i got 2 from mwave today
checking the bios"es" and find out there is 860 lock again on P1. P0 doesn't seem to have lock but not sure
P0 P1? yes there are 2 bioses on one card
Printable View
i got 2 from mwave today
checking the bios"es" and find out there is 860 lock again on P1. P0 doesn't seem to have lock but not sure
P0 P1? yes there are 2 bioses on one card
Hahaha two BIOSes on one card :rofl:
More evidence to support the claim that the cores operate independently ;)
memory doesn't overclock high either.... BJ1A but weird... 999 is not reachable
What board partner are your cards from?
i bought from mwave
sapphre
Is there any way to watercool these cards currently?
I thought of 4 MCW60s, but it would require at least 2 loops...
what cat did it come with? have you tried CF yet?
Ton
no, you need to have a new mounting. distance between 2 holes are shorter than 2900XT / 3870
CF? what CF? 1 card is CF already lol. and 2 cards is QCF which is not support by any driver. 8.531Quote:
Originally Posted by TiTON
or two pumps... usually running in parallel underperforms a series. Only reason for running in parallel is if you're doing something complex or with TECs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
Well one loop for each card, because the intake would be Y split, and so would the out-take...Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
I could see an expensive headache for anyone who would dare try such a setup...
denny, sorry i meant quad fire. i was hoping you had some new bios. I want to do tri fire :)
good luck
Ton
QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;2726648]Is there any way to watercool these cards currently?
I thought of 4 MCW60s, but it would require at least 2 loops...[/QUOTE]
hehe, of course there is :D
no driver working for quad cards?
What is the price for one of these?
why they don't fix that bug strange
Coz they dont need to ;) It affects overclockers...1-2% of the market? and technically acts as a kind of insurance for card protection. overclocking is one thing, but how many people are willing to flash the BIOS on a GPU?
Im sure there will be custom BIOS available for these cards soon :)
Denny: If you can, please can you post up some pics of the back of the card, and we can get voltmods sorted for these cards ASAP? (unless you already have the voltmods done!)
:toast:
It's gotta be pre-mature bios/drivers. I think the communication still isn't quite 100% perfect on the card yet; needs some more fine tuning. We'll see when Sapphire releases a bios update in the next few weeks and CAT 8.2's are out.Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098
About the ram... Is it possible they have the timings too tight to reach that 999 mhz?
That could also be a possibility. Perhaps ATI wanted to squeeze every bit of extra performance out that they could, so they made the timings tighter than spec to get more memory bandwidth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
Not good as of now.
Dual 3870's are a much better option for the overclocker or the informed enthusiast.
just like everyone bought a 7950GX2 over 7900GT SLI :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler
well now i see that getting 2 3870s for 180€/card @ launch was the right decision :D
Not really sure if the first statement was meant to be a statement or sarcasm.. My statement was based on the lack of quad-fire support, if you could quad-fire these cards then they'd be kick-ass benching and gaming cards, but since you can't, just get some 3870's and run them at 900/2400 and stomp all over the X2's.Quote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
just let you know, 3870x2 is still CF. if a game doesn't support CF, 3870x2 works like a 3870 (such as crysis vista)
for the memory clock, i believe either voltage too low, or amd lock it
Can you measure the distance between the holes of the GPU-seating? Also, the distance between the cores would be nice. ;)
But the card feels stable and so on? No issues there?
Regards / Anders
Would it be possible to flash both biosses on such a card?
Normally when you flash with a dos utility you give the number of the PCIE slot, where you want the bios to be pushed trough.
that is what i said, there is P0 and P1 for one card.Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
I wonder if the 505.00 price is MSRP or Mwave doing their typical inflated price since they have them first.
Doesn't discount the fact I almost will called a few today.... :)
Tha is because you are using old drivers. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098
I believe your prices are a bit high since here we can get an 3870X2 for 400€
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
this could be very interesting and a reason to go from crossfire 3870's to quadfire 3870x2's.
Hi there...Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098
Thanks for the info...
So this is crap... If a game doesn´t support CF, x2 goes do X1... and behaves like a 200 € card...
