M3A overclocking

I finaly recieved my M3A mobo last week and as there is no oc thread for that board i'll start one.

http://www.hardwarereactor.de/upload...fi-ap_spez.gif

http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_62187yh.jpg

The Asus FTP Site with Bios Updates is here or here.
Asus Forum(no Asus tech support in there).

Found another thread about the board at legit review here and another one at techPowerUp here.

If you have trouble with the onboard soundcard read this thread on majorgeeks.

There is only one Bios version (0301) available atm. Now this bios has very limited options to oc a new phenom cpu but it did not that bad with an AM2 cpu. The bios does not include the tlb fix.

The board uses an new clock chip (IT8716F-S 0737-DXS), for whom i could not find a tool to modify the ref HT under windows.
AOD allows only cpu core multi and ram timing modifications with this board.

With a phenom cpu it is not yet possible to modiy the cpu multi in the bios if cool'n'quiet is disabled.
Also i was unable to boot with prozessor voltage set to anything beside Auto.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_6221j4w.jpg

In terms of ram timing modification this board has more to offer than it's ancestor M2A.

If an AM2 cpu is in use or an AM2+ cpu is in use it allows setting CAS/TRCD/TRP/TRAS.

If an AM2+ cpu is used it allows those settings
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_622231c.jpg

With M2A-VM it was possible to ramp up the cpu voltages up to 1,55V + 100mV. M3A has no +100mV option so the max cpu voltage is 1,55V.

Ram voltages can be bumped up to 2,25V in oposite to the 2,1V max the M2A-VM did.

So overclocking phenom's with this bios version is a no go atm. No tools under windows and very limited bios settings.

I tried to oc an BE-2400 (2,3MHz, 65nm, G0) via bios settings and found that the board can boot with an ref HT ~340MHz (M2A-VM ~300MHz).
With 1,55V cpu voltage i was able to reach around 3,35MHz (M2A-VM maxed out ~3,2MHz with 1,6V) with watercooling. Not really stable but i could run super pi.

11,5 x ref HT 292
http://www.abload.de/thumb/292x115x4-4-3-5-14-7zu6.jpg

10 x ref HT 320
http://www.abload.de/thumb/320x105x4-4-3-5-21qbi.jpg

Overall the cpu oc'ed with lower cpu voltages than on the M2A-VM.

At legit reviews i found those posts:

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Well the 6400 has like no overhead for over clocking but I clocked it stable to 3.52 in like 5 minutes using AI overclock. Just set the AI overclock to manual, increase the FSB to the freq you want and the board adjusts appropriately. I can't say how it'll work for a larger over clock on that cpu. I did stick in a X2 4200 that runs at 2.2, did the same thing, bumped it up to FSB 240 Multiplier 11, gave me 2.64 ghz, had to bump the vcore one notch and drop hyper transport to 4 and it ran stable on orthos for an hour. I started with AI over clock, ran a little funky, so I manually bumped vcore and dropped hyper transport ran good after that.

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Hey Ken, I dropped multiplier to 10x and pushed FSB to 360, got 3.6 stable 15 minutes then temps started to creep (55C), ordered a ThermalRight 120 Ultra and A Vantec Stealth 120MM today. Should solve Temp and noise problems. Had it up to 3.52 with 16x stable same thing temp creep. The IceTank cooler does fine until you put full load on. I'm waiting until the cooler comes in before I push it (for my sanity's sake).

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One sidenote: The board works flawless with Linux, no noacpi noapic irqpoll options where required to boot. I like that.

Waiting for a new bios with better phenom oc capabilities now. :coffee:

Tried to find the max ref HT for the phenom at stock.
Running prime95 now with 220MHz ref HT and it is stable since 20 minutes now with cpu ~56° (EDIT: failed after 25 minutes trying 215MHz now). For comparison on the M2A-VM it required 1,275V to run stable at stock and ~1,4V to run at 220MHz.

CPU-Z does not read the HT and NB speed correct and does not validate.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/cpuzgpf.jpg

AOD does even worse
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod109u.jpg
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod2y44.jpg

I did not yet tried to oc with a sata disc attached. M2A-VM just trashed my raptor again. I got it back from RMA and tried to boot linux one time with 220MHz ref HT. I stuck during sata controller inizialisation and did not want to boot. Found the disc had a few bad blocks so I'll send it back once again.

subscribed - got my board a few days ago but haven't been feeling well enough to tear down the old machine and build the new one. M3A is not a top of the line board so it's not too much of a surprise that the options are limited. The board I really wanted would have been about $70 more and I just couldn't justify it.j

Good to know I won't have to disable the TLB fix - didn't want that anyway.

Have you tried the overdrive utility with it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twilyth

subscribed - got my board a few days ago but haven't been feeling well enough to tear down the old machine and build the new one. M3A is not a top of the line board so it's not too much of a surprise that the options are limited. The board I really wanted would have been about $70 more and I just couldn't justify it.j

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I ordered it because i was curious about the new platforms power consumption. Plan to buy a more expensive board once the platform has matured.
On the M2A-VM the first bios supporting phenom (1501) had the same issue as the M3A, no cpu multi adjustment was possible. It worked with the nex version (1601).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twilyth

Good to know I won't have to disable the TLB fix - didn't want that anyway.

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I think it will be included in a future bios version, the latest M2A-VM (1603) bios had the fix applied and no bios option to disable it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twilyth

Have you tried the overdrive utility with it?

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Yes and it is pretty useless at the moment. I added a few screenies in my second post.
It calculates a wrong ref HT (176MHz instead of 215MHz) out of a wrong read nb multiplier (11 instead of 9).

176 ~= 1800/11*215/200

Also it can only read CPU VID at the moment all other voltages are reported as zero.
It only allows cpu multi, CPU VID and Memory timing modifications.

Tried NbFid modification with WPRCEDIT.
It was already mentioned by thesavage in the amd forum, the board seems to run with an 11x multi. I don't believe it because high nb clocks are known to cause problems with phenom. I think the speed is missreported.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/wpre-nb11wbw.jpg

After setting it to 9x at least AMD power monitor and cpu-z showing correct nb speed values, the ref HT in AOD is unaffected.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/wpre-nb9av7.jpg

If i modify and reboot it eighter resets the value to 00111h (7+4=11) or does not boot (<00100h).

LOL CPU-Z Channels # switched from Dual/Unganged to Single/Ganged for a short time.

There is a new Bios version(0406) available for
download.
alternative download

This bios includes the tlb fix. It can not be disabled via bios, but AOD and CrystalCPU works.

The cpu multi can now be modified (8-11 with 9500).

http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_62309e8.jpg

Also the bios allows modifying CPU and NB VID in the range 0.8-1.25V now but the CPU VDDC field has gone.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_6231jrq.jpg
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_6232l6w.jpg

The memory timings submenu has changed, it does no longer show all these options
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_622231c.jpg

It does not allow to configure dct0 or dct1 but only both dct's.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_6233dqk.jpg

The memory runs in ganged mode and there is no bios option to switch to unganged.

There is one nice new setting called process downcore. It allows disabling 1-3 cores.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/img_6234da3.jpg
Disabling 3 cores saves ~14W DC, two cores saves ~5W DC and one core saves ~3W DC in idle.

The NB multi is now at 9x and wprcedit shows the correct value 00101b. I tried 00100b with 1x HT but the system did not restart.

Prime95 failed after an hour yesterday with ref HT 215MHz and after half an hour with 220MHz (Ram-V 2,1V everything else auto).

Today i tried it with CPU VID and NB VID at 1,25V and it failed after a few seconds. With only one core enabled it's stable since half an hour with ref HT 230 MHz at ~41&#176;.

Guess I need more CPU VDDC to reach higher speeds so i have to wait for the next bios.

Thanks for posting that new bios, seems to be a little friendlier with the G2 Brisbane (I've been trying a BE-2400 and the 5000+ BE).

Looks to me like this bios is set up to really work with AOD and do all the serious O/C from within Windows. I have had zero luck with AOD (beta version .14) on this board/cpu combo. AOD locks my machine no matter what every time I hit "Apply". :mad:

I was able to get 3150Mhz Orthos stable with stock volt (1.344) and DDR2-667, idle temps around 36C, load temps at 51C using a Zerotherm Butterfly, HT at x4. This was the 5000+ BE, 13x @ 240 fsb.

