Xtreme Xterior Cooler

Check out this rig I built today. Fall is here in Northern Virginia and I have been waiting for this moment. With 10C ambients just outside the window it only made sense to mount the rad where it would do the job the best: outside the house :)

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

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The first couple of times I fired up the pumps I got a quick jab of PSI on the gauge then nada. I kept diddling and filling until I got a solid 2.5 psi then fired up Black Knight and popped into BIOS ASAP. After boot PC Probe registered 19C (it is about 10C lower than Core Temp which won;t work in Vista 64bit))

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Using a 110VAC CCL UV lamp for leak testing. That was not a leak but a little spill when connecting the line to the Window Box. I used 1/2" barb to 3/4" hose ends (solid brass) and they are very handy if you need to part lines or whatever.

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Wish I could find a 0-5 PSI gauge...or even 0-10. But at
least I can tell in a heartbeat if there is an issue with the loop. At about $12 this is cheap insurance.

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It's a very simple yet weatherprof set up. The aluminum seals the gap at the window and locks onto the lip and supports the unit at a nice angle when clamped to the sill by the window. I cut a stick to wedge the window tightly against the unit and locked that into position inside the house--this would also prevent anyone from breaking in.

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The camera does not do it justice--but the UV lamp makes the "Rams Horn" tubing glow brilliantly outside :p

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The db-1 pumps are supported by the tubing and grommets in the acrylic. I use stainless steel pinchclamps so it is very very secure and no chance of leaks.
I used 3 pin to molex adapters and taped them completely in 3M electrical tape to prevent any corrosion and routed a custom made female to female molex through split loom to the Silverstone DA 750 where it plugs directly to the PSU with a shemale molex.o..O

Db-1 pumps are 100% waterproof...you could run them submerged. The rad is copper and brass and painted in black oxide so no corrosion issue there and the Panaflo 86.5 CFM fan is completely under the acrylic shield and pushes air through the rad--so no chance of sucking rain into the fan. I love OUTDOOR COMPUTING!

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I used a T-line and made sure it was long enough to be a lot higher than the highest point of the loop (the waterblock). The loop is filled with Dasani purified water and about 1/2 oz of tracerline Clear UV Blue. Filling was very safe and easy... I held the filport over a bowl in case of drips or burps and found that I could run the pumps with the filport open--which really aided bleeding the loop.

A single db-1 might have been up to the task--but due the length of the lines I wanted to use (in case I choose to relocate the PC) and the restrictive nature of the Stinger waterblock I chose two. I am very happy with the results.

The ambient continues to drop: now at 11.7C PC Probe shows 34C. Earlier today using the Monolith cooler with 21C ambient I was getting 54C load temps.

Those sorts of intake temps are usually found in a AC unit/rad rigs or perhaps in a chilled water loop. I have gained over 20C in headroom--which means I can crank the volts and see if I can get this rig to run a bit faster. :cool:

If you are lucky enough to be living in an area with low ambients like this you should definitely give it a try.

BTW my Wife LOVES this invention. She puts up with my Farm in the music room...but I know the noise of the Iwaki and 6 Panaflos does get on her nerves at times. This rig will allow you to run a virtually silent PC.

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I like it, the Enviros should too. Using the natural resources without concenquence.

It's been in the 80's until yesterday. Looks like it will stay reasonably cool until next year..so I thought WTH.

looks really nice

Hawt.

Now I want to put one in every window of the house and run them all in series :ROTF:

Great. You may want to incorporate somewhat better shelter. The snow drifts can get obnoxious and it doesn't just fall vertically lol

lol..How about making it even more obnoxious;
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=4784

:D

True. It's a rapid prototype. Ideally Iwould like to make it from polycarbonate and skip the aluminum...this kind of Home Depot angle gets grotty after a while.

I think I might take the huge Iwaki driven cooler apart and mount all that stuff outside the window too...it would probably work better.

Oddly enough the Wife does not mind odd looking PC cooling apparatus hanging outside the house...I guess anything is better than listening to the Iwaki 24/7 :)

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Canadmos

lol..How about making it even more obnoxious;
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=4784

:D

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Maybe something more like a garden sculpture:rofl: Perhaps a cooling gnome:p:

hell i ran across a post somewhere where a guy used his swimming pool as a res and just used it's evaporative cooling power for 3 crunchers

Will this setup create some condensation problems when the temperature dips a bit further?

If I lived in your area, I'd sneak into your yard and caress the PA160 every night.