This is a very bad move... Even if the drivers where top notch the problem could be somewhat avoiable, but that isn´t the case on ATI CF Drivers...
Lots of problems still persist, even from the 3870 launch... So im not very optimistic on this product...
Smells like Flop...
Regards,
LPC
I suggest you all wait for the reviews to come out and pay special attention to the reviews using the newest drivers before counting out this card.
This should've been expected...Quote:
Originally Posted by LPC Paulus
You see, with current multi-gpu set ups, be it "single card" or dual card, everything involving workload is handled driver side. As such, if the driver isn't configured properly for the title, then it's not going to distribute the load properly to both gpus. Due to this, you'll end up with one of the gpus doing very little work, if any at all. Think of it sort of like using a dual-core in a single threaded application.
No matter how fancy they set it up, even single pcb, it'll function just like the 7950gx2. GREAT if multi-gpu is supported, or like a single card if it's not.
Final thing to remember, some titles just don't scale well with multi-gpu no matter how much driver work is done.... This is why I've avoided multiple gpus like the plague, whether they're from NVidia or ATi. :yepp: :up: Maybe that'll change when one of the camps takes the time to develop a chip on the pcb to dynamically handle the load balancing.....
But there are more and more great games that benefit from CF from 60-80% and that is a lot
Smells rather like you smoke too much. Card isn't really released yet, drivers aren't ready... and you already call it 'crap' and 'a flop'? :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by LPC Paulus
For one, the drivers aren't finished yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by LPC Paulus
However, it is true that if a game doesn't support CF or work well with CF, then it's not going to be a good experience :down:
That could be a reason but Denny bought the cards, so he should expect to get working drivers / bioses.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Yes I agree but the drivers he has stated he is using are RC drivers...probably the RC2 drivers that are about a month old. I would think the same situation will present itself with the HD3870 X2 as it did with the HD3870 launch: updated WHQL drivers will be available shortly after launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
Can't wait for the review :up: . Are you reviewing this one?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGreg
The review was done now had to be completely rewritten as of yesterday. Bit of a PITA but worth every benchmark I had to redo and every stroke of the keyboard. :up:
Makes me want to save for 2 :rofl: . Can't wait to see how much better it will be then my current setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
will be interesting to see reviews with new driver
In that response, and based in your review (can't wait to read it, you made a very good job with the 3870 one :up:), are you saying that this card will always use CF even if the game does not have CF profile? That's the crucial question about this card.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that the ATI driver team has been working like mad and the drivers have improved because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
So what about my question regarding games without CF profile?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Which ones were you thinking of? Games with traditionally poor Crossfire performance like World in Conflict and Company of Heroes?Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
But I really can't say any more than I have already..... :(
Np point pushing Sky too hard, he has an NDA to adhere to like the rest of the civilized review world.
same here denny
and for the ram doesnt reach 999 too :(
I'm with Vista 64, so I don't know if this I'm going to say happens in XP too. At least 3 of my friends have confirmed this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
In COD4 for example, with, let's say, 4xAA. If you turn OFF CF (single 3870), you get in the DEMO mission:
MIN FPS: 30
AVG FPS: 80
MAX FPS: 160
And then you turn ON CF, and you get:
MIN FPS: 30
AVG FPS: 120
MAX FPS: 305
MIN fps, same as one card. MAX fps, skyrocket. AVG fps, a lot higher, but not caused because in game fps are higher, but because those higher MAX. When you are in the middle of the battle, with lots of smoke and dust, you don't get any benefit at all going from 1 to 2 3870s. In almost all the reviews out there they only focus in AVG, showing you that CF is better, when it actually isn't.
Trackmania Nations, the same thing happens. Same MINs, higher MAX, and higher AVG caused by higher MAX. When all the power of CF is required, you get nothing.
On the other hand, The Cronicles of Riddick, FEAR or NFS Carbon for example works flawlessly with the cards (because they have well stablished CF profile), allowing you to play with 8xAA without an issue.
When is the NDA over?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Tomorow
only 24 hours :)
Ran a few quick runs all at stock on a retail card, using 8.1 driver ....