I know I can go higher but there just aren't many DRAM options (compared to even my Biostar TA690G). Do you guys know if I can set Max ASynch Latency in the Bios?

Thanks for the update justapost, thought i may pass on some more speculation it may also be that the pci bus is not locked i have had my drive fail whilst overclocking. Also the asus forum is reporting issues with the atheros lan.

Im getting one of these soon for my phenom 9600, is it ok if u dont want to overclock ?

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Originally Posted by Evax

Im getting one of these soon for my phenom 9600, is it ok if u dont want to overclock ?

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yup:D

I don't know about the K10 cores, but the G2 Brisbane loves this mobo. Just messing around, I can undervolt the CPU and RAM at stock speeds quite nicely for an extremely quiet, low-heat setup. (Antec Solo w/Seasonic 430).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

Thanks for posting that new bios, seems to be a little friendlier with the G2 Brisbane (I've been trying a BE-2400 and the 5000+ BE).

Looks to me like this bios is set up to really work with AOD and do all the serious O/C from within Windows. I have had zero luck with AOD (beta version .14) on this board/cpu combo. AOD locks my machine no matter what every time I hit "Apply". :mad:

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Nice, thought AOD works only with phenoms. What can be modified if you use an AM2 cpu?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

I was able to get 3150Mhz Orthos stable with stock volt (1.344) and DDR2-667, idle temps around 36C, load temps at 51C using a Zerotherm Butterfly, HT at x4. This was the 5000+ BE, 13x @ 240 fsb.

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Do you use DDR2-667 ram? Have you tried to find the max ref HT with the 5000+ BE?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

I know I can go higher but there just aren't many DRAM options (compared to even my Biostar TA690G). Do you guys know if I can set Max ASynch Latency in the Bios?

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U can't even the options 0301 had with a phenom did not allow to set the max async latency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thesavage

Thanks for the update justapost, thought i may pass on some more speculation it may also be that the pci bus is not locked i have had my drive fail whilst overclocking. Also the asus forum is reporting issues with the atheros lan.

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Np, the ftp site allways has the bios files a few days before they show up on their website.
Is this hard drive problem a known issue with SB600? Damaged three sata disks on an M2A-VM. Had no issues with an old 20GB ide hd.
The atheros lan works without problems but i used an wxp install cd with most hotfixes and latest driver pack stuff integrated. The atheros driver coming with driver pack is the same version asus packed on their cd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evax

Im getting one of these soon for my phenom 9600, is it ok if u dont want to overclock ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

I don't know about the K10 cores, but the G2 Brisbane loves this mobo. Just messing around, I can undervolt the CPU and RAM at stock speeds quite nicely for an extremely quiet, low-heat setup. (Antec Solo w/Seasonic 430).

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Tried to find the lowest possible CPu and NB VID with the phenom.
Ran stable with 1,1875V CPU VID and ~1,05V NB VID.
I tried the AI Gear tool from the driver cd but it froze my system.
I agree with you, it's a nice board in terms of energy efficiency. Also it has an higher max ref HT as it's predecessor m2a. I could reach ~100MHz more oc with the be-2400 that on the m2a-vm.
As for phenom it is too early to say anything final about overclocking, bios need to mature here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justapost

I ordered it because i was curious about the new platforms power consumption. Plan to buy a more expensive board once the platform has matured.
On the M2A-VM the first bios supporting phenom (1501) had the same issue as the M3A, no cpu multi adjustment was possible. It worked with the nex version (1601).

I think it will be included in a future bios version, the latest M2A-VM (1603) bios had the fix applied and no bios option to disable it.

Yes and it is pretty useless at the moment. I added a few screenies in my second post.
It calculates a wrong ref HT (176MHz instead of 215MHz) out of a wrong read nb multiplier (11 instead of 9).

176 ~= 1800/11*215/200

Also it can only read CPU VID at the moment all other voltages are reported as zero.
It only allows cpu multi, CPU VID and Memory timing modifications.

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Justapost, thanks for the feedback. :)

Those monitoring readings are incorrect because your BIOS>Phenom support is bad. Those AOD readings are only displaying what you're BIOS is telling it.;)
Your BIOS is not the first, every bad ASUS BIOS I've seen which lacks support for Phenom runs the NB multiplier async with the core multiplier, and so that messes Phenom monitor reading up in ALL software but CPUZ (however CPUZ won't validate in this state because it detects errors).

The real clock speeds in the above AOD screenshots (faulty ones) are NB MHz=HT MHz in CPUZ and CPUZ CPU/RAM is correct. ;)

If you set 9x multi on Phenom, it'll boot up just fine and AOD will read the correct values. If voltage/memory control is missing in AOD, it's because of your board BIOS lacking support for it.

If you can change CPU/NB VIDs, then again this is a BIOS feature. However Sammi did say that the CPU VID is usually locked (1.20/1.25). Bad supported ASUS boards would show high MHz for Phenom and high volts and high and low VIDs but in actual fact were not changing anything at all (AOD will show this properly). So keep testing to see what the state is.

AOD works with X2 CPUs just fine. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Justapost, thanks for the feedback. :)

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Bounced back. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Those monitoring readings are incorrect because your BIOS>Phenom support is bad. Those AOD readings are only displaying what you're BIOS is telling it.;)

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You are right, my description was inaccurate. To be correct the bios writes the wrong value into the registers and AOD reads those wrong values correct. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Your BIOS is not the first, every bad ASUS BIOS I've seen which lacks support for Phenom runs the NB multiplier async with the core multiplier, and so that messes Phenom monitor reading up in ALL software but CPUZ (however CPUZ won't validate in this state because it detects errors).

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Uhm must add a screenie for the latest bios. That one writes the correct valuest to the registers, so AOD and CPU-Z report the correct values now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

The real clock speeds in the above AOD screenshots (faulty ones) are NB MHz=HT MHz in CPUZ and CPUZ CPU/RAM is correct. ;)

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Well i could set the ht multi with 0301 bios and it was reported correct in cpu-z. I remember tictac mentioned the register storing the ht multi once in an barcelona thread but i did not check that value with wprcedit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

If you set 9x multi on Phenom, it'll boot up just fine and AOD will read the correct values.

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nb multi u mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

If voltage/memory control is missing in AOD, it's because of your board BIOS lacking support for it.

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Memory settings work in AOD. The bios lacks a field for CPU VDDC.
But in terms of ref HT it is AOD/Clockgen/Systool lacking support for the clock chip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

If you can change CPU/NB VIDs, then again this is a BIOS feature. However Sammi did say that the CPU VID is usually locked (1.20/1.25).

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Who is sammi could not find a user with that nick here. :confused:
Wasn't it macci saying CPU VID is locked in AOD? Anyway i can set values below 1,2V for CPU VID in bios.
I'm pretty sure that the new bios modifies CPU and NB VID and not CPU VDDC and NB voltage. So the labels (prozessor and northbridge voltage) are wrong, as the bios does not yet show up on the website i assume it's experimental wip atm.
Both fields are locked upward at 1,25V. The first bios had only a CPU VDDC field labeld as prozessor voltage going up to 1,55V (but nothing beside auto worked).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Bad supported ASUS boards would show high MHz for Phenom and high volts and high and low VIDs but in actual fact were not changing anything at all (AOD will show this properly). So keep testing to see what the state is.

AOD works with X2 CPUs just fine. :)

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Bios settings prozessor voltage 1,2V prozessor-NB voltage 1,1875V
http://www.abload.de/thumb/bios1qjq.jpg

AOD shows 1,2V CPU VID but no CPU VDDC and allows CPU VID modification.
Also added wprcedit and cpu-z to show correct multi readings.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/cpuvid1ceh.jpg

Bios settings prozessor voltage 1,1875V prozessor-NB voltage 1,175V
http://www.abload.de/thumb/bios22j8.jpg

AOD shows 1,1875V CPU VID
http://www.abload.de/thumb/cpuvid2gud.jpg

Found that it is possible to set a lower ht multi with AOD in the range 6-9 with a 9x multi or in the range 1-5 with a 4x multi in bios.
Could not measure a difference with Cinebench10 OpenL but the systems power consumption dropped ~2W going from 9x to 6x.

justapost have you tried the crystal cpu tlb fix on this board with the latest bios? Also i found the performance plunge with this new bios is so bad that in the trackmania series the game has lost 50&#37;+ frames. There also seems to be no difference with aod overdrive and the tlb settings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justapost

Nice, thought AOD works only with phenoms. What can be modified if you use an AM2 cpu?

