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Do you guys think that we can fit 2 MCW60 on a 3870X2? Does it have ramsinks like the 3870 or we will need a lot of enzotechs?
What about the PCI express chip, it is just in the middle, I thought we could use 2 MCW60, a short tube linking the 2 and some kind of 90º elbow for in and out.
The issue is the PCI express chip between the 2 cores.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...bsb/bridge.jpg
anandtech picture.
another picture
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/H...ages/front.jpg
I think the holes around the GPU are simply too close together for the MCW60 to fit at all... I mean the block is too big.
Has anyone got exact measurements?
and there are like zillion things to cool beside the two cores
I don't think so, the MCW60 can be used on a standard 3870, should be the same hole patternQuote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
Well, that is why I asked if the 3870X2 has memory heatsinks similar to the 3870, that way we could use just a core block and leave the stock heatsink on the memory and mosfets chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by zbogorgon
Probably I'll get an EK waterblock, I'm just concerned about water flow loss, 2 mcw60 will result in 1.66 GPM using my build (DDC3.3 + petra's top, fuzion with quad nozzle and PA120.3).
If the EK 3870X2 has a similar pressure drop (probably worst) than a EK8800 it will result in 1.51 GPM.
Not that much, right? Considering now I'll have two graphics cores watercooled.
With the EK block, don't count it as 2 since it has a single water channel. Maybe like a EK x 1.2.
sure, a single and longer waterchannel. I counted it as an EK8800 standard.
I'm sure it is worst, only Martin will tell us how worst.
I am sure vendors will have full coverage blocks soon . . .that sure is alot of card to cool tho . . .wonder when we will have dual-core gpus on a single die . . .
I don't think that it has the same hole pattern. But, that wouldn't be that hard to overcome. For example, right now I am using a G80 hold-down plate 3870, just did some careful measuring and drilling of the plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
added another picture, I think it is possible, it will depends on the cooling needed for the pci express chip.
That's alot of ramsinks..:D
Sure Martin, maybe we are looking to a full block only card. :(
If flow loss is your concern, why not run two MCW60s in parallel? It'll be a damn sight better than a full coverage block, as long as you've got enough flow to keep the MCW60s beyond the elbow in their PQ curves. I'm not sure if the calculator handles parallel setups or not though.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
the problem is the placement, not the flow, two mcw60 will hurt flow less, but it seems that they will not fit without interfere with the other heatsinks.
And here I was thinking +1.5GPM is good...Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
A certain review mentioned the holes being tighter than the normal HD3870 but has similar spacing to the 7600gt.
Yea, look at the back of the stock cooler, curtesy of DD.
That is a lot of stuff to cool without a single solution....
http://www.dangerden.com/images/stor...sink-1000w.jpg
Danger Den WaterBlock....
http://www.dangerden.com/images/stor...view-1200w.jpg
EK Water Block
http://images.ncix.com/forumimages/1...B3704603B3.jpg
Cool it's Solution
http://ketzone.com/blog/wp-content/g...r_block_01.jpg
wow coolit thats the ugliest thing i ever seen in my life! lol
ek one looks the best as usual wonder if it performs the best though?
Yea, when I saw Cool it's i just had to throw it up there for laughsQuote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
y does the stock cooler have one aluminum and one copper heatsink for the core?
Well then a full coverage solution definitely makes the most sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Price?:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerlad
Not sure how accurate this is but this is an idea:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerlad
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/...x_2/page4.html
The coolit is fugly, but at least they had the good sense to cool the two cores in parallel. If only EK had done that, there might be a design worth falling in love with...Quote:
Originally Posted by disruptfam
What is the definative answer? Yes or no?
I see a lot of speculation but no one with concrete evidence. I'm holding back my order of my X2 and another mcw60 until I get an answer!
I would really appreciate an X2 owner taking and posting up some measurements?
Is there an air cooler that will work as an alternative? I don't want to spend £70 on an EK block for a card I'll be replacing in a few month...
TYIA
Edit: This non ref design doesn't bother cooling the PLC chip (much) so with this in mind the mcw60 option looks good... If only we knew they fit...
good find but I want to see two mounted blocks with heatsinks on ram chips or at least some good measurements
It should work. Although if you factor in the cost of 2 mcw60's, 16 bga sinks and misc sinks for regs etc a full coverage block starts to look appealing.
Sure, but we should consider that a lot of guys already have a MCW60, ramsinks and we will not have a paperweight block when upgrading cards.
