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Chips are Retail, but OEM ...
FPO: 750A, 745A ...
... on default voltage is max OC on Maximus Extreme only 3300MHz for both chips ...
Maximum oc with safe voltage (max 1.45V in BIOS) real 1.38V is for both is about 3800MHz ...
E8400 is not stable at 4GHz at any voltage ... this first 45nm chips are OCers like first Conroes ... nothing special!
Yep I've had 2 E8400's and both will do 4GHz but I wouldn't call it stable
And they both run much hotter than my E6750 at 3.6GHz
ah sh*t. im nervous now.
I'm going out tomorrow to see if 3rd time is a charm.. if I don't get no love the E6750 is going back in
You just need more vcore dude. Give it 1.55v and i suspect it'll have no problems at 4200 (on the 8400 that is).
Why haven't you activated Vdroop control in the BIOS? I'm 100% sure that a maximus extreme has this setting. That should definitely get you somewhere past 3.8 ghz....
I find it very odd that neither chip would do 4 ghz, though (please activate vdroop control first). Since most qx9650's can do 4 ghz at 1.4v or below, and these are from the same process, this doesn't mean that Intel is binning the dyes for the Extreme models, does it ? .......
Later on, i'm going to check what vcore I need on my QX to do 3.8 ghz at the default fsb speed (333)...the last time I tested that, it was the 380 FSB on the 975x making the chip unstable (when 333 * 12 was stable at less vcore than 380 * 10)...
1,55V for a 45nm will kill it much faster than 65nm :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
Did you read his post?Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
He was operating at maximum SAFE Vcore. Why are you asking him to give it 1.55v on air? That's NOT a Conroe/Kentsfield 65nm he's using, you know! He's using Wolfdale/Yorkfield 45nm. (Yorkfield is the quad version, Wolf is the dual version). That can lead to a very dead, or rapidly degrading chip at those voltages without some sub zero. You DO realize that 1.55v through a 45nm chip is the same as 1.65v on a 65nm? Not many people are willing to put that vcore through these chips on air, for any thing besides a suicide run....
Well. I am willing too, i'm just telling him where the problem comes from.
Yeah Loadline Calibration... it works well, and drops only about 0.02, and Load are stable, once you have the voltage there will be no droop at all..
just figure it out, 1.57500 on my board are 1.55, and its the same with any vcore set, and there are no droop at all, stable as a rock.. try it ..set 1.47~ in bios and you will have your 1.45, and then get back to your OC :) and show us!
These results are a little bit below expectations
OBR can we have al ook at the temps plz if you run them eg at 3.6 or 3.8Ghz ??
I just wanna see if these are really worth it , my friend wants to buy an E6850 I told him to wait till these babies popped up... my E6850 was rockstable at 3.8Ghz and benchable at 4ghz but temps were over 65°C under water with only 1.45Vcore (and IHS was as smooth and flat as a babyskin)
If these are pretty hot too I will push him towards a quad...
Currently I have an E2140 in the rig ( damn man a Vid of 1.375 ) and pretty high temps, really cheap chip ( lended to me awaiting my QX ) FSB wall at 362mhz and runs now happily at 2.667 speed but under prime temps run up to 55°C under WC...
Yes, they fall quite below the ES versions that have been benched on air. :(
if i set 1.45V in BIOS, in idle i have in windows at cpu 1.43v ...butunder fully load 1.38-1.39 ... maybe is something with Loadline wrong ...
test under water tomorrow ... but on air with 1.35V real voltage is in Orthos temp about 58C degrees ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
Wow...that definitely looks like "loadline" is NOT working....or not working properly....
I had almost that exact vdroop on my P5W before doing the mod....With the mod, my idle and load voltages are 0.02v below bios setting.
Your load and idle voltage should be virtually identical...
4 ghz may be out of reach but if it could maintain a 1.42 vcore at load, you should have at -least- 3.9 ghz.
Wow. Can't even hit 4ghz? were you drunk?
:rolleyes:
Yeah on air I was getting around 60 degrees in Orthos on both of them
You're not listening dopey, the retails are nowhere near as good as what you've been seeing from the ESQuote:
Originally Posted by trans am
I know. I was just joking with OBR> :) Sorry your chips suck man.Quote:
Originally Posted by godsfist
i can run every benches at 4050MHz ... but not Orthos stableQuote:
Originally Posted by trans am
Do you have 45 nm quad to test?
did both max out around 3.8? Just curious since E8200 is very inexpensive.
so the 4ghz 24/7 use is far from reality again, isn't it?
