Whats up with the Aquaduct?

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

06-19-2007, 05:00 PM
Top Nurse

Whats up with the Aquaduct?

I know I have been interested in seeing the new AC Aquaduct so I suppose perhaps others might as well. It took a while to get the moula up as these go for about $550 here in the states (colonies for you brits), but I have one now. Now most people want to stick it into their rig to see how well it works. Since I take the road less traveled my first thought is to take it apart and do some modding. More on that later. So for now let's see what we get. This monster hunk of German engineering is really quite heavy even without water. I didn't weigh it (scales are bad to have in the house ;)) but it appears to be about 25-30 lbs for the main unit.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_17.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_18.jpg

The rest of the stuff comes in the other box and seems to be well packaged for transport around the world. From what I understand the units shipped from Germany for local use come pre-filled with H20 and AC Fluid. The USA distributor (Sharka) asked that they not be shipped filled due to worries about leaks and adding substantially to the freight costs.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_2.jpg

The first item here is the CD that comes in the box. You might not be able to see from the pic, but it has been tested on XP Sp 2; Vista x32, and Vista x64. If you happen to be a penguin fan they also have software for the Linux OS as well. In addition the CD also has Samurize and some videos showing the making of various AC components. One thing to keep in mind is that the software requires version 2 of the .NET framework. If you need software that will run on version 1 there are several back versions of the software you may find usable here at the Aqua Computer site. You can also find version 1 & 2 on the CD as well. One thing I forgot to mention is that the Aquasuite software is open source and the SDK is included on the CD as well.

You used to have to run the Aquasuite in the background if you wanted to use Samurize, but now someone has made a hack that allows you to print operating conditions directly to your screen without the Aquasuite being on. :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_3.jpg

Next you see the rest of the stuff in the box.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_4.jpg

A bottle of AC Fluid. My math calculates about 343 ML of distilled water + 7 cc AC Fluid in my Feeding Frenzy Interlude project. So I figure you can make about 2.5 liters of coolant with this 50 cc bottle. From what I have been told the whole Aquaduct system (including blocks) holds about 2 liters of coolant.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_5.jpg

Here the slot device through which the hoses can go through your case into the computer. The serial is not really a serial port, but only to carry power to the Aquaduct and for some assorted accessory use in case you want to add standby power or a relay output to your ATX break line.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_6.jpg

Some more closeup views of the circuit board.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_7.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_8.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Aquaduct_9.jpg

Here is something that always comes in AC kits and pumps. I know the paper clip routine is more ghetto, but this works well too. Don't let your friends see it or it will disappear. :D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_10.jpg

These are the handles that go on the bottom of the Aquaduct to turn off and on the ball valves.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_11.jpg

The next little bag is for the G 1/8 6mm x 8mm push-fit connectors. Don't lose the black pin connector! If your not using the standby power the Aquaduct fans will not work unless you have this! The hex key is to open the top so you can fill the unit. If your not into 6 x 8 tubing you can get up to 3/8" barbs here.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_12.jpg

About six feet of USB and serial cables.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_13.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_14.jpg

About 9 feet of what looks suspiciously like Legris PUR double tubing.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_15.jpg

In case your wondering why the dual colors it has to do with making the install as painless as possible. See the screen shot below as it helps you make sure you get the intake and output right. Hooking it up ass backwards will probably result in you having to drain the system and refilling it to get all the air out. :(

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...60xt_5_500.jpg

And of course what manufacturer doesn't include a nice full color manual with their products? ;) One bow wow here as the box was supposed to have an Aquaero manual as well. I already have a couple of the manual's laying around but someone new to AC would have a fit trying to figure out how the electronics work. Fortunately the CD has all current manuals on it in both German and English.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...quaduct_16.jpg

Getting back to the Aquaduct here are some more pics. The first one is a stock AC pic that shows the system lit up when it's running. I'm using the AC pic because it might be a while before I get this modded to my own liking. :cool: BTW, the reason they call it an Aquaduct is because the water comes up on the right and flows over the top bridge before falling down on the left side.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...60xt_2_500.jpg

Here are the pics I shot a couple of months ago when Sharka put my Aquaduct on the lay-a-way plan.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...abox-360-2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...abox-360-3.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ox-360-6-1.jpg

Another bow wow here as I hate it when I'm not supposed to open little black boxes up. :eek: :down: However, I guess when it's difficult to put together the manufacturer just wants it understood that they ain't paying to fix your inability to put it back together. :up:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...box-360-10.jpg

So here is where we get off till I get a chance to do some reverse engineering later this week. The three Aquaduct units (that I know of here in the states) that were taken apart were never successfully put back together and to a one they all leaked. So I took it up on the AC English Forum and got some straight answers to my questions of how to disassemble it correctly from the CEO of AC.
06-19-2007, 05:28 PM
YugenM

Once you get it up and running, I want to see the "duct" at the top in action, since I've never been able to find a pic of it.
06-19-2007, 05:42 PM
ranker

$560 for a proprietary external pump/radiator the size of a small statue? :eek:

Why not get newls Waterkeg instead for something smaller, cheaper, and performance oriented without the proprietary parts? :eek:
06-19-2007, 05:48 PM
Baleful

I'm not gonna get into the flame war that's gonna erupt from this. I just wana see some temps please. Thanks.
06-19-2007, 05:54 PM
nugzo

I'd like to see that on a couple of 8800GTX's.
06-19-2007, 05:55 PM
topaimz

same here, I just wanna see some results.

It kinda looks like the koolance kits, except this one stands up.

The tubes look awfully small... but I won't jump to any conclusions
before you show us some temps~
06-19-2007, 05:56 PM
Grinch

+1 waterkeg whips it's A$$
06-19-2007, 05:56 PM
IanY

OOOooo.. I have to keep this thread hidden from my wife !! She's been pestering me to buy this Aquaduct and get rid of all my ugly stuff !!

You guys have to admit its good looking. They look like electrostatic speakers. One on each side of the case would look real good.
06-19-2007, 06:18 PM
Baleful

I think it looks "OK". Guess I just like the look of a custom MM case w/ 3 internal PA's lol.
06-19-2007, 07:10 PM
Top Nurse
Well it will be a while before I get into the temps part as the modding part I'm looking to do involves the electronics and the flow meter. However, I do know someone who is using it to cool a pair of 8800 GTX's IIRC. I will send him a post and ask him to drop by. R1ckCa1n also uses one with a D-Tek Fuzion.

Some have thought that the price is kind of high. I even fell over until I realized the scope of the unit.
- It has a LCD Aquaero $130
- An Eheim Compact 600 pump ~$40
- An AC Airplex Extreme III radiator $65
- Electronic flow sensor $45
- Electronic water level sensor $43
- Pair of ball valves $20
- Serial and USB cables ~$20-30
- Aquasuite software FREE :D
- Electronic temp sensor $14
- Pair of fittings $8
- Bottle of AC Fluid $9
- Three 120mm AC Airstream fans ~$30
- Unseen fittings ~$50
That comes up to about $475 - $485 + air shipping from Germany. And that doesn't even include the cost of the unit itself. Looks cheap to me at $550 USD. :D
06-19-2007, 07:11 PM
RickCain

I ran this for over a month and find about a 1c difference between my old loop. Overclocking of my e6600 remained the same so I would say it works just fine. The test will be when I get my second 8800 and plan to use it on that loop. Since it has a 120.3 radiator I would say it will do a pretty good job of cooling. I have already seen loops with six blocks with this device and it maintained good operating temps.

Old loop (well now current)

DDC1 w/ Alphacool top
6mm id / 8mm compression fittings
Dtek Fuzion block

The Aquaduct was running plug n cool connectors with the same Fuzion block and 6mm id / 8mm tubing. All I can say is it clearly is the sexiest peice of external hardware available today.
06-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

OOOooo.. I have to keep this thread hidden from my wife !! She's been pestering me to buy this Aquaduct and get rid of all my ugly stuff !!