Legend. I skipped through that review way too eagerly and missed that. Thank you :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
Exactly. I have one mcw60 and ramsinks and a friend will sell me his mcw60/sinks for next to nothing. Sold. X2 on route ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
i belive 2 MCW60R are better that full plate for OC this beast
the MCW60 block will NOT fit this card. I'm trying to figure out how to get the 2 new ones i bought to fit on my 3870x2 as i write this. the bolt patterns on the card are too narrow for the waterblock... back to the drawing board...
Measurements for the bolt holes on the 3870x2 are as follows: hole diameter = 0.125" ; hole spacing = 1.65" center to center.
Measurements for the bolt holes on the MCW60 are as follows: hole diameter = 0.100" ; hole spacing = 1.733" center to center.
THIS ALL MEANS IT DOESN'T FIT!!
Depending how popular the card is, maybe D-Tek will eventually make a unisink for it?
I've always favored GPU only blocks a bit more (Performance/price), but with as much stuff as there is on this one, it's getting more difficult and price probably isn't as appealing with two blocks plus all the ramsinks needed.
It could probably be done though...we'll see..
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
:rofl:Quote:
So, with that knowledge the water cooling boys are busy doing their happy dance. Why? Because their vaunted Swiftech MCW60 GPU blocks should have no trouble fitting on this card.
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:Quote:
the MCW60 block will NOT fit this card. I'm trying to figure out how to get the 2 new ones i bought to fit on my 3870x2 as i write this. the bolt patterns on the card are too narrow for the waterblock... back to the drawing board...
Measurements for the bolt holes on the 3870x2 are as follows: hole diameter = 0.125" ; hole spacing = 1.65" center to center.
Measurements for the bolt holes on the MCW60 are as follows: hole diameter = 0.100" ; hole spacing = 1.733" center to center.
THIS ALL MEANS IT DOESN'T FIT!!
Pictures! We Demand Picures!
if your wondering Tanamoril is a newly registered member (btw welcome)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
and pm'd me to post on his behalf:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
thanks this nice thanks
So has Tanamoril found a satisfactory solution for cooling the bridge and RAM, or is he giving up on using the MCW60s? I wasn't quite sure what this meant:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
it doesn't look like a clean install, too bad the card will not take the mcw60 without bending the screws.
The cost for two mcw60 and ramsinks is not that cheaper:
- mcw60: 47 * 2 = $94
- enzotech ramsinks = 13 * 2 = 26
- swiftech mosfets heatsinks: $10
- some kind of heatsink for the pci express chip: $2
total: $132. The good part is the two mcw60 would fit a newer card in the future, the full block will find its end on the 3870 X2 or keeping a pile of paper on place.
full block: $166 for the EK, hope the dangerden version comes cheaper
FYI, my review on HWC has been updated.
THE MCW60 WILL NOT CLEANLY INSTALL!!!!!!!!!!! I have it and a Danger Den Maze 5 here now to test my theory and I can confirm that they will not install cleanly since the mounting holes are about 2-3mm off from the 2-hole retention bracket.
IMO, the HR-03 Rev.A fit because it has a greater tolerance for the holes on its mounting plate.
:( :( :(
nother update from my pm friend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
Hello
I 've got a MCW60R..and it's too "hard" to make it fit correctly and to cool the ram and mosfets too..
So..even if i know that evryone here juste hates aluminium..
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5711/x2bw7.jpg
these fit perfectly..It's anosided aluminium..
Not expensive at all(50 euros) and cool correctly.
In fact all the 6600/7600GT and X1600 WB's will fit on an X2 card..
Sweet, they may be aluminum but it looks good on the card. just make sure you use aditives to prevent corrosion. keep us informed on how well they work. I am modding my danger den blocks at work tommorow and will see if they mount properly. I saw those zalmans but with six blocks around the house right now I decided to mod what I already have.
Pej, could you take a picture with the hole card on it? I'd like to see the all ramsinks installed.
Yes, those Zalman water blocks fit without a problem because they have adjustable mounting locations which line up with pretty much any card's HSF holes. It is a pretty brilliant way to go about it actually.
Did you include any new pictures or just the statement at the top of the page?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I will be including the pics soon. Seems as though the memory card I was using last night to take the pics is suffering from some sort of corruption. Pics should be up soon once I figure out what the heck happened. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
seriously can a mod plz let this guy post lol i am nice but i am not on that often so his posts kinda back up
andQuote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
Wont that just leak everywhere? The bolts removed compress the copper base to the plastic top, the o-ring makes the seal...
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...0x2_side50.jpg
Unless there are some locking nuts slipped in between the block and the pcb (if you follow me)
I'm on... :D
Massive thanks to Vapor for the help getting on and to Grafton for the posting help :up:
Alright time for that long over due post I had ready Monday night:
Update:
@Jon Boy Deluxe: On the left block is where your attention should be focused (right block designed for the sake of completion) because the right one will definitely just gush out fluid. The left one actually has lock washers and nuts directly underneath the copper base to hold it together. However this usually makes it difficult to arrange the screws through the mounting holes as it straightens them out.
So another idea I arrived at was to remove them due to their constrictive nature and seal the block through use of force created by the mounting on the backside of the card. The idea being that the force created by the mounting would be enough to seal the blocks but not enough to break the unprotected core. Of course the only way to prove this was to let liquid flow through and perhaps have to spill all over the insides of my case or tighten the card to the point at which it would seal but possible bringing it to the point where the core would break – this aftermath resulted in the kicking of two other ideas I had: the previously mentioned idea and zip ties. :D
Then again there won’t be too many people keen on such risky methods.
2nd Update:
Alright, my ramsinks arrived today; All 24 of ‘em. However two of them need to be cut in half and one arranged so that it losses some height. I don’t have the appropriate tools for the job and my backup plan to use my buddy who tends to have such materials failed.
But such an update is, I’m sure, not what you wanted to hear. So of course I just decided to go without the cooling, for now ;), but for the sake of information I decided to use an older idea I had passed on with a slightly new implementation. This led to the following:
Two MCW60’s on a 3870x2 – Clean Installation:
If you will permit me to not post temps as I prefer to have a working card when I finally go about water cooling it. No cooling on the voltage regulators or make shift cooling that can accomplish the same thing, but I do have pics. :D
Installation:
First off, I’ve brought back the stock screws used to fasten the copper block to the plastic top (ensuring the seal). These screws go on opposite corners of the block to give the main bulk of the seal. Next two of the long screws from one of the mounting block assemblies (in this case the G80 adapter kit) fitted with washers at the top are slid, and I do mean slid – no forcing necessary, through the two remaining holes on opposite ends of the block. Once they are in place the block is actually capable of some movement so it’s not dead stuck or tight. The backside is then fitted with two paper washers, two springs, their accompanying plastic inserts, and finally the open-ended screws to fasten the block in place. Repeat this process once more for the other block and you should have two fully mounted MCW60 water blocks on your nice, new 3870x2. :up:
Pictures –
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...70x2_top50.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6..._contact50.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6..._support50.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...ncontact50.jpg
leak test them!
I still think that after tubing is isntalled the blocks will not mount correctly
Thats actually not a bad idea and something I could do too. I just hate the whole drain, assemble, drain , assemble - (and when I get my ram fixed) drain, assemble idea though ;)
Not sure why I don't delete my previous thought, LoL. I suppose instead i could just leak test 'em in the sink with tubing. I'll see to it after classes (expect 6:30PM Post - or possibly at 3PM)
I also have an easy fix in mind should it not pass. Even if it does I'll still post the design up as it couldn't hurt. Need to work out possible issues first though.
Nice work Tanamoril...
Now all we need is a bios flash tool (or if there is one I need to know!)
Look forward to the leak test/temp results
Leak testing passed on both blocks! :up:
I managed to find a pump I could use for more accurate results. Pictures and reinforced secondary mount to follow shortly.
Heres the results -
Water Cooling Testbed:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...ter_Test50.jpg
[EDITED: Removed 'Bolt Arrangment' picture as the 'Testbed' displays the bolt arrangement more clearly]
Even though the current arrangement is definitely leak proof, with perhaps the exception of an Iwaki :D , I arranged another mounting system to add a little extra to the seal.
100% Sealed Design -
Flipping the block over, copper side up, put a washer on each of the two screws and slide them through the mounting holes built into the block that were designed for the two-hole back mount, towards the black top. Make sure the stock screws originally designed to hold the block together are on the opposite ends of these mounting holes when installing. After sliding the screws through the mounting holes, use two of the open-ended screws used on backplate to fasten the screws into place. After that the water block should be perfectly sealed. Enjoy! :up:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...W60_Side50.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...60_Angle50.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...W60_Tilt50.jpg
[Blocks are arranged fully assembled as though already mounted]
Niiiice :)
I want to see some temps :D
Can you check your max oc on the stock cooler please, then on water to give an indication of what I might expect (given mine seems to be a crud clocker...)
Sure thing, I'll have temps up on Monday.