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Originally Posted by Grafton

hell i ran across a post somewhere where a guy used his swimming pool as a res and just used it's evaporative cooling power for 3 crunchers

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Bong Coolers...Those are definitely better out than in...nothing worse than spilled bong water :p:

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Originally Posted by Canadmos

Will this setup create some condensation problems when the temperature dips a bit further?

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I doubt it. In the Winter the house is very dry. Right now ambient is 10C...no probs so far.

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Originally Posted by YugenM

If I lived in your area, I'd sneak into your yard and caress the PA160 every night.

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Last year I had 7 rigs on the porch crunching away all winter...destroyed 3 motherboards and two CPUs from corrosion. One of the benefits of living at the top of a mountain at the end of a long gravel road...no unannounced visitors...lol

But that was before Quad! No way am I putting my Quads outside :shakes:

Nor my HD 2900 XTs:shocked:

cooling gnome ftw! i love the idea :rofl: :clap:

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Originally Posted by The[R]eaper

cooling gnome ftw! i love the idea :rofl: :clap:

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Or one of those ornamental Japanese style Spirit Houses...hmmmm

Outdoor Computing...why not;)

Love the idea, I may make an improved version of this design for my first watercooling rig :D Just in time for winter, I wouldn't even need a fan on the rad xD

Better build a scarecrow on it b4 it gets covered with bird droppings, lol...

Very green and very cool though.

If I see a shower of feathers I'll know the Panaflo just got another one :p:

That booger whacked me pretty good last night when I was trying to adjust something..drew blood lol.

I could mount a UV light on and use it to control skeeters :ROTF:

I love it - awesome work!

10C ambient all night...gotta love that.

I already have a much cleaner design in mind..lower profile...less materials...

I still have three unused windows beside me :p:

I just realized this is the first installation of Windows that didn't try to update itself 6 times in one day :)

I can get you a 0-10 PSI presure gauge but due to them being lowe presure reading there really costly which sucks!

0-15PSI works fine i found, mines only a 40mm OD as well

Looking Great Cyber! Lov'in the thinking OUTSIDE the BoX!

the people living next door must think your cooling meth

still really cool (bad pun) I should do that, where ambients temps are 0F

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Originally Posted by Pete

I can get you a 0-10 PSI presure gauge but due to them being lowe presure reading there really costly which sucks!

0-15PSI works fine i found, mines only a 40mm OD as well

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Thanks for the offer! I imagine anything out of the mass produced norm would be high. Probably better places to spend that money like more aluminum and acrylic...

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Originally Posted by XS_RoB

Looking Great Cyber! Lov'in the thinking OUTSIDE the BoX!

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Ha Well thanks...:up:

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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch

CD
only need to grease the cpu socket for extra caution

No worry for condensation for -13c outside, ambiant 22c , my temps in canadian winter with rad only no fan with case fans keeps sweat to min, CD the shroud should be chalked an rad lowerd off the alu frame so the rejected heat can be exhausted proper...not recycled from plexiglas/alu frame. great handy work CD, i hope looking at picture of rad (front side)the left is the return and the right is input ;)

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Yes indeed...I can bet a Canadian winter would almost be phase :p:

Yep the orientation of the pumps etc are all correct. I don't think there's much recycling going on...the air stream is pretty powerful...the Panaflo is running full tilt...but the next revision will enclooe everything a bit more and make it a better "package" to keep insects and other nuisances for infesting and otherwise dirupting the operation of the apparatus.

For one I think I will stealth the tubbng so it isn't such an obvious "rig" and looks more like a litlte AC unit..stress on little..I don't want to hang twenty pounds of cooler off the window.

Thanks for the advice :)

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Originally Posted by The_Beast

the people living next door must think your cooling meth

still really cool (bad pun) I should do that, where ambients temps are 0F

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Where I live it would not be an odd thing to be thinking...high power consumption...bright lights in varrious outbuildings at all hours of the night...

We get a lot of helicopters patrolling these wooded undeveloped areas looking for the activites typical of rural Americe :p: reefer plantaitions. stills, meth labs...

Ah, I love winter. Makes the heat produced from F@H not that noticable! :up:

Agreed!

How cold would it have to be before condensations begins to be a problem? sub 0 degrees?

I have the posibility of doing about the same, but here in Denmark winter tends to be pretty cold.. (well not canada like.. but still :-) )

All you need to do is pack the socket with dielectric grease and line the tubes in and out of the case with foam sleeve. Piece of cake. Considering the benefits I hardly see condensation as a factor to hold you back.

What percentage of glycol will you have to run and what performance hit will it create?

That's a good question. Right now I have added about 2 0Z on Pentosin to 1 quart of water. It rarely dips into subfreezing here in the Winter...and I run the rig 24/7 (currently running BOINC :)) so I doubt it would slush up on me...