You guys have to admit its good looking. They look like electrostatic speakers. One on each side of the case would look real good.

Send me her email address. :yepp: Or better yet give her one for her birthday. She will be so happy she won't bug you about your clod hoppers. :D

I didn't show you the other side did I? Well the other side has another set of three grills that look identical to the front. The air comes in from the outside and exhausts out the other side. No problem here with using heated case air for cooling. Place this in front of your air conditioner and then you get a real cooling off experience. :D
06-19-2007, 07:47 PM
lee143

For the price, I can't really say it's worth it. Anyone agree/disagree?
06-19-2007, 07:51 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

Why not get newls Waterkeg instead for something smaller, cheaper, and performance oriented without the proprietary parts? :eek:

Oh no!!! A thread crap and a hijack all in one. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...con_risota.gif
06-19-2007, 08:28 PM
NaeKuh

guys... no flaming... no trolling... NO COMMENTS about how this is crap! until he has released his results.

Top Nurse, ive been defending you lately, so dont pour butane on the fire. I'll bust out the CO2 to help you keep it under control.

However, we would like REAL and TRUE results. Thats all we ask.
06-19-2007, 08:29 PM
YugenM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

guys... no flaming... no trolling... NO COMMENTS about how this is crap! until he has released his results.

Top Nurse, ive been defending you lately, so dont pour butane on the fire. I'll bust out the CO2 to help you keep it under control.

However, we would like REAL and TRUE results. Thats all we ask.

TN isn't a "he," TN is a "she."
06-19-2007, 08:54 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Top Nurse, ive been defending you lately, so dont pour butane on the fire. I'll bust out the CO2 to help you keep it under control.

However, we would like REAL and TRUE results. Thats all we ask.

I always post real results whether they are favorable or not. Anything less is a waste of time.

I have heard that the pump only puts out about 80 LPH and now that I know they put in an AC flow meter I know why. The AC flow meter has a very tiny hole in it as seen below on the left side on the bottom pic. I took these pics several years ago and published on the [H] with advice on how to fix it.

When I get inside the Aquaduct I will have a better idea about what to do about this. If it has room to put in the Innovatek flow meter that is what I intend to do as it gives an automatic boost in flow to about 160 LPM. If that isn't possible I will bore it out and do enough testing to accurately gauge the impulses per liter (IPL) so I can correctly set the Aquaero flow settings. The Aquaero allows for 0-2500 IPL setting so I think it will be possible to do this. I also have, hopefully, a Swissflow SF 800 coming soon. Then I go visit an engineering friend up at Cal State LA and see what kind of electrical circuit she can hookup for me so I can interface it to the Aquaero.

I'm also planning on putting in 8mm x 10mm tubing if it is anyway possible.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...rAssembly1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...rAssembly2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...rAssembly4.jpg
06-19-2007, 08:59 PM
septim

i am with Neakuh on this, temps pls.

bling wise it does look nice...

IanY, better keep wife off XS thread, with the influx of new people from [H] you dont know what she might see next...
06-19-2007, 09:00 PM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapeless1

For the price, I can't really say it's worth it. Anyone agree/disagree?

I agree it's not worth it. For $560, I can build an entire loop that won't require an external housing with the best parts, heck I could build two loops. But hey, if someone wants to throw their money around, so be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by septim

IanY, better keep wife off XS thread, with the influx of new people from [H] you dont know what she might see next...

Seriously. Cage them off.
06-19-2007, 09:03 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

I agree it's not worth it. For $560, I can build an entire loop that won't require an external housing with the best parts, heck I could build two loops. But hey, if someone wants to throw their money around, so be it.

ranker, i consider you my buddy so i'll say this nicely to you, but can we please drop it, until she busts out the results.

And i dont know if it means anything to you, but a SHE that watercools is always :up:

If i can only get my best friend now to accept watercooling. :shrug:
06-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by septim

i am with Neakuh on this, temps pls.

bling wise it does look nice...

Like I said in my OP this Aquaduct won't be seeing water for a while. However, R1ckCa1n posted his observations a few posts back. When the [H] comes back up I will PM my other friend who has one and see if he will post here as well. Whoa hold the phone! It seems my friend has an account here so I will PM from here. :D

Edit: Went looking and there is already info on this forum about Aquaduct temps => right here.
06-19-2007, 10:49 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by topaimz

It kinda looks like the koolance kits, except this one stands up.

The Koolance ones are made out of sheet metal (I know because I have one). The Aquaduct is mostly aircraft quality aluminum blocks machined on a CNC mill. The side extrusions are part of the passive water cooling and the radiator and fans are the active cooling part.

Even if you didn't have the Aquaero to measure water levels and flow the sides have flow and fluid level indicators that can be checked visually.
06-19-2007, 11:09 PM
Halk

I thought I'd have a look at prices, since AquaComputer stuff tends to be cheaper in the UK/Europe.

The short answer is it's not in this case. It's almost exactly the same price to buy direct from Germany as the price TN paid.

It's quite an expensive piece of kit, but they do a cut down version.

The 240 version (2 x 120mm radiator) doesn't come with the Aqaero, and the price for that in dollars is rougly 360. There's also a 240V pump rather than the 12V pump one and that's about 40 dollars cheaper again.

Considering the unit has pump, res, fans, rad built in, it's only going to be bought (generally) by people without an existing watercooling system.

Someone new to watercooling is going to find it a bit of a push to go and buy the full version of this - not that I'm saying it's a bad purchase, just that it's one step from no watercooling to the full monitored bhuna.

I really think AC should have done an Aquaduct without the Aqaero. By all means put a blanking plate so one can be later installed, or make sure it can be installed in the main PC box to the external unit. But having the Aqaero built in puts the price up very high.
06-19-2007, 11:12 PM
afireinside

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

$560 for a proprietary external pump/radiator the size of a small statue? :eek:

Why not get newls Waterkeg instead for something smaller, cheaper, and performance oriented without the proprietary parts? :eek:

This man is a GENIUS! :shocked:
06-19-2007, 11:12 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

The Koolance ones are made out of sheet metal (I know because I have one). The Aquaduct is mostly aircraft quality aluminum blocks machined on a CNC mill. The side extrusions are part of the passive water cooling and the radiator and fans are the active cooling part.

Even if you didn't have the Aquaero to measure water levels and flow the sides have flow and fluid level indicators that can be checked visually.

oh wait... your telling me the side alu has contact with the coolant? :down:

So its mixing metals then?

Blah this might change everything then. I was hopping it was just a bling. But if its touching the alu and your going to mix metals. :shakes:

Honestly my intentions in this product was exactly like iany says. Dual it up with 2 aquaducts. Make them look like speakers on a HTPC. Have one do the CPU/BOARD, The other GFX cards. It would look dayam professional and hella nice, but if its mixing metals.
06-19-2007, 11:53 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

oh wait... your telling me the side alu has contact with the coolant? So its mixing metals then?

Blah this might change everything then. I was hopping it was just a bling. But if its touching the alu and your going to mix metals. :shakes:

Honestly my intentions in this product was exactly like iany says. Dual it up with 2 aquaducts. Make them look like speakers on a HTPC. Have one do the CPU/BOARD, The other GFX cards. It would look dayam professional and hella nice, but if its mixing metals.

We have recently seen the downfall of another closely held false belief related to tubing size. I can tell you there are thousands of people world wide who are doing this day in and day out with no problems.

Before you go on about heavy mixtures of automotive concoctions to keep this from happening let me tell you about the AC Fluid additive I use (and comes with this kit). I mix 98% distilled water and 2% of AC Fluid together. As you can imagine a 2% mix of just about anything isn't going to seriously degrade the cooling potential of water.

AC Fluid is a pure anti-corrosion product. It doesn't do anything, but prevent corrosion. Another similar product is InnovaProtect from Innovatek. Do you really think that two of the largest producers of water cooling equipment in the world would be selling aluminum and copper based systems if they thought there was the slightest chance in hell that there would be corrosion? In Europe manufacturers have to warranty their products for a minimum of two years per the European Union.