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Just about everything for the memory. Not so much for the CPU. But, everytime I try to apply settings, it freezes the machine. So, while AOD may work with X2 cpus, it doesn't work with X2 cpus and the M3A. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justapost

Do you use DDR2-667 ram? Have you tried to find the max ref HT with the 5000+ BE?

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I'm using some Patriot DDR2-800, cas 4, etc.... running 2T. No, I haven't tried to find max ref HT yet, I was going to wait it out for the next BIOS and maybe the next AOD.

The 5000+ BE starts to get nice and warm at 1.4V and full load. :D I've got a TI-128 I may try out, but the Zerotherm seems like a decent unit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thesavage

justapost have you tried the crystal cpu tlb fix on this board with the latest bios? Also i found the performance plunge with this new bios is so bad that in the trackmania series the game has lost 50%+ frames. There also seems to be no difference with aod overdrive and the tlb settings.

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With TLB fix: Everest Memory Read 5622MB/s
http://www.abload.de/thumb/yellow90q.jpg

Without TLB fix (disabled via Crystal CPU): Everest Memory Read 6943MB/s
http://www.abload.de/thumb/redsfr.jpg

With TLB fix (switched to ggreen/black mode via AOD): Everest Memory Read 5568MB/s
http://www.abload.de/thumb/green75n.jpg

Wonder what that last mode does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

Just about everything for the memory. Not so much for the CPU. But, everytime I try to apply settings, it freezes the machine. So, while AOD may work with X2 cpus, it doesn't work with X2 cpus and the M3A. :D

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Ah ok, so no ref HT modification with X2 also. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

I'm using some Patriot DDR2-800, cas 4, etc.... running 2T. No, I haven't tried to find max ref HT yet, I was going to wait it out for the next BIOS and maybe the next AOD.

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Strang, i have two different sets of G.Skill DDR2-800 one is better in terms of ref HT the other one in terms of latencies. Both have no problems with an ref HT ~320 without tweaking max async latency. Max async latency changes here if i use different dimm slots btw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noee

The 5000+ BE starts to get nice and warm at 1.4V and full load. :D I've got a TI-128 I may try out, but the Zerotherm seems like a decent unit.

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I only have a zalman reseraptor 1 plus. Well the temps dropped from 84° to 70° under full load with 1,55V. :rolleyes:
Aiming more for silence here. I overclock only for curiosity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justapost

nb multi u mean?

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Yep. ;)

Quote:

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Memory settings work in AOD. The bios lacks a field for CPU VDDC.
But in terms of ref HT it is AOD/Clockgen/Systool lacking support for the clock chip.

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Yeah thats good and bad. You have no Core Voltage control, as though the BIOS engineer didnt have a clue what the VID was and thought it was the VCore. VID alone wont get you anywhere in terms of oc Im afraid. :(

Quote:

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Who is sammi could not find a user with that nick here. :confused:

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Macciś name. ;)

Quote:

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Wasn't it macci saying CPU VID is locked in AOD? Anyway i can set values below 1,2V for CPU VID in bios.

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Yep, upwards locked to ~1.20-1.25.

Quote:

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I'm pretty sure that the new bios modifies CPU and NB VID and not CPU VDDC and NB voltage. So the labels (prozessor and northbridge voltage) are wrong, as the bios does not yet show up on the website i assume it's experimental wip atm.

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Looking at your ss, I agree.

Quote:

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Found that it is possible to set a lower ht multi with AOD in the range 6-9 with a 9x multi or in the range 1-5 with a 4x multi in bios.

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Try AquaMark3 with HT changing. It may show you a difference (in the GFX score).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Yep. ;)

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Does not boot if i change it, already tried that with both bios versions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah thats good and bad. You have no Core Voltage control, as though the BIOS engineer didnt have a clue what the VID was and thought it was the VCore. VID alone wont get you anywhere in terms of oc Im afraid. :(

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I guess the engineer wanted a bios to play with VID's and was too lazy to change the labels. The bios is only available via ftp and I'm happy that they share the beta's this way.
VID's aint that bad for dc. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Macciś name. ;)

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That simplifies things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Yep, upwards locked to ~1.20-1.25.

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As does reading.
Looking at your ss, I agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Try AquaMark3 with HT changing. It may show you a difference (in the GFX score).

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Aquamark3 ends with a blackscreen here could not fix that issue. Tried Cinebench10's OpenGL benchmark, but found no difference.
I'll try specview.
I plan to measure my system components power consumption once again on the weekend with the M2A-VM and the M3A.
Made a few changes on my setup during my last measurements and the hd i used is on rma right now, that adds an inaccuracy i want to avoid.

BTW, are you still waiting for the BE-2300 and the 9600BE?

There is a small patch for aquamark that i think fixes the black screen and also exiting without a score. But not for 64bit o's.

Waiting to get back home and test this CPU I have justapost. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thesavage

justapost have you tried the crystal cpu tlb fix on this board with the latest bios? Also i found the performance plunge with this new bios is so bad that in the trackmania series the game has lost 50&#37;+ frames. There also seems to be no difference with aod overdrive and the tlb settings.

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You are right the performance drops.

Crystal Mark MEM (2,2GHz 800 5-5-5-15)
0301: 24025
0406: 20538

FritzChess 4.2
0301: 10,73
0406: 9,86

I've already tried the patch (replaced the direcpll.dll) after that it did no longer fail during runtime, but it never shows results.

In SpecView Perf there where no differences between 9x and 5x multi.
Tried it with 3dmark. Very small differences in scores with 5x and 9x multi ~4870+-10. But between 1x and 5x the difference is valuable ~4400 vs ~4700.
So AOD can really change the HT mult. I thought those changes require a reboot, after reading that post from tictac.
With an muli in the range 1-5 in bios the multi can be changed between 1 and 5. With an multi above 5 in bios the multi can be changed in the range 6-9.

Saw someone found a way to fix the atheros driver over at the asus forum.

Ran a few benchmarks at stock ref HT (200MHz) with CPU multi 11x and Ram at 800 5-5-5-15-21.

1. Bios Version/TLB-Fix

Mem: Single (1 Module)

3DMark06

Version (TLB-Fix): Score/SM2/SM3/CPU
0301(off): 4806/1592/1996/3240
0406(off): 4802/1589/1995/3237
0406(on ): 4780/1586/1993/3116

Equal performance with fix off.

FritzChess

Version (TLB-Fix): Score
0301(off): 10,75
0406(off): 9,71
0406(on ): 9,63

Performance drop with new bios and with fix.

2. HT Multi

Mem: Ganged (4 Modules)
TLB-Fix: On

3DMark06

Multi: Score/SM2/SM3/CPU
1: 4449/1507/1799/3143
5: 4780/1582/1993/3170
6: 4783/1589/1990/3150
9: 4801/1593/2000/3157

Multi can be changed in the ranges 1-5 and 6-9 with AOD.

3. Number of cores

Mem: Ganged (4 Modules)
TLB-Fix: On

3DMark06

Cores: Score/SM2/SM3/CPU
4: 4801/1593/2000/3157
3: 4699/1594/1997/2558
2: 4488/1595/1999/1786
1: 3901/1586/1995/903

Speedup in CPU Score: 2 cores +97%, 3 cores +183%, 4 cores +249%

Thanks for the update justapost, yes its a strange bios after a fresh windows install (downgrade from vista 64 to xp 64) trackmania nations is now faster on the new bios than on the old but trackmania united has plunged nearly 30 fps. Also HL2 lost coast is nearly 30fps slower on the new bios. I also found 3d mark was unaffected by the change in bios. Is there no way to "port" the bios from the m3a32 deluxe series onto this board?
Did you dload this dll for the black screen at the end of aquamark http://aqm4.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=445 (2nd post)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thesavage

Thanks for the update justapost, yes its a strange bios after a fresh windows install (downgrade from vista 64 to xp 64) trackmania nations is now faster on the new bios than on the old but trackmania united has plunged nearly 30 fps. Also HL2 lost coast is nearly 30fps slower on the new bios. I also found 3d mark was unaffected by the change in bios. Is there no way to "port" the bios from the m3a32 deluxe series onto this board?

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Hi Savage,
I saw your post on the asus forum. Also realize that bios 301 runs mem unganged and 406 runs ganged. So i did those single channel benchmarks. But even there fritzchess dropped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Did you dload this dll for the black screen at the end of aquamark http://aqm4.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=445 (2nd post)

---

I tried a few version, downloaded from various locations. None of em worked. Tried the location you posted, same situation.

The NB multi can be changed with wprcedit in the range ht-multi <= nb-multi <= cpu-multi.
Changing the ht multi via wprcedit results in no start after reboot.
Here is the description how to use wprcedit.
As it was mentioned before in other threads, go to Dev#24 Func#3 and change the bits 0-5 of the 32bit register D4, click Set and reboot.
NB-multi = D4:[0-5] + 4

Running sp 1M now with different HT/NB multis will post results later.

NB multis > 9 can not be applied with my 9500 MSR register c0010071h keeps the MaxNbFid in bits 63:59. In my case 00101b = 5 means 1800MHz max.
Using higher multis results in a lower ref HT as on other boards.

Yes you are correct, however not all applicatios exhibit the same behaviour switching between ganged and unganged.eg (below is a good analysis of the Phenom cpumemory subsystem)
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/9.shtml
Also the effect of northbridge frequency,
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/21.shtml
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/22.shtml
Also George ou posted a table with the link between memory speed core speed and the efficiency of the memory controller at various frequencies(if i could only find where i saved it)
And this would help to explain some differences at various frequencies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Yes you are correct, however not all applicatios exhibit the same behaviour switching between ganged and unganged.eg (below is a good analysis of the Phenom cpumemory subsystem)
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/9.shtml
Also the effect of northbridge frequency,
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/21.shtml
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom/22.shtml
Also George ou posted a table with the link between memory speed core speed and the efficiency of the memory controller at various frequencies(if i could only find where i saved it)
And this would help to explain some differences at various frequencies.

---

That you for the links. That article covers most of the current phenom issues.

I tried to find out why the results drop if i set a nb speed>9. Thought the bios adjusts the ref HT in a way that the nb speed does not exceed the speed at 9x. KTE mentioned that this is not the case. I ran CB10 4xCPU at 8 ht multi and 8-10 nb multi.
Difference between 8 and 9 multi ~200 (7100 vs. 7300). Between 9 and 10 multi the points firts dropped ~100 points.
I compared memory subtimings and found that the max async latency has changed.
Using the same latency the difference shrunked to ~30. I ran each bechmark five times and used the average.
Sems the drops where caused by timing changes.
Looked for a way to change the CPU VDDC via registers. Found the msr-register where the value is stored, but it is empty. I assume it is not used. Hope the next bios will allow changing the prozessor voltage again.

Achim, this is the difference between a real 140MHz difference in NB (8x vs 9x @ CPU 2640MHz).

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9...19evpq0.th.jpg - http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3897/evmeman7.th.jpg

You can confirm and cross check this with what macci reports. ;)

Sorry, I wrote a lengthy post but Fx crash and I lost it. New build is extremely buggy.

If i remember correctly the memory controller is~
1) 93&#37; efficient @ 2200MHz
2) 96% efficient @ 2300Mhz
3) 100% efficient @ 2400MHz
This seems to tie in with the strange performance when overclocking. ie
Overclocked 2300 ~ 2600 can be slower than just a 2600.

Thesavage: Can you explain this in more detail please.
Also how do you know this?

I've not seen those figures of IMC speed reached apart from macci with ES and a BE chip. In all cases, higher IMC speed was quicker than lower. Max I've been is around 2250MHz with 9500 very unstable on stock NB 1.1VID. Max on both my 9600s was 1.98Ghz and 2GHz.

The last line of your post; are you referring to CPU speed or IMC speed? :)

Hi KTE
There was reference to this on a blog by George Ou he produced a table with the various clock speeds of Barcelona/ Phenom and the relative efficiency of the memory controller at that speed. (I saved it but may have deleted it with my last format) :( I will search further for it, but this was also raised as a topic on the old aceshardware. From that table the best memory eff was at 2.4GHz and at 2.8Ghz.
Maybe pm George Ou from Zdnet may be worth looking into. I was referring to the cpu speed comparisons which sometimes produce strange results, also there is a section i think at lostcircuits on the merits of the nb overclock.:up:

Ah, ok, thanks. :D

I'll try and search for it to see what is around, but G.Ou has been very anti-AMD and thrown very emotionally hasty journalism since Barcelona was announced, so I don't think he's someone I would trust solely unless he cites credible sources and there is someone else who has also mentioned it with a decent reputation. I mean 100s of review sites, reviewers, Sami, AMD themselves, my own contacts, this forum members and their contacts including those working for DFI, OCZ, EVGA, MSI and Corsair, and none has mentioned this yet. I've seen it mentioned in no documentation either, so I'm a little skeptic here. ;)

I'll try and see what I can find about it. It has to make sense architecturally to be believable though and I understand K10h uarch pretty well.

Got it KTE,
http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...114a745dc1c3db
2nd from the bottom.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Achim, this is the difference between a real 140MHz difference in NB (8x vs 9x @ CPU 2640MHz).

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9...19evpq0.th.jpg - http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3897/evmeman7.th.jpg

You can confirm and cross check this with what macci reports. ;)

Sorry, I wrote a lengthy post but Fx crash and I lost it. New build is extremely buggy.

---

Great, thank you.

Here are my results, everthing at stock beside HT/NB/MasAsnycLtency

8xHT, 9xNB, 57ns MaxAsyncLatency
http://www.abload.de/thumb/ev9-571ie.jpg
Mem Read/Latency: 6971 MB/s 67,6ns
L3 Read/Rite/Copy: 7228 MB/s / 7698 MB/s / 9495 MB/s

8xHT, 8xNB, 57ns MaxAsyncLatency
http://www.abload.de/thumb/ev8-57nus.jpg
Mem Read/Latency: 6186 MB/s 77ns
L3 Read/Rite/Copy: 6404 MB/s / 6864 MB/s / 7946 MB/s

8xHT, 8xNB, 48ns MaxAsyncLatency
http://www.abload.de/thumb/ev8x3s.jpg
Mem Read/Latency: 6534 MB/s 71,1ns
L3 Read/Rite/Copy: 6700 MB/s / 6856 MB/s / 7942 MB/s

So lower multis work on M3A

I thought memory on the K10 is derived from the NB clock not the CPU clock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Got it KTE,
http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...114a745dc1c3db
2nd from the bottom.:D

---

OK. That clears things out. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

I thought memory on the K10 is derived from the NB clock not the CPU clock?

---

Yep.

For reference: Those figures do not apply to K10 Phenom as it works out the clocks unlike K8. Those clocks Gearge posted about doesn't apply to Phenom. You can run memory dividers through the BIOS and get full 800 or 1066 speeds with Phenom. CPU/NB speeds are worked out like this:

CPU Speed = (1/2*HT ref.) * (FID+16) / DID
NB Speed = HT ref. * (FID+4) / DID

Memory, I'm not sure what is happening internally but on the outset, this is how it'll work:

Mem Speed = HT ref. * DRAM Divider

As far as I'm aware.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

So lower multis work on M3A

---

Very nice Achim. Lower NB FID works on all boards as far as I've seen. Good to know you have it working too! :)

I would try Unganged mode instead, it'll give you better bandwidth and lower latencies.

Ok this is what i found overclocking just slightly @ different memory speeds 800vs667.
1 @ 800 raise fsb and memory speed raises with fsb.
2 @ 667 raise fsb and memory stays static?
Is this then correct.
His table does mention Barcelona./ and not Phenom although it should be comparible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

2 @ 667 raise fsb and memory stays static?

---

Are you sure?
Raise HT. ref to 210 and what RAM speed does it give you at 1:1.6 divider?

TBH, it's quite impossible to keep the RAM speed static when increasing HT ref. since HT ref. and the RAM speed is directly linked with the ratio you run it at. ;)

It should be the same with any DRAM divider which works.

Yep ( raised fsb from 200-220 )thats why i have been slightly confused by the results out of this m3a board Im not to sure if this the same as other boards. I also found overclocking @ 667 is a breeze compared to 800 (although I am running 4x 1 gig) 667 seems to allow higher clocks as well as the ability to actually save and cold boot with those settings. May well be that aod is reporting wrongly will recheck with cpuz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

OK. That clears things out. ;)

Yep.

For reference: Those figures do not apply to K10 Phenom as it works out the clocks unlike K8. Those clocks Gearge posted about doesn't apply to Phenom. You can run memory dividers through the BIOS and get full 800 or 1066 speeds with Phenom. CPU/NB speeds are worked out like this:

CPU Speed = (1/2*HT ref.) * (FID+16) / DID
NB Speed = HT ref. * (FID+4) / DID

Memory, I'm not sure what is happening internally but on the outset, this is how it'll work:

Mem Speed = HT ref. * DRAM Divider

As far as I'm aware.

---

Yeah, that's how it works as far as i know.
Maybe george had AM2 or single power plane opetron boards in mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Very nice Achim. Lower NB FID works on all boards as far as I've seen. Good to know you have it working too! :)

---

Good to see it's working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

I would try Unganged mode instead, it'll give you better bandwidth and lower latencies.

---

No bios option for unganged mode atm. Found Register F2x110h has a bit for ganged/unganged settings. WPRCEDIT shows only values <=FFh, so i can not tweak it that way.
The bios lacks support for real prozessor (VDD) and northbridge voltage (VDDNB) settings, tlb-fix and dc-mode.

Have the ram settings available for AM2 chips changed in the newer bios releases? And uh... anyone heard of any board failures yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

Have the ram settings available for AM2 chips changed in the newer bios releases?

---

Yep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

And uh... anyone heard of any board failures yet?

---

U mean killed by ocing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

U mean killed by ocing?

---

Killed by "normal OCing". Stuff you can do in the bios. Or just plain dead due to manufactuering defects etc... (modding or extreme cooling abuse excluded)

I bought the MSI budget 790X board before letting others be the guinea pig. My pioneering spirit died with the mosfets.

Also, how stable is the vcore? It doesnt appear to have as much power regulation hardware. Is it 4 stage?

*edit* found this on the asus page.
"4+1 Phase Power Design
Longer Life, & Higher Efficiency!
Unleashes ultimate memory performances with independent power to core components, while providing fast transient response and stability for the CPU under heavy loading or overclocking modes."

Sounds promising.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Yep ( raised fsb from 200-220 )thats why i have been slightly confused by the results out of this m3a board Im not to sure if this the same as other boards. I also found overclocking @ 667 is a breeze compared to 800 (although I am running 4x 1 gig) 667 seems to allow higher clocks as well as the ability to actually save and cold boot with those settings. May well be that aod is reporting wrongly will recheck with cpuz.

---

Damn, had to reinstall windows, suddenly it allway froze after autologin.
Checked memspeed oc'ed to 220 for 667 mem. CPU-Z reported correct, did not try aod.
Could push ref HT to 235 with 11x CPU multi and ram @ 800. :) Far from prime95 stable but it verified and finished super pi 1m (tlb-fix disabled).
On the M2A-VM i reached ~30,03s with 5-5-5-15 timings.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/sp1mx235x11x800itg.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

Killed by "normal OCing". Stuff you can do in the bios. Or just plain dead due to manufactuering defects etc... (modding or extreme cooling abuse excluded)

I bought the MSI budget 790X board before letting others be the guinea pig. My pioneering spirit died with the mosfets.

---

Yeah, saw the picture u posted yesterday. Played with the idea of buying one, rethinking that now.
I added all M3A related resources to the first post, none said something about defects.
But the bios is in a very early stage and does not allow high voltage increases, that makes it hard to reach the hw's limit atm. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

Also, how stable is the vcore? It doesnt appear to have as much power regulation hardware. Is it 4 stage?

*edit* found this on the asus page.
"4+1 Phase Power Design
Longer Life, & Higher Efficiency!
Unleashes ultimate memory performances with independent power to core components, while providing fast transient response and stability for the CPU under heavy loading or overclocking modes."

Sounds promising.

---

790FX boards use 8+2 fyi.

Found another thread about the mobo at techpowerup here.

Interesting recommendations about nb temps.

Hey justapost just about to reinstall windows myself again, seems that after a bit of overclocking and testing windows freezes just after boot.(can usually hear the xfi complain) Asus should supply a free xp pro corporate with this board, give overclocking @ 667 a try seems slightly better on my setup. Yes where i live temps are very high in summer so i have noticed the nb temps are very hot, but the board remains stable.:D

would you guys recommend upgrading the bios to the beta or stay with original until they release a new one?

with this bios i have been able to get to 3.0ghz out of my 4400+ on stock hs/fan
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=289736
i didn't run it to long as temps started to get up into the 60's
i been pretty lost on what ht divider to choose while o/c so i just set it to lowest while testing.

also i had the lan driver issue, i disabled the lan in bios and installed a different one, used it for a day, then when i had a o/c failure the bios got reset, i boot into windows and its been working even since. Hope i wont have to reinstall for a while, i decided to remove the extra card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Hey justapost just about to reinstall windows myself again, seems that after a bit of overclocking and testing windows freezes just after boot.(can usually hear the xfi complain) Asus should supply a free xp pro corporate with this board, give overclocking @ 667 a try seems slightly better on my setup. Yes where i live temps are very high in summer so i have noticed the nb temps are very hot, but the board remains stable.:D

---

Unless the PCIE etc.. is coming unlocked its usually ram overclocking that kills my windows installs ;) get all of the cpu overclocking out of the way then use a memtest boot disk to test the ram. Saves the XP install.
Im sure yall already know that and are being lazy :P what can I say though, i do it too. More fun to get it into windows and benchmark it than test it for 20 minutes in memtest :shrug:
Anywho, ill have one in 3 days. Ill ring her out and see if I can add anything to this.

Giving the testing a small break, and treating myself to some crysis and ut3 action.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganki

would you guys recommend upgrading the bios to the beta or stay with original until they release a new one?

---

Have not tried an X2 with the new bios, found the first one quite cool for X2 oc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganki

also i had the lan driver issue, i disabled the lan in bios and installed a different one, used it for a day, then when i had a o/c failure the bios got reset, i boot into windows and its been working even since. Hope i wont have to reinstall for a while, i decided to remove the extra card.

---

Strange behavior, anyway in case the card does not work check the asus-forum, there is a solution to the driver problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

Unless the PCIE etc.. is coming unlocked its usually ram overclocking that kills my windows installs ;) get all of the cpu overclocking out of the way then use a memtest boot disk to test the ram. Saves the XP install.
Im sure yall already know that and are being lazy :P what can I say though, i do it too. More fun to get it into windows and benchmark it than test it for 20 minutes in memtest :shrug:
Anywho, ill have one in 3 days. Ill ring her out and see if I can add anything to this.

---

I resetted all the bios settings via jumper (did not remove the battery). I could boot into save mode so i deactivated the HPET timer. With all onboard stuff deactivated windows still froze. Also there was no dump file to analyze. I did not want to make a doctor in windows so i reinstalled it. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

Giving the testing a small break, and treating myself to some crysis and ut3 action.:D

---

Hmm I build an Intel rig for my brother today, so I have a 8800GT and 2GB DDR2-1066 here. I have the machine for the next 20 hours or so so i must do so benchmarking comparison now. :D

hmmm , im getting all my parts 2moz, is it worth it updating the bios or should i leave it at the 1st version ?
Bear in mind ive never flashed a bios before, but i have quite a useful guide in :
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=2138493
What do u guys think ?

My rig will be :
Phenom 9600
Asus M3A
2 GB DDR2 800mhz
XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog 640

Does the M3A suffer from a hot onboard chipset?

The DFI, GBT DS5 and MSI 790FX don't at all. The chipset is very cool on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Does the M3A suffer from a hot onboard chipset?

