Preparing Insulation for Asus Commando / Kayl Black FrozenSS

Yes I've gotten off my lazy butt... well partially off anyway :stick:

Time to dust off my Kayl Black FrozenSS 1/4HP phase change unit for some sub zero action. It's a real winter this year so hopefully lower room ambients with lower humidity and dew point temps will keep condensation to a minimum :)

Asus Commando getting treated:

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_02.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_05.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_11.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_14.JPG

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_15.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_17.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_20.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_25.JPG

This time decided against using red Liquid Electrical tape as it's too messy to clean up for when i revert to water cooling.

Instead I've gone for a different approach:

1. First, 3 layer coating of Electrolube Clear Protective Lacquer (CPL) (rated for -50C) on backside of motherboard and front (taped off the dimm slots, PCI/PCI-E slots, cpu socket and IDE/FDD connectors).
2. Then using clear nail polish for around cpu socket area sealing off under the cpu socket and caps and up to first dimm slot.
3. Instead of Liquid Electrical tape, using 3M Scotch Super 88 Vinyl tape for the initial covering layer of the board. Should be much easier to remove afterwards right ???? Or would heat from components eventual cause the Vinyl tape to melt and become sticky and thus hard to remove ??? The 3M Scotch Super 88 Vinyl tape is rated for -18C to 105C.

Now here's where I'm stuck, trying to cut out a perfect closed cell foam piece to fit over the top of the Vinyl tape. I've only done this twice before for AMD64 DFI NF4 board and for Asus P5W DH and both times the foam piece didn't fit as well as I hoped for.

Then I'm going to cake the entire cpu socket in dielectric grease this time. Learnt my lesson from last time :)

I'm thinking of further closing off the top closed cell foam piece with another layer of 3M Scotch Super 88 Vinyl tape and to seal around the evap foam with the tape as well.

Questions:

1. So guys any tips on how to carve out a perfect fitting piece of closed cell foam for the layer on top of the Vinyl tape ??
2. Is the Vinyl tape approach alright ? Is covering the cpu socket are components in Vinyl tape going to okay ?? Or am I trapping alot of heat there ?

like the vinyle tape job.
TO cut the foam i have a vapour chill stencil photo copy.
Use that as original paper stencile and make new paper stenciles till its perfect.

ALso some seal string on some spots of the metal socket helps as well ;)


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7735/onps3.th.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3...ion1id2.th.jpg

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/364...ion2dw2.th.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6...8327mt6.th.jpg


http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3...ringph6.th.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4...8353ec4.th.jpg

You are going waay overboard with this lol.

I would remove the tape past the inductors. In fact, I only insulate up to the inductors and then stop there. That part of the board ends up roasting under heavy load. That's what makes it easy...a simple rectangular gasket that just fits within the inductors is sufficient.

Then I stick a second gasket on top the layer that's touching the board, exactly like Vince does in this pic. (He's using it for LN2, but the same approach works great for single stage)

Insulating a Commando takes only minutes. There's no grease or lacquer or anything along those lines necessary. All I use are two layers of neoprene, one touching the board, and one sitting on top of that covering the socket area. Never has let me down through numerous single stage, DI, and LN2 sessions.

Sorry but if you already laquered the fron of the motherbaord, it doesn't get any sense to put that vinil tape, anyway, that vinil tape under variation of temps (from cold to ambient) will loose it's properties and it doesn't seal anything imho.

To get a better molding, cut a piece of armaflex and pushin it gently over the motherboard, you will get a nice imprint of the components you need to trim in the armaflex.

thanks Kayl and Gautam...

Overkill ? I intend to run it for very long sessions and even though it's winter my room can get pretty humid at times >70% humidity with dew point around 18-20C. Or pealing off the tape past the inductors would be ideal ?

My evap head isn't sticking out too but flat http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=3077

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_006.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_013.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_014.jpg

Definitely remove it. When you're under load, the last thing you'll be worrying about is how cold that area is. Rather it'll get too hot. I leave it bare and have an 80mm fan pointing towards it. Covering that area up is rather dangerous IMHO.

Because the donut on your evap head is a little short, you should use an additional gasket like in that pic. The seal turns out perfect with absolutely no means of air to get in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eva2000

thanks Kayl and Gautam...

Overkill ? I intend to run it for very long sessions and even though it's winter my room can get pretty humid at times >70% humidity with dew point around 18-20C. Or pealing off the tape past the inductors would be ideal ?

My evap head isn't sticking out too but flat http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=3077

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_006.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_013.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...vapmod_014.jpg

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Mount a new donut that extrudes at least 5 or 10mm and you will get a lot better seal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ssilencer

Sorry but if you already laquered the fron of the motherbaord, it doesn't get any sense to put that vinil tape, anyway, that vinil tape under variation of temps (from cold to ambient) will loose it's properties and it doesn't seal anything imho.