So as I posted elsewhere today please believe me that there isn't any corrosion in my Aqua Computer systems and give me the benefit of the doubt till someone "proves" what I am talking about. It probably doesn't matter to you, but AC uses a company to do their hard anodizing, that is primarily involved in the medical field and has extremely high standards about their processes. They don't use the plating company down the street that does the cheapest job. :)

BTW, you guys got a lot more moula than I do if your thinking of a pair of Aquaduct's for a HTPC. :shocked:
06-20-2007, 12:04 AM
Aqua-Pc's

Looking good TN but we need more pics :p:
06-20-2007, 12:10 AM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aqua-Pc's

Looking good TN but we need more pics :p:

I gotta job right now to fix my brothers computer. A HD died a violent death (Seagate) and it should be done tonight sometime. Then a day to clean up the place before I void my warranty. :D
06-20-2007, 12:19 AM
Aqua-Pc's

Yeh cant wait to see what they have done inside it!
06-20-2007, 02:29 AM
sc00p

Maybe I'm blind but theseeker didn't have any temps from oced system?
(and for the convenience can I ask for using CoreTemp0.95 readings)... yeah, I know I barked that CoreTemp elsewhere

EDIT: yes I'm blind he said E6600@3.7GHz was 46~47c... ummm...
...no mention about ambient temps...
06-20-2007, 08:23 AM
serialk11r

Well at least the tubes were made of polyurethane...
06-20-2007, 08:39 AM
NaeKuh

okey im sorry i promised i wouldnt flame and would wait patiently for results.

But your saying mixing metals is okey?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=mixing+metals

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=mixing+metals

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&postcount=80

So no... im sorry TN, aquaPC is feeding you a load of crap when they say its OKEY.

Can you verify the annodizing on it? can you tell us the electo processes in which you annodized the alu?

Can you offer warrenty if it ever does corrode?

Theres TOO many accidents that happen because of mixing metals, that its best to stay away from it completely.

And i think marci sums it up the best with this quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...nium+corrosion ...says it all.
Manufacturers cannot account for the idiot factor (aka net-clue-factor to coin Cathar's way of saying it). If you can't account for the idiot factor, don't build items that an idiot cannot use correctly..
06-20-2007, 08:50 AM
lee143

I see this explanation all over this forum. Why are you saying otherwise TN? :confused:
06-20-2007, 09:28 AM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapeless1

I see this explanation all over this forum. Why are you saying otherwise TN? :confused:

Because it's Aqua Computers and she'll do anything to defend the product. It's the typical "I bought it, so it must be awesome in every regard" type of mentality.

I'm with Naekuh on this. Using mixed metals is inefficient in many regards. Not only does it absolutely require you to run anti corrosives, which lower the efficiency of your cooling solution, but also requires you to monitor your equipment to ensure corrosion hasn't occurred. There are some companies that use well documented plating techniques and gives you somewhat some peace of mind but anodizing is easily ruined by the slightest scratch.

You'd think with something of that cost, they'd at least use a copper/brass solution to give you the most bang for your buck. But, I guess some companies will do what they can to short change the user. At least Aqua Computers didn't put out a BS test trying to top copper/brass radiators like Koolance did.
06-20-2007, 11:47 AM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

Because it's Aqua Computers and she'll do anything to defend the product. It's the typical "I bought it, so it must be awesome in every regard" type of mentality.

I'm with Naekuh on this. Using mixed metals is inefficient in many regards. Not only does it absolutely require you to run anti corrosives, which lower the efficiency of your cooling solution, but also requires you to monitor your equipment to ensure corrosion hasn't occurred. There are some companies that use well documented plating techniques and gives you somewhat some peace of mind but anodizing is easily ruined by the slightest scratch.

You'd think with something of that cost, they'd at least use a copper/brass solution to give you the most bang for your buck. But, I guess some companies will do what they can to short change the user. At least Aqua Computers didn't put out a BS test trying to top copper/brass radiators like Koolance did.

No defending anything or anybody here. However, do I not get the same accusations lobbied at me regarding Swiftech products ? Aren't I known as the fanboy that because its Swiftech, it must be great ? Granted, I buy every darn thing, but that's besides the point lol

I know everyone has given Swiftech their fair share of grief about mixed metals, but don't we all nevertheless shut one eye when it comes to the Apogee GTX ?

Just trying to be objective here.
06-20-2007, 12:45 PM
Top Nurse

Top Nurse tells all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

okey im sorry i promised i wouldnt flame and would wait patiently for results.

I guess a mans word is his bond has gone out of favor. :ROTF:

Quote:

But your saying mixing metals is okey?

Unfortunately the answer is yes and no. If you RTFM it simply isn't a problem. BTW, AC isn't the only one that has aluminum in their wc equipment.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

Read further down under Protection. Shield the metals to keep the reaction from occuring. AC Fluid ring a bell? Medical grade hard anodizing ring a bell?

Quote:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=mixing+metals

Sorry, but if you read the whole thread you will see that the OP ran it without an anti-corrosive protection. Furthermore I claim shenanigans on those pics. Now just how in the hell did that gooey looking stuff grow all the way across a tube that had water flowing through it? I think someone dropped that in a beaker and added some juice to make a point.

Quote:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=mixing+metals

So WTF does that thread have to do with the subject of mixing metals? That guy got some oxidation of a copper block...

Quote:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&postcount=80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

A responsible manufacturer would include a note in with every block clearly stating that an anticorrosive additive MUST be used.

See above about RTFM.

Quote:

So no... im sorry TN, aquaPC is feeding you a load of crap when they say its OKEY.

I think you mean Aqua Computers, correct? AquaPC is a member of this forum and is a dealer in water cooling parts. How many squirrels does it take to hide away a months supply of chestnuts? I guess it is back to being called liar's and charlatans, heh?

Quote:

Can you verify the annodizing on it? can you tell us the electo processes in which you annodized the alu?

Nope, but I have no need to know because it :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing works. :rolleyes:

I can't about the process used, but on the [H]ardForum their is a thread about this where someone from AC commented on where they have the hard anodizing done. IIRC it is a company called A.G. Rhodes whose primary operations is in working with medical grade processes. From what I recall they spend about 5-7 Euro's a part to have their hard anodizing done. They don't use the local yokels plating company down the street that charges 0.5 Euro's per part due to QC issues.

Quote:

Can you offer warrenty if it ever does corrode?

Nope because I'm not the manufacturer. I'm just a user, but as I pointed out all manufacturers of consumer equipment in the EU have to warranty their products for two (2) years IIRC.

Quote:

Theres TOO many accidents that happen because of mixing metals, that its best to stay away from it completely.

Now where is my ostrich pic when I need it. :D Conversely there are way to many traffic fatalities and serious accidents associated with driving cars as well. Are you also suggesting that you do not drive as well? Of course not because the chances of getting hit while doing everything your supposed to do is minimal.

BTW, I don't give a rats ass what happens to someone else's loop because the couldn't RTFM. Besides we are talking about my loop, right? If you look at the link above for theseeker's box you will see that he has been mixing metals for about three years now. Guess what? No corrosion....

So please start another thread if you want to turn the flame on. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapeless1

I see this explanation all over this forum. Why are you saying otherwise TN? :confused:

See above...
06-20-2007, 12:53 PM
ranker

Don't get in between someone who loves their AC... sheesh. ;)

My interpretation of the above "Torpedoes be damned! Ramming speed! Full speed ahead!"
06-20-2007, 01:04 PM
NickS

Looks pretty sweet :up:

NaeKuh and ranker, will you two stfu? Seriously, it's getting REALLY REALLY old.
06-20-2007, 01:10 PM
Angry_Steel

Yea I have to say it gets a little old hearing the same things over and over, I mean come on, theres like what, 1 guy out of maybe 100 that has problems with galvanic corrosion because he didnt properly read up on using proper additives?

