2 x 2 Gig Sticks, Mushkin PC8500 - The Real Deal.

4 gig sets of ram have been around for awhile now, but so far theres been no real high performance 4 gig set of ram.

well, Mushkin Changed all that recently with thier new 4 gig sets of PC 6400 and PC 8500.

this is a preview of the 2 x 2 gig set of Mushkins PC8500.

testing is just 1 days worth, and initial impressions.

ram is rated for cas 5-4-4-12 at 2.3 volts and 1066 mhz.
the ram is binned using the P5B deluxe.
I do not yet know what type of chip is on this set.

tests were done all so far at 2.30 - 2.32 volts.
P5B deluxe. Bios 1004.
Initial Results so far, are with 32 bit version of windows and only sees 2.93 gigs of ram. I still have about 50 gigs of stuff to back up before installing Vista or XP64.
can't make up my mind which one I hate the least... so I dont know what to try first haha... :p:
(ok I dont hate vista, I just wish drivers were better for it)

1 thing, dont ask me to push 2.6 volts or something into this stuff.
given how expensive this ram is, I really dont want to take any chances at killing it. 2.45 is about my limit for being comfortable.
you wanna see high voltages, do it yourself.

Observations.

theres literally no difference in stability from cas 4 to 5 or 6.
if it can do cas 5-6-6 at 1.1 ghz, it will do cas 5-4-4 just fine.

Ram is very very sensitive to Tras.
low tras always = no boot.
low tras for this ram, is below 12 when above 1 ghz on the ram.
around 900 mhz or less, low tras would be 8.

Write speeds are best set to 11, not 10.
write to precharge delayed- 11, and write to read delayed - 11, will do alot better for stability, then 10 will.
the P5B deluxe defaults to 10-10-10-11.
with this ram, 10-11-10-11 works best.

the combination of Writes at 11, and slightly higher tras (15 versus 12) can easily get you well above 1.1 ghz, stable at cas 5-4-4 at 2.3 to 2.35 volts.

the ram really doesnt seem to need extra voltage to OC high, and is exceptionally stable so far.

the "OC limits" are very very sudden.
for instance. for cas 3-3-3 overclocking 366 = prime stable. 370 = benchable. 375 = boots but no loading windows.
total leway from stable, to unstable - 9 mhz.

anyways, later today, I will have something 64 bit installed...
god I dont want to do that.
I am just gonna scavenge a spare hard drive from one of my other PC's.
hate to wipe out a good solid OS.

Top OC so far.

1160 mhz, stable enough for short runs of super pi and such.
will try cas 5-5-4 or 5-5-5 next to see if I can get this stable.

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=181723

Wow :slobber: Incredible memory!

Damn.. ok i need to get a pair from the office.

I want to see some 8 GIG tests with four sticks, I love my Mushkin Redlines but will ebay them in a second just to have 8gig with Vista 64:)

Mushkin link.

One retailer has the following ad copy/description (probably from Mushkin marketing)

"The eXtreme Performance 4GB XP2-8500 kit (DDR2-1066) is the first 4GB kit to be rated at 1066MHz.

Designed for the most demanding enthusiasts, the XP2-8500 is specified for operation at 1066MHz, 5-4-4-12 latencies. Each kit is tested beyond its rated
specification to ensure the overclocking headroom and quality that Mushkin customers expect.

The XP2-8500, like all other Muskhin HP2 and XP2 memory products, features Enhanced Performance Profiles, which simplify the overclocking process for both beginners and experts. These kits also ship with Mushkin’s innovative FrostByte™ heatspreader, which utilizes more surface area and highly conductive thermal transfer materials for lower temperature operation, improved overclocking performance, and longer life."

Nice.. how's the heat ouput @2.35v in memtest test #5 loop etc ?

Wow, great Mhz on those 2gb sticks :up:

Have you tried max 4-4-4-x speed? :)

Quote:

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Nice.. how's the heat ouput @2.35v in memtest test #5 loop etc ?

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seems we think alike.
test 5 is my first "quick" test.
runs very cool to the touch.

