But Wait, There's More NVIDIA G92 for 2007 (8800GTS 128SP)

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10-31-2007, 02:55 PM
mascaras

But Wait, There's More NVIDIA G92 for 2007 (8800GTS 128SP)

New 8800GTS 512mb & 1GB with 128SP in December

Quote:

But Wait, There's More NVIDIA G92 for 2007

On the heels of one of its most successful launches in history, NVIDIA sets its sights on AMD's next graphics refresh

NVIDIA's GeForce 8800 GT might be remembered as one of the most successful NVIDIA graphics cards of our time, at least according to the flurry of reviews this week. Virtually every top tier e-tailer managed to sell out of the card in less than two days.

Yet NVIDIA isn't done yet. A G92-derivative will appear later this year with even more shader units. According to company guidance, the new G92 will launch in early December and feature 128 shader units as opposed to the 112 featured on GeForce 8800 GT.

This would be mean the additional 16 shader units exist on all GeForce 8800 GT cards, but are disabled for yield or marketing purposes. In addition to the extra shaders, the new G92 will also feature higher core frequencies and support for up to 1GB GDDR3.

The new 65nm G92 has a tentative SKU designation of GeForce 8800 GTS. This might sound confusing as NVIDIA already sports a GeForce 8800 GTS card based on the 90nm G80 silicon. However, since G92 sports a 256-bit memory interface, the new 8800 GTS cards will feature traditional memory blocks of 512MB or 1024MB. The older, G80-based GeForce 8800 GTS features 320-bit memory blocks of 320MB or 640MB.

As the new GeForce 8800 GT generally outpaces the existing GeForce 8800 GTS, the new GeForce 8800 GTS will likely surpass NVIDIA's high-end GeForce 8800 GTX and potentially GeForce 8800 Ultra.

NVIDIA doesn't just risk cannibalizing its own high-end offerings -- AMD's launch schedule for Radeon HD 3800 (RV670) is slated for just a few days before NVIDIA's G92 re-launch. AMD corporate guidance suggests the company will launch its Phenom desktop processor and RD790 desktop chipset simultaneously with its new graphics offering.

Source: DailyTech

:up:
10-31-2007, 02:58 PM
cadaveca

wow. What's with the naming?:stick: I wonder if the next card will have just one SLI connector like current 8800GT?

Then 8800GTX/ULTRA would have selling feature of tri-sli only...and hopefully much lower price?
10-31-2007, 02:59 PM
voltaire2030

the new G92 will launch in early December
AMD's launch schedule for Radeon HD 3800 (RV670) is slated for just a few days before NVIDIA's G92 re-launch.

December for G92 GTS and HD3XXX :confused:
10-31-2007, 02:59 PM
safan80

maybe this will drive down the GTX price on ebay.
10-31-2007, 03:04 PM
mascaras

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltaire2030

the new G92 will launch in early December
AMD's launch schedule for Radeon HD 3800 (RV670) is slated for just a few days before NVIDIA's G92 re-launch.

December for G92 GTS and HD3XXX :confused:

Quote:

AMD's launch schedule for Radeon HD 3800 (RV670) is slated for just a few days (15th /19th November) before NVIDIA's G92 re-launch. (december)

few days = around 10 days/ 2 weeks

:up:
10-31-2007, 03:07 PM
Patriote

When can we expect the best of G92 like the 9800GTX or something?
10-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriote

When can we expect the best of G92 like the 9800GTX or something?

Won't be G92....
10-31-2007, 03:15 PM
voltaire2030

Quote:

Originally Posted by mascaras

few days = around 10 days/ 2 weeks

:up:

Make more sense now :D

But December for GTS G92 ... :confused:

There are missing the Crysis launch in mid November ... With the popularity of the GT, most of them all sold already,I find it odd that they will offer that GPU only in December :confused:

Unless, they know that HD3XXX sucks and they will produce from now to mid November a sh@t load of GT to flood the market ....
10-31-2007, 03:19 PM
K404

Seeing as most retailers had maybe 15-20 8800GT cards (all vendors combined) on launch day I'll hold off on opening the champagne to celebrate selling through on all stock so fast.

Im genuinely surprised nVidia are calling the new stuff.... the same thing as the old stuff.....

it makes no sense and it makes us confused!
10-31-2007, 03:23 PM
RPGWiZaRD

To wait or not to wait, that's the question...
10-31-2007, 03:24 PM
zerazax

Here's what I think might happen:

We all know that G92 usually has 128SP's, but that 1 of the 8 are de-activated / laser-etched out. Thus, we know that G92 can support 128SP's. It makes little sense for Nvidia to sit around disabling cores that could be at their full potential. Hence, we might see a GTS version with 128SP's (what they really need to do is rename 8800GT to 8900GT, and name the 128SP GTS to 8900GTS). Then we have GTS > GT again.

Afterwards, Nvidia can combine two GT's together and make a new GX2 as they did before. Then marketing can have a field day with the 1GB (2 x 512MB), 224 SP's, etc. Lets just hope its drivers don't suck like the GX2's ended up being.

Or, IIRC, the G80 was touted as having the capability of reaching 160SP's but thermals, cost, and power could not work on the 90nm process. With 65nm, they might see if they can expand the G92 to 160 SP's with new revisions and increase shader clocks as well, and make a new GTX/Ultra. Then we'd be back at GTX>GTS>GT. If you use how Nvidia calculates flops, a GTX with 160 SP's at 2000 Shader Clock is ~1TFp (3 x 160 x 2000 as they calculate it) and voila, you have that magic 1TFp card of ancient lore everyone talks about.

And that way you can release those new high ends at early next year once work is done with them and sway the crowd over until the real new generation architecture (9-series) gets released sometime halfway next year.

A big reason why the 8-series architecture has lived so long with minimal changes is simple: the G80 is one of the most advanced and best designed cores ever made in video card history. Why abandon something so quickly that has been a winner? 9-series work is undoutedly already well under way, but if there is no rush to get that one out, keep working with what you have.
10-31-2007, 03:25 PM
zerazax

Oh and I absolutely agree the dumbest move ever was to name it 8800 all over again. 8900 makes sense.

gj confusing everyone Nvidia
10-31-2007, 03:25 PM
7499richard

i agree about the naming...wtf

how stupid is this? move on nvidia its confusing as :banana::banana::banana::banana: and makes completly no sense to be doing it like this.

this is a dumb idea to name them the same thing, there obivously completly different cards so get a new name already
10-31-2007, 03:29 PM
Patriote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Won't be G92....

Really? SO the whole G92 lines won't be much much better (If not any) than a 8800GTX? Only good thing about them is that they support DX10.1, right?
10-31-2007, 03:36 PM
7499richard

well i think that if they do as zerax suggests, and it is a good conclusion, they do a refresh of the gts and then gtx that the gtx will destroy the current gtx. The GT is only a little bit slower then the GTX now, so the gts will obivously be faster and the GTX would be even faster.

But who knows what they are going to do, the naming is terrible though
10-31-2007, 03:41 PM
Patriote

Indeed. It's rather confusing!
10-31-2007, 04:06 PM
zerazax

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html

"HD DVD / Blu-ray Video Playback on NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB and 8800 GT is classified as Excellent. HD DVD / Blu-ray Video Playback on NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra, GeForce 8800 GTX and GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB/640MB are classified as Good. "

Well that pretty much confirms it... 512MB 8800GTS is otw.
10-31-2007, 04:12 PM
7499richard

looks like it ehh...good eye to catch that
10-31-2007, 04:23 PM
turtletrax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriote

Really? SO the whole G92 lines won't be much much better (If not any) than a 8800GTX? Only good thing about them is that they support DX10.1, right?

I thought they dont support DX10.1. Anyone confirm?
10-31-2007, 04:23 PM
zerazax

They don't.
10-31-2007, 04:26 PM
XS Janus

OK, so who thinks they will start phasing out GTXs as soon as the new "GTS" is released, please raise their hand...

My guess it wont be long after the new "GTS" release till we see the new product emerging.
10-31-2007, 04:30 PM
voltaire2030

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Here's what I think might happen:

We all know that G92 usually has 128SP's, but that 1 of the 8 are de-activated / laser-etched out. Thus, we know that G92 can support 128SP's. It makes little sense for Nvidia to sit around disabling cores that could be at their full potential. Hence, we might see a GTS version with 128SP's (what they really need to do is rename 8800GT to 8900GT, and name the 128SP GTS to 8900GTS). Then we have GTS > GT again.

Afterwards, Nvidia can combine two GT's together and make a new GX2 as they did before. Then marketing can have a field day with the 1GB (2 x 512MB), 224 SP's, etc. Lets just hope its drivers don't suck like the GX2's ended up being.

Or, IIRC, the G80 was touted as having the capability of reaching 160SP's but thermals, cost, and power could not work on the 90nm process. With 65nm, they might see if they can expand the G92 to 160 SP's with new revisions and increase shader clocks as well, and make a new GTX/Ultra. Then we'd be back at GTX>GTS>GT. If you use how Nvidia calculates flops, a GTX with 160 SP's at 2000 Shader Clock is ~1TFp (3 x 160 x 2000 as they calculate it) and voila, you have that magic 1TFp card of ancient lore everyone talks about.

And that way you can release those new high ends at early next year once work is done with them and sway the crowd over until the real new generation architecture (9-series) gets released sometime halfway next year.

A big reason why the 8-series architecture has lived so long with minimal changes is simple: the G80 is one of the most advanced and best designed cores ever made in video card history. Why abandon something so quickly that has been a winner? 9-series work is undoutedly already well under way, but if there is no rush to get that one out, keep working with what you have.

Good post zerazax:up:
10-31-2007, 04:31 PM
tbone8ty

yeah il buy a gtx for $250
10-31-2007, 04:32 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriote

Really? SO the whole G92 lines won't be much much better (If not any) than a 8800GTX? Only good thing about them is that they support DX10.1, right?

Actually, G92 doesn't have DX10.1 support. It's basically a die shrink with the better video decoder from the 8600 series, a few architectural changes, and a 'weaker' memory controller. Basically, a small, low cost, low power, tweaked G80 with the best video decoder nV has.

Still clocks well enough to mostly outperform G80 though :)

Very nice post zerazax.
10-31-2007, 04:49 PM
7499richard

i just want to know when the next cream of the crop is coming out...like when the 8800GTX came out it was a monster, when is the next thing like thay going to happen, I want something new to play around with.
10-31-2007, 05:45 PM
zornundo

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekFSE

I wonder if they are having yeild issues, and that is why we arent seeing a GTS or GTX.

Could be, or it may be that they don't feel a need to release something more powerful than the GTX. AMD has nothing to offer that will beat the GTX. With no pressure from AMD, Nvidia can sit happy with its high-priced offerings.
10-31-2007, 05:47 PM
zerazax

I think its yield issues

While retailers sold out on 8800GT's quite quick, its unknown how many were sold exactly (some stores had < 30 or so apparently) and on a new process, the first batches are always hard to have (not to mention that pushing up a release 2 weeks isn't a good way to ensure good batches). But it goes in line with the thinking that new die processes start off w/ a mid-range priced card - that way if :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: hits the fan, it won't be on the flaghship
10-31-2007, 05:49 PM
Machinus

If they called it 8850 no one would buy their stock of 8800 cards. Confuse the buyer = more profit. Hence Intel, Asus, etc.
10-31-2007, 06:11 PM
DeathReborn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Actually, G92 doesn't have DX10.1 support. It's basically a die shrink with the better video decoder from the 8600 series, a few architectural changes, and a 'weaker' memory controller. Basically, a small, low cost, low power, tweaked G80 with the best video decoder nV has.

Still clocks well enough to mostly outperform G80 though :)

Very nice post zerazax.

I think the PV3 in the 8800GT is the next step up from the 8600's version as it now does full VC-1 acceleration.

The new 8800GTS would outperform the old GTX if it was 128SP 575+/1650+/2000+. I however am expecting it to have slightly higher vGPU and clocks of 650-700 as stock (725-800 Vendor OC cards). nVidia would probably price it at $300-399, if closer to $300 there might be a slight drop in the 8800GT 512MB prices.

Of course the big question would be if it keeps to 16 ROP's as the 256bit suggests.

Some retailers in the UK had upwards of 150+ (50 of several models).
10-31-2007, 06:33 PM
AliG

What I'm really wondering is what's going on right now in the mind of nv's ceo. Either he must have some crazy product up his sleeve, or a crazy scheme, because creating midrange cards that demolish your performance cards for less $$$ just doesn't seem to be the best business tactic.

just a thought
10-31-2007, 06:44 PM
turbox997

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Here's what I think might happen:

We all know that G92 usually has 128SP's, but that 1 of the 8 are de-activated / laser-etched out. Thus, we know that G92 can support 128SP's. It makes little sense for Nvidia to sit around disabling cores that could be at their full potential. Hence, we might see a GTS version with 128SP's (what they really need to do is rename 8800GT to 8900GT, and name the 128SP GTS to 8900GTS). Then we have GTS > GT again.

Afterwards, Nvidia can combine two GT's together and make a new GX2 as they did before. Then marketing can have a field day with the 1GB (2 x 512MB), 224 SP's, etc. Lets just hope its drivers don't suck like the GX2's ended up being.

Or, IIRC, the G80 was touted as having the capability of reaching 160SP's but thermals, cost, and power could not work on the 90nm process. With 65nm, they might see if they can expand the G92 to 160 SP's with new revisions and increase shader clocks as well, and make a new GTX/Ultra. Then we'd be back at GTX>GTS>GT. If you use how Nvidia calculates flops, a GTX with 160 SP's at 2000 Shader Clock is ~1TFp (3 x 160 x 2000 as they calculate it) and voila, you have that magic 1TFp card of ancient lore everyone talks about.

And that way you can release those new high ends at early next year once work is done with them and sway the crowd over until the real new generation architecture (9-series) gets released sometime halfway next year.

A big reason why the 8-series architecture has lived so long with minimal changes is simple: the G80 is one of the most advanced and best designed cores ever made in video card history. Why abandon something so quickly that has been a winner? 9-series work is undoutedly already well under way, but if there is no rush to get that one out, keep working with what you have.

I don't know if there'll be another GX2, I believe the GX2 was more of a desperation move since they were losing against ATi at the time and had to release something for marketing superiority. IE: "we have the fastest single slot solution!"

As for the names, yes it's confusing, but remember how so many of us complained when they were coming out with "GS, GT, GTS, GTX" segment lines, I thought it was insane that they gave us that many choices and segments/niches. But now, said and done, I kind of like it, and I kind of understand their reasoning.

Usually...but not always... they seem to release two top contenders(say.. GTS/GTX), then they release a respin say the GT, then one more last respin that adds value to the product line: GS.

So starts to make some sense now, as chaotic as it is, it's all released in time revisions, but it's extremely confusing to people who try to buy a GPU after all lines have been released and they're out of the loop, one might say, "where do I begin?? Which is better than the other?!?!"
10-31-2007, 07:02 PM
adamsleath

if they already making much dough then there is no incentive to create new products in the high end bracket
just think how much $$ they'll make from 8800gt ....lots.

how much is made in the 100-230usd price bracket?
vs this niche bracket of 230-300 [8800gt]
then 300+ high end cards. supposed g92 8800gts, etal.

nvidia have jumped the gun on ati's new niche offering.
just like intel has filled lower cost/budget cpu levels(+high end)
competition only serves to strengthen the monopoloy of intel and nvidia :doh:
and yet amd/ati does provide an alternative in the gcard world when priced in the right bracket.
there's more money in the sub-high end than in the high end....so what incentive is there to produce a new high end:shrug:

the upgrade market in the sub high end price bracket should be huge...if the performance features are there.

so bulk of market is 100-300usd...what products can they squeeze into that bracket?

300-400 /400-500 /500+?

im just curious about sales figures in all the brackets and where the no of units/and total value of sales distribution is spread:yawn:
is it a bell curve?

this new g92 gts could easily wipe out even more ati sales...particularly as the 2900xt hovers around the 400+usd mark.

if sales are satisfactory without upgrade market then there is no need for high end advances....just fill in sub-high-end niches to capitalise on what tech they got already.

and when will new monster be? 3months or a year away or in between or never?
10-31-2007, 08:30 PM
xenolith

I really don't understand why there's so much confusion. It's as simple as:

8800GTS 320/640 = old GPU (G80)

8800GTS 512/1GB = refreshed GPU (G92)

Though, I do agree, naming the refreshed GPU "8900GTS" might have prevented Joe-6-pack from getting confused, but with us XS'ers there's no need. :up:
10-31-2007, 09:10 PM
shiznit93

This is starting to make a little sense to me now. Nvidia wants to phase out the more expensive to make 90nm cards, which is why they didn't call it 8900GT, no one would buy the remaining g80s. A little sly but as a shareholder I can't object. 8800GT is obviously the g92 with 112sp and the new GTS will be the full g92 with 128sp, the g80 GTS and GTX will be discontinued while the great 8800 brand is retained as the midrange, cheaper to produce at 65nm with 256bit memory bus. This is where the real money is made.