Europe is full of people using Aluminum and copper together and if it was such a horrible thing and there were so many failures dont you think that word of mouth would eventually spread and companies would just die? Giving a warning that the potential is there if you dont use a proper additive is one thing, beating a dead horse into hamburger is entirely another, and I daresay exaggerating the dangers to phobic proportions.

Personally I think its south of ugly but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you cant argue with the craftsmanship. Really needs a proper review and a comparison with the most popular blocks. Problem I imagine is finding someone with both setups in the house at the same time :ROTF:
06-20-2007, 02:17 PM
rogueagent6

Top Nurse tells all? Not quite...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

I guess a mans word is his bond has gone out of favor. :ROTF:

Your maturity, or lack thereof amuses me.

Quote:

Unfortunately the answer is yes and no. If you RTFM it simply isn't a problem. BTW, AC isn't the only one that has aluminum in their wc equipment.

Your point is?

Quote:

Read further down under Protection. Shield the metals to keep the reaction from occuring. AC Fluid ring a bell? Medical grade hard anodizing ring a bell?

Anodizing wears out, additives don't last forever...

Quote:

Sorry, but if you read the whole thread you will see that the OP ran it without an anti-corrosive protection. Furthermore I claim shenanigans on those pics. Now just how in the hell did that gooey looking stuff grow all the way across a tube that had water flowing through it? I think someone dropped that in a beaker and added some juice to make a point.

Good job, way to make enemies. :clap: :rolleyes:

Quote:

I think you mean Aqua Computers, correct? AquaPC is a member of this forum and is a dealer in water cooling parts. How many squirrels does it take to hide away a months supply of chestnuts? I guess it is back to being called liar's and charlatans, heh?

Since you obviously haven't figured it out, this is XtremeSystems... We will strive to achieve that last 1-2 C.

Quote:

Nope, but I have no need to know because it :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing works. :rolleyes:

Since you're so sure, you care to back it up with factual data?

Quote:

I can't about the process used, but on the [H]ardForum their is a thread about this where someone from AC commented on where they have the hard anodizing done. IIRC it is a company called A.G. Rhodes whose primary operations is in working with medical grade processes. From what I recall they spend about 5-7 Euro's a part to have their hard anodizing done. They don't use the local yokels plating company down the street that charges 0.5 Euro's per part due to QC issues.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Nope because I'm not the manufacturer. I'm just a user, but as I pointed out all manufacturers of consumer equipment in the EU have to warranty their products for two (2) years IIRC.

If I remember correctly, all the components I've ever purchased have been warrantied for longer than two years. Now, if that AC product fails outside of the warranty and takes other components out because it failed, what are you going to do? If I paid what you did for that setup, I would expect it to be warrantied for at least as long as a CPU/Video card/Hard drive.

Quote:

Now where is my ostrich pic when I need it. :D Conversely there are way to many traffic fatalities and serious accidents associated with driving cars as well. Are you also suggesting that you do not drive as well? Of course not because the chances of getting hit while doing everything your supposed to do is minimal.

No, but flying is statistically safer than driving. That's what I liken your argument to. There are less factors in play in a custom brass/copper system than your AC setup, therefore fewer chances for failure.

Quote:

BTW, I don't give a rats ass what happens to someone else's loop because the couldn't RTFM. Besides we are talking about my loop, right? If you look at the link above for theseeker's box you will see that he has been mixing metals for about three years now. Guess what? No corrosion....

So please start another thread if you want to turn the flame on. :)

I think you already turned it on. :rolleyes:
06-20-2007, 03:10 PM
Top Nurse
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Your maturity, or lack thereof amuses me.
Your point is?
Anodizing wears out, additives don't last forever...
Good job, way to make enemies. :clap: :rolleyes:
Since you obviously haven't figured it out, this is XtremeSystems... We will strive to achieve that last 1-2 C.
Since you're so sure, you care to back it up with factual data?
Fair enough.
If I remember correctly, all the components I've ever purchased have been warrantied for longer than two years. Now, if that AC product fails outside of the warranty and takes other components out because it failed, what are you going to do? If I paid what you did for that setup, I would expect it to be warrantied for at least as long as a CPU/Video card/Hard drive.
No, but flying is statistically safer than driving. That's what I liken your argument to. There are less factors in play in a custom brass/copper system than your AC setup, therefore fewer chances for failure.
I think you already turned it on. :rolleyes:
1. Glad your amused so easily. :up:
2. It should have been obvious. What part of it don't you understand?
3. As I said before RTFM :rolleyes: If it wears out in the next 5-10 years who cares? Besides it isn't in a wear environment.
4. I call them the way I see them.
5. Well actually it wasn't 1-2 C. I was just being nice. What we (those who run this kind of equipment) have actually seen is a 1 to 1.5 C difference. Those who have made real life observations think that it appears to be closer to about 1 C. See various links and posts in this thread. Besides do you really think that a 1 C difference will make any difference in the ability to use your computer? See the post a few back from R1ckCa1n.
6. Several thousand users that haven't had a problem. In Europe the mixing of metals is almost commonplace. Here in the states it is gaining ground because what you are saying has been proven time and time again by the users themselves that have tried it. What else do you want? :shrug: I actually have three metals in my loop (silver, aluminum, and copper).
7. See, you can add 1 and 1 and make 2.
8. I could care less as I'm not connected with the manufacturer or their distribution network in any way. Besides your issue is one of value. Personally I think gold is crap and prefer platinum, but that doesn't mean gold is crap to everyone else. Sounds to me like this isn't your cup of tea so don't buy it. However, don't dis it just because you don't like it's look or it doesn't hold to your belief system.
9. Your the one talking about chance. I'm the one talking about the way it is.
10. Oh well, it will make for an interesting thread. What cracks me up is that every time there is one of these kinds of threads on the internet the AC distributors in the English speaking world say that sales take a sharp up turn. Those AC guys in Germany have had to buy four more CNC's since December 2006 just to keep up with the demand. :D
06-20-2007, 03:21 PM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Well actually it wasn't 1-2 C. I was just being nice. What we (those who run this kind of equipment) have actually seen is a 1 to 1.5 C difference. Those who have made real life observations think that it appears to be closer to about 1 C. See various links and posts in this thread. Besides do you really think that a 1 C difference will make any difference in the ability to use your computer? See the post a few back from R1ckCa1n.

1C difference from what? A superstar Thermochill/Laing/D-Tek/Swiftech build? or from the venerable Thermaltake rigs?

Quote:

Several thousand users that haven't had a problem. In Europe the mixing of metals is almost commonplace. Here in the states it is gaining ground because what you are saying has been proven time and time again by the users themselves that have tried it. What else do you want? :shrug: I actually have three metals in my loop (silver, aluminum, and copper).

How does the lack of interaction between Silver and Copper make your point?

Quote:

I could care less as I'm not connected with the manufacturer or their distribution network in any way. Besides your issue is one of value. Personally I think gold is crap and prefer platinum, but that doesn't mean gold is crap to everyone else. Sounds to me like this isn't your cup of tea so don't buy it. However, don't dis it just because you don't like it's look or it doesn't hold to your belief system.

Just like how you've been giving your opinions "freely" on other people's equipment which you have admitted to not having used, what makes your equipment so special that he's not allowed to voice his comments on it?

Quote:

Oh well, it will make for an interesting thread. What cracks me up is that every time there is one of these kinds of threads on the internet the AC distributors in the English speaking world say that sales take a sharp up turn. Those AC guys in Germany have had to buy four more CNC's since December 2006 just to keep up with the demand. :D

Glad to be of service. They'll need all the help they can get.
06-20-2007, 03:24 PM
RickCain

Can we get back on topic? The thread is about showing the forum a new product not Ranker versus AC.