Aaww, your gonna make us wait till monday???? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
Temps or ban!!!;)
(joking, take your time ;))
Any news mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
I personally like the EK waterblock and if I were ever to get 2x 3870x2's to hook up to my swiftech system then that's what I'd use.
I imagine that 2 MCW60s would fit on a 3870x2, as I have then on my 3870 and they arent that big. From looking at the picture, I am 90% confident they'll fit, as they only take up the space in between the 4 screw holes.
Sorry Deluxe, my primary and backup plans fell through. I wasn't able to go home on Friday to grab my Dremel and the guy who was supposed to pick his up, since I couldn't, forgot the disc half. :shakes:
It's those darn ramsinks that have been holding me back. :down:
I'll definitely be home on Friday around 2PM and I WILL have those temps up same day. :up:
They hole spacing is pretty small, you might be surprised. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymon3X6
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
... I don't get itQuote:
Originally Posted by Nate P.
0.o ?
Nor do I...
Great pics btw, I'm anxious to see your final setup.
Seeing it seems a little tenuous to use MCW60s on the X2, why not follow SF3D's example and use MCW30s? link
Will the performance difference be huge?
BTW, been hiding away following Extreme Systems exploits for a few years now, you guys are great!
any geusstimate on how much worse the temps will be on the MCW-30 v. the 60's. and just want to make sure, the heatsinks for the Ram, etc on the ATI stock cooler comes off the stock cooler so i can use it instead of ramsinks??
this is probably one card i would consider a full cover block for personally because of sooo many areas that need cooling as
I asked for more pictures on that thread, great ideai BTW
As am I ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lfk1ng
Thats an awesome setup. I like how he manages to keep the Red Heatsink, which was something I was kinda sad about losing. Someone should recommend some 90's on it though as it takes up quite a few slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adsman
Cooling wise though, couldn't imagine it doing all that well (although water is some awesome stuff), at least in the water scene. The MCW30 is a flat piece of copper inside of the block.
So far the Zalman waterblocks have been the best setup... aside from the mcw60's of course :D
If you're asking if the red ramsink can be kept when using the MCW60's the answer is no and yes. Yes if you use a copper standoff, but that's ill advised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedalmonkey
In before 12, almost ready to cut. Temps coming soon.
=3
Some day, that could mean years from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
LoL Nate. It says same day.
I actually just fell asleep in the garage, I've only had about 6 hours sleep over the last two days so I'm calling it for tonight. Missing the part that connects the disc and the dremel. Will continue looking for it in morning - or Home Depot.
Up to my neck in Murphy's Law related stuff it seems x_x
Tomorrow temps - for now me sleeps. :(
Success!!!
Two MCW60's fully mounted on the 3870x2 and running nicely!:up:
It's still "Saturday" on the west coast ;)
Dremeled those ramsinks (which was an unparalleled pain), slapped 'em on, set the loop up,and *WHAM* nice temps with the beauty on water :D
Pictures soon to follow, Asus Smart Doctor (Rivatuner still unavailable) showing 35 C at idle. :up:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...ly_Mounted.jpg
Nice bend, eh?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...2_Complete.jpg
If you haven't noticed the case is upside down (see reservoir) :D
Ramsink sticking related issue.
more pic of that setup and loads temps are needed asap!!
:) nice job bud
Pictures - Continuation:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...se_Lighted.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...ackup_Shot.jpg
Idle -
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...870x2_Idle.jpg
Load -
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...870x2_Load.jpg
3870x2 @ Load Hot List:
Bridge - Hot (fill it up with ramsinks)
RAM - Warm
Voltage - Hot
Large Pulse chip - Hot
Small Pulse Chip - Warm/Unknown(small/loose - wasn't going to really push it =P)
Chip next to small Pulse Chip - (Same as above)
I'll have the upside-down case setup until Monday night - where there's some nice thermal tape waiting for me :D
Enjoy the Results Everyone!
Nice job and nice temps. Ramsinks are a pain in the ass when you have that many different VRMs, chips, etc. to cover. Maybe a fan blowing across it would help?
can u post some everest gpu temps please load and idle..
i would like to individual temps of each gpu if possible
To my knowledge, no version of Everest has worked for me as far as retrieving even a single GPU temp. Rivatuner 2.07 is the only program besides Asus Smart Doctor (came with card) thats supposed to work with the 3870x2's and its slated for release a week from now.
Confirmation - http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1273749
I would say the smart doctor temps are probably a safe bet for now, although i couldn't tell you how Asus gets its temperature readings (be it from both cores averaged / highest core / or just a random pick).