Then I think Nvidia will release a NEW substantially more powerful GPU core with more shader units and hopefully dx 10.1. The lower yield version will be the 8900GTX with some units disabled around $450-500, and the full yield version will be the 8900Ultra around $550-600 . Ultra is good brand and deserves to be more than just overclocked GTX. The whole range from mid to top high end will be covered, there will be a clear distinction between the 8800 mid level and 8900 high end. They will be able to spread yields for both G92 and the G9X, and their partners will be able to offer superclocked versions of each model. It just better happen during my step up period :), my 8800gt should ship this week.
10-31-2007, 11:15 PM
xt0m

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit93

This is starting to make a little sense to me now. Nvidia wants to phase out the more expensive to make 90nm cards, which is why they didn't call it 8900GT, no one would buy the remaining g80s. A little sly but as a shareholder I can't object. 8800GT is obviously the g92 with 112sp and the new GTS will be the full g92 with 128sp, the g80 GTS and GTX will be discontinued while the great 8800 brand is retained as the midrange, cheaper to produce at 65nm with 256bit memory bus. This is where the real money is made.

ya, makes good sense - just wondered why they didnt announce the two G92-"upgrades" simultaneously..
10-31-2007, 11:21 PM
cadaveca

yeilds makes sense...they released the card they knew the gpu's could hit with decent yeilds, all the time binning for the higher-performance cards...once stock of the gpu's has built up enough, they'll have a release.
11-01-2007, 12:09 AM
LordEC911

Anyone else feel a G92, 8800GS, coming with 96SPs?

BTW- Adam, yes it is a pretty much a bell curve.
11-01-2007, 04:33 AM
OzJustin

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenolith

I really don't understand why there's so much confusion. It's as simple as:

8800GTS 320/640 = old GPU (G80)

8800GTS 512/1GB = refreshed GPU (G92)

Though, I do agree, naming the refreshed GPU "8900GTS" might have prevented Joe-6-pack from getting confused, but with us XS'ers there's no need. :up:

My thoughts exactly. It really isn't that hard at all to differentiate the new cards when looking at the vram. Every man and his dog should be able to see 320 and 512 are different. Five minutes of reading will tell you which card is superior. ;)
11-01-2007, 07:06 AM
EternityZX9

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Here's what I think might happen:

Or, IIRC, the G80 was touted as having the capability of reaching 160SP's but thermals, cost, and power could not work on the 90nm process. With 65nm, they might see if they can expand the G92 to 160 SP's with new revisions and increase shader clocks as well, and make a new GTX/Ultra. Then we'd be back at GTX>GTS>GT. If you use how Nvidia calculates flops, a GTX with 160 SP's at 2000 Shader Clock is ~1TFp (3 x 160 x 2000 as they calculate it) and voila, you have that magic 1TFp card of ancient lore everyone talks about.

Mmm, it's quite possible the next generation will have 192 SP and 2400Mhz Shader clocks. :up:
11-15-2007, 04:40 AM
GoriLLakoS

G92 8800GTS 512 / 3 December
128 SP
Core Clock 650MHz
SHader P. Clock 1625MHz
256bit
Memory Clock GDDR3 970MHz（1940MHz）
TDP 140W
Price ~ 299-349$

Maybe we are waiting for a new ULTRA @ G92 at January
11-15-2007, 05:15 AM
joe.latino

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoriLLakoS

G92 8800GTS 512 / 3 December
128 SP
Core Clock 650MHz
SHader P. Clock 1625MHz
256bit
Memory Clock GDDR3 970MHz（1940MHz）
TDP 140W
Price ~ 299-349$

Maybe we are waiting for a new ULTRA @ G92 at January

new gts will have also with 24 rops and 32 TMU;)
11-24-2007, 12:09 PM
mundi

Are anywhere some test new 8800GTS 128SP or compare with another GPU ?
Can`t find