This piece of hardware is truely incredible. I actually am in the middle taking it apart to see how they crammed so much hardware in this thing. Only camplaint is I would like to have no pump included so it can really shine. That is my "plan b", to remove the existing pump and introduce a DDC1.
06-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

Can we get back on topic? The thread is about showing the forum a new product not Ranker versus AC. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...s/bit-clap.gif http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...s/bit-clap.gif http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...s/bit-clap.gif

This piece of hardware is truely incredible. I actually am in the middle taking it apart to see how they crammed so much hardware in this thing. Only camplaint is I would like to have no pump included so it can really shine. That is my "plan b", to remove the existing pump and introduce a DDC1.

Exactly what I had in mind if my flow meter mods don't pan out. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ys/slobber.gif Check out the thread I started on the AC English forum for some clues about how to take it apart.

BTW, I'm wondering if the serial port connector uses all available pins. If it doesn't it might be possible to run the Poweradjust wiring through the connector block.
06-20-2007, 03:36 PM
Gunlance

It looks purty!
06-20-2007, 03:38 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Check out the thread I started on the AC English forum for some clues about how to take it apart.

Mine is in about 50 peices right now......... You want to remove the two side columns and the rest is pretty easy. Getting it back together is a whole different animal. :down:
06-20-2007, 03:41 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

Mine is in about 50 peices right now......... You want to remove the two side columns and the rest is pretty easy. Getting it back together is a whole different animal. :down:

Sounds like you did it wrong. Your supposed to take off the aluminum "aquaduct top" first and make sure you unattach the Aquaero LED. Then you take off the back plate by unscrewing the fan bolts. Next you raise the front panel till you can get to the innards according to Stephan. I don't think taking off the side tanks are a good idea.
06-20-2007, 03:49 PM
SiGfever

Gentlemen and ladies, this thread could not get further off track. A product is being shown some will like and others may not. We all have the right to decide for ourselves if this product is something that we are interested in. I like the looks and the "features" such as the Aquaero and Aquasuite software. It is hard to disagree with the fact that AC makes some nice looking stuff.

Now mixing metal is something that I have not been comfortable with in the past but with advances in anodizing I am willing to rethink my position. So let TN get on with her thread and the facts will speak for themselves. Is this "Xtreme"? Maybe yes, maybe no, but it obviously fits a niche for some. JMO
06-20-2007, 04:12 PM
newls1

Guys.......Let hold off on the arguing with each other, this product isn't worth internet fighting:) TOP NURSE, if you have the time, and or chance, could you please test this using a QUAD CORE with 1.5+Vcore and a OC of 3.5GHz or greater:confused:
06-20-2007, 04:50 PM
buffbiff21

^ I second that (both parts). I want to see temperatures.

I also want to see a couple 8800GTXs in the loop as well, and maybe a northbridge and a southbridge if that's possible, as it was with my PA120.3.
06-20-2007, 05:10 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffbiff21

^ I second that (both parts). I want to see temperatures.

I also want to see a couple 8800GTXs in the loop as well, and maybe a northbridge and a southbridge if that's possible, as it was with my PA120.3.

Funny thing is that is what most Euro companies build their goods for (many blocks in the loop). Most US based systems consist of a CPU and maybe GPU, GPU but more often have separate loops for the GPU GPU configuration.

TN should be posting results with CPU, GPU, GPU, NB, HD, HD, HD all off one loop.

My goal is to retrofit mine with a DDC1 and 8mm id tubing to see how much better it performs since we all now know the pump can overcome smaller tubing.
06-20-2007, 05:16 PM
buffbiff21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

My goal is to retrofit mine with a DDC1 and 8mm id tubing to see how much better it performs since we all now know the pump can overcome smaller tubing.

If it doesn't die first :rofl:
06-20-2007, 05:20 PM
NaeKuh

no TOP nurse, i still hold my vow about overall flaming until the results are out.

But i cant stress how bad it is to mix metals.

Why? because i have gone though nightmares, my cousin has gone though nightmares, we have clear documented episodes where mixing metals has ran into nightmares.

And at nicks, IM NOT FLAMING HER, IM FLAMING THE OVERALL PRODUCT.

Do you aprove of mixing metals? did you not read marci's post about vendors needing to idiot proof there stuff as much as possible? Could you recomend a newbie to mix metals even tho he has had anti corrosion fluid?

@Iany: Gabe gave the milspec plating. And were talking about plating there pal. This is straight annodized alu, or maybe even no annodizing. I Give this product litterally 2 months without any additives b4 it rips a hole right though the side and someone crys that they lost a 540 dollar unit.

And if they are mixing metals, then why make the CPU block copper? At least XSPC was smart and made most of there blocks alu. Koolance gold plated most of there stuff. Even zalman uses gold plating with alu blocks.

AquaPC blocks are copper, the reservoir is alu. <---- this doesnt look good.

Im not trying to flame anyone or anything, and i was seriously interested in buying a PAIR for my HTPC setup. YES I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO GIVE IT A TRY PENDING HER RESULTS.

But now that its mixing metals... Hellz no.... unless aquapc rep wants to answer my questions i asked above, i wouldnt touch this thing with a 10 foot pole.

So whats the annodized process?
What assurance do we have that it wont corrode?
Whats the warrenty on it if it does corrode?

These are VERY important topics that need to be discussed b4 you buy this product.
06-20-2007, 05:41 PM
Top Nurse

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2% mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier? ;)
06-20-2007, 05:46 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffbiff21

If it doesn't die first :rofl:

Since it's been done quite a lot over the last few years, the only failures we will see is the naturally occurring ones from the Laing garbage getting out of the factory. In case you don't know, AC sells DDC pumps and even makes a controller board to run them that is accessible through the Aquasuite software.
06-20-2007, 06:01 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2% mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier? ;)

ummmm.... i prefer aquapc answer my three questions i posted at top. If they have nothing to hide, they would be more then willing to answer it, like gabe did with the apogeeGTX.

And Top Nurse, no offense, but you dont have the liability to answer any of the vendors questions like this. Will you pay us if the unit breaks? will you repair the unit for us? Are you licensed by AC to repair or modify there units?

So, as much as i and everyone else loves your imput, id suggest you keep the vendor questions out of your posts. AquaPC does have a rep here, and he should be fully able to answer my questions like gabe did with swiftech and the apogeeGTX.

And as i said i was prepared to drop $1080 for a pair on a HTPC setup. AquaPC rep now has to assure me my 1080 dollars wont goto waste on a thing that will leak a pinhole 2-5months down the road.

And i hate additives, because it reduces water properties. The only additive i even consider is a tiny bit of glycol to help lube my pumps. Water wetter, which is most likely whats in that AC fluid package, will hurt performance.
06-20-2007, 06:05 PM
rogueagent6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2% mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier? ;)

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.
06-20-2007, 06:11 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

now thats not really fair. I dont think a PA120.3 could handle that kind of load with a single pump solution.

Assuming the GTX were at full load with RTHDRIBL
And the Quad Overclocked to 1.5Vcore Real, while running orthos.

But if it could hold up to that. :shocked:

I'll use the water wetter, and get 2 of these babies right now.
06-20-2007, 06:19 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

Funny, I would say 1 out of 50 loops I see have more than three blocks around here so why ask for more than the norm?

Maybe you have not been around people who use AC gear but NOT ONCE will anyone say it will cool as well as a higher flow system. That is not the point of this product. It will cool very well while having a much higher esthetic quality about it.

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

now thats not really fair. I dont think a PA120.3 could handle that kind of load with a single pump solution.

Assuming the GTX were at full load with RTHDRIBL
And the Quad Overclocked to 1.5Vcore Real, while running orthos.

But if it could hold up to that. :shocked:

I'll use the water wetter, and get 2 of these babies right now.

It could just not with optimal temps :)
06-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

And i hate additives, because it reduces water properties. The only additive i even consider is a tiny bit of glycol to help lube my pumps. Water wetter, which is most likely whats in that AC fluid package, will hurt performance.