Quote:

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Have you tried max 4-4-4-x speed?

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highest I tried so far was 900 mhz.
8 x 450 at 1:1.
but I have put only about 5% of my effort into cas 4 overclocking so far.
almost all my time has been spent on cas 5 so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

seems we think alike.
test 5 is my first "quick" test.
runs very cool to the touch.

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heh... yup it's the first thing i do with new memory :D

I plan to get 4 of these sticks and I need some test with 4 sticks on c2d motherboards.
Mushkin reps says that the 975x may not be able to hold them at decent speeds...
http://forums.mushkin.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4254

look at my sig: I may have to buy a different motherboard until proven otherwise :(

Thanks for the heads up, very nice product indeed. I have been buying 2x2 kits for a few weeks now as the prices have come down to affordable.

wow this is a little unexpected

fantastic RAM there

please try to bench some 32M if you still have the RAM

it would be nice to see what speed advantage you'd get if any by going from 2GB kit at same speed to 4GB kit :)

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please try to bench some 32M if you still have the RAM

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I only did 1 32M so far, cas 5-5-5-15 at 2.3 volts, 2:3 ratio.
my board sucks with the 4:5 ratio so I really cant do much testing with that ratio, and since my CPU is limited to the 8 multiplier tops, my CPU speed isnt all that high.
but the ram handled this early test, with ease.

have you got any 2gb KITS running at those speeds with that CPU with a 32M run for comparison

yep, got a few 2 gig kits, in fact... I bought a 2 gig kit of Mushkin 8500 about 2 weeks ago from newegg, that does 1200 mhz just fine.

eric- please go on msn to chat with me...

tom

I would like to see stability under Pi, memtest and prime95/orthos with 8 gig loaded up and a 64 bit OS.

Subscribed.. Ordered!!

Very impressive. I wonder what chips these use... ;)

see how tight you can get timings for 400-500 MHz

now running XP64.

still dont really want to go back to vista yet.
but I still left a partition available for it...

same OC's possible with XP64 as with XP32.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

now running XP64.

still dont really want to go back to vista yet.
but I still left a partition available for it...

same OC's possible with XP64 as with XP32.

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i think Vista also messes up your MBR for XP :( so might be useless on the same hard drive

Very nice results and thanks!

Very nice results, I'm interested in the chips they use.

Any idea what chips are used ?

Any idea when we will see 4GB memory kits here in UK? Atm the only kit I can find is a Kingston 2 x 2GB kit for £352, which is still on preorder:S... so hoping that there are other choices

Very nice results, Kunaak

thanks for sharing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darklord

Any idea what chips are used ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stapler

Very nice results, I'm interested in the chips they use.

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I'm inclined to let Mushkin keep their competitive advantage/IC secrets and not push or prod for answers. They'll come soon enough. No doubt they spent a lot of time trying to get the jump on others working on 2x2gb sets for the enthusiast market, so hopefully they're are rewarded with some nice sales numbers by early adopters.

Looks like the predictions of incremental gains in 2x2gb performance (modeled after the 2x1gb history) have been proven wrong. I think its safe to say Mushkin has blown away expectations with the release of these sticks. K ... that's enough :kissbutt: how about a coupon for XS members Duonger?. :hehe:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gundamit

... that's enough :kissbutt: how about a coupon for XS members Duonger?. :hehe:

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here you go.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=116863

been there for about 6 months. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gundamit

I'm inclined to let Mushkin keep their competitive advantage/IC secrets and not push or prod for answers. They'll come soon enough. No doubt they spent a lot of time trying to get the jump on others working on 2x2gb sets for the enthusiast market, so hopefully they're are rewarded with some nice sales numbers by early adopters.