As long as the new quads (Q9450 really) see 3.6Ghz+ on air, Im all over it.
I hate the silicon, on one E8400 one of the cores is 10+ degrees higher than the other one.. and the other chip both cores are the same but hot as hell, like 15 degrees hotter than my E6750 :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by fireice2
I was just thinking the same. Before it was like wow if the dual cores are hitting 4.5ghz theres no reason for quad. but in reality if they are both hitting around the same clocks then take the 2 extra cores and 6mb more L2 cache.Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
I want some retail Yorkfield results
You wont like the heat if the silicon doesn't get better
I though these processors were much cooler than the conroes.. :(
Oh noes!
I had so high hopes on these. :(
Dinos said that all the guys in down under all did 4GHz Prime with 1.25-1.3V on these, some even primed at 4.5GHz.
Has got to be a different batch that's coming to europe.
ORB, where did you get these?
I hope it isn't all ES hype and better batches soon to come. I was really expecting 4ghz stable as well. :(
They do on stock volts but as every process gets smaller you increase voltage they get extremely hot. thats like 1.5v in 45nm is going to heat like 1.7v in 65nmQuote:
Originally Posted by fireice2
I have QX9650 quad what is orthos stable 4GHz without problems ... but it is ES! These first retail 45 chips seems like first Conroes, the same OC and Temps ... we need improved batches and next better series for higher OC. These first wolfdales are not so special ... and good.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions until we get corroberative evidence. Intel may have just sent some binned duds to Russia to get rid of them. No offence, but testing them "under water" with a modded ps and load line calibration issues? Let's reserve our judgement until more results come in.
I would wait for D0 stepping to come out, it will because the C0 contains errata in the Intel spec specification PDF with a "Plan Fix" next to it.
i'd like to see an e8500 test
yeah, im thinking the exact same thing nowQuote:
Originally Posted by trans am
Here's some 8500 stuff. Not mine. It was on air with the Noctua cooler if i'm not mistaken. The guy just started to put it trough some Orthos so it's not gonna stop at 4.2ghz for sure ;) Low volts for that freq anyway.
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1...5mhzcv0.th.jpghttp://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4...8500lk7.th.jpghttp://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8...137vlb1.th.jpg
hmmm weird... maybe cuz they were Q as well? perhaps L will do better.. but thats just a guess.
i do think we cant compare these with a qx9650 even though its quad and does better... its just different...
my 9650 does 4ghz easy easy too 1.4V to 1.5v or so.. but it costs 4x the price of one of these so we'll just wait and see :)
add: its retail not es :)
Could it be the e8500 is the one that they bin the highest and there is a huge gap between the lower cpu's? maybe there is a reason the chips cost $80 more than the e8400 and it wasn't just for that .5 multi it's highest binned so = highest overclock? Maybe I'm just blowing smoke but it sorta makes sense. Intel could be getting very strict with their binning of chips.
Coolaler did 4ghz @ 1.256v and max was 4851 @ 1.59v. On air btw. Screenshots on his forum (in the Intel section). E8500 retail.
My first conroe e6600 did around 3.2hz 24/7.
My current e6750 runs 3.8ghz without problems.
Lets hope they get better since 4.5ghz seems to be a reason to upgrade but 4ghz isnt ;)
bummer; even less contemplating e8xxx now :p:
these results sound just like e6750/6850 to me.
more propaganda for e8500.
coolalers chips are sooooooooooooooooooooo cherry picked.
but also slightly better clock for clock , more cache and less heat....:shrug:
if i didnt already have a c2d i'd take my chances with an e8400.
...as for yorkfields; they should all be given higher multipliers to make up for their 'poor' fsb ability....which generally for quads is lower than duallies...or is that too sane? :doh:
harhar; if this is any indication of yorkfield perf then 9300/9450 will probably suck a$$ in the fsb department.
more propaganda for the q6600. (& watercooling :ROTF:)
alot of it has to do with actual environmental temps.. coolaler's results you see cpu idle temps between 29-35C even at 4800+mhz on air... i can't get those temps even on water cause my room ambients between 26-34C these days hehQuote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
I got 2x E8500 Q740A493T cpus one does 4000mhz at 1.28v and other at 1.304v prime95 but on Dtek Fuzion H20 cooling.
This is the better of the 2 cpus I have 10-15FSB higher max FSB than other
Super Pi 1M = 9.953s @4638Mhz - 8.5 x 545FSB
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Bli...1m_9s953ms.png
Super Pi 32M = 10m 13.625s @4547Mhz - 8.5 x 535FSB
This set of 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 didn't like 32M with tigher than tRAS 9 much, so might try a different set later. But 32M time seems a bit slow heh.