Wrong. Please see this thread and try the linked latest version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
http://www.lavalys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2951
great work. Are you still using the stock backplate/ramsink ?
Sorry 0.o, here's Everest :
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...ASD_3870x2.jpg
Load temps not posted due to a problem with VRM temps. Before I throttled it, I noticed Asus Smart Doctor uses the highest core at load. Also, ATITool doesn't seem to stress both cores equally. One was around 45 C while the other was at 38 C
btw, what is the max stable temperature for the VRMs? Under load, one of the VRMs goes to and stays at a little over 50 C and one of the VRMs shoots up 100+ C. I'm checking into what is possibly cooling (or not cooling) it.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Nice work, let us know how the VRM problem goes... YOu sure the ram sink is making contact?
Looking forward for more results. And I must say, this is prolly one of those few times that it might be better to get a FC block.
-yonton228/timmy
46C full load is not that good :(
Alright, this project is now going in one of three directions:
The first option is to use a stronger adhesive tape and possibly redesign a few of the ramsinks.
The second option is to use copper plates in between the cores and the MCW60s and bring back the red heatsink. The copper plates should be enough to get it over the red pins on the side of the card. If not, then dremeling the red pins down comes into play.
Now the third option, This would be the best choice and possibly the easiest. Dremel down the red pins and dremel out the area where the block mounts. This option will work and cool the card effectively, it would also be the best choice for people looking for ease of use. However, my one and only concern about this option is that it damages the ability to sell it later.... However, the more I think about it, the more I want to do it.
Please give me some input. Thank you.
_________________
Side note: Full coverage blocks have been mentioned time and time again. They are definitely easier, but some people (including me) would rather not spend upwards of $150 on a waterblock and then have it sit around once the 3870x2's phase out. There's already a thread for these FC blocks, please post there as it is somewhat discouraging to continue to hear about how it would be better to use them instead.
I don't mean any ill will and I appreciate you taking the time to express your opinions, I'm just mentioning this now so future posts will avoid the topic. Much appreciation for your understanding. :D
...Also, how is 46 C load on this beast high? 0.o (awaiting response, somewhat confused and curious)
so just dremel out the stock heat sink? i think its perfect. no waste of materials, and one single solution. Any idea if the MCW-60's would be a single slot solution, or atleast enough to fit a sound card in with.
They'll take up two slots like the stock cooler. You should be able to fit a sound card in with ease (depending on your setup).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedalmonkey
Dremell it!
later you can sell it with the blocks installed.
Interesting Update:
I went to dremel:
The material is aluminum alright and luckily the part right around the block placement area is half as thick as the rest of the heatsink *yay*. However the block gets about a cm into the thick part, but the block should easily fit. Will need to remove a little over half of the red side pins so the tubing get through.
Now the interesting part. Since I couldn't complete the dremeling that day I went to try a better method of cooling the VRMs, so I just took the large heatsinks that were cut and redistributed them around to all of the VRMs and just slapped on entire, new heatsinks onto all of the pusle chips. So now the VRMs have more cooling - however ramsinks are apparently insufficient for cooling the VRMs, these things are beastly. Fitting the maximum amount of copper (plus pins) into the available space above the VRMs did not prove to cool the chips enough. The previous temperature I gave in comparison was drawn from ATI Tool - which only really stresses one core atm. In gameplay however pulls those temperatures sky high I mean near 100C and over on both. (and before anyone asks if they were mounted correctly, yes they were. XD. They didnt move during tiping and didnt fall off when upside down - and they were scorching under game load. They burnt skin off my friends finger when he went to lightly touch 'em XD )
Either give those VRM heatsinks active cooling (even then I'm unsure, having used a case sized fan to do so - but I don't remember what those temps were) or slap that stock heatsink back on and dremel it.
I should have time to dremel the stock heatsink completely on Thursday, so check back late that night (est. 11PM EST - latest).
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=176973
Two swiftech chipset coolers + 3870x2 :D
HWMonitor works great for GPU's, I always get great readings from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanamoril
Congratz on an awesome job m8, I'm a WC noob who will have my first loop setup next week. :up:
Yarp, its a nice setup. Someone has already mentioned it though, ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BooStFeD
Thank you. I'll give HWMon a go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerran
BTW, Update:
Rained today, Dremeling pushed back to Friday. Hopefully it will commence a little after noon.
You got anything Tanamoril? Hope you didn't like cut your finger off while dremeling that heatsink, :p.
anything?? anything at all?? might as well just do it myself now, :p