getto chiller.

I've been slowly putting together the parts needed for a fairly serious chiller when i got a little impatient & decided to throw together a getto chiller to hold me over till the real deal is done.
I'm a metal fabracator & my current gig is working for a national
waste disposal company. not the most exciting job i've ever had
but the pay is ok & the bennys are good, plus there are side benifits like an almost endless supply of discarded frig's freezer's
dehumidifier's & AC's. so i grabbed a small appartment frig/freezer with a 1/12hp compressor, it took me an hour to cut it apart without breaking any lines & an hour to bend the evap to fit into a egloo & attach everything to a 1x3 foot sheet of plywood
. my 1st test with the freezer control set to the warmest setting gave me a no load temp of -3c. after a quick rap on the WB's & looping a few benches & cpu burnin it gave me a load temp of 16c
@ 2480mhz. nothing to write home to mom about but great for almost free. total investment $20=egloo i bought 8yrs ago & 2hrs
my time.

Good job, vlad. :D

I'll bet you had fun bending that evaporator. Those things are extremely easy to kink, break, or puncture.

yep great job.:D
starting from scratch is a great way to learn the basic's and understand how it works to enable you to build a better one.

GREAT JOB :toast:

yea it was fun. lets just say i had my safety glasses on the whole
time. a kid @ work had a few pop on him before he got it right.
@ 16/17c cpu temp (epox usdm) i was able to run sandrasoft @
2505mhz 12.5x200fsb. i'd been able to boot @ that speed but the coldest i could get it with ice was 20c but i couldnt bench just work in windows. it scored better @ 11x225fsb, so i have everything ripped apart for a good insulation job & while its apart
ill sand the NB a little more. maybe ill be able to hit 2.5ghz @ a higher fsb. theres definitly a new learning curve the colder you get, like strange boot problems"now she boots & now she dont".
reminds me of going from a carb/bike to a turbo. a diffrent set of rules, but thats ok i like learning new things, if it was easy everyone would be doing it. thanks guys. :thumbsup:

Thats awesome man. I wanna try something like that.

Looks like a lot of fun, and for 20 bucks, why the hell not :D

It's done & all set up. ill have pic's soon(need a better cam).
water temp is around -5c. cpu temps(usdm) are 14c idle 19c load
@2497mhz w/2.150v vcore. not the best temps but you cant beat the price.

Here it is. total investment in the chiller is now around $50.
insulation foam spray,laytex spray, pipe insulation tape & foam, 2gal distilled h2o, 1gal propylene glycol, 1/2 hose & 1 can brown
spray paint.
i had to at least match the room a little. that big orange egloo would look a bit out of place in a 125yr old house full of antiques.
my wife is pretty cool with my addiction tho. how many wifes would put up with not 1 but 3 computers in their living room
:smileysex . well everything looks good so far. i think i need a little more dielectric grease around the NB. after turning off the room AC i had a few tiny drops of water around the base near the agp slot:eek: for such a small compressor it keeps up with the load very well. i thought id see an increase in temps after a few hours of burn in & benches but even after 5 or 6 hours the load temps never changed. i going to swap pumps around to see how higher & lower flow rates effect the temps. thanks for all the ideas guys, keep'em coming & bowman i love your modshop thread. later guys:thumbsup:

Do you have any bigger pics ?

Looks awesome, is the pump inside the res/cooler?

No problem. hows this? & yes the pump is in the res. it a 325gph
pond pump. thanks this is just to hold me over till i can build something better. i hope to get well below freezing with that one.

Heres one of the res with the top off. i've been working 12hr days
lately so its been off. normally theres a 1" thick layer of ice around
the evap. i may up the percentage of proplene glycol. so far the pump hasnt complaned but the pump maker said not below freezing. when i asked if i was running a liquid that wouldnt freeze how cold could the pump run before sh*tting the bed they couldnt tell me. i gess they dont have too many people using their
pond pumps for computers. haha:D

When ice starts forming on the evaporator, all of the system capacity will be used to make ice instead of cooling. In other words, the temperature stops right there and can go no lower until you strengthen the mixture.