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Bli...0m13s625ms.png
Wprime v1.55 32M & 1024M @4547Mhz - 8.5 x 535FSB
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Bli...ime155_all.png
Nice testing Eva :)
Im not suprised, we saw the same exact thing when Preseler was about to be released. Plenty of people with ESs got over 5ghz, and how much did mine do? 4.15.
Its just more of the same to be honest, if it is what I suspect (average of 3.6~3.8) that will re-affirm my decision to wait for Nehelm
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu..._12.html#sect0
"Now let’s move on to the most interesting part of our test session: Wolfdale overclocking experiments. We pin a lot of hopes on the new CPUs from this stand point, because 45nm technology and some other features, such as lower heat dissipation, allow us to expect the new processors to hit frequencies unattainable for the previous Core 2 Duo models.
We used the same test platform for our overclocking experiments as we did for our performance tests. The CPUs were cooled down with Zalman CNPS9700 LED cooler. The CPU stability during overclocking was tested with a 30-minute run of Prime95 25.5 utility.
First of all we tried overclocking our Core 2 Duo E8500 sample without raising its Vcore. In this case the CPU ran stably at 3.66GHz frequency.
Of course, it is a very good result. Core 2 Duo on 65nm cores could reach these frequencies only at increased Vcore. However, we wouldn’t stop here and continued our tests with increased core voltage setting.
Actually, our tests showed that Wolfdale responds very good to Vcore increase. But we didn’t aim for record-breaking speeds, so we only increased the processor Vcore in the BIOS Setup to 1.5V that resulted into the actual 1.42-1.46V taking into account Vdroop. This voltage increase is relatively harmless for a processor using an efficient air cooler and is acceptable for systems running 24/7. However, even in this case our Core 2 Duo E8500 didn’t disappoint us at all.
We managed to get this processor to run stably at 4.37GHz. No doubt: Wolfdale CPUs will become another overclockers’ favorite, because Conroe processors could hardly hit these speeds at extremely high voltages and with special cooing systems involved. By the way, our processor running at 4.37GHz retained quite acceptable thermal mode of only 70°C under workload.
All the above described experiments were performed without changing the clock frequency multiplier: it remained at 9.5x in all cases. That is why the maximum FSB frequency in previous experiments remained 460MHz. However, it would also be interesting to see how well Wolfdale processors can cope with high bus speeds. Therefore, we performed another experiment aimed at finding the maximum FSB frequency for our CPU, i.e. its FSB Wall.
As we found out, the maximum FSB speed for our processor was 540MHz. After that the system would lose stability. So, we can state the new processors have pretty high FSB Wall.
However, great Core 2 Duo E8500 overclocking results were slightly shadowed by the less impressive performance of the youngest model – Core 2 Duo E8200. Our Core 2 Duo E8200 test sample could only work at 3.2GHs at its nominal Vcore setting.
By raising Vcore we could hit higher frequency, but stalled at only 3.88GHz.
Of course, this is not a bad result at all, but nevertheless, Core 2 Duo E8200 yielded significantly to its elder brother, Core 2 Duo E8500. So, it turns out that Wolfdale overclocking success depends a lot on the CPU sample
So it seems that the clocks are all over the place, as expected. There were alot of great Conroes out of the group that were there during release week. My e6400 can barely do 3.2Ghz stable, others even with the same batch number could hit 3.6-3.8. The really bad clockers came around about two months after release and some couldn't get 3.0. I don't think that the Conroes at launch were that much worse clockers than the ESs. 3.8Ghz for a processor that has better performance per clock isn't that bad.
This is what happens when people buy the first chips off the line. Let them get their process and QC in order and have some incremental improvement then jump in. Always wait at least 2 months from first general release if you are getting a permanent CPU. Longer is better.
What does es mean?
3rd one will do 4GHz like the others but requires too much voltage and isn't what I'd call 24/7 stable
3.6GHz on very little voltage is the sweet spot by the looks of it
OP: Notice the stepping on that first chip is SLAPP... hm...
Can you say noob?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glow9
Ribbing aside, ES = Experimental Sample prior to retail release not to be sold to the general public.:cool:
In this forum it sometimes means "Extra Special" cherry picked processor too...
