X48 chipset is X38 upgrades, inherits X38's Bug?

http://www.expreview.com/img/news/071010/x48_block.jpg
According to the info we have, the upcoming X48, actually is selected X38 chip.

Of course, Intel push up the performance of the chipset. We all know X48 supports 1600MHz FSB YorkField and Supports DDR3 1600 XMP. Of course Intel finally decide to abandon DDR2.

http://www.expreview.com/img/news/071013/x38_bug_1.jpg
Because X48 are only an"OC version of X38”,the bug inside X38 still exists in X48. for example, if the computer have a warm reset or S3(post to ram), the PCIe width may reduces. you may experience Such bugs in X48.

original post http://news.expreview.com/2007-10-13...3971d3928.html

So basically keep P35 since X38 & X48 are busted?

What/When is the next one? Eaglelake?

At least they admit to problems...

But it is a huge mistake for Intel to abandon DDR2 when DDR3 is barely taking grasp. Price of DDR3 is terribly high and no 4GB (2x2GB) kits that are any good are available yet...Also DDR3 has no advantage over DDR2 besides more bandwidth which makes no difference whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by NeedMoMegaHurtZ

So basically keep P35 since X38 & X48 are busted?

What/When is the next one? Eaglelake?

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X38 & X48 not busted, those bugs are minor...

Something a future bios update will sort out I think.

lol they don't abondon ddr2, it's just for the super-mega-high-end which x48 is!

Do people even know what S3 is...for a laptop this would be a big (yet still small) impact.

S3 is a deep SLEEP state for the entire PC. Aka not running.

So basicly a 3% chance that happens and the PCIe is trained at a lower speed.

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S3 is called Standby in Windows, Sleep in Mac OS X, and sometimes also Suspend to RAM (STR), although the ACPI specification mentions only the terms S3 and Sleep. In this state, main memory (RAM) is still powered, although it is almost the only component that is. Since the state of the operating system and all applications, open documents, etc. lies all in main memory, the user can resume work exactly where he/she left off—the main memory content when the computer comes back from S3 is the same as when it was put into S3.

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This "X38 bug" is only minor fault in very rare using ...
X48 is handpicked X38 ... this information is clear many weeks ...

The price point x48 based boards are most likely to be at DDR3 only capability is likely to be a non-issue for the prospective buyer.

Btw, X38 supports 1600MHz FSB already ;)

And I must've missed something but I thought this was already reported a while back?

//Andreas

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Originally Posted by NH|Delph1

Btw, X38 supports 1600MHz FSB already ;)

And I must've missed something but I thought this was already reported a while back?

//Andreas

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i dont see a problem for normal pc here, i never use s3 state for my pc, its either off (really of with the switsch turned of at the socket) or its running. :p

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Originally Posted by NH|Delph1

Btw, X38 supports 1600MHz FSB already ;)

And I must've missed something but I thought this was already reported a while back?

//Andreas

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IT only supports it using 2 DIMMs, maybe? S3-resume bug is triggered more commonly(9 of 15 times) with higher FSB speeds, and hence the binning, as a regular X38 will have major issues with 400FSB?? Remember, if we are hearing about the bug, it's obviously an issue being talked abut in a large way, IMHO. They have not been able to hide this one, and sry, but my PC sleeps ALOT.


:shrug:

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

IT only supports it using 2 DIMMs, maybe? S3-resume bug is triggered more commonly(9 of 15 times) with higher FSB speeds, and hence the binning, as a regular X38 will have major issues with 400FSB?? Remember, if we are hearing about the bug, it's obviously an issue being talked abut in a large way, IMHO. They have not been able to hide this one, and sry, but my PC sleeps ALOT.


:shrug:

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So you always use the standby on your PC?

The bug is a default bug so to say, 3% chance or once a month.

Also the speed impact might be quite very low depending on system. And seems to be an ACPI bug with fixable via BIOS.

We hear about hyped bugs all the time. Its just a matter of determine of the bug is a really a problem or more a tabloid story.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

and sry, but my PC sleeps ALOT. :shrug:

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what? you arent crunching? :eek: gotcha! :D

They left out the interesting one:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5128/x48fj5.jpg

http://hkepc.com/?id=220

X38 supports 1600mhz FSB also.

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Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

X38 supports 1600mhz FSB also.

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my 975X mobo also does :D (hm .. OCed ) j/k :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

X38 supports 1600mhz FSB also.

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I'd hope so. Asus is showing it on the asus maximus formula. Make that all there ddr2 x38 boards.

http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?m...11&l3=572&l4=0

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Originally Posted by Shintai

The bug is a default bug so to say, 3% chance or once a month.

Also the speed impact might be quite very low depending on system. And seems to be an ACPI bug with fixable via BIOS.