Thanks. thats what i thought. i fugured thats what was keeping
it from going below -5. my friend @ work is running 100% windshield washer fluid & his water temps or -16. but he uses 5/16" hose so i dont think hes getting full use of it. hes running a 2400 & 2500(diffrent step then mine) & he cant get it stable @
2.5ghz. thanks gary. you & bowman are a lot of help.:thumbsup:

Windshield washer fluid is a weak mixture of methanol and water. If your friends coolant starts slushing, tell him to dump a can of gas line anti-freeze in there to strengthen it. Gas line anti-freeze is pure methanol.

Also tell him to keep a tight lid on it. Methanol is flammable and the fumes are not healthy.

You're welcome. :D

yea the only drawback to using washer fluid is evaperation of the liquid.
allways keep the lid of very tight.if you could make a gasket for the top and screw it down tight it would help in keeping the evaperation down to a minimum.
the better grade washer fluid you buy the more methanol it will contain/the washer fluid i was using would handle -27c temps and look like water going though the lines.

those are the reasons i didnt take that route. refering back to my drag racing days, we used methanol a lot. neet stuff as long as nothing goes wrong. it has great cooling propertys. in fact when we used it with nitrous we had to enrichen with gas to bring the combustion chamber temps up or they wouldnt be too cold. it cooled so well we filled the engine blocks with epoxy & pumped coolent only thru the heads. im going to stay with the mix im using
just up the % untill theres no more ice forming on the evap. thanks again guys! keep'em coming. later.:thumbsup:

Im using alcohol/water at 90/10. Seems to be working pretty good so far, doesnt slush up at lower temps like some does.

Anyway good job with that, looks clean!

vlad....that's incredible work. You should right an article with lots of pictures, describing how you insulated everything. I tried to use foam to insulate my maze 2 waterblock, but no luck. Building the waterchiller was fine, insulating is a §§§§§! I just can't seem to get it right. :mad:

http://www.phase-change.com/index.ph...s&id=25&page=1

Thats one of the best articals about condensation proofing, it was made by our own bowman. For insulation on a waterblock i use that spray foam, works fine even with -20c water.

Well i've been playing with the mix. i was running 2/3 distilled water 1/3 proplene glycol.3gal total. i removed 1gal & added 1gal
denatured alcohol. the evap doesnt ice up as much, the res was @ -5c before now i dont know how cold it is because the thermometer im using doesnt read very well below -10c, but my cpu temps went from 14c/19c to 10c idle 16c load. it's running
stable @ 2507mhz . it hit 17k in 2k1 with the card @ default. ill burn in a bit more before maxing out the card. just for the hell of it
i bumped it to 2541mhz(11.5x220fsb) it ran some pretty decent
#'s in sandra soft but kicked out in the last test in pc mark & the 1st test in 2k1. ill burn in some more & give it another try. but for now 2507mhz is ok with me.:D

I got a digital thermometer now & it shows the no load res temp is -15c.:D but now @ the lower temps im having more condensation problems:( but on the upside 2507mhz is completely stable & im working on 2541mhz(11.5x221fsb). it past
the post test @ 2604mhz but kicked out of windows, it just a little more time. i also have a few more ideas im going to try to get the temps lower once i conquer the condensation problem.

THIS IS BETTER THEN CRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

I've been playing around with sealing the reservoir better. i got evap of the alcohol to a min. i got alot better air flow across the condencer & now the res temp is down to -19c:D . but! since its been so hot ive only been able to get the room temp to 23c & no matter how long i run the AC its still very damp. so now my problem is condensation forming on the back side of everything.
when i started my "getto chiller" i didnt think i was going to get the temps this low so the only insulating i did to the back side was a thick layer of dielectric grease & up till now its been enough. on the upside she booted @ 2600mhz(12x217fsb)
loaded windows fine but the condensation forming on the video
card was too much so rather then hurt it i shut down. ill rip her apart & do her up right this time.:thumbsup:.

If you slow down the fan speed on your A/C it will pull out more moisture, but if it is too slow it will freeze the coil.

Is this central A/C or a window shaker?

thats insanely cool!(pun)

whats the lowest temp u are possible to acheive?

Nice setup- on the cheap too! :eek:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
If you slow down the fan speed on your A/C it will pull out more moisture, but if it is too slow it will freeze the coil.

Is this central A/C or a window shaker?

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Its an older window unit around 12000btu/115v/R22 my wife doesnt know it yet but it may be my next chiller.another i may use for a chiller is 18000btu/220v.the old owner left us 7 window units. the house
125yrs old, below the wood floor in the basement is dirt & with
all the rain we've had lately its damp. even with the AC in 1 room & a dehumdifier in the other its still damp. the good thing about the basement is in the winter its heated by a wood stove so its
very very dry & no matter how hot you get it the temp on the
floor is always 60f , the rest of the house is oil heat. thanks for the help. ill have to check out your website soon i see theres a forum for overclockers.

Quote:

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Originally posted by AcEmAsTr
thats insanely cool!(pun)

whats the lowest temp u are possible to acheive?

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I havent had a chance to test it @ -19c(res) yet. but when it was
@ -15c my temps were +10 idle +16 load. i just bumped the pump
up from 325gph to 535gph so that should help a little too. so far
the total cost is $85.:D

Run your window A/C on "Low Cool". This will dehumidify better.

redid the mix, now im running 1gal propolyne glycol 2gal alcohol. my temps(res) are now -22c.:banana:
"update" i left the chiller run with no load for 24hrs to see if any ice formed on the evap the no load res temp is now -24c (-11f) &
there is no ice what so ever on the evap:banana: :banana: . my
cpu temps @2724mhz w/1.95v vcore are now around 0c/+1 idle
load maxed @ +5c(3d2k1&2k3) +3 (sandra & pcmark). this is a very small unit (1/12hp)& it can only maintane these temps @ the loads i run(very heavy benching) for a matter of hours, but i knew this from the start. i built this with the idea of making it as cheeply
as possable & to gain knowledge & experience for my next chiller
which will use a 1/4 or 1/2hp compressor. to date the cost has been $100+ my labor. :D

Hey all. i got another unit for my chiller. it's window ac, it has a LG electronics compressor (QA082CA11B R22). i looked it up on LG's site but it's an older unit so its not listed the 084 model is 6000btu/hr so that should put it just under 6000. what temps do you think i should get out of this 1? I've been getting just under
-25c from my first attempt but the recovery isnt the best since it's
a 1/12 hp freezer. what i was thinking is there's enough room in my chiller barrel to leave the freezer evap & add the ac evap, this way i can run the freezer unit 24/7 to maintain a low temp & run both when im benching or gaming. with a little rearranging it should'nt take up any more space then it already does. what do you think? Thanks again guys you've been alot of help.:)

Doesn't the window A/C list the BTU's on the nameplate?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Doesn't the window A/C list the BTU's on the nameplate?

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Yes it does. it says 5000btu/hr. but when i looked up the compressor @ LG's site they showed under their QA model that 075=75cc comp=5250btu/hr & 084=84cc comp= 6000btu/hr so i furgured its closer to 6000 then 5000.

Well i had a little spair time tonight & decided to give it hell. i found out that even tho both evap's would fit in the chiller barrel it was hard to get both condenser's mounted with out breaking one of the cap tubes & since im not set up to recharge yet i went with only the new unit. after carefully bending the lines to go where i wanted them i fired her up, as i thought the temps started to drop alot faster then with the freezer. after 45min the no load temps were -18c, after 1.5hrs its now -30c. ill leave it running over night to see how low it will go but so far i think its turned out good. the recovery is alot faster then before. one question i have is about insulating the lines from the comp to the evap. for now just testing i left them uninsulated & they're frosted
up big time. when i insulated the lines on the freezer unit the temps went from -25c to -20c but after removing some of the insulation near the compressor the temps went back to -25c?
i know on prommie's they insulate all the way to the compressor
so why did the temps go up? thanks.