Erm... who is the noob? It's "Engineering Sample"
Haha you caught my senior moment...my e6750ES isn't that special either...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain665
one of the retailers here in nz have gotten there E8200 4Ghz
- Got an E8200 running on an IP35 Pro @ 500x8 (1.3275v) :D [stock QX9650 hsf]
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?i...glecardbg6.jpg
Hmmmm.. I have SLAPLQuote:
Originally Posted by Kain665
In my experience it means "Excessive Speculation"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain665
Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
is it Orthos stable? I bet no!
nzbleach here on xs got one of them, hes testing it now and i think he did get it orthos stable, but he still ran 06 with only 1.33v so if its not stable yet, it should be stable with more.
I woudnt give to much hopes on 3.6+ ghz on air, since it comes in the first place with a 8x multiplier, second limitation is the FSB wall, I saw some ES chips that are walled around 460fsb, just like the Q6600 , of course we need to see some retail results.Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
retail E8200 prime stable for 30 mins on blend. Havent primed any longer.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0mod/4GJPG.jpg
what good is that then?not to sound rude...Quote:
Originally Posted by OBR
well not everything need the be "super stable delux orthos mega" hehe :)
sure its a great point where u can see what the cpu are stable as, but if you can loop 3dmark several times, play game like COD4, crysis , use your computer all day long without crash, then it seems stable to me :) orthos and prime are strange sometimes, and BSOD shortly even though you have done all above..
I ordered my E6600 on release day. It will do 3.4GHz on 1.55v 24/7 stable, but anything much over that and it putters out. 385-390 seems to by my FSB wall no matter what voltage, on air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbenator
HEY OBR,
I got a mediocre e8400 like you - can't do 4ghz orthos stable.
However, can do 3.8-3.9ghz orthos stable.
3.6ghz on stock volts.
Gets quite hot even at 1.45v during testing...
Need to get an aussie chip...=(
It is either stable or it isn't. It's like pregnancy. She either is or isn't, no half way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infa
Who cares about Orthos stable really? It's not like you get this CPU's to "play" Orthos or think about "hmm... i'm bored... let's start up some Orthos" anyway. Your CPU will never get stressed in real life like it does with Orthos so no point in going for lower clocks just to get it "orthos stable".
Well this is starting to suck... few months ago, psyched to get a penryn quad, but with 8 or 8.5 multi's and limited FSB, thats a total waste unless I want to take up the sport of video encoding.
Then maybe the E8500 and get 4.2+... and now thats iffy. I might still gamble $300 on E8500, though would just be for fun, performance wise I am likely to end up with zilch.
I wonder if amd was competitive if we would have 9 multis on some of the cheaper (penryn) quads like the (9x on the) q6600.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rge
:confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
QFT :up:
Ouch, feel sorry for some of you guys getting bad retail E8400's, 4ghz stable is nothing for mine, needs 1.35V, and that seems higher than most other people with retail E8400's that I have seen..
I like seeing orthos stable because it is the only way to objectively prove to others it is a usable overclock.
I can throw up a superpi run at 4.3+ and claim I am gaming for hours without crashes with it. And maybe I am and maybe I am not, who knows.
Thats not to say I dont like seeing max fsb and max OC, that is interesting to see and test as well. But I also like to see max possible 24/7 settings, and that is best objectively shown to others by orthos, prime stable.
Ok, that did not come out quite right, I meant maybe we would have 9x on cheaper penryns, like the 9 multiplier on q6600.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsx2
I think the biggest problem with penryn is that people are expecting it to do well now. Not in a year when things mature a bit. By then, no one will really care that much about one that'll do 4.5ghz with 1.36v anymore. That is, is nehalem is a success.
Jesus G1raffe I'm in Melbourne too and bought 3 E8400's trying to get 4GHz stable :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by g1raffe
By the way what does CPU-Z say your Vcore is when you have 1.35V in the bios?
This is why you don't buy the first silicon off the line...Quote:
Originally Posted by godsfist
Yeah yeah we all know that.. but I'm a reseller for Altech and AustraliaIT and actually make a few bucks when I resell them so it's no biggie for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Speederlander
Well after some testing it's still better than an e6600 or e6750:
e6600 3.6ghz 1.43v orthos blend air lapped
e6750 3.6ghz 1.44v orthos blend air
e8400 3.6ghz 1.24v orthos blend air (stock volts)
3.8ghz 1.30v orthos blend air
Will test 3.9ghz later. This chip does not scale well with increased voltage on air from my previous attempts at 4ghz air testing...not even up to 1.45v...
Superpi times at the same ghz are slightly faster...