To get a better molding, cut a piece of armaflex and pushin it gently over the motherboard, you will get a nice imprint of the components you need to trim in the armaflex.

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thanks for the tip... yeah i might have gone a bit overkill but better than under insulated i guess ??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gautam

Definitely remove it. When you're under load, the last thing you'll be worrying about is how cold that area is. Rather it'll get too hot. I leave it bare and have an 80mm fan pointing towards it. Covering that area up is rather dangerous IMHO.

Because the donut on your evap head is a little short, you should use an additional gasket like in that pic. The seal turns out perfect with absolutely no means of air to get in.

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thanks will be ripping off the tape around that area - totally forgot about placing a fan there thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ssilencer

Mount a new donut that extrudes at least 5 or 10mm and you will get a lot better seal.

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You mean like this below on my old P5W DH (was caked in red liquid electrical tape) ? it has a donut (pretty worn out now)

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl..._P5WDH_035.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl..._P5WDH_038.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl..._P5WDH_043.jpg

Thanks again for the help :)

Eva2000 if ya do the top layer of insulation the way i do mine it seals perfect.
6mm insulation + 3mm insulation works well. Currently my enclosure have 5mm shaved off to allow for the caps with enclosure insulation flush with evap, so yours will be fine the way it is now.
Back when we made your cooler the caps weren’t an issue on the AMD mobos. This is a pic I found which might help, if ya use that 6mm insulation from clark rubber, and that roll of sticky back tape as the top layer it seals perfect

http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpu1xh.jpg

What Gautam is saying is correct, the tape over hot components isn’t needed.
Eva2000 does have very humid weather where he is though and when he starts using his cooler it could run for 17days straight never turning the system off ;) so I see he wants to ensure mobo is safe insulation wise.

Thanks guys

As suggested by some folks over, I've pealed back the vinyl tape from the mosfets near the edge of the motherboard cpu socket area so they're no longer covered. Got as far as the top layer foam cut out. Guess wait till tomorrow for the rest :)

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ando_01_tn.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ando_02_tn.jpghttp://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ando_03_tn.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ando_04_tn.jpg

Will tape down the edges of the top layer properly later on.

Looks great :up:

looks good, dont for get to put some insulation in the metal clip at each end. Do you have any seal string, the very small gaps around the edge of the socket can be fill with this to ensure 100% sealed socket.

Now that looks good, I try to let the PWM area breath as even under load under a cascade I've had the mosfets get pretty warm. The one problem you might have is during the pulldown the evap will suck all the heat out of the board and with no components running you need to be quick and power on to put a load under the evap. With a SS this isn't much of a problem but anything colder and you have to keep that in mind.

looking good eva2000 :)

subscribed :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ssilencer

Looks great :up:

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thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kayl

looks good, dont for get to put some insulation in the metal clip at each end. Do you have any seal string, the very small gaps around the edge of the socket can be fill with this to ensure 100% sealed socket.

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i shoved some foam in side the gaps and sealed it off with vinyl tape LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Now that looks good, I try to let the PWM area breath as even under load under a cascade I've had the mosfets get pretty warm. The one problem you might have is during the pulldown the evap will suck all the heat out of the board and with no components running you need to be quick and power on to put a load under the evap. With a SS this isn't much of a problem but anything colder and you have to keep that in mind.

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thanks.. luckily my Kayl Black FrozenSS has no start up controller just plug into mains and flip the on switch so i can time when i start my pc and phase change unit :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by erwinz

looking good eva2000 :)

subscribed :D

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thanks :D

Well I did a dry test mount with dielectric grease covering the whole cpu socket to see how things are.

Not sure if the very top layer of Aerotape sticky back foam (see last 2 photos) is too tall for a flat evap head which doesn't stick out ?? Or should I just remove that very top layer of Aerotape sticky back foam and mount to the Vinyl tape layer as seen here.

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_01.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_04.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_07.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_08.JPG

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_09.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_12.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_15.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_16.JPG

Hum, hum :D

I see some nice preparing to good oc sesion Eva ;)

I be back to this topic :up:


Regards

Martin

Well guys booted her up but temps being reported are all over the place on Asus Commando..

First mount

E6700 L629B079

@stock speeds
Evap = -44.4C
Bios cpu temp = -39.5C

then after a reboot or two, bios and pc probe2 temp sensor stuck at 9C and doesn't move ? Coretemp stuck at 16C doesn't move... so what app to use to read negative temps on Asus Commando ? speedfan ?