You need to remove some refrigerant.

Get a piercing schrader valve and put it on the compressor process tube. Let out a little, wait fifteen minutes or so, let out a little more, etc., until you get best temp under full load.

Hey Gary
Thanks for the reply. before going to bed the temp was -31c. this morning (4 hours later) it's -34c. the lines from comp to the barrel
& half way back on the cap tube have about 1 1/2" 2" of frost. do
you think bleeding it a bit will drop the temps anymore? or do you think that may be the max for this size compressor? my experience with AC is limited to automotive when i was a mech, but thats about 20yrs ago. i remember that as you charged the system if you went over the factory specs for psi the temps got a
little better then just a little more & the evaporator core would ice over. its been a long time & i need to bone up on my skills again. hey you wouldnt know anyone who writes books on Refrig's would you? haha, later.

On a cap tube system, as the evaporator temperature drops, less refrigerant flow is needed because the heat load has decreased. Therefore a system that has the right amount of refrigerant for A/C temps has too much refrigerant for freezer temps. If the bottom of your compressor gets cold at the lowest temperatures, the system is overcharged to the point where the compressor valves are endangered.

I think starting with a window A/C or dehumidifier chiller without breaking into the lines and losing the refrigerant is a very good way to learn phase change. The next logical step in the educational process is to get a piercing valve and a set of gauges, and learn to tweak the refrigerant charge for optimum performance. Then comes the cap tube change, evacuation and charging.

Keep in mind that psi is a means to an end. If you look up the pressures on a pressure/temperature chart for that refrigerant, you will find the saturation temperatures. Those are what is important, not the pressures.

I might be able to find a good book for you with a little research. :D

Hey Gary
im addressing this to you because youre the only one who ever replys. anyway i didnt pick up the piercing valve or gauges yet, i was sick last week, but yesterday i got out to my workshop & mounted the factory fan shroud & fan & insulated the lines. after an hour it was@ -31c it took a little while but it got down to -38.5c
:D but now i know for sure ill have to insulate the barrel, it was pretty cold in my shop & the barrel was sweating bad. i have some ceramic fiber from a heat treating fernus i built for a customer a few yrs ago ill use. ;)

Nice setup you have got there. :toast:

Any more pics?

We tend to think of the computer components as the heat load for the system, but in fact anything that is cold is viewed by the system as heat load, and the system has to work that much harder to carry that load. If if feels cold, or even cool, insulate it. That isn't cold getting out, it is heat getting in.

Frost is the enemy. Insulation is our friend.

Quote:

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Originally posted by isp
Nice setup you have got there. :toast:

Any more pics?

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Here's one sorry about the quality, ill try to bum a better cam from work. i finished insulating the lines & i cut the ceramic fiber. ill pick up some spray adhesive & aluminum tape tomorrow. it wont be finished for a while tho because i going to redo the insulation on the waterblocks & im replacing the WB on the videocard because it has a poly top, -25c was one thing but almost -40c is another.;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Insulation is our friend.

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I agree big time, i learned that years ago when i use to dragrace a turbo Kaw, when the turbo is 2" from the fuel tank you learn alot about heat transfer. i would insulate the tank bottom & line to the carb & chill the fuel in a cooler till min's before the race.;)
thats a fiberglass tank it only holds 1gal. GOD i miss that crap!
but this is alot safer.

Got any pics of the blocks insulated?

I got a original LWWR and maze 3 gpu blocks in the mail. 60 bucks too :D

Anyways, im so confused on how to insulate a block, what happens witht eh bottom?