You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

It isn't water wetter and since it is a proprietary product I don't see them disclosing what's in it. Like I said before it is an anti-corrosive agent and nothing else.
06-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueagent6

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

Are you supplying the hardware? Please PM me for shipping details. It might take a long time to get the testing done right. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.

Like I said before all your absurd demands and flaming just turns people to AC products. Please stop it because it is getting harder and harder for the AC factory to crank out the stuff I want. :ROTF:
06-20-2007, 06:31 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

It isn't water wetter and since it is a proprietary product I don't see them disclosing what's in it. Like I said before it is an anti-corrosive agent and nothing else.

It HAS to be water wetter.

If it isnt, then i seriously wouldnt touch that stuff with a 50foot pole even.

Okey once again i will post this:
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two different metals electrically contact each other and are immersed in an electrolyte. In order for galvanic corrosion to occur, an electrically conductive path and an ionically conductive path are necessary. This effects a galvanic couple where the more active metal corrodes at an accelerated rate and the more noble metal corrodes at a retarded rate. When immersed, neither metal would normally corrode as quickly without the electrically conductive connection (usually via a wire or direct contact). Galvanic corrosion is often utilised in sacrificial anodes. What type of metal(s) to use is readily determined by following the galvanic series. For example, zinc is often used as a sacrificial anode for steel structures, such as pipelines or docked naval ships. Galvanic corrosion is of major interest to the marine industry and also anywhere water can contact pipes or metal structures.

So unless that aqua duct has a sacrafical piece of Zinc in it, it has to be in the additive.

And if its in liquid form, it has to be a water wetter.

http://e30m3performance.com/myths/mo...ter_wetter.htm

Some info on water wetters. This is why i dont like them.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redline3.htm

They also smell really really bad. Hence why people tend to only use them in cars.
06-20-2007, 07:02 PM
lee143

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

Funny, I would say 1 out of 50 loops I see have more than three blocks around here so why ask for more than the norm?

Maybe you have not been around people who use AC gear but NOT ONCE will anyone say it will cool as well as a higher flow system. That is not the point of this product. It will cool very well while having a much higher esthetic quality about it.

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.

It could just not with optimal temps :)

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.
06-20-2007, 07:31 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapeless1

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.

Find it as I don't think she is that bold.
06-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

It HAS to be water wetter.

If it isnt, then i seriously wouldnt touch that stuff with a 50foot pole even.

So unless that aqua duct has a sacrafical piece of Zinc in it, it has to be in the additive.

And if its in liquid form, it has to be a water wetter.

They also smell really really bad. Hence why people tend to only use them in cars.

Do you really think that water wetter is the only stuff in the world that is used as an anti-corrosive agent in water? You may very well be right, but with a 2% mixture this stuff smells like a very light rose water to me.
06-20-2007, 07:41 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapeless1

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.

Good luck. What I said was that you wouldn't see much, if any, difference in the way the computer operates.
06-20-2007, 08:02 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Do you really think that water wetter is the only stuff in the world that is used as an anti-corrosive agent in water? You may very well be right, but with a 2% mixture this stuff smells like a very light rose water to me.

i honestly think it would be a form of water wetter. Or something very cloes to it.

It maybe called something different in germany, but if you boil the chemcials down, it should be simular to a water wetter. :T
06-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Top Nurse

Well I'm fairly sure it isn't water wetter and it doesn't take a chemist to figure this out. IIRC WW is noted to cause failure of certain types of plexi, correct? If so I can absolutely guarantee they aren't going to have WW anywhere within 50 feet of the systems as they have lots of plexi.

You got to quit thinking about automotive solutions...
06-20-2007, 08:23 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Well I'm fairly sure it isn't water wetter and it doesn't take a chemist to figure this out. IIRC WW is noted to cause failure of certain types of plexi, correct? If so I can absolutely guarantee they aren't going to have WW anywhere within 50 feet of the systems as they have lots of plexi.

You got to quit thinking about automotive solutions...

you are aware computer watercooling is a product of automotive cooling.

And i wouldnt give aquapc that much credit. If there mixing metals thinking its okey, i dont think they care about a water wetter breaking plexiglass, when you risk corrosion.

My 2 cents...

I REALLY REALLY WISH THE AQUAPC REP WOULD JUST POST A RESPONSE TO MY QUESTIONS.

No offense top nurse, you arent qualified once again to answer these questions. Your not the vendor, nor have you been given liability of the vendor. So all your responses dont mean much unless your quotting whats printed on there disclamer.
06-20-2007, 08:45 PM
Fairydust

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

i honestly think it would be a form of water wetter. Or something very cloes to it.

It maybe called something different in germany, but if you boil the chemcials down, it should be simular to a water wetter. :T

ACfluid active ingredient.

While i certainly advocate non mixed metal loops some of the posts about mixed metal loops are a bit dramatic. I don't think mixed metal loops are needed or desirable nowadays as almost anything is available in all copper or Delrin versions.

Yet a properly designed and maintained mixed metal loop will not cause any issues, my longest serving loop was in mint condition after 4 years of service with G11 as well as a system that ran for 2 year with G12+. Even without additive and protective coating the aluminum parts of the unit appear rather solid to me, 1 mm+ will will take some time go from cosmetic to structural impact.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.
06-20-2007, 09:11 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairydust

ACfluid active ingredient.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

I see you had better luck than I did in tracking down what it said on the outside of the AC Fluid bottle. I only got as far as the phosphonates and couldn't find anything past a general info blurb.

I see no reason why any reasonable buyer of the AC Aquaduct would have any problems as the manual covers the filling and yearly maintenance cycles. Of course if they start mucking about with Aquaduct like you will see me doing tomorrow then all bets are off. They really crammed a lot of water cooling equipment and electronics into that little space. Reminds me of looking in a military aircraft chassis. ;)

Personally after looking at all the machining and assembly work that went into building it I am tempted to go buy another before they raise the price on these jewels.
06-20-2007, 09:18 PM
Halk

Hmm, does that mean the AC fluid is not a biocide?

I don't want to be keeping an army of pets in my loop :)
06-20-2007, 10:57 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairydust

ACfluid active ingredient.

While i certainly advocate non mixed metal loops some of the posts about mixed metal loops are a bit dramatic. I don't think mixed metal loops are needed or desirable nowadays as almost anything is available in all copper or Delrin versions.

Yet a properly designed and maintained mixed metal loop will not cause any issues, my longest serving loop was in mint condition after 4 years of service with G11 as well as a system that ran for 2 year with G12+. Even without additive and protective coating the aluminum parts of the unit appear rather solid to me, 1 mm+ will will take some time go from cosmetic to structural impact.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

This worries me.

1. its a phosphate based liquid which is recomended to avoid in water cooling if i remember correctly.

2. The additional uses of the chemical even tho its small:
"Phosphonates derived from phosphorous (phosphonic) acid are employed in the applications of scale Inhibition, sequestration, dispersion and corrosion inhibition in addition to the main applications of agricultural chemicals such as fertilizers, pesticides, and soil conditioners."

Thats taken directly from the link.

I think redline is better then that stuff:
http://www.redlineoil.com/msds/17.pdf
06-20-2007, 11:55 PM
Aqua-Pc's

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

ummmm.... i prefer aquapc answer my three questions i posted at top. If they have nothing to hide, they would be more then willing to answer it, like gabe did with the apogeeGTX.

Just to make this 100% crystal clear ill spell this out in bold to avoid further confusion.

Aqua-Pc's = UK Reseller/Distributor of most water cooling parts including Aqua-computer (see below for this) as well as all of the other big name brands EK, Swiftech etc etc etc. I Sell Water-Cooling

Aqua-Computer = German based water-cooling manufacturer making low flow European water-cooling like the Cuplex Di and the Aquaduct. They Make Water-Cooling

If you have questions about the manufacturing process used in Aqua-Computers product why not ask them direct, e-mail Stefan May info@aqua-computer.de and he will gladly answer all your questions.
06-20-2007, 11:58 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

This worries me.