The DFI, GBT DS5 and MSI 790FX don't at all. The chipset is very cool on them.

---

With the stock cooler or watercooling the nb temp becomes an issue with k8's and higher voltages. Behaviour is similar to M2A-VM.
My Zalman 7000 produces enough airflow to keep the nb cool.
I don't think jpierce55 has a nb problem, it's more likely the prozessor voltage whom can not be increased atm.
Max ~214 ref HT with CPU at 1,25V is normal i guess.

So there are no bios vcore options? Is that on K8s or Phenoms?
I keep getting mixed up on what is and isnt available with the different chips. If its on the k8s im going to be stuck around 2.6 or 2.7 for a while :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evax

hmmm , im getting all my parts 2moz, is it worth it updating the bios or should i leave it at the 1st version ?
Bear in mind ive never flashed a bios before, but i have quite a useful guide in :
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=2138493
What do u guys think ?

---

Flashing is easy if u have an usb stick with a fat32 partition. Biggest difference is the new bios includes the tlb-fix, uses ganged mode and allows cpu multi setting in bios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

So there are no bios vcore options? Is that on K8s or Phenoms?
I keep getting mixed up on what is and isnt available with the different chips. If its on the k8s im going to be stuck around 2.6 or 2.7 for a while :/

---

I talked about phenoms. There is a prozessor voltage field in the bios, you can select values between 0,8-1,25V, but it seems to be CPU VID and not VDD. Same with northbridge voltage.
I did not try the latest bios with k8 but the guy at techpower up reports that there are no such problems or limits with k8's.

Yeah, you need voltage manipulation or you can't expect any oc really. :(

Make sure you give some feedback to ASUS that their BIOS options are only lowering VIDS from stock and not changing the VCore as you need. Maybe they are aware of this and are purposely limiting the voltage on the board because it's not supported for oc and it might just do what the MOSFETs of the MSI CF did?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah, you need voltage manipulation or you can't expect any oc really. :(

Make sure you give some feedback to ASUS that their BIOS options are only lowering VIDS from stock and not changing the VCore as you need. Maybe they are aware of this and are purposely limiting the voltage on the board because it's not supported for oc and it might just do what the MOSFETs of the MSI CF did?

---

Lord I hope I didnt just buy another exploding mosfet board. I will return all this crap and go intel lol. (not 680 based)

well, will i gain nething from the bios update if i dont OC ?
And im disabling the TLB fix neways so..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evax

well, will i gain nething from the bios update if i dont OC ?
And im disabling the TLB fix neways so..

---

You might gain a little powersaving if you use lower CPU and NB VID's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Found another thread about the mobo at techpowerup here.

Interesting recommendations about nb temps.

---

thats a review of the M3A regular with the 770 chipset. so hopefully this one is better in many ways

i was also thinking about upgrading to this board, but im still not sure

some quick questions, all K8 related. was the original bios able to adjust the cpu voltage? if so did it work with AOD. and in the new new bios does it let you change the core voltage properly in AOD, or even display the correct voltage in AOD or cpuz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

... quick questions, all K8 related. was the original bios able to adjust the cpu voltage? if so did it work with AOD. and in the new new bios does it let you change the core voltage properly in AOD, or even display the correct voltage in AOD or cpuz

---

Yes, the orig and the 0406 allow K8 voltage adjust, as well as multi adjust and HT ref.

I am not able to get AOD to work at all with my 5000+ BE on this board with either BIOS. I does report voltage and some other things properly, but it crashes the machine everytime I try to change something.

SpeedFan and CPUz seem to work just fine and report the same results where they overlap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by noee

I does report voltage and some other things properly, but it crashes the machine everytime I try to change something.

---

Just tried it here with a BE-2400.

Statuspage
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod2h9p.jpg
Voltage is 1,55V in Bios and 1,456V in CPU-Z. AOD displays 1,2V

Clock/Voltage Performance Control
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod1c3r.jpg
If i change cpu or ht multi the system freezes.
I can move the CPU VID slider but after i press apply the slider jumps back to 1,2V.
All other sliders are locked on this page.

Memory timings can be modified and applied however.

in AOD go to the status monitor page and the one voltage/tempature page, in there it says cpu voltage as well, does it say 1.2 or 1.4-1.5

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

in AOD go to the status monitor page and the one voltage/tempature page, in there it says cpu voltage as well, does it say 1.2 or 1.4-1.5

---

Thx for the hint.

That page reports the same voltage as cpu-z
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod3n1h.jpg

For the record, a screenshot of the System Status page.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod4y8z.jpg

I'll check those pages with phenom now.

np, did you ever have problems where sometimes when you load AOD it reports fake numbers. like PCIe speed at 90 or 200 when its left unchanged, or voltages being all at minimum instead of what they should be. on my k9a2 if it ever did that and i tried to apply anything it would take a few minutes to finish and in the end nothing changed. u can tell cause if you run cpuz in the background it ups the fsb by 5mhz intervals till it reaches the desired values. i would have to restart the comp and hope it worked then, it did it about 20-30&#37; of the time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

np, did you ever have problems where sometimes when you load AOD it reports fake numbers. like PCIe speed at 90 or 200 when its left unchanged, or voltages being all at minimum instead of what they should be. on my k9a2 if it ever did that and i tried to apply anything it would take a few minutes to finish and in the end nothing changed. u can tell cause if you run cpuz in the background it ups the fsb by 5mhz intervals till it reaches the desired values. i would have to restart the comp and hope it worked then, it did it about 20-30% of the time

---

I get a warning that i should run it as an Administrator sometimes but till now no fake numbers where reported. But it's impossible to do clock modifications with aod on the m3a atm.

AOD SCreenshots with Phenom in CnQ mode.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/aod12cz.jpghttp://www.abload.de/thumb/aod2wbg.jpghttp://www.abload.de/thumb/aod3v1q.jpghttp://www.abload.de/thumb/aod41l6.jpg
All cpu related voltages drop, how is this on an 790(F)X boards?
I thought CnQ power saving modes work via modifying CPU and NB VID's only.

CnQ might be nice, but i dont pay the electric bill so i dont care. and i wish it had better profiles to let overclockers use it as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manicdan

CnQ might be nice, but i dont pay the electric bill so i dont care. and i wish it had better profiles to let overclockers use it as well

---

Have you ever tried Rightmark Clock Utility? It does not work with k10 but with intel and k8 processors it allows you to define power management profiles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Mem Speed = HT ref. * DRAM Divider

As far as I'm aware.

---

That's correct! And as usually George is only a smartass and not smart!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KTE

Yeah, you need voltage manipulation or you can't expect any oc really. :(

Make sure you give some feedback to ASUS that their BIOS options are only lowering VIDS from stock and not changing the VCore as you need. Maybe they are aware of this and are purposely limiting the voltage on the board because it's not supported for oc and it might just do what the MOSFETs of the MSI CF did?

---

Hmm, hard to write a bug report on the asus website, with firefox their forms do not work.
I submitted a report with ie will post the answer here.

@jpierce55 from techPowerUp: LOL forum cross talking. Try to regsiter with my nic in the recommendation field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justapost

Hmm, hard to write a bug report on the asus website, with firefox their forms do not work.
I submitted a report with ie will post the answer here.

@jpierce55 from techPowerUp: LOL forum cross talking. Try to regsiter with my nic in the recommendation field.

---

I hope you included the lower memory performance on bios 0406 as well as the bios setting to disable the tlb patch.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thesavage

I hope you included the lower memory performance on bios 0406 as well as the bios setting to disable the tlb patch.;)

---

Hmm no i did not talk about the memory performance, but i requested a ganged/unganged field.
But i asked for a tlb and a real prozessor/nb voltage field.
I added a link to this thread.

achim~

Hey instead of making a whole new thread I will ask it here:
I'm planing on building a new PC with this board (AMD 6000+, HD3850, 4GBs or RAM etc.) And i would like to know if there are any real problems with this board or is it good to go?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muns786

Hey instead of making a whole new thread I will ask it here:
I'm planing on building a new PC with this board (AMD 6000+, HD3850, 4GBs or RAM etc.) And i would like to know if there are any real problems with this board or is it good to go?