Thanks for reminding me...sometimes I overlook the simple stuff...lol.

I just checked the Pentosin bottle and it appears that I have used less than 1/4 of a 4 OZ bottle...so it's probably more like Sherlock Holmes would prefer: 7% :p:

You know, the ultimate solution would be some type of earth radiator buried about 10' - 20' underground. At that depth, the surrounding earth temperature = the average annual air temperature - about 50 degrees F for a temperate zone. The temperature is constant from season to season. You would have to design some type of system to conduct (not radiate) the heat to the surrounding earth without corroding. A cement tank might be a good option to circulate coolant through if you can figure out how to prevent cracks.

It would definitely be going to an extreme length to cool a PC but it would be killer! The heat capacity of the surrounding earth is infinite for all practical purposes. You could cool ANY system that way, silently.

your talking about something along the lines of a septic tank there real genius plus your trying to remove heat the trick is to use something that wont degrade like plastic. something along the lines of what they use for raidant heat. do note if you did that you would need something like a 1/2 hp circulator pump. that alone requires a transformer though im not too sure on that.

Awesome idea man!

It has been done and you don't need to go down anything like 20'.

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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch

yip its called Geo-cooling just below frostline is enough

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Thanks for the link. That notion had crossed my mind in the past. I might still get around to trying that out one day. I was thinking about using a pony keg...but an oxygen bottle looks to be a good size.

The best vessel would be an aluminum scuba tank. The oxygen bottle is probably steel - a poor choice. Steel cylinders have thinner walls than aluminum and are very susceptible to corrosion. A typical 80CF @ 3000 PSI scuba cylinder will have a wall thickness of of something like 3/8" and are very corrosion resistant. Furthermore, aluminum oxide actually inhibits further corrosion while rust on on teel tank begats more rust. It's best to use a bare cylinder. All paint does is trap moisture underneath - encouraging corrosion.

I''ve worked full-time in the recreational dive industry for 12 years by the way and I can't BELIEVE I didn't think of using a scuba tank!

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Originally Posted by Real Genius

The best vessel would be an aluminum scuba tank. The oxygen bottle is probably steel - a poor choice. Steel cylinders have thinner walls than aluminum and are very susceptible to corrosion. A typical 80CF @ 3000 PSI scuba cylinder will have a wall thickness of of something like 3/8" and are very corrosion resistant. Furthermore, aluminum oxide actually inhibits further corrosion while rust on on teel tank begats more rust. It's best to use a bare cylinder. All paint does is trap moisture underneath - encouraging corrosion.

I''ve worked full-time in the recreational dive industry for 12 years by the way and I can't BELIEVE I didn't think of using a scuba tank!

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Mixed metals is not a good thing. :shakes:

Stainless Steel is not used in pressure vessels because it's not strong enough. It's corrosion resistance is also over-stated.

SIGFever, as I pointed out in another thread, two conditions have to be met for galvanic corrosion to occur:

1. Two or more dissimilar metals must be submerged in the same electrolytic fluid and,

2. The metals must be electrically connected.

The tank would be at earth-ground potential, obviously. I haven't built a water cooling system yet but I don't see why the copper blocks would be connected to anything. They're mounted to non-conductive chip housings, right? I notice there is usually a screwed-down clamp over the block. If the screws contact the case or the pcb ground plane anywhere, the clamp should be insulated from the block.

You CAN have aluminum and copper in the same loop as long as they are not electrically connected to each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Real Genius

Stainless Steel is not used in pressure vessels because it's not strong enough. It's corrosion resistance is also over-stated.

SIGFever, as I pointed out in another thread, two conditions have to be met for galvanic corrosion to occur:

1. Two or more dissimilar metals must be submerged in the same electrolytic fluid and,

2. The metals must be electrically connected.

The tank would be at earth-ground potential, obviously. I haven't built a water cooling system yet but I don't see why the copper blocks would be connected to anything. They're mounted to non-conductive chip housings, right? I notice there is usually a screwed-down clamp over the block. If the screws contact the case or the pcb ground plane anywhere, the clamp should be insulated from the block.

You CAN have aluminum and copper in the same loop as long as they are not electrically connected to each other.

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Galvanic reactions or electrolysis as I know it from the yachting industry are present any time two dis-similar metal are in electrical contact. In the case of a PC cooling loop that would be the fluid--which is usually conductive to some degree.

Although mixed metals can be prevented from reacting by using chemicals in the cooling loop there is still a slight chance of corrosion from any air that might be in the loop too.