1. its a phosphate based liquid which is recomended to avoid in water cooling if i remember correctly.

2. The additional uses of the chemical even tho its small:
"Phosphonates derived from phosphorous (phosphonic) acid are employed in the applications of scale Inhibition, sequestration, dispersion and corrosion inhibition in addition to the main applications of agricultural chemicals such as fertilizers, pesticides, and soil conditioners."

Thats taken directly from the link.

You must have missed this part:

"Phosphonates offer a wide range of sequestrants to control metal ions in aqueous systems. By forming stable water soluble complexes with multivalent metal ions, phosphonates prevent undesired interaction by blocking normal reactivity of metal ions." IOW, it prevents corrosion in a system that has multiple metals in it.

I think you should look up the words you don't understand. Your link for Water Wetter shows a miscible rating of 25 C. That means the stuff falls out of solution below 25 C. :shocked: That means at under 25 C the Water Wetter chemical is floating around in your loop at full strength. No wonder that :banana::banana::banana::banana: was dangerous to use in water cooling systems.

Young padawan I know it is hard to let go of what you thought works best in an automotive cooling system, but this ain't an automotive cooling system. :)
06-21-2007, 12:17 AM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Good luck. What I said was that you wouldn't see much, if any, difference in the way the computer operates.

TN runs around dissing high flow setups, tries to imply in all of her posts that all AC setups can match the performance of an all star loop.

Now the AC fans backtrack and say it's not meant to perform as well. Their next argument is going to be "well my computer runs don't it?!".

I think the whole mixed metals issue is best summarized by posts made by Marci and Cathar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marci

My stance on the use of aluminium is well-documented both here and on all other sites I frequent... that being, just avoid using it and thus avoid the complications that come alongside it. (ie: Is the anodizing good enough...? Has the enduser done sufficient research to know he HAS to use an additive...? Already there are now two factors out of anyone's control to account for - remove the use of aluminium, remove two uncontrollable factors, and thus remove the need for this entire topic which crops up with monotonous regularity every 6 weeks and has doneso for eons)

If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem, but this whole thread highlights a lack of research, plain and simple. For nearing 10 years it's been common knowledge that you need to run anticorrosive additives alongside aluminium blocks in watercooling systems... to miss this fact simply demonstrates that adequate research prior to the purchase of the parts is lacking. This is what happens when watercooling becomes more mainstream. Parts availability becomes easy, and folks don't bother doing their research first.

This info is WIDELY spread across ALL forums that I frequent... it is covered in every watercooling guide I've ever read, and in more or less every watercooling sections' sticky by default... it's almost the first rule of watercooling it's that old.

Ignore the terminology I use in this next sentence, it isn't meant to be insulting... it's just a suitable way of phrasing it and I can't be assed to think of a more P/C way of saying it...

Manufacturers cannot account for the idiot factor (aka net-clue-factor to coin Cathar's way of saying it). If you can't account for the idiot factor, don't build items that an idiot cannot use correctly.

To release alu blocks is milking the market. Manufacturers know there is a HIGH risk of that aluminium block getting destroyed by what I'd say would be a good 50% of the watercooling market (the chunk that don't do their research and just dive in head first). This destruction isn't covered by warranty, so another sale is milked from the equation when that customer requires a replacement. A responsible manufacturer would include a note in with every block clearly stating that an anticorrosive additive MUST be used.

Telling people it's just fine is just endorsing Koolance/Aqua Computer's desire to milk the market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

...

I wholly agree with Marci's statements. Using aluminium is just a recipe for disaster. Yes, an informed customer will take the steps to ensure that it's not a problem.

Being a bit of a perfectionist though, there is actually a problem with the approach of demanding additives to protect the system. All additives decrease the thermal properties of water, and by the time we're talking about enough additives to protect aluminium in a copper system, we're actually talking about a significant performance reduction.

Aluminium doesn't belong in a copper system for the reasons that Marci listed, and it doesn't belong in any performance system either.

Stew.
06-21-2007, 12:41 AM
Top Nurse

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts? :shrug:

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.
06-21-2007, 12:53 AM
ranker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts? :shrug:

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.

You quote others when they express the same views, yet when I do the same, especially for people who are proven contributors and gurus within watercooling, it's called parroting? Nice try on the spin job. I guess I should ask anyone notice her flip flop on the performance of AC products? :shrug:

I've purchase and used a Koolance Exos before. I regret that mistake along with the Zalman Reserator 1 that came subsequently. Will I go back to aluminum radiators and components? Nope. I didn't enjoy the 30/70 mix I was directed to use with the Exos accompanied with the high temps and high prices, nor the corrosion on my copper blocks due to my Reserator. I don't need to buy $560 external solution the size of a statue to possibly experience the same results, especially whose warranty is limited along with the return conditions.

Why should I or any other sane individual try a $560 monstrosity, especially when it comes with basically no warranty, no published manufacturing/technical data on this supposed anodizing technique (at least Swiftech stood up and released the specs on their plating process, btw anodizing means squat when all it takes is a scratch), and from all the lessons people have learned in the past about mixing metals?

People started asking for results after many posts by yourself about how AC can run neck and neck with the top of the line high flow systems and now we see backtracking on what its supposed to handle? Now I see that it's only meant to handle a CPU block and possibly one or two other blocks? at the price of $560?

It's a niche product indeed.
06-21-2007, 01:03 AM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

This piece of hardware is truly incredible. I actually am in the middle taking it apart to see how they crammed so much hardware in this thing. Only complaint is I would like to have no pump included so it can really shine. That is my "plan b", to remove the existing pump and introduce a DDC1.

I got it opened up now and I think the pump will physically fit, but I'm not sure yet whether it can be interfaced to the rest of the system due to routing constraints. Pics tomorrow. :D
06-21-2007, 01:15 AM
Angry_Steel

Heres an idea after reading through this nonsense, just drop a Swifty GTX and an Aqua block into some saltwater and run a charge through it. Then all the Aluminum phobics can say SEEEEE I told you so when they both disintegrate. But since thats a little extreme, lets analyze a few things.

1. "If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem."

The info on the dangers of using ALU in a loop is covered almost anywhere you look, and most of the threads you post in are ones where its not some noob questioning whether or not to get a Aqua. You mostly jump in threads with people who already know the risk and CHOOSE to buy this stuff. Hence you are just trying to forcefeed people your reality and I hardly think they like chewing on it.

2. Swiftech made before, and is making again ALU/CU blocks.

So what category do they fall in? Im sorry but I just dont see how you can rant on one aluminum and praise the other. But hey, one has better temps so it must be ok, and it comes with a 5 year warranty also you can do flexible things with it. Is that warranty any better than any other when it comes right down to it? Does it cover possible damage to your system? I highly doubt it.

A recommendation is one thing, this is just retarded and old.
06-21-2007, 05:29 AM
MotF Bane

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=147847

Aluminum + Copper = Green ****

Enjoy.
06-21-2007, 06:34 AM
septim

ranker, lets just say that we'd wait for her to finish the setup and run some test. and post comments afterwards...

in my book its better not to temp faith with mixing alu and cu...
and not all new wc users would remember to put in anti corrosion
06-21-2007, 07:19 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aqua-Pc's

Just to make this 100% crystal clear ill spell this out in bold to avoid further confusion.

Aqua-Pc's = UK Reseller/Distributor of most water cooling parts including Aqua-computer (see below for this) as well as all of the other big name brands EK, Swiftech etc etc etc. I Sell Water-Cooling

Aqua-Computer = German based water-cooling manufacturer making low flow European water-cooling like the Cuplex Di and the Aquaduct. They Make Water-Cooling

If you have questions about the manufacturing process used in Aqua-Computers product why not ask them direct, e-mail Stefan May info@aqua-computer.de and he will gladly answer all your questions.

I AM SORRY!!!

i got the two confused. I thought you were the vendor.

i humbly appologize aqua-pc

At any rate, lets just wait and see the results. I decided when i do this, im just gonna have seth just custom me something really nice with the money i was intending on dropping this setup into. And i think it would be cheaper and much more effective. Also i can skip mixing metals completely.
06-21-2007, 07:45 AM
Aqua-Pc's

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

I AM SORRY!!!

i got the two confused. I thought you were the vendor.

i humbly appologize aqua-pc

Don't worry about it happens all the time :rolleyes:
06-21-2007, 12:27 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Are you licensed by AC to repair or modify there units?

Not yet, but give me a while... :D
06-21-2007, 02:10 PM
Grinch

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranker

TN runs around dissing high flow setups, tries to imply in all of her posts that all AC setups can match the performance of an all star loop.

Now the AC fans backtrack and say it's not meant to perform as well. Their next argument is going to be "well my computer runs don't it?!".

I think the whole mixed metals issue is best summarized by posts made by Marci and Cathar.

Telling people it's just fine is just endorsing Koolance/Aqua Computer's desire to milk the market.

I feel 100% confident in what Marci & Cathar have to say about watercooling!:up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts? :shrug:

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.

I have to agree with ranker 100%...Marci & Cathar have probably forgotten more about watercooling than we will EVER know. I take what they say as LAW!:up:
06-21-2007, 02:43 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grinch

I feel 100% confident in what Marci & Cathar have to say about watercooling!

I have to agree with ranker 100%...Marci & Cathar have probably forgotten more about watercooling than we will EVER know. I take what they say as LAW!:up:

I guess the difference between me and you is that I'm not a => http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...c/friesian.jpg

Remember what happens to sheep? http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...on-ewe_big.jpg

All kidding aside I listen and read a lot of stuff. I then digest it and decide if it fits for me. If it doesn't fit I toss it. If it does fit I use it. Most of the times I use a little here and there to come up with something that works for me. The problem here is that you guys are using other peoples opinions and treating them as facts, which is why the pic of the sheep is up at the top. :yepp:
06-21-2007, 02:51 PM
EnJoY

I used to purge my stomach after reading the garbage Top Nurse and RickCain would post in the watercooling section on [H]ardForums. I basically stopped reading that section. I left it as, if they wish to use inferior performance products in their loops, let them do it, and I still don't have a problem with that. However, the spreading of ignorance such as "galvanic corrosion isn't a problem with mixed metals", or "the larger tubing performance advantage is false information" is enough to make me ask if I could please buy some of whatever you two have been smoking? :cool:

Anyway, sweet looking product. Certainly surpasses any other external watercooling solution in terms of aesthetics that I've seen. I'd be interested to see how it compares to a Koolance Exos 2 for example, and of course to a top internal loop. I'd also like to see what the measured flow coming out of that thing is like.
06-21-2007, 02:56 PM
Grinch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

I guess the difference between me and you is that I'm not a => http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...c/friesian.jpg

Remember what happens to sheep? http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...on-ewe_big.jpg

All kidding aside I listen and read a lot of stuff. I then digest it and decide if it fits for me. If it doesn't fit I toss it. If it does fit I use it. Most of the times I use a little here and there to come up with something that works for me. The problem here is that you guys are using other peoples opinions and treating them as facts, which is why the pic of the sheep is up at the top. :yepp:

I am not saying you don't know your stuff....;)

However when Marci or Cathar have something to say it is usually backed up with ALOT of data that confirms their findings..:up:

And as far as myself being a sheep...I guess you could also say that Marci & Cathar are my sheep herders...:rofl:
06-21-2007, 03:07 PM
calvin

Been water cooling back since the days the Maze3 was the newest kid on the block. (pun time :yepp: ) Lot of the folks engaged in this mix metal debate probably weren't even born then LOL.

So anyway started out with a submerged pump/res combo, a quite common arrangement back in the days before water cooling became mainstream. The res that housed the AC pump (had to be plugged into the wall :eek: ) was a large rectangular box affair - in aluminum. Got it from BE cooling - old timers may remember. We're talking a sizable chunk of aluminum. It was a great unit, totally silent, incredible easy to to fill and bleed. The maze 3 in turn was a copper block. Real museum piece now. Ran that pump setup for years. Never experienced an issue with corrosion. The res did have a decent coating, and always ran a mix of distilled and 10% automotive antifreeze. Anyway, IME mixing the two does not necessarily equal the end of the world. With the proper precautions it appears the two can peacefully coexist.
06-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grinch

However when Marci or Cathar have something to say it is usually backed up with ALOT of data that confirms their findings.

I totally agree with you, but the stuff Ranker keeps posting is OPINION.
06-21-2007, 03:32 PM
Grinch

and we all know what opinions are like....*-)
06-21-2007, 03:37 PM
serialk11r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

I totally agree with you, but the stuff Ranker keeps posting is OPINION.

Not exactly...well he DID take over my old job for me, and I'm quite happy with that (no offense), I don't respond to "help me spec parts" threads anymore :P and there isn't anything wrong with saying the D-tek Fuzion is good or anything, is there?
06-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Not exactly...well he DID take over my old job for me, and I'm quite happy with that (no offense), I don't respond to "help me spec parts" threads anymore :P and there isn't anything wrong with saying the D-tek Fuzion is good or anything, is there?

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.
06-21-2007, 03:49 PM
Grinch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.

I don't think Marci & Cathars remarks about aluminum & copper mixing is an opinion...but more or less fact:up:
06-21-2007, 03:50 PM
serialk11r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Nurse

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.

Well yes...I've been trying not to comment on this but oh well..
Yes there are plenty of ways to prevent damage to your system from galvanic corrosion. But people just don't like aluminum lol. Look at the apogee GTX. It has military spec nickel plating AS WELL AS a SECOND layer of zinc cobalt plating (also military spec). And people were whining about that. But yes, I think Cathar and Marci's opinions are legitimate, I mean we do have lots of people who are totally unaware of a lot of things, who go to the store, see this "thermaltake liquid cooling system", think its cool, and buy it...that's what causes problems. Thermaltake aluminum radiator. "high performance" ring a bell?

ranker just let them be, let them buy their AC stuff, let them use their aluminum if they want. Just get off each other's throats...
06-21-2007, 04:08 PM
NaeKuh

Well if your happy with your 540 dollar corrosion bucket.

then theres not much more i can say is there?

Anyhow im going to stop posting until you post results. This is getting nowhere.
06-21-2007, 04:13 PM
sick_g4m3r

Whats an ETA on the temps? hurry up!!!!
06-21-2007, 04:32 PM
Top Nurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by sick_g4m3r

Whats an ETA on the temps? hurry up!!!!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ileys/read.gif (See post number 10)
06-21-2007, 04:38 PM
Halk

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

I ran this for over a month and find about a 1c difference between my old loop. Overclocking of my e6600 remained the same so I would say it works just fine. The test will be when I get my second 8800 and plan to use it on that loop. Since it has a 120.3 radiator I would say it will do a pretty good job of cooling. I have already seen loops with six blocks with this device and it maintained good operating temps.

Old loop (well now current)

DDC1 w/ Alphacool top
6mm id / 8mm compression fittings
Dtek Fuzion block

The Aquaduct was running plug n cool connectors with the same Fuzion block and 6mm id / 8mm tubing. All I can say is it clearly is the sexiest peice of external hardware available today.

This is the only real information on temps so far - it's far from conclusive, but it is quite positive.

I'm assuming that it was 1 degree _WORSE_ than the DDC. 1 degree isn't a great deal when it's more of a plug and play device. I'm sure the keg doesn't sacrifice 1 degree, but I think this unit looks a fair bit better - if it's to your taste.

So, I think all we could really conclude is that it's not a complete stinker, but way more information is needed to find out if it's going to satisfy someone looking for the best OC from their CPU.

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:30 AM.

XtremeSystems