Tried speedfan 4.32 and still shows core0/1 at 16C like coretemp but there's two temp values which show constant -48C ???

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com.../cpuz_idle.png

Also setfsb doesn't seem to want to work after a few failed setfsb FSB bumps in windows - now everytime i load setfsb it says 'startup failed' ?

You can't read subzero temps in windows usually. I would only go by evap.

The SetFSB I can't explain. It's never done that to me.

looking good eva , dos this tape mount works good ?
any frost or condens ?

thanks guys.. yeah the setfsb error is weird!

haven't checked for condensation under the evap.. but outside no condensation or frost :)

System

• E6700 L629B079 B2
• Kayl Black FrozenSS 1/4HP
• Asus Commando 1001 bios
• 128MB Gainward FX5200 PCI
• 2x1GB Team 6400C3 Micron D9GMH
• 160GB Seagate 7200.7 SATA
• Pioneer DVR-08 Burner
• Sony FDD
• 620W Corsair HX620 Modular PSU
• WinXP Pro SP2

I completed Super Pi 32M @4200Mhz - 10x420FSB 1:1 4-4-4-5 at 1.628v but when taking screenshot it rebooted! :mad:

So I bumped vcore to 1.688v (1.70 bios set) and now 32M is stable @4200Mhz but hitting a wall >4230Mhz at this vcore. I guess this E6700 L629B079 ain't that good as it only did Super Pi 32M max @3904Mhz at 1.672v on water cooling (Swiftech G4 Storm/Thermochill 120.3/MCP650).

@stock E6700 speeds
Evap idle = -44.4C
Bios cpu temp = -39.5C

@4200Mhz at 1.688v
Evap idle = -40.5C to -39.2C
Evap load = -37.8C to -36.5C
Bios cpu temp = stuck at 9C doesn't move

Untweaked 1:1 memory divider Super Pi 32M runs to see how stable the system is :)

@4200Mhz - 10x420FSB 1:1
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...s_pcprobe2.png

@4203Mhz - 9x467FSB 1:1
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...s_pcprobe2.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com..._validated.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...wprime_all.png

I had to boot in from 400FSB and used Systool to bump FSB up to 420-467FSB. SetFSB refused to load for me - giving me 'startup failed' messages everytime i tried to run SetFSB so sticking with Systool.

I tightened the evap bolts and much of made better contact with cpu E6700 as got -43C in bios at stock speeds and PC Probe2 now shows something other than 9C

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_01.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_02.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_03.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_04.JPG

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_05.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_06.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_07.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_08.JPG

Playing with naked Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 :)

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...2m00s672ms.png

did it the same way for my cascade cooling evap ;)
works good but little -points :
between the tape and the foam lay a layer off toillit papper (wc paper) , had little bit condens after benching cascade for 4 hours .l
bit of frost on the caps along the board but it works and its very clean way good vind eva ;)

thanks blind_ripper for the tip... :D

Progression in Super Pi 32M times at different FSB/MEM configurations with 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 Micron D9GMH modules (unless otherwise stated)

System

• E6700 L629B079 B2
• Kayl Black FrozenSS 1/4HP
• Asus Commando 1001 bios
• 128MB Gainward FX5200 PCI
• 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 naked modules cooled by 3x 60x25mm Sunon 23.5cfm Maglev fans
• 160GB Seagate 7200.7 SATA
• Pioneer DVR-08 Burner
• Sony FDD
• 620W Corsair HX620 Modular PSU
• WinXP Pro SP2

• 12m 15.125s - 4199.9Mhz - 10x420FSB 1:1 420Mhz 4-4-4-5 3-30-3-9-8-9 (2x1GB Team 6400C3 Micron D9GMH)
• 12m 08.594s - 4000.0Mhz - 10x400FSB 2:3 600Mhz 5-5-4-5 3-25-4-10-5-10
• 12m 00.672s - 4036.5Mhz - 10x403FSB 2:3 605Mhz 5-5-4-5 3-25-4-10-5-10
• 11m 52.657s - 4220.9Mhz - 9x469FSB 1:1 469Mhz 4-4-4-5 3-25-3-9-6-9
• 11m 50.031s - 4230.0Mhz - 9x470FSB 1:1 470Mhz 4-4-4-5 3-25-3-9-6-9
• 11m 47.484s - 4200.0Mhz - 10x420FSB 4:5 525Mhz 5-4-4-5 4-25-3-10-6-10
• 11m 43.406s - 4229.9Mhz - 10x423FSB 4:5 528Mhz 5-4-4-5 4-25-3-10-6-10
• 11m 39.016s - 4200.0Mhz - 10x420FSB 2:3 630Mhz 5-5-5-9 5-25-10-10-9-10
• 11m 37.266s - 4229.9Mhz - 10x423FSB 2:3 634Mhz 5-5-5-9 5-25-10-10-9-10 <== time enough to be placed in hwbot.org 32M rankings at #100 position!