Hey XX
Do a search on "insulation idea" its a thread i started the first time i did my waterblocks, i havent updated it in a while but basicly you want to install your hose & clamps(TIGHT!) once the insulation is on you wont be able to, cover the bottom, the first
time i taped cardboard to cover the face, do allyour lapping first.
get some wood dollrod that fits in the holes & cover them with wax, i used pva because i had it from when i used to fab body parts but anything that will keep the foam from sticking will work.
coat the face of the WB too.then put the block inside a cardboard box & spray insulation foam filling the box. after it drys cut it into a square then fit it to clear anything on the mobo or card ti may touch once its done cover the foam with either spray rubber undercoating or liquid electric tape, use alot! at first i didnt put enough. i have a better idea for the mounting bolts but too much to go thur now, check out the thread, anything else you need to know let me know. good luck.:thumbsup:

This wasnt enought! i went over it with more insulation tape, & another thing that is your friend is Dielectric grease "LOTS OF IT".
depending on how cold you get youll have to do the back of everything too, its alot of crap to go thru but once you got it right
its worth it. before i ripped everything apart again i was getting close to 2800mhz :D later.

Here it is with the ceramic fiber installed.

And here it is with a sheet of neoprene over the ceramic fiber.
next ill make a cover.

Hey guys. she hits -33c quick then takes a few hours to hit
max low but Here it is.:D no load.

Looking better all the time, Vlad. :D

Is the bottom of the compressor cold?

Wow vlad nice job there!! Looks nice too should be great for some nice clocks!! :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Looking better all the time, Vlad. :D

Is the bottom of the compressor cold?

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luke warm, ill bring my lazer temp gun home from work monday
& get a temp for you. right now i shut her down to see how good my insulation job on the barrel turned out. thanks gary.

Quote:

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Originally posted by DoGMaN
Wow vlad nice job there!! Looks nice too should be great for some nice clocks!! :D

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Thanks DoGMaN. i got to 2724mhz with my first chiller @ -25c so this should help a bit. i recently picked up a used MK I and have been playing with it so if i get it dialed in the chiller will go back on the NB & VC only. it should be fun. i cant wait to see how your R502 mod works.good luck. between all the info out there on 404
502 & 507 ill decide what way i want to go. i've been looking at some better temp gauges for the prommie i dont trust the factory
one. thanks again.

I agree about the prom temp gauge. I'm trying to figure out a way to mount a nice j or k type thermocouple without interfereing with mounting the head. If I can get the spec for the cap line of the prom, I can figure out how much to add and be done with it. Until then I'm stuck with a prom holding a vacuum. :(

-42 is awesome!!

After it hits -42 and you turn on the comp, whats it level off at?

Right now its not hooked to my computer because im ironing out
some details with the prommie i picked up. when i hook it back up it will only be on the northbridge & videocard. my firstchiller @ -25c was on the cpu gpu & nb & it was good for about an hour
or so of hard benching before the temps got too hi, but it didnt have the recovery this one has so i think it should able to maintain sub 0 temps no matter what i throw at it.

Sounds like its gonna be a killer setup. Is the benching only rig or what?

Did ya get the machI used? Ive been looking for a used on all over :(

Thanks & yes i built it only for benching & maybe some gaming,
but mainly benching. she runs great but there are a few things i want to change to make her better, like ive hit 230fsb but the geil wont run real tight over 220fsb & the card runs good but i need to volt mod it, the search is never over, thats the problem with an addiction its never good enough. the MK I is used, i just put a thread in the wanted forum & waited. its stock except i tweaked the settings a bit & added a 120mm fan in front of the condencer. i start it off its own psu, it hits -40 to -43c in 12 to 15min then drops 6c by windows then creeps back up 1 or 2c. idle temp @ 2724mhz with 1.95v is -9c. some day ill mod it either that or beg bowman to mod it for me(hint hint);) later bro keep me informed on your rig & if i can help i'd be more then glad to, kinda like shairing in the addiction.:D