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Some people experienced problems with the onboard network and audio devices. These problems seem to go away after a complete bios reset (by removing the cmos battery, the clear cmos jumper alone did not work).
It's a solid board with and X2 proc and it is very power efficient. I get lower temps and require less volts than on the M2A-VM.
You can expect a max ref HT ~350MHz with an 6000+, check the thread at legit i linked in #1.

Quote:

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@ justapost, still no sign on and I get any emails to the forums back as undelivered mail. So the cross forum talk continues, lol. I did mention in my email to Asus on the memory performance, together we should get things through to them. Do you know what the other memory choices are for, I have never seen them before?

Also have you watched the mosfets, they seem to be cool on my board despite not having h.s. or fans. I don't think the MSI firecracker event is likely.

Tell noee to unistall aod and try it with the BE, that is what I had to do.

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Can a moderator explain why jpierce55 can not join the forum please?

@jpierce55 did you get any response from asus? I did not even get a mail saying my request arrived.

Mosfets don't get too hot here. They used the same stuff as on the M2A-VM.
With the stock cpu cooler they got pretty hot there but that board allowed up to 1,65V for the CPU. 0,1V more that on the M3A. I allways used three additinal fans (mem, mosfets, nb) on the M2A-VM. With the M3A i only use the ram fan somtimes. NB and mosfets get enough airflow from the cpu fan now.
On the M2A-VM the mosfets man some clicking noise under stress sometimes did not experience that on the M3A also.

Quote:

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@justapost No Asus did not respond to me either, not even a "we received you email" message.

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Damn Asus techsupport is hard to reach. Last time i tried to contact them via theit webteam because their webform did not work.
Got this reply.

Quote:

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Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for supporting ASUS products.

We apologize that you have encountered this problem.

Please use Internet Explorer.
We are web site no suport good with Firefox
Sorry for the inconvenience!

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Yuck.

About the Memory Options.

Bank Interleaving is a different way to organize memory-pages on the dimm's. If it's enabled it should improve memory performance.

Memory Hole remapping must be &#233;nabled if you want to use 4GB with 32bit wxp together with the /PAE boot option.

I don't know what the MEMCLK/Tristate Option does.

The last option is a power saving feature, if i remember correct, the phenom can turn off dct's if they are not needed.

214MHz is stable here too. Can boot with max 235MHz.
Tried 220MHz with a lower NB multi (8x) but it was not stable (that's what DaMulta recommended you).
M3A does not have a bios option for the nb multi. But the multi can be tweaked with wprcedit in the range ht-multi<=nb-multi<9.
Hope to get 235MHzx11 stable once we get vcore options in the bios.

Justapost,
Can you check your 5v rail to see what it is reporting, my rail is @ 4.9 at the moment on my previous board it was 5.3. Also I have been monitoring cpu usage through my G15 keyboard and it seems higher on the new bios in ut3 and stalker .

@TheSavage: The 5v rail reports 4,92V in idle and 4,87V under load.

I also noted the power usage. The new bios needs ~10W more in idle. Under load there is no difference.

Bios 301: idle/load
http://www.abload.de/img/3011tv.jpghttp://www.abload.de/img/301load1q3.jpg
133W/220W

Bios 406: idle/load
http://www.abload.de/img/4064j9.jpghttp://www.abload.de/img/406loadriy.jpg
144W/220W

Use a DMM, don't even look at software rail voltage values. There is no way some of those rail voltage are close to correct, i.e. your +5V and your +3.3V. ;)

Of interest to the K8 people. Max HT speed I could squeeze out of mine. CPU-Z reports this HT sometimes varying as much as +5 though. Not sure how stable the HT is up here.

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pic...s/untitled.JPG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

Use a DMM, don't even look at software rail voltage values. There is no way some of those rail voltage are close to correct, i.e. your +5V and your +3.3V. ;)

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Hope a friend of mine with more more background in electricity will help me doing that this week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

Of interest to the K8 people. Max HT speed I could squeeze out of mine. CPU-Z reports this HT sometimes varying as much as +5 though. Not sure how stable the HT is up here.

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http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pic...s/untitled.JPG
Can you boot with 371MHz ref HT. ?

I didn't get that exact with it, I went up in bumps of 10 per. 380 doesn't post, 370 was stable enough to take that screen shot, upload it, make the post, run orthos for a minute. Then I went back to priming my main OC (Currently 2.9ghz @ 1.3vcore.... which made an error after 30 mins just as I typed that lol)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

I didn't get that exact with it, I went up in bumps of 10 per. 380 doesn't post, 370 was stable enough to take that screen shot, upload it, make the post, run orthos for a minute. Then I went back to priming my main OC (Currently 2.9ghz @ 1.3vcore.... which made an error after 30 mins just as I typed that lol)

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Playing with lower cpu multis and the 9500 right now. Will go for max ref HT with the BE2400 later. Looks like the 406 bios allows higher ref HT's :clap:
I also have an X23800+ EE. Could reach up to 2.7MHz on the M2A-VM. M3A should give me ~100MHz more as it did with the 2400.

See im having weird issues where 3ghz will get into windows at bellow stock voltage.... but even at 1.5 it makes errors (When it gets >50*C). Theres got to be some spot in the middle where it wont get hot enough to make an error, but its enough voltage to not just make an error on its own eventually lol. Its somewhere between 1.3 and 1.4. If I cant get this thing settled in soon though ima just buy a new HSF or lap it or something.

Seems the lower the voltage I use the less heat it makes, but also the less heat it takes to make an error. Very annoying balancing act.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior

See im having weird issues where 3ghz will get into windows at bellow stock voltage.... but even at 1.5 it makes errors (When it gets >50*C). Theres got to be some spot in the middle where it wont get hot enough to make an error, but its enough voltage to not just make an error on its own eventually lol. Its somewhere between 1.3 and 1.4. If I cant get this thing settled in soon though ima just buy a new HSF or lap it or something.

Seems the lower the voltage I use the less heat it makes, but also the less heat it takes to make an error. Very annoying balancing act.

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With X2's i did it like that. Up the ref HT till it fails in orthos. The i upped all voltages one step (sometimes two steps for the cpu at once). If it's stable i try to lower single voltages till if find the minimum stable settings for the given ref HT. I increase the ref HT in steps of 2-5. It's time consuming but results in a save ref HT pathway.

I'm tempted to lap my X23800+ too, because i never did it. :cool:

BTW: I need watercooling for 3,3MHz with the BE2400.

If you have a DMM Achim, I can guide you through what you need to measure. Very easy, you'll see. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

If you have a DMM Achim, I can guide you through what you need to measure. Very easy, you'll see. ;)

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Lol, thanks unfortunately my roommate forgott him at her ex's place.

System with ref HT 220MHZ, cpu 10,5, nb+ht 9, vdimm 2,15V 800MHz 4-4-3-5 everything else stock is prime stable for 7 hours.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/220x105-1mnz.jpg

CoreTemps where ~48&#176; at the end. Used the reserator 1p for cpu and 2400pro cooling and had three more fan applied.
It's unstable with a 10,5 cpu-multi at 222MHz even with an 8xnb-multi.

System with ref HT 229MHZ, cpu 10, nb+ht 9, vdimm 2,2V 800MHz 5-5-5-15, sb at 1,25V everything else stock is prime stable for ~1 hour.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/229x10-1bvh.jpg

System froze with stock sb voltage, did not after i increased it 0,05V worked as stock settings later. Used save ram timings.
With 230MHz the system does not boot. A lower ht-multi and lower ram settings did not help.

CoreTemps where ~45&#176; because i placed the reserator near an open window.

System with ref HT 235MHZ, cpu 9, nb+ht 9, vdimm 2,2V 800MHz 5-5-5-18, sb at 1,25V everything else stock is prime stable for ~1:45 hours.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/235x95c9c.jpg

CoreTemps where ~46&#176;.

System with ref HT 239MHZ, cpu 9, nb 9 ht 8, vdimm 2,2V 800MHz 5-5-5-18, sb at 1,25V everything else stock is prime stable for ~1 hour.

http://www.abload.de/thumb/239x95-3hbh.jpg

Settings beyond 235MHz did not work with 667MHz but with 800MHz for the ram.