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/724a18197c.jpg
more here Compare Link
There is a simple explaination for this and it has very little to do with the hardware. I'll draw your attention to the DX10 tests in my XFX 8800GTS 512MB Review. You will notice that in many instances there is very little difference in minumum frame rates between the top three or four cards even though the average FPS differs quite a bit. This happens again and again and probably has to do more with particular parts of a benckmark / game being poorly coded or just needing an insane amount of horsepower to run properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Good example right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I'll ask you a question then. In Trackmania Nations, which show the same behaviour than COD4 with CF (there are a bunch of other games with this behaviour too, that's for sure), changing the executable name to FEAR.exe puts some weird shadow flashes, but the game runs ALWAYS with CF enabled. I mean, those parts where before 30fps and where the second card was idling, are now in the ~70 range. Of course this indicate a driver problem related to CF support, not hardware, not the game itself. So your explanation is good for some games, but not all. COD4 did not show perfomance improvements changing executable name to others. That is what I was asking you a few post before: if ATI team has managed to "driver convert" this internal CF to something that always work, no matter the game you run, no matter where you run it. That was the problem with traditional CF configurations and all my interest in this card is centered in that question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I found this thread listing the current games that are crossfire compatible and some comments.
Drivers seem to follow the release of a game or card for the most part. Still, a bit disappointing atm.Quote:
Games that work
Call of Duty 4: Works really well, good fps gains.
UT3: This works, decent performance gains with CF enabled.
Bioshock: Works Amazing
Medal of Honor Airborne: Minimum 60 fps, one card drops to 35.
Half life 2: All the half life 2 engined games seem to work.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Gives an additional 100 fps at all times, sweet.
Gears of War: It works one cards drops to 50 fps in tested area in CF doesnt.
Hellgate London:Cant run DX10 fails with single card and CF. In DX9 mode 70 fps with single card, CF gets 100-120 same area.
Call of Juarez. Only have the DX9 version 60 fps single, 90 fps CF in tested area.
Gothic 3: Works really good.
Oblivion: Seems to work you might need to patch the game.
World of Warcraft: Crazy fps in this game.
Games that fail or have no improvment gains!
Crysis: Runs but a bit slower then single card i think. Some people can get it to work with crysis hotfix driver in winxp.
Need for Speed Pro Street: CF takes away half the performance.
The Witcher: Freezes up in load with CF.
Colin McRae's DiRT : CF is useless in this game.!
Reviews will come with current drivers soon to help sort this out.:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck47
Quote:
Originally Posted by frguru
whens the release date?Quote:
Originally Posted by eric66
The same goes for CoH. I have seen SO many reviewers (not pointing any fingers) begin to panic when suddenly their cards start topping out at 60-70FPS. Meanwhile, they haven't done their research about the game itself or they would have added the -novsync command like to the .exe path.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Unfortunately, there are so many variables with games and optimizations therein these days that it makes nailing down a performance issue a lesson in futility sometimes.
If you compare the drivers that were out at the beginning of last week to what I have been working with now, it is like night and day. There will ALWAYS be optimizations which need working on but you will have to wait a while longer to see which ones need to be brushed up a bit and which ones are spot on.;)Quote:
COD4 did not show perfomance improvements changing executable name to others. That is what I was asking you a few post before: if ATI team has managed to "driver convert" this internal CF to something that always work, no matter the game you run, no matter where you run it. That was the problem with traditional CF configurations and all my interest in this card is centered in that question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
But that is the reviewers fault, they don't know what they're doing. I'm not one of them, and particulary with this game ;)
Of course there are multiple variables out there, but this particular one, that self-repeated all over the games tested is unnaceptable for me. I wouldn't call it a no optimization, but a malfunction, since the second card is doing nothing when it's more necessary, like I said before.
It's nice to heard that, but I think I'll use a friend's card before buying mine, doing my own test. If just the two RV670 cores always work, this card will be THE card. But if it has all the issues I've faced with 3870CF...