I too have used mixed metals in loops and have an extant example of this in service. After 2 years I see no sign of corrosion..but I also used a 25% mixture of Zerex with the distilled.

For those of us looking for maximum efficacy from the medium the use of chemicals is a no no as anything added to the distilled will reduce it's ability to transfer heat.

I like the idea of a large copper tube sunk into the earth--but not sure how it holds up to the acids present in most soil.

Interesting stuff...

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Galvanic reactions or electrolysis as I know it from the yachting industry are present any time two dis-similar metal are in electrical contact. In the case of a PC cooling loop that would be the fluid--which is usually conductive to some degree.

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Yeah, I'm a dive boat captain so I'm well familiar with it too. I don't think the fluid can be the connector AND the electrolyte. You need a complete circuit. Current will flow from the cathode to the anode (aluminum to copper in this case) through the fluid and return via the electrical connection. The electrical connection is usually physical contact between the two metals such as when a bronze prop is mounted to a steel shaft. I suspect a lot of pc cooling installations inadvertently ground the physically-separated metals like the blocks and radiators when it could be easily prevented. If they are both grounded, we have a return path and electrolysis can occur.

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Originally Posted by Real Genius

Yeah, I'm a dive boat captain so I'm well familiar with it too. I don't think the fluid can be the connector AND the electrolyte. You need a complete circuit. Current will flow from the cathode to the anode (aluminum to copper in this case) through the fluid and return via the electrical connection. The electrical connection is usually physical contact between the two metals such as when a bronze prop is mounted to a steel shaft. I suspect a lot of pc cooling installations inadvertently ground the physically-separated metals like the blocks and radiators when it could be easily prevented. If they are both grounded, we have a return path and electrolysis can occur.

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Not to argue but the field given off by most yachts even at anchor is strong enough to corrode the zincs on boats up to 150 yards away. This is a fact. The salt in the water makes it highly conductive--and the EM fields thrown off by charging equipment and the general wiring of the boat (as everything is bonded) is very powerful. That is why keeping the sacrificial zincs up to snuff is so critical--especially in harbor or when docked for long periods.

An improperly bonded or wired vessel can rapidly corrode the zincs on surrounding boats and lead to damage unless the situation is noted and remedied.

In a PC loop it is not exactly the same deal..but indeed the water acts as the electrolyte in that it makes the transfer of ions possible due to it's conductivity...this effect is independent of pump action or any other EM effect from the PC. It's like a battery.

Any easy proof. Dip a chunk of aluminum and a chunk of copper in some water and make sure they do not touch and take a voltage reading. To really make the point thow in a pich of table salt. :)

nice, but living in NOVA as well it hasn't been that cool lately

My ambient tonight is 18.6C outside and 25.2C inside...that's 6.6C lower than I might other wise be getting :D

But yeah it has been annoyingly UN Fall-like--and today got up in the high 70F range which is NOT what I want right now...:p:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

Not to argue but the field given off by most yachts even at anchor is strong enough to corrode the zincs on boats up to 150 yards away. This is a fact. The salt in the water makes it highly conductive--and the EM fields thrown off by charging equipment and the general wiring of the boat (as everything is bonded) is very powerful. That is why keeping the sacrificial zincs up to snuff is so critical--especially in harbor or when docked for long periods.

An improperly bonded or wired vessel can rapidly corrode the zincs on surrounding boats and lead to damage unless the situation is noted and remedied.

In a PC loop it is not exactly the same deal..but indeed the water acts as the electrolyte in that it makes the transfer of ions possible due to it's conductivity...this effect is independent of pump action or any other EM effect from the PC. It's like a battery.

Any easy proof. Dip a chunk of aluminum and a chunk of copper in some water and make sure they do not touch and take a voltage reading. To really make the point thow in a pich of table salt. :)

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Google, "galvanic corrosion" and you'll get a plethora of artlicles telling you the same thing: There has to be an electrical connection between the two metals in question. You'll have that in your anchored yachts if they are both using all-chain rodes - they are both close to ground potential. It's certainly true in separated boats both plugged into shore power. Plus, the huge surface area of an aluminum-hulled boat is going to generate a large concentrated current on a tiny zinc 150 yards away - IF they are at the same electrical potential or anywhere close to it.

You are correct when you say that there is a voltage potential between un-bonded pieces of aluminum and copper in a glass of water but that doesn't result in any corrosion. You need a current flow between them for that. There is NO current flow between the two because it is an open circuit. You have to connect the two to get current flow. It doesn't have to be a perfect connection but the more resistance (ohms), the less the flow. Two pieces of metal which are in total isolation from each other CANNOT interact galvanically.

Is it possible to electrically isolate a copper block from an aluminum radiator (resistance beyond the range of a good digital multimeter)? As I said earlier, I haven't built a water-cooled rig yet but I don't see any reason why you cant.

To steer more directly to what is going on in a PC cooling loop:

It is not glavanic corrosion but the subtle process of electrolysis that pits the aluminum and sludges the brass and copper. The electrical impulse is generated by the disimilar metals difference in ionic potential just like a battery--because of the neutral ph of the water the current is minute...but over time it will pull pieces of aluminum toward the brass.

To veer back to the similar issue at play with yachts:

Salt water forms the electrical connection between the disimilar metals and the effect is much more pronounced. If you put a piece of copper and a piece of zinc in a glass of salt water where they do not touch the zinc will eventually dissolve and copper will form a residue. If you add voltage the effect is rapid.

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Salt water forms the electrical connection between the disimilar metals and the effect is much more pronounced. If you put a piece of copper and a piece of zinc in a glass of salt water where they do not touch the zinc will eventually dissolve and copper will form a residue.

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Do you have a link to a study which confirms this? I'd be interested as I will be using an aluminum radiator with copper blocks in the system I will be building.

I will see what I can dig up for you. My knowledge of the yachting end of this is first hand. I have spent about 18 years beating the docks and have read many articles on the subject.

I simply applied that to what I see first hand happening to stuff in my loop.

The very first LCS I concocted used a Rev. 1 Storm and an aluminum universal transmission cooler from NAPA. I went heavy on the Zerex and still years later the block and cooler are in perfect condition. The Tygon is still supple

I buy a lot of used stuff and I have found that alumunum watercooling parts are absolute junk. I have thrown away quite a few GFX card waterblocks that were part of bundles of LC gear I was getting because they were riddled with corrosion and no longer trustworthy due to the porosity of the metal.

A recent example of something you might not expect but that does happen.

Despite using Primochill PC Ice non conductive coolant I still found a greenish accumulation on a Danger Den aluminum filport I was using...the effect might have been attributable to condensation but it was starting to effect the nickle-plated barb/aluminum body connection. Having a number of rigs with the same type Filport I started making sure they wer topped off...this elimnated the problem. But is still stood out to me that reactive metals in a loop are not a good thing.

I'll see what I can find for you on the subject.

I no longer will purchase anything aluminum to use in a PC, despite having my first LC rig operating troublefree all this time. Gotta love that AquaXtreme 50Z DC-12...what a great pump.

This pretty much some up what I just said. But now feel very ignorant because it's Improper to call the process elctrolysis. What can I say...that's what they call it on the docks:D

http://www.ocean.udel.edu/seagrant/p...corrosion.html

How is this performing now? :D

:D

Loving this cold night. Currently -1.1C intake temp yielding 8 8 7 7 C in Core temp at idle running 3600. Under 100 sustained load I am seeing 20 19 17 18 C ...gotta love that with an overvolted Q6600.

Spent some time today reseating the block and got a drastic improvement that leveled off my core temp differences from 14C different to 1-2C different.

The stiff poly braid tubing had been fighting me on the last seat and I could see the patch of Shin Etsu was off center.

So as far as the questions about condensation I am seeing nothing, it's very dry though. 32% Humidity outside and even less inside. The bay res is nice and cool...

So far this has been the most cost effective Extreme cooling I have come up with.

how bout wet and damp outside? isnt rain gonna be troublesome? since ur fan circuit is exposed? not to mention acid rains ...

Nope. As you can see it is uder a plexi shield. The connections are all taped with high quality thin 3M electrical tape to seal out any moisture. The pumps are waterproof and the fan is disposable IMO...a $9 Panaflo. I have a feeling once it gets steady cold like this the fan is unnecessary anyway.

Brass holds up well to the environment...so even if the paint is not enough protection the PA 160 should be fine.

This set up is far less abusive to hardware than what I did last year :D Put the Farm out on the porch all Winter...there were times when I had drifts up against the cases...but they continued to Fold!

This will only work well during the winter obviously :D

I run about 20C above intake temp--just wish my loop were more efficient.Next version will be MCP655 and FuZion...

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:D

BAH! If that's all the snow you got, that's pathetic. :p:

I've already had 3x's that where I live and winter hasn't even settled in yet. :rolleyes: :ROTF:

Looking good though. :up: Looks like it's doing what it's supposed to, you are going to brush that off if it gets to be too much though, right?

temps now with that snowfall????

wish i could do that coldest here where i live is like 12°c