These where my results on the M2A-VM:

Setup:
Motherboard: M2A-VM
Prozessor: GP-9500 @ 2200MHz - 200MHz x 11
Ram: 2x1GB DDR2800 GSkill 2xF2-6400CL4D-2GBPK
HD: Western Digital Caviar WD800 80GB PATA
Optical: none
GFX: OnBoard(X1200)
HSF: Stock AMD Cooler
PSU: Zalman ZM460B-APS
OS: Windows XP 32Bit Prof.

Quote:

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My resullts with 1:2 ram (800) and 5x HT multi:
It makes no difference if i switch between Desktop and Energy Saving Profile in idle usage. For load i ran prime95 for 10 minutes and build an median between max and min. Temps are CPU and Board Temps during the prime95 run.

200HTT, CPU 1,25V, NB 1,2V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 77W AC / 54,7W DC (71&#37;)
Load: 151W AC / 122W DC (80,8%)
Temp: 56&#176;/38&#176;

205HTT, CPU 1,25V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 78,5W AC / 57,5 W DC (73,2%)
Load: 154W AC / 123,5 W DC (80,2 %)
Temp: 59&#176;/39&#176;

210HTT, CPU 1,3V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 83,5W AC / 62,6 W DC (75%)
Load: 165W AC / 134,0 W DC (81,2%)
Temp: 63&#176;/40&#176;

215HTT, CPU 1,325V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 87,5W AC / 66,5 W DC (76%)
Load: 178W AC / 144,7 W DC (81,3%)
Temp: 67&#176;/41&#176;

220HTT, CPU 1,375V, NB 1,4V, RAM 2,0V
Idle: 93W AC / 72,5W DC (78%)
Load: 197W AC / 160,8W DC (81,6%)
Temp: 70&#176;/41&#176;

Added a few fans

220HTT, CPU 1,375V, NB 1,4V, RAM 2,0V
Idle: 109,5W AC / 86,0W DC (78,5%)
Load: 204W AC / 166,5W DC (81,6%)
Temp: 67&#176;/30&#176;

225HTT, CPU 1,4V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 110W AC / 86,4W DC (78,5%)
Load: 218W AC / 177,9W DC (81,6%)
Temp: 68&#176;/33&#176;

230HTT, CPU 1,45V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 123W AC / 98,3W DC (79,9%)
Load: 238W AC / 194,0W DC (81,5%)
Temp: 71&#176;/33&#176;

235HTT, CPU 1,525V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 138W AC / 111,4W DC (80,7%)
Load: 274W AC / 222,5W DC (81,2%)
Temp: 80&#176;/34&#176;

Can boot with 238HTT but system freezes, same if i reach 239 HTT with ClockGen.

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All those tests ran with the stock cooler, could not get better results with watercooling later.

With stock cpu settings i could reach 205MHz ref HT. Had to increase Vcore +0,75V to get it stable at 215MHz ref HT.

220MHz ref HT was the max I could do prime stable (12Hrs).
System was stable up to 1,45V vcore but failed with 1,475V vcore on the same settings.

Max bootable ref. HT was nearly the same. System can boot sometimes with 238MHz, sometimes it does not post.

EDIT:
Here is a review of my PSU they measured those efficiencies

75,1W 73,1%
137,6W 80,5%
262,6W 81,3%
332,2W 80,6%
471,4W 78,3%

I used a curve template for interpolation on scale paper.

Did anyone reach more than 2350MHz stable with the 9500 on the M3A yet? Or boot with more than 235MHz ref HT.
I'd like to know your results, because i'm curious if it is a board or a cpu issue.

Quote:

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My resullts with 1:2 ram (800) and 5x HT multi:
It makes no difference if i switch between Desktop and Energy Saving Profile in idle usage. For load i ran prime95 for 10 minutes and build an median between max and min. Temps are CPU and Board Temps during the prime95 run.

200HTT, CPU 1,25V, NB 1,2V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 86W VAC / 77W DC
Load: 161W VAC / 151W DC
Temp: 56&#176;/38&#176;

205HTT, CPU 1,25V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 86W VAC / 78,5W DC
Load: 164W VAC / 154W DC
Temp: 59&#176;/39&#176;

210HTT, CPU 1,3V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 92W VAC / 83,5W DC
Load: 176W VAC / 165W DC
Temp: 63&#176;/40&#176;

215HTT, CPU 1,325V, NB 1,3V, RAM 1,8V
Idle: 96W VAC / 87,5W DC
Load: 187W VAC / 178W DC
Temp: 67&#176;/41&#176;

220HTT, CPU 1,375V, NB 1,4V, RAM 2,0V
Idle: 101W VAC / 93W DC
Load: 204W VAC / 197W DC
Temp: 70&#176;/41&#176;

Added a few fans

220HTT, CPU 1,375V, NB 1,4V, RAM 2,0V
Idle: 117,5W VAC / 109,5W DC
Load: 212W VAC / 204W DC
Temp: 67&#176;/30&#176;

225HTT, CPU 1,4V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 118,5W VAC / 110W DC
Load: 225W VAC / 218W DC
Temp: 68&#176;/33&#176;

230HTT, CPU 1,45V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 132W VAC / 123W DC
Load: 246W VAC / 238W DC
Temp: 71&#176;/33&#176;

235HTT, CPU 1,525V, NB 1,5V, RAM 2,1V
Idle: 146,5W VAC / 138W DC
Load: 278W VAC / 274W DC
Temp: 80&#176;/34&#176;

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First thing I noted:
-Your ambient heat sink temp is high, hence your high idle/load temps.
-You don't need to add a single mV to the NB which is the chipset, you need to add for the CPU NB which is different.
-What was your HT voltage? (makes a difference)
-Your DC wattage is too high, it should be much lower. That looks like apparent/real power (AC) your stating rather than DC power you've quoted. ;)
Even the latest & best low power optimized 81-85&#37; efficient SMPS only do <77-79% at sub 145W AC loads, like this one in a review.

For instance, the 3 Seasonics I've tried, of them the 380W is the most efficient at low power draw and it draws 145W AC at 78% efficiency (113W DC). :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

First thing I noted:
-Your ambient heat sink temp is high, hence your high idle/load temps.

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Lol,i just cut and pasted those results from your thread.
It was all done with the stock heatsink.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

-You don't need to add a single mV to the NB which is the chipset, you need to add for the CPU NB which is different.
-What was your HT voltage? (makes a difference)

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Had no special HT voltage setting on the M2A-VM. Had to increase what was labeld NB-Voltage as it was not stable as stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

-Your DC wattage is too high, it should be much lower. That looks like apparent/real power (AC) your stating rather than DC power you've quoted. ;)

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You are right it where the VA and W AC values.
The PSU has a pretty constant efficiency between 130-330W 80.581.5%, gone update those now.

Edit: Fixed above

That's much more accurate, thanks. :up:
Yep, the SMPS units work on a typical de-rating curve. Peak performance is usually at the "typical" load which is 50&#37; of the rated DC wattage under rated temperature conditions and either side of that usually decreases output efficiency. So a curve is exactly how the PSU performance is usually observed and those figures look very accurate now.

Can you just add full system specs (hardware) in that quoted power measurement post too please? It will show everyone better the hardware and the MHz/volts connected for those power loads. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

That's much more accurate, thanks. :up:
Yep, the SMPS units work on a typical de-rating curve. Peak performance is usually at the "typical" load which is 50&#37; of the rated DC wattage under rated temperature conditions and either side of that usually decreases output efficiency. So a curve is exactly how the PSU performance is usually observed and those figures look very accurate now.

Can you just add full system specs (hardware) in that quoted power measurement post too please? It will show everyone better the hardware and the MHz/volts connected for those power loads. ;)

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That's true, added specs above.

I'm going to have to nag you a bit more. :D

You missed the hard drives/opticals. :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KTE

I'm going to have to nag you a bit more. :D

You missed the hard drives/opticals. :p:

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NP, haven't slept the night so I'm in a patient mood. :shocked:
Added HD and had no optical connected.

I already did better estimations for most of the components as i posted in your thread in the first place. must review the ram only.

I'm content enough. :)

It gives the end users reading the whole data to look at and make their own conclusions up without any guessing of if and buts.