The NDA lifts very soon, right? I want to see your review with the new driver, and with MIN fps too, this data is too important and so many reviewers just don't look at it... :rolleyes:
Most games will have the minimum FPS. Some will not.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Are they Releasing new Catalyst by tomorrow? Also the new drivers should encompass the entire 3xxxx series with the Cat release correct?
Test with C2D E6600 @ 3,6GHz // ASUS P5E // 2GB DDR2 PC6400
Card at defaults settings, higher scores then on the above posted screenshot, unfortunately my cpu spoils the fun for high 3D Mark scores.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...53#post2730853
878MHz clock there.
I dont see why anyone would go for this at this point, with dual chip cards, along comes the support for it, if games fail to support it the card looks bad and does not justify the purchase, at this time the 3870 x2 and 9800gx2 are a waste........with the new chipsets around the corner, summer or fall, buying these would be a big mistake like the 7950gx2.
I just read the Anandtech review and am actually quite shocked at the results with this card. With the exception of of Quake Wars it bested every single single card solution from Nvidia including the GTX. Would one say this card is actually better than my overclocked 8800 Ultra or am I better off sticking with my 8800? I thought the card would have tanked when AA was enabled it but it still did better even when so. I am itching for better performance over my 8800 Ultra especially in FEAR and Crysis and the 3870 X2 seems to do the trick unless I am looking too far into it?
What I don't understand, is that the enthusiast world has shown the OEMs that we're more than willing to pay through the nose for hardware (quad SLI, Skulltrail, et al). Why won't AMD support two of these cards in CF, especially to go along with their quad core processors? Businesses are supposed to cater to the people that pay them, and anyone willing to buy a Dell or HP performance/enthusiast PC would look and say "OOOH! 4 core processor and 4 GPUs!!! MOM!!! BUY ME IT!!!"
From something I read a while ago, the Crossfire architecture supposedly supports a linking of up to 32 cores... At minimum they should support their new baby and everyone willing to buy 2 of these cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
Bah, no problem. Right now, for my 3870 watercooling mod (HSF fits over MCW-60:yepp: ), I'm using the G80 hold down plate. Just had to do some careful measuring and drilling of the plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098
It wasn't that hard to do.
Cool Beans the card is a Winnar!:clap: :clap:
GJ on releasing driver fixes across the board.
:up: :up: :up: :shocked:
What CPU/speed are we looking at to get the most out of these cards?
Same goes for 2x 3870's. 4GHz C2D perhaps?
Finally! A review that actually points one of the real and more important issues with this tipe of cards. 3870CF vs 3870X2 by Driverheaven would be nice too :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverHeaven review
BTW I don't think this can be fixed by driver updates...
I think AMD would love to do that, but at the same time, I don't think it's wise for them to release a pre-mature quad drivers that doesn't perform well in most games. If they did have a really good driver for quad support, yeah, no doubt you'll see them brag about it left right and center.Quote:
Originally Posted by WangChung
This card WILL support 2 of these in crossfire to have quadfire when the X-fire drivers are ready. That's what they have been advertising for months already, didn't you notice? X-fire = up to 4 GPU's. In Vista / DX10.1, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by WangChung
I flashed the card with bios of different wendor that didn't show 860MHz limit and the limit is gone, but it is significant pefromance drop:
3DMark06 score at @860/955
original bios (with 860MHz limit) = 20080
upgraded bios (without the limit) = 19500
How to look for an 860MHz limit in BIOS?
try clocking it to 861 mhz. :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
Wait for W1zzard and I's BIOS Editor. That will be a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
Search for 860 in hex?
Did you notice that ID0 was 42Kb and ID1 was 62Kb for the original BIOS when saved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbogorgon
yes, ID0 is slave card, so that's why
might have to do with memory timings, did you check them?
Yeah likely that your first BIOS was tweaked for better performance..
If 860 is specified directly then it should be this string ... F0 4F 01
Or for 861 ... 54 50 01
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
So, basiclaly we could list which manufacturers have the lock and which dont right?
E.g. Powercolor yes/no
Gecube yes/no
?????
why do they chestitise smtg that wasnt meant to be virgin..