Asus p5k vanilla - pencil modded - bios 805
Yeah it's hard to b1tch, there's extra cache and new instructionsQuote:
Originally Posted by LagunaX
So its like a G0 stepping of the newer cpus right.
Unstable in Orthos, or Prime etc, means the system is generating errors. You may not see them in everyday use of the system. Not until it's too late anyway. As the errors build on your hard drive, the crashes and BSODs will start and grow more frequent, until you have to reload. If you are lucky, you don't lose anything when it crashes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
As I said, your system is either stable, or it's not.
True datQuote:
Originally Posted by Capt Proton
You should give Folding@Home a try...Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
OBR
jeez man your threads are doing my head in sometimes
how can you make such a conclusion on a couple of chips tests :rolleyes:
have a look here mate
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=642651
E8400/E8500 mainly purchased in Oz and all CPUs are hitting monster clocks on air
you really need to give it time matey
i bought a couple of E8500 CPUs like eva and mine bench up to 4.7GHz on Corsair Nautilus 500 no worries and it's summer in Australia
You sure its not your RAM limiting you or something? Whats the highest voltage you have tried up to(windows, not BIOS)Quote:
Originally Posted by godsfist
Whatever I set in the BIOS becomes ~0.12V lower in windows, so 1.35V will give ~1.23V.
I need to set ~1.47V in the BIOS, giving ~1.35V in CPU-Z for 4ghz Prime95 stable.
I've done 1.50V and it is almost stable at 4GHz but not quite, I have the same Vdrop as youQuote:
Originally Posted by g1raffe
I disagree about the first run chips being inferior. My E6300 was packaged in 07/06 and bought 08/06. It ran 533FSB x 7 (3730Mhz) with my old P5B vanilla and reached the same 533FSB stably with my new P5K Deluxe. It booted at 540FSB, but the voltage required was more than my Freezer 7 could handle. The cpu been used reliably 24/7 ever since (490FSB x 7 = 3430Mhz @ 1.35v).
I am planning to buy the E8400 and just plop it in my existing system. I anticipate being able to run it at, say 450FSB x 9 = 4050Mhz for 24/7 use.
Anything less, then the 2-3% performance increase does not justify of cost of upgrading to the Wolfdale.
which stores have the E8400 in stock in aussie that ship internationally?
they saving the nicer chips for e8500 - which is as it should be i suppose.
so cant expect miracles from all 82/8400's...
will chips get better or worse over time?; either is possible.
i'll wait and see whether there are any mediocre e8500's, as i'm sure thats wot i would get based on previous experience....so 4 me it aint worth the $$
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...ves/nelson.gif
4 some1 looking to upgrade to a c2d i would not get anything but a penryn now.
i dont even see the point of having an e8200 at the current pricing - ridiculously close to 8400 in pricing....and they are basically the same oc ability?
just have 8200 or 8500.:rolleyes:
Are people complaining about MHz, or testing for FSB?
:p:
Lets see some retail FSB testing, so we can see what kinda numbers we can pull if cooling isnt a limiting factor ;)
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5...1m8735szm0.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by K404
Still nowhere to be found here in The Netherlands... just great :(
Where do you guys get them?
Preferably shops that ship internationally... no make that worldwide LOL :D
if it can run the user's usual cpu-intensive app (e.g. video encoding and etc. doesn't have to be necessarily orthos), why can it not be good?Quote:
Originally Posted by railmeat
So that was SetFSB achieved? What is the best FSB you can boot into and do things with a modicum of stability?Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
with both cores enabled 566MHz (3DMARK06 stable)
i've posted 561 tests i did but did do some higher FSB as well
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6...putestsam2.png
Phase or water?Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Try crunching or encoding video. Sieving will beat the hell out of your processor, I've nevere seen temps as high as when I'm sieving.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
I don't deal with stuff like that so... For real life stability i use compiling since i'm a Linux user. Compiling brings my temps to around 55-58C so i think it's pretty stressfull.
BTW: by Orthos stable i mean 8 hours Orthos stable. At my current settings (in my sig) i'm Orthos stable for around 3 hours or so then an error pops out of the blue on one of the cores. I agree that if Orthos craps out in less then 30mins then you should not consider those settings as stable IRL.
Max stable FSB for me is ~530 on E8400, nothing too special.Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
SS phaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Speederlander
water 530MHz dual 32M Superpi stable on both E8500 CPUs i have
nice clock for a few pi runs,but what can u call stable GOOD air\water for the 8500? but what in your mind is 24\7 stable,GAMING(intensive)with NO issues etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22