirol for the cpu block as there's no way Im using Cathar's masterpiece for this project.... for the gpu, would a swiftech MCW50 work or do I need to get an all metal block? what do you guys recommend?
Whats stopping you using 2 compressors? That way you can even controll the coolant temp to some degree by just turning the other comp off when the comp is idling-> no need to run prime on the background 24/7 ;)Quote:
Originally posted by vlad
That's how i built mine & im getting -25c with a 1/12hp compressor, but the recovery would be better with a AC.
im revamping mine with a 6000btu/hr AC.
I am wondering could you make like a shroud that fits over the evap with the tubing connected in teh middle so the water is pulled right through it.
Hello, all. New to XS.
I was kinda thinking something like that.
Oc2theSkY, I was thinking something along thoes lines. Imagine this: a trough with several chilller heads inside of it. the water enters at one side and is drawn slowly to the other end.
Would there be any advantage to this setup?
Can ud o the same thing with a drife compressor and stuff?
Or would u ahve to use the fridge to store the compressor.
i guess there won't be any advantage to this setup - especially if all those chiller heads would have roughly the same temperature "output".Quote:
Originally posted by Crescent
Oc2theSkY, I was thinking something along thoes lines. Imagine this: a trough with several chilller heads inside of it. the water enters at one side and is drawn slowly to the other end.
Would there be any advantage to this setup?
don't get me wrong here. say one chillerhead would deliver -20° - now 4 heads of -20° wont deliver -80°. the only thing that a line of chillerheads would be good for is to stabilize the overall temperature.
one head could be pushed to its limits when the heat / energy put into the water surpasses the cooling capability of that head. what would happen is that the overall watertemp will rise eventually. so if you have more heads (from individual ac-units) they would just aid to keep the overall temperature down at the max (or close to it) of an individual head, but no deeper.
example (theoretical, just outofthesky values, not actual ones)
- 400w of heat put into the water by your pc.
- lowest temp a single chiller would give water that isn't heated
up by any piece of equipment you use is -20°C
so now when the 400w are put into your water, the chiller does all it can to cool down the water, but it won't get deeper than -5° due to the massive heat your sys puts out.
next you got two of those chillers that max out at -20°C.
so now you got 2 pieces that remove heat from the water. together they might be strong enough to balance the system at, say, -16°C. adding a 3rd chiller (individual ac unit, as said above) will get you pretty close to -20°C, but no deeper.
same as using icecubes to cool a drink. using 3 cubes and it gets down to almost freezing. using ten more won't give you temps below freezing, the temperature of the drink just gets closer to that of the icecubes...
if that is common knowledge and you knew already - please forgive me for lecturing ;)
oh and to contribute a bit to this topic, i'm working on a similar system that uses a beverage cooling instead of an ac-unit. the setup is basically the same, just that you don't have to get a separate res, as that comes with the cooling unit and is already fully isolated.
so you're basically done right after buying one of those. just setup your pump in the res and you're done.
I just whant to know if its good to just take some silicon tubes@ a plumbing shop???
Thanks for a good guide...just wanted to know where have your pics gone?
I think I am gonna try to make a chiller, and this guide was very helpful. Would be nice to see the pics, but I can find pics in other places.
Is bending the evaporator difficult? Would one of those gatorade coolers work well? Kind of spiral the evap down and have the pump in the bottom?
also, if i use something like this shoudl I use the stock controls to turn it on and off, or do i need to wire some other sort of switch?
Ack, sorry about the pics... I had them hosted on my server i had at my old home, which has long sence been sold :/ Also lost my sig :stick:
What did you do with the fileserver?
Now give us those -60C chiller tips I need a low temp pump :D
wow sky that is like exactly what I want !! I am very interested in phase change but at the same time kinda scared about trying to make my own res insulate everything etc.
and vapo units are hella pricey
Great guide! But I do have a few questions which maybe you should add in there
What's the difference as far as OC performance between a chiller and just straight water? You should do a comparison as far as explaining what exactly a chiller is used for and the differences between just straight water. This is coming from someone who knows nothing, which is who the guide is aimed at. All I know is that chiller is colder.
this is kind of hard to figure out without pictures :(
so basically what this is, is just adding a evaporator and radiator from an air conditioning unit to your current w/c setup am i right
im a begginer btw and am looking at OCing my intel 3.2GHZ cpu to 4.1 and keeping my EVGA 6800 Ultra nice and chilly, so i can overclock it later(i hpe to go to 475 or higher maybe im not too sure.)
here is the liquid setup i most likley will go with.
Swiftech MC650 pump
Tygon 1/2 ID tubing
Swiftech-Bay-Res
Hardware Labs Ice Extreame 2 mounted externally with swiftech radbox
Dangerden TDX cpu block (478 socket one)
Here is a thread somewhere else with some pictures showing the process. Go here
Excuse my noobiness but wouldnt the cost of running a chiller 24/7 be alot?
its equvilivent to the cost of running an air conditioning unit rite?
also, the AC unit being discussed is a standard room window ac or a special size
Ali