Looks like the predictions of incremental gains in 2x2gb performance (modeled after the 2x1gb history) have been proven wrong. I think its safe to say Mushkin has blown away expectations with the release of these sticks. K ... that's enough :kissbutt: how about a coupon for XS members Duonger?. :hehe:

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LOL ROFL

yes it will come out. our esteem competitors already bought modules from our website and it is prob already in their labs....so soon you will see modules from them. LOL... :slapass:

Coupon codes

5% off=ASSIST-CD

10$ off = ASSIST-CRIS

Are these real coupon codes lol I just tried them for fun and they don't seem to work :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

LOL ROFL

yes it will come out. our esteem competitors already bought modules from our website and it is prob already in their labs....so soon you will see modules from them. LOL... :slapass:

Coupon codes

5% off=ASSIST-CD

10$ off = ASSIST-CRIS

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Codes definitively work -- gave 5% off the 2gb kit, bringing it to about 490 vs 545 ** I think there might be a minimum purchase value tho.

EDIT: Just tested and the ASSIST-CRIS code isn't exactly 10$... it depends on the item value.
xtremesystems.com code works, and seems to give the most discount. ASSIST-CD is exactly the same as "xtremesystems.com" from what I can see.

http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/...ail.asp?id=556

all the codes work just fine for me.

the XS code brings you down to $490 total.
$55 off the web price.

if thats not hooking you guys up, I dont know what is. :)

$420 (w/ discount) for the 800Mhz kit seems like a very good price for 2x2GB CAS4. This might be ideal for the new Vista 64 E6600 gaming system I'm building (Asus Commando mobo). I was planning on getting 2x1gb Buffalo Firestix to hold me over until 2x2gb kits improved... I guess they have!

The codes works fine :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

yes it will come out. our esteem competitors already bought modules from our website and it is prob already in their labs....so soon you will see modules from them. LOL... :slapass:

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nothing wrong with a bit of competition :D
may i venture a guess? D9HNL :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

nothing wrong with a bit of competition :D
may i venture a guess? D9HNL :toast:

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i dont even know. but personally im annoyed cuz this is the 4th time these 3 companies have bought our parts and then released a similar item.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

i dont even know. but personally im annoyed cuz this is the 4th time these 3 companies have bought our parts and then released a similar item.

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then overlabel the chips with "LOL" :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

i dont even know. but personally im annoyed cuz this is the 4th time these 3 companies have bought our parts and then released a similar item.

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Care to tell us which companies?

I'd like to see the companies who are too lame to find good ICs on their own.
I'm sure we already know two of them though...

Damn, price increase $13.:(

hmmmm well.. several of our competitors now know what chips we are using and have contacted our supplier and thus pushed the prices of the chips up..... sorry we tried to keep it low key for as long as we could.

its only a matter of time before all the copycats have a version out now.
seems unavoidable really.
you guys do the work to find good chips.
someone comes along and copies it so they dont have to do anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

hmmmm well.. several of our competitors now know what chips we are using and have contacted our supplier and thus pushed the prices of the chips up..... sorry we tried to keep it low key for as long as we could.

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OMG, price is $654 now :slapass:

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Originally Posted by jinzhanhua

OMG, price is $654 now :slapass:

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wow..:eek: .... didntk now it would go up again.. i know someone (an individual) bought 125kits from us today and a reseller placed a 200kits order. and lead time for more chips is over 1 week cuz A and B company bought chips today as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

wow..:eek: .... didntk now it would go up again.. i know someone (an individual) bought 125kits from us today and a reseller placed a 200kits order. and lead time for more chips is over 1 week cuz A and B company bought chips today as well.

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Too bad news for me!
I am building new pc, motherboard ordered, ASUS ROG 680I.
I want to place mushkin memory order after motherboard arrive.
But the price of memory...:mad:

$654?? Yeah, make it hurt baby!
Of course the value is realized over the longer term.
My nf7/xp-m box is still running mushkin level II bh5 sticks and they are STILL brutal to this day.
I honestly can't recall what I paid for them at the time (but I'm thinking it was a lot ...)

Soon as they come back down I'm selling my 4 gig of Mushkin and grabbing 8 gig. ;)

let me call the big boss tomorrow and ask him if there is anything that can be done. give me a day.

What applications are people seeing real performance gains with 4Gb?

Or more to the point, what applications will benefit from more than 4GