Sneil SLI-CF Cascade (56k)

Well Ive mainly kept my builds to EOCF and a few other forums, lurking and posting here every so often. However, I see there are not many Canadian builders around so I've decided to make my presence here known a little better and show my builds and converse here with the larger Phase community we have here. Anyway I'll start with my Cascade build, still currently in the works but close to completion. This one is going to be a personal unit for myself for some major 3D benching and gaming sessions with the cpu under a regular SS(1hp rotary). I made the case myself out of MDF particle board and used 2 layers primer, 3 layers paint and 3 layers clear coat for the paint job.

So here are the specs:

1 Stage:
Compressor: ROTARY Matsu$hita 2P19C3R126A- 18.1cc (12,680 BTU)
HX: 20 plate
TXV: Danfoss/00 orfice
Reciever: Danfoss
condenser: 4X 6x6 row cubes (made by Drewmiester)
refrigerant: R507
safety: Adjustable hp cut-off, low and high side mounted gauges

2nd Stage:
Compressor: ROTARY Matsu$hita 2P19C126A- 18.1cc (12,680 BTU)
Evaporators: 2 X Kayl evaps rev 2
Desuperheater: chilly1 blue ss condenser
Cap tubing: 2X .031 ~8ft (still undecided)
sight glass: Danfoss
refrigerant: R1150 Ethylene
oilseparator: HENRY S-5180 Helical
safety: Adjustable hp cut-off, hp relief valve, low and high side mounted gauges

Cascade Controller by Ssilencer and Golden Eagle
Big thanks to Drewmiester for the condenser and all the help he's provided these past years!:)

more pics...

Looks like a serious piece of kit!

thnx! more pics:)

and more pics...

and some more pics...

And finally the last of em:) This is where I'm at, need to pressure test 1st stage and flush out all the oil in the rotary and change to POE, then it'll be time to charge. Second stage has a few minor things, filter-drier needs to be brazed in, cap tube needs to be cut to length, and then compressor needs to be tied in. Then all the wiring needs to be done, i already cut in the suction line holes in the top of the case and ill cut a 120mm hole in the one side for the desuperheater to suck in fresh air. More to come!:)

really nice sneil, really like the condenser.. don't you think the orfice is a little small? i would go for 01 orfice.

regards
Tim

The mdf base board you see under the cascade is just temporary until i transfer the unit into the case. Everything is quite messy in the pics but it'll all be cleaned up. electrical(hp switches, start capacitors, relays) will all be concealed in the gray box aside from a few cords running to compressors etc.

edit: thanks tim, it is yea, i was originally planning this as a much smaller unit with nf11fx compressor so ill end up changing that to the larger 01, thanks!

looks real nice. Good work Sneil :)

very nice work sneil ;)
I love the pipe work, very straight :up:

YOU DA MAN!
seriously though, nice to see tens of pages of beautiful work over at eofc in one page... man Those are really beuatifull... Keep up the good work mate.

Reed

I've never thought that handmade MDF case can look such beautiful .:eek:

Very clean work :yepp: .

That valve near henry is blow-off ?

Sneil, the case is perfect.
The most beautiful cascade i have seen....:up:

I also built a cascade case out of MDF. Be sure that you A) perfectly insulate everything which could cause condesation und B) if you use rolls/wheels, do not use only four - use at least 6, because otherwise the base plate will bend and bend until it cracks or touches the floor. (thats from my experience :D)

edit: looks really nice!

Loving your work Sniel :up:

you should edit matsu:banana::banana::banana::banana:a for matsu$hita :D

cascade is great looking
but I am not sure about compatiility with ATI cards
evaps has flat base so you must a take off ihs from card

Honestly man i love this. Looks great and am excited to see the performance :D

OMG it's a monster cascade :p i love your dedication to work... nice and ordered cascade :d

More or less which is the cost of this proyect?

even though im not very familiar with phase cooling stuff i have to say that your sli/crossfire unit looks wonderful.. :up:
post us some benchies when you are finished with it wont ya :D

That is one of the cleanest units I have ever seen. Either that or your camera takes really good pictures.

You ice up the first stage yet Sneil

Very clean , awaiting for results .

That case is beautiful, nice to see a quality MDF case finally. although with pipe work that clean I would've left it bare :P

Amazing job man, very well thought out.

PS: how much does that thing weigh? the case can't have helped I would imagine :P

MDF.... I only have one worry on that one :P Looks real sharp and all.
BTW, is the mounting bracket actually touching Evap? How do you insulate THAT? Curious...

Wow thanks everyone for the amazing compliments, glad you all like it.:) :) :) There will for sure be plenty of benchmarks to come although im currently out of a rig atm and wont be purchasing a new one until the Nv9800s come out in feb or whenever(hopefully sooner). I may just get a couple gt's to tie me over til then but we'll see, i might just end up waiting the few months though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piotres

I've never thought that handmade MDF case can look such beautiful .:eek:

Very clean work :yepp: .

That valve near henry is blow-off ?

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Thanks piotres, recognize the hold down plates?;) not entirely sure what your seeing, it's the brass threaded valve sticking out horizontally left open at one end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by godmod

I also built a cascade case out of MDF. Be sure that you A) perfectly insulate everything which could cause condesation und B) if you use rolls/wheels, do not use only four - use at least 6, because otherwise the base plate will bend and bend until it cracks or touches the floor. (thats from my experience :D)

edit: looks really nice!

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thanks for the advice, although i for this unit im going without wheels altogether, but definatly see your point, this weighs a ton alright.:eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duniek

you should edit matsu:banana::banana::banana::banana:a for matsu$hita :D

cascade is great looking
but I am not sure about compatiility with ATI cards
evaps has flat base so you must a take off ihs from card

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Done:D Not sure what you mean about ATI cards? Are the ihs's not flat?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BND|MOD

More or less which is the cost of this proyect?

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a LOT lol that's all im gonna say, she's expensive:p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fujimitsu

PS: how much does that thing weigh? the case can't have helped I would imagine :P

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just went and put her on the scale, 110.5 pounds bare cascade. The case i'd imagine weighs another 15lbs or so. I'll get a final measurement in the end for curiosity's sake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinu117

MDF.... I only have one worry on that one :P Looks real sharp and all.
BTW, is the mounting bracket actually touching Evap? How do you insulate THAT? Curious...

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electical will be all be concealed properly, everything important will be in the junction box and there will be ZERO bare wires and will be well insulated.
As for the bracket, if you look carefully its almost already covered by the head insulation and pretty much the entire card and pcie slot will be insulated anyway, don't worry about the bracket, it'll be buried in there.;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneil

Done:D Not sure what you mean about ATI cards? Are the ihs's not flat?

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IHS is little higher than core surface area

Yikes... didn't know that about ATI card... that can be painful...

Hell of a sweet outfit. Very nice, and I hope the results are as well:up:

very nice look:) we waithing to see some action.

very nice

Thanks guys

In the process of leak testing atm. After 2 days i lost just under 10lbs from 335 to 325lbs on the evap heads. How serious is this leak, or is any leak a serious leak. I wont be seeing pressures like these on the evaps, but is it still worth it to fix it?

Also changed the oil in the 1st stage to POE after modding the compressor, and then brazed it in and am now in the process of pressure testing first stage as well. I think i may have a small leak but pressures may just be stabilizing. If i do my guess is in one of may flared joints.:( We'll see!

wow that all looks amazing

that is really beautiful

Thanks man:)

what about temperatures?

10lbs on those pressures over 48H is a small pressuredrop.

how long time did you wait until you registrated pressure? open accessvalve on both high and lowside when charging with nitrogen? did you have any refrigerant in the system when pressuretested?

i assume you didn't have the manifold connected during the pressuretest. if you did, there is proberbly your answer, those refrigerant hoses "swell" during high pressures as long as you don't use those stainless thats available.

regards
Tim

Your right i did use the manifold. Good to know then, hopefully that's all it was! No, no refrigerant has entered the system as of yet, just nitrogen. Charged only to high side so i waited a good hour for system to stabilize due to txv and compressor restriction. I was using the high side hose to pressure test the evaps while the low side to test first stage so only had the one available. Was reading pressures off the high side gauge that's attached to system, not low side gauge off manifold.;)

Quote:

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how long time did you wait until you registrated pressure?

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Not sure what you mean? So i'll assume then the evap is alrigh, i am slowly dropping in pressure off 1st stage now, but I have the manifold attached. I'll take it off and see what happens. Thanks for the response!:)

Oh yea and no temps as of yet, just making sure there are no leaks first.;) I just charged her up to 300psi now on the first stage, no manifold hoses attached, just gotta wait and see what happens... My low side gauge only goes to 150psi, hopefully im not wrecking it!llol if so they're only $20 and ill get 2 that go 30hg to 300psi which i should have done to begin with.

i ment when you charged it with nitrogen til you registrated pressure first time, to have something to compare with after your 48H.

since you get gauges on unit, you don't need any manifold connected to measure pressure. i would recommend you discounnect your manifold and let the unit say during christmas to make sure.

those manifolds/hoses has causing me to much trouble during pressuretesting, both swelling hoses, but also one leaking manifold (supercheap, ordered by mistake ~40usd manifold). it's just too many non known factors involved to be sure what the issue is.

since you get gauges on the unit as already mentioned, use them to measure pressure.

Extended leak testing for cascade = less thing to worry about later :)

You got that right, I'll make sure this is 100% leak free before any refrigerant enters. Don't want to shoot myself in the foot for getting too eager to see some temps.

-tim, thanks man will do. great advice. I'll record the room temp when i mark the pressure for the next test.


So it's already dropped 10lbs since my last post which is after about 2hrs. I've got a suspicious feeling it's the flare joints on the txv. They were good flares and they're darned tight but i got a feeling that might be it. I'd just like to braze in the txv but i'd end up ruining the orifice. I spose I could just braze the one joint to eliminate the potential leak in it and leave the one with the orifice as a flare.

those flare joints is pure pain to deal with if unit is leaking but you can't find it. do you use something like locktite or leaklock in the flare joints? i know it shouldn't be necessary but I would highly recommend that since it really helps.

i would also recommend you to braze the outlet of tvx, especially since it's a big chance/risk you run the unit in vacuum periodically, especially during startup/idle.


regards
Tim

locktite only on thread and oil on flare. Flaring perfectly (rimming) is one thing lot of people skip on which causes headache though. Loctite is there only for Protection against loosening. Oh... flare copper gasket helps tons too. Only way I do flares when I must (and in cascade, it often becomes requirement...)

jinu:
you are wrong:
loctite is a brand. they have sealant for such as well as refco, they call it leaklock. those products is very common on commersial units, guess why? to prevent eventually leaks in the flare joints..

well I brazed the one outlet of the txv. I had it tightly wrapped with a sopping wet cloth but the entire thing still got very hot to the touch by the time i was finished. Is that ok? The acetylene torch (no O2)wasn't quite hot enough so it took a while to heat up for the solder to flow, are there any rubber gaskets or heat sensitive parts inside these things that i may have damaged?

ill get a copper gasket for the non-brazed flare and look into the loctite, sounds like just what i need.

well, the txv goes pretty hot sometimes during brazing, as long as you keep your wet shirt on the valve it's probably okay, I've never run into any problems with that.

i would check the loctite, i've been using the loctite 567
http://www.akd-tools.gr/xmsAssets/Fi...octite_567.PDF

i also found this, never used it but it should work:
[ulr]http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/HVACBPJC-EN.pdf[/url]

otherwise you got refos leaklock, absolutly the cheapest but I've heard both happy and unsatisfy customers about that. I got a bottle on the way to find out what I think about it. I've heard it harden during time and cracks, i don't know if i buy that since it's a sealant that shouldn't harden at all.

regards
Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tim-

well, the txv goes pretty hot sometimes during brazing, as long as you keep your wet shirt on the valve it's probably okay, I've never run into any problems with that.

i would check the loctite, i've been using the loctite 567
http://www.akd-tools.gr/xmsAssets/Fi...octite_567.PDF

i also found this, never used it but it should work:
[ulr]http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/HVACBPJC-EN.pdf[/url]

otherwise you got refos leaklock, absolutly the cheapest but I've heard both happy and unsatisfy customers about that. I got a bottle on the way to find out what I think about it. I've heard it harden during time and cracks, i don't know if i buy that since it's a sealant that shouldn't harden at all.

regards
Tim

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Hmmm interesting. the msds shows that it weakens as it ages with Trichloroethane... (CFC basically). The #1 reason flare joint leaks is due to this... thermal cycle vibration or movement, or worse yet, condensate freezing and thawing (ice's volume gets larger ... at different temps), which makes the joint loose over time... (add that to vibration). Sealants are primarily used in flare for making sure that the nut doesn't get loose IMHO. But of course, people might do it differently out there ;) And quite frankly after reading MSDS... I can't imagine this practice you are talking about is long time proven practice :) Is there a manual where they specify apply it at the mating surface? I've yet to seen one like that myself while have seen too many that mentions refrigeration oil on mating surface :)
Of course, I could be wrong but just doesn't feel..... RIGHT... :P

Back to main topic:
Over heating TXV can cause it to malfunction but it won't leak out of there most likely :P orificie would be prime suspect of getting damaged, etc (potentially bulb but I would think such is too extreme). If you were able to touch it after brazing though... I wouldn't think it was too hot. (is it removable orifice one? than you should have brazed it with orificie removed to begin with if possible)
The way to braze it should be flame going away from orifice in order to reduce any extra heat it could have been subjected to in angle. I love Danfoss TUA, TUAE series for this reason. Very easy to braze and I know it will work well :)

I was able to remove the orifice so that wasn't in while brazing. I took these pics of the one 1/4" flare that's at the orifice. You mentioned rimming which i don't think I've done. At work ive noticed some of the flares they use have the copper folded over producing a sort of rim and a 2 layer flare if you catch what im saying. Is this what you mean by rimming?

So clean ! Piping work is great, case too, I have a similar project so I'm looking forward for some performances tests... Keep working :up:

Bye
p€p|n0r@ng

That flare will not hold. Cut it again and rim (deburr) using rimmer. Be careful not to get copper pieces in there... not sure how I would go about on already brazed line pointing up like that... What you are thinking about probably is double flare... Flare should look perfectly cylindrical with smooth surface, etc. Even nut might not be able to hold one you made there... Also, it looks like you flared too far out which might work against thread. Moderation moderation :)

i agree with Jinu there...redo that flare. What Flare tool are you using? Looks like it caused some stress on the tube under that flare also.

But what i was thinking of doing...was use conical seals and a collar...for a more permanent seal. Yes will ramp up costs also. But its what i been using on aircraft for years. The seals are also copper so they should conform ok.

http://www.toolsforaircraft.com/images/conic2.jpg

But beautiful work so far....

So I'm now completely leak free in the first stage! Held at 300psi for days without even dropping a pound. Redid the flare and still had pressure dropping, so i took off the insulation from the HX and found a leak there as well as the brass to copper pipe thread on one of the front gauges, and another tiny one that took a while to find. So VERY happy now!

I cant go on to charging the first stage until the cascade is mounted inside the case due to the front panel gauges. I have to take them off and re-mount them once inside the case so no use charging til that is done. And before i do that i need to pressure test the second stage and make sure there are no leaks there as well which is what ill be doing today.

First though i have a question regarding cap tube lengths for the evap heads. Does anyone know what the heat output of a heavily overclocked and v-modded 8800 is? This will be used on next gen hardware, probably 9800s but there's no telling what the heat output on those will be so far, so i'll use the 8800s as a guideline. right now i have em at 7' 10". I hope that's not too short.

I know of a vewrry special super potent leak finding agent: Dish soap and a bit of water!Will find the tiniest of leaks, simply apply to suspected area to confirm!

Beuty full work! amongst being broke from school whilst at school been unable to enjoy such things! Perhaps I'll post my vacuum freeze dryer when its don lol!

ive got leak finding soap, just a little less viscose then dish soap. Anyway the problem was i wasn't thinking about the one plate hx joint at the bottom. There are two brazed joints at that bottom outlet with the piping scheduled down, so i tested the one exposed braze and forgot about the other inside the insulation.I was worried a pressure switch or something was leaking.

thnx for the compliment!:D im confused by the rest of your comment lol:eh:

The second half was talking about himself :yepp: Looking forward to seeing this thing put together. Topnotch work!

Thanks man:) Yea i know he was talking about himself but I was still confused. Particularly about the vacuum freeze dryer:shrug:lol:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneil

ive got leak finding soap, just a little less viscose then dish soap. Anyway the problem was i wasn't thinking about the one plate hx joint at the bottom. There are two brazed joints at that bottom outlet with the piping scheduled down, so i tested the one exposed braze and forgot about the other inside the insulation.I was worried a pressure switch or something was leaking.

thnx for the compliment!:D im confused by the rest of your comment lol:eh:

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Ah the last half was me some what lamenting my inability to post much of any thing due to money or having no relation to pc cooling, I'm in BC Canada ;)

You ever have freeze dried berries or ice cream? Verry high quality methode of dehydrating food, building one of them, but may post it some where even though not PC cooling related just so we have two big build threads from Canada lol :) They use a high vacuum 100mTorr (100Microns) and a -100 to -80 Coil to sublime ice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tim-

jinu:
you are wrong:
loctite is a brand. they have sealant for such as well as refco, they call it leaklock. those products is very common on commersial units, guess why? to prevent eventually leaks in the flare joints..

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Otherwise you can use Vaseline (petroleumbased greasy stuff) Dunno if it's named Vaseline in the states also.. But that's what we often used in flare joints on for example pressostats and so on. It's easier to take of also if there's a need for search the unit for any faults, but okey that's not that often one has to make that on a home built unit, if built well ofcourse.

Nice Cascade Sneil, and i hold my thumbs for your O/C results :)

Well ive done some work, sorry for the slow updates, it is getting done.;)

we are LEAK FREE! i finally went and got a new 01 orifice for the TXV and changed out the 00, ill charge her up hopefully tomorrow. I'll have to wait a bit before i get the Ethylene but it's coming. As you can see from the pics insulation and brazing is complete. I also changed the gauge lines to cap tube to prevent vibration to the case when they're mounted. Also modded the case itself adding the two suction line holes as well as an air intake hole on the side for the desuperheater. Need to finish the electrical before i put it into the case as well.

Well i was taking pictures and i thought why not just throw it in the case just for kicks. Still will have to take it out and do the electrical first but here's a peak at what it will look like. Fan grills will be mounted on the front as well as gauge mounts. Enjoy!

http://i25.tinypic.com/68qywg.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/eipoh1.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/n4fdpz.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/1zdc60y.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/hv330z.jpg

My buddy Charlie hangin out in the case.:p
http://i30.tinypic.com/112aic2.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/11lpg94.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/1hr1vb.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/28wfqtc.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/288bgr8.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2lkfj9l.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2w4imgp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2m5hyz9.jpg

That is a very Sweet Looking Unit !!!

So I take it that these units require 220 AC to run and what AMPS ?

Just asking as I am looking at what is needed for 2 and 3 stagers for my future shop ?

VERY good looking unit sneil.

WOW

thats amazing sneil. what are those going on? are those fans enough? its its going on some 8800 ultras...i hope they are kicking out some major cfm

:slobber::slobber::slobber:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

great work there BUT :D , you should think about add third evap for tri SLI setup :D

Awesome handmade stuff, Sneil. Beautiful work! :)

sexy as hell

i love it awesome work

wow that's an awesome cascade :clap:

Well done this project has turned out very nice, you must be very proud :clap:

nice unit!

Thanks everyone for the amazing compliments, glad you all like it.:) :) :) I put my heart and soul into this and she's been in the works for a long a$$ time. I'll be happier when it''s finally done and attached to some gpus!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

That is a very Sweet Looking Unit !!!

So I take it that these units require 220 AC to run and what AMPS ?

Just asking as I am looking at what is needed for 2 and 3 stagers for my future shop ?

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Thanks man.:) Nope these are 120v compressors. They draw 10.9Amps each plus all the fans running I'd guess around 25-30amps total.:rolleyes: Im going to get my buddy who's an electrician to install a 40 amp breaker and run the rated copper to my computer room. Im going to be running a single stage on the cpu as well.:yepp: Might just have the PC and SS run off a separate circuit all together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TopherTony

WOW

thats amazing sneil. what are those going on? are those fans enough? its its going on some 8800 ultras...i hope they are kicking out some major cfm

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Im thinking a pair of 9800gtx's, although so far they are looking quite disappointing and i, like everyone else i think, was expecting them to be monsters. I dont want to wait for the GT200 as im sure i'd be waiting at the least til summer. I dont have anything at the moment so ill wait it out till the 9800s are released and see how they stand up to the 8800s but regardless if they're on top most likely that's what i'll be throwing this on, unless ATI follows with something reasonably soon after.

And yea i was worried about the rear fans too. Front fans are more then enough, forget the cfm but its over 100 each. The rear fans are 80cfm. There's a lot of insulation blocking good air flow over the compressors so i might have to change at least the bottom ones to suck more air across the base. Dont know if there's anything higher then 80cfm 120mm LED fans out there though, but in the end LED's dont matter if the compressors are overheating. We'll see what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duniek

:slobber::slobber::slobber:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

great work there BUT :D , you should think about add third evap for tri SLI setup :D

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lol actually i was thinking of doing that when they announced the tri-sli, but I ended up holding back. Ill have to settle with just two for now.lol

I'll try to get the wiring done tonight and charge up the first stage tomorrow. Hopefully see some temps soon!!

Excellent.
Can't wait to see those results.
You have done an amazing job with this cascade, very tidy indeed.

that dog is beyond cute. period. what breed please?

also, insanely clean cascade, looks BEAUTIFUL!

don’t no how i missed this build Sneil

its a real work of art

i love the attention to detail can’t wait to see some gfx get it

well done man

Big piece of art :eek: :clap: :clap: .

Pice of ART.

You TRULY have tallent and you must be a perfectionist ;)?
You should start selling them :D

Now build another for a second X2 card :P
If I was you I would not have insulated your captubes, you still might have to trim them.

Sneil, where did you get those gpu, mounting plates. Did you make them? I need one of those aswell :- )

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Originally Posted by hifiking

Sneil, where did you get those gpu, mounting plates. Did you make them? I need one of those aswell :- )

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http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/member.php?u=15509

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hifiking

Sneil, where did you get those gpu, mounting plates. Did you make them? I need one of those aswell :- )

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I think it came in the kayl kit

totally outstanding work there sneil, this has got to be your best build yet mate, attention to every detail has been done and it shows in the final product.

Well done again on a bit of outstanding workmanship.

Thanks man, and everyone else for the kind words.:)

hifiking - yea i bought them off piotres a while back, had him ship em over here.

wow..... that is sweet

Oh hey, thank for the thread revival. I guess i should update:rolleyes: and thanks:)

So yea ive finally gotten off my a$$ and done some more work on this thing. I hadnt touched it since my last post but on the weekend i decided to up and get the first stage going. Still havent gotten the Ethylene and to tell you the truth im quite pi$$ed at Air Liquide. Ive talked to them twice since ive ordered and he basically brushed me off with the ya ya its on its way dont worry I told the guy to order it. No follow up with this "guy" or checking it up on the computer or anything. Going to call again and make sure i get some answers or else i'll tell him im taking my buisness to BOC Gas just two blocks over.;)

Anyway here's a few pics i took with the first stage going. Now its just a waiting game for the Ethylene.:mad:

Dont mind the ugly braze joint to the sight glass. I was afraid to get it too hot at the time, but it doesnt leak so all is good.:cool:
http://i25.tinypic.com/2wmgax3.jpg

liquid r507
http://i26.tinypic.com/k2bhn7.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/161ds2w.jpg

wow, that thing is gunna be -95c for sure.