Room temp = 23.5C
Evap temp idle = -40.5C
Evap super pi temp (load) = -36.5C

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...m_11s875ms.png

Seem to have hit a wall around 4230Mhz and/or cpu vcore limited to around 1.688-1.696v according to Asus PC Probe2 at 1.7v and 1.75v respectively. 1.7625v and higher jumps to 1.808v vcore but doesn't help with >4230Mhz so far. I guess this E6700 L629B079 ain't that good as it only did Super Pi 32M max @3904Mhz at 1.672v on water cooling (Swiftech G4 Storm/Thermochill 120.3/MCP650).

Power consumption wise, I had the system hooked up to my Power-mate wattage meter to see how much power draw from mains power was with the Super Pi benching session @4230Mhz at 1.688v (Kayl Black FrozenSS 1/4HP unit excluded from the power draw only the system measured).

Peak wattage = 264.4 Watts
System off standby wattage = 4.4 Watts

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...8_264watts.jpg

After doing my first cpu change on this insulated board from E6700 B2 to E6600 B1 ES, I'm glad i did the insulation the way i outlined in this thread.

Why ? The key was the vinyl tape layer between the initial top foam layer and the Aerotape sticky back foam top layer. All i had to do was peel back the vinyl layer and it came up with the top Aerotape foam layer intact and in perfect shape. Just swapped out cpu, reapplied a bit more dielectric grease, plugged in E6600 B1 ES. Then locked cpu in place and just put the vinyl layer back down in perfect placement and it re-adhered without problems :)

This left the initial foam layer undamaged as well so I can go through all my cpus without really needing to redo the insulation everytime :D

Evap load = -34.6C @9x499FSB at 1.664v

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com..._validated.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...m_11s250ms.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...s_pcprobe2.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...verest_twk.png

Wprime 32M & 1024M
Wprime 1024M @9x490FSB at 1.664v = Evap load temp = -31.8C

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...ime_all_tn.png

Seems to be enough for 1M and cpuz validation @4500Mhz - 9x500FSB at 1.664v :)

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com..._validated.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Com...m_11s234ms.png

Here's some photos to illustrate what i mentioned about changing cpus at http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...firstcpu_swap/

First unmount with E6700 B2 L629B079 cpu in there

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_02.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_03.JPG

3M Scotch Super 88 Vinyl tape lifted up with E6700 B2 L629B079 in place and then changed to E6600 B1 ES lapped cpu

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_05.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_07.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_08.JPG

E6700 B2 L629B079 cpu cleaned up well with a dip in Arctic Cleaner #1 and #2 solutions and paper towel :)

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_13.JPG http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_14.JPG

E6600 B1 ES lapped stock bios temps

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl...ommando_15.JPG

Thats some nice E6600 ya got there eva2000 ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eva2000

Well guys booted her up but temps being reported are all over the place on Asus Commando..

First mount

E6700 L629B079

@stock speeds
Evap = -44.4C
Bios cpu temp = -39.5C


Tried speedfan 4.32 and still shows core0/1 at 16C like coretemp but there's two temp values which show constant -48C ???

Also setfsb doesn't seem to want to work after a few failed setfsb FSB bumps in windows - now everytime i load setfsb it says 'startup failed' ?

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Eva Those -48 readings in speed fan i get the same on Phase..you have 3 temp probs at the bottom of your Mboard, only way to stop error is to actually put sensors on them.

Set Fsb errors...I use Clockgen on the commando it works fine.
Amazing bios temp -39.5c when ur evap heads at -44c
good fitting.

Cheers Hori

thanks Hori and Kayl :)

going to put my E6600 L709A958 i just got second hand.. 3960Mhz 32M on water so hopefully will clock as good if not better than my E6600 B1 ES.. need it for better super pi times on B2 stepping :)

Eva you dont need better Pi times ehe

But good on ya for kepping it up..I just cant seem to get my Pi times as fast as you guru's ---lots windows tweaking involved wich i didnt seem to manage to well :shocked:

Cheers Hori

You all crazy ^^

So your experiments long will not proceed. My last payment (I them had 5 pieces) already has transferred more than 100 hours under a dry ice and 40 hours under liquid nitrogen!!!!!!!! Elements around of the processor are heated very strongly, even at cooling by liquid nitrogen, to close them very dangerously! They can easily overheat! All your diligence is excessive!

http://www.topmods.net/nord/di_v0.9.jpg