We hear about hyped bugs all the time. Its just a matter of determine of the bug is a really a problem or more a tabloid story.

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whole heartedly agree with your observation...really a non-issue...appears to be bios fixable.:)

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Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

X38 supports 1600mhz FSB also.

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Intel does not support 1600mhz on the x38, the mobo makers are free to do as they please as long as they can honestly state that all the boards they sell will run that speed out of the box 24/7. Intel can't make that same claim as they are not responsible for each and every board/bios design.

x48 - $70
x38 - $50

Almost the price of entry-level motherboard

I'm just happy I picked up a P35 board instead of waiting for X38. Seems like there were no need to do so either as I haven't seen anything spectacular about them yet. :shrug:

the X38 appears to be better performance with DDR3 but you are going to get a lower FSB overclock compared to the P35 boards.

when i went from the Abit QuadGT board over to Abit's IP35 Pro, the performance was just on par although i was not getting over 390 FSB at 9x on a Q6600 B3 cpu with the QuadGT...the Pro board allowed me 450 FSB with the same cpu but it was no faster than the QuadGT!

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Originally Posted by Aerosupra

what? you arent crunching? :eek: gotcha! :D

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LoL...yes, i crunch, and, actually, the sleeping issue, kinda useless...but the warm reboot side of it is not. Nevermind ONE DIMM ONLY FOR XMP!!!!!:ROTF: Intel screwed up big time on this chipset. I ain't buying nodda whether it's called X38/X48 I don't care!:rofl:




:yepp:

They're just not going to spec X48 to run 4-DIMMs at 1600MHz. I don't doubt it WILL do it in our hands with any decent board design, but it's just not a spec.

And when they say one DIMM, it means one DIMM per channel.

@ 1.8v.

I know it could mean good as well, if they "official spec" it, each chip should be able to do it, but compounded by the binning of the chipset for this function in the first place, as well as the additional voltage requirement(.3v over stock), as said before it is looking towards not scaling as well as say, P35.

We could also say that it's possible that part of the reason for the lower FSB speeds than P35 is because of tighter timings, which, given the added performance, seems a bit realistic, however that then brings to mind the idea thta X38 is nothing more than 975x with added functionality and nothing more.

But it does scale quads pretty good too, so...


It's a mixed bag, for sure, but given the performance and huge increases that intel has been offering over the last 18 months, it seems a bit of a let-down that it doesn't really add much to what's already out there. Chipset's fine and dandy, but I know that myself and many others would like to see intel really increase the FSB of thier cpu products, as it comes as such a benefit when running quads on FSB...

And yet again, only 1600mhz ram speed?:stick: one Dimm per channel, @ .3v increase? that's lame. Ram manufacturer's starting to sell higher than 1600mhz DIMMS, with no board support...:shakes:

I don't care, because by the time DDR3 is "mainstream" enough and cheap enough to buy (like current DDR2 being $75CAD for 2x1GB) which will probably be another year+ away... The next chipset will be out. I think I will skip X48 all together. I may upgrade my P35 to X38 however. Just for the increase bandwidth on the PCI-E lanes for crossfire. My PC never sleeps. heh

you can only get 1600mhz with one dimm? am i reading that last table right?

Per channel, yes, and needs 1.8v over 1.5v stock.

Wow, more wrong on wrong.

X38 does support 1600FSB now, my boards fire up on that strap and I can run 4 banks filled @ 1600Mhz tight timing, in fact I am running at 466FSB 1933Mhz stock voltage on the NB and 2v on the memory.

Clarification is always better than guesses :p:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Wow, more wrong on wrong.

X38 does support 1600FSB now, my boards fire up on that strap and I can run 4 banks filled @ 1600Mhz tight timing, in fact I am running at 466FSB 1933Mhz stock voltage on the NB and 2v on the memory.

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Hi Fugger, have you done any long-term video renders with that box? I am having issues, as are others, with long-term stability using all banks populated.

What chipset voltage are you using? nV cards, I assume?

I'm sorry for supposedly implying something that may not seem truthful, however I was given "chipset bug on warm boot" that leads to this issue. Running 4 sticks of D9's @ 1200/2.4v is unstable. reboot by system leads to a weird boot...system seems like it's only half there...you know...you click...and there's a delay...shut down and restart fixes issue.

There must be some initialization or something that isn't happening on warm reboots. It FEELS like the P965 pci-e bug, but that didn't affect stabilty as much as this bug seems to.

Hopefully i can get to the system today and I'll try to get some screens of what happens, but screens don't capture slow system response.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

Per channel, yes, and needs 1.8v over 1.5v stock.

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All the DDR3 1600 or faster ram I've seen for sale so far carries a voltage spec of 1.8 or higher, so this doesn't seem like a chipset problem.

"X48 VCCM @ 1.8v" says differently. Also note that I had made mention of this problem long before the above info was posted, so I'm not getting this from some rumour or website...systems I've built with this chipset are having these issues. I hope a bios fixes it, but i think it's not quite that simple, myself.

FLG,

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=11

Resolved with bios, yes there was an instability problem at first.

No one can test the 1600FSB stap yet so the jury is still out, but the boards I have tested there is not a problem with that strap and no voltage increase is needed till 475+ provided the ram can do that speed. Drop in low in modules and forget about the 1600+ Mhz.

The PCIE problem is not something I am chasing or tested, high speed ram stability with all four slots filled I am.

Believe me or not, I been there to test first hand.

If you say it's fixed, then I guess it will filter through to other boards hopefully sooner rather than later. I assumed that the two were related...

If you match my known good config, I can assure you success. That was the intention of my post.

I have about 400+ hours on many X38 boards (over 3 months continuous) resolving many DX38BT issues that Intel missed. My bad for not including you in our notes.

I would not attempt an OC demo (onstage live for Intel in front of thousands of people) with an unstable machine or one with any outstanding issues. I know this combo is up to snuff. I am not into committing suicide.

Hi fugger...personally, I don't tihnk you are at fault here...obviously there are some isues still around, probably on boards that you aren't using, or fixes haven't been implemented yet...some people have issues getting just 4 sticks stable, nevermind @ high speeds.

It's not fair to take it out on you, however you also shouldn't take it personally. Your capabilities are not something I myself question...but I know you can either pick up a phone or send an email, and it gets to who really needs to hear it.

Had i seen your post with the P5E bios, I wouldn't have posted on this issue period, but I am sitll having issues getting X38 stable, and same issue across different boards from different OEMs. So it's either a bios teething issue, or a chipset issue...and given the info provided on "X48", it really seems hard to beleive it to be bios alone.

So yeah, you got a bios, but does it fix it, or is it a workaround? And as such, are we gonna see it on these other obards, or is that up to the OEMs themselves?

I saw the stage demos...most of those benches wouldn't even run if system wasn't close to fully stable, so well done, I suppose, records fell... but we'd all like a crack at it too, ya know?:lol2:

I have a definitive answer to why P5E3 boards did not run four sticks stable, this was resolved in bios and I feel confident the problem was addressed and fixed for Asus.

The 0503 bios was specific to resolve this problem.

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I'm dealing with this exact same thing on Nehalem.

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I will shoot of an Email to K7, my testing may be beneficial to your group after all.

Match my combo and enjoy.

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Originally Posted by FLG_Poncho

/sigh.... the few boards and the minuscule work (by comparison) that you have done with these systems doesn't compare to the thousands of boards/parts that Intel goes through, not to mention OEMs, during the design and validation phase. But hey.... if you assure us that it'll work on EVERY board in existence, the that's good enough for me. :rolleyes:

Oh... and just a bit of perspective here. I know of one OEM that is willing to hold off a product launch because of an issue that happens once out of 3000 reboots. THAT'S the kind of standard that Intel must validate to, and if they can't, and it's because of a feature, then they simply won't support it.

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/nod

Intel does not officially support DDR3-1600 as part of the full spec on the the X38, that is completely left up to the OEM/mobo makers to support. Intel although can support DDR3-1600 on the Bone Trail boards because they do not represent the entire production run of all X38 chipsets that will make it into consumers hands.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

"X48 VCCM @ 1.8v" says differently. Also note that I had made mention of this problem long before the above info was posted, so I'm not getting this from some rumour or website...systems I've built with this chipset are having these issues. I hope a bios fixes it, but i think it's not quite that simple, myself.

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That's cool, I don't doubt the existence of the issues you've seen. I was only making an observation on the memory voltage spec. That is, the fact that Intel's specs for the X48 call for 1.8v for memory running at DDR3 1600 seems OK to me since that's what the memory manufacturers are recommending anyway. But, I'm probably not following your point. :am:

Aivas47a, vccsm is Voltage Current Control Supply Minimum, not VDIMM. First board I can think of that had this user-adjustable was a ULi chipset...

Anyway, this helps ensure proper current to DIMMS for high-speed clocks, not voltage. I could explain more, but I don't tihnk it's needed, other than to say that the "M" in VCCSM is "minimum". Just seems to me the hold-up time is too long @ high speeds for going back down to 1.5v, and hence the increase. The same problem could potentially affect greater # of DIMMs, and the current requirement on the circuit would be higher, and maybe VCCM is too low for multi-DIMMs as well.


At least that's what I thought...fixable in bios, maybe, maybe not, but Fugger says it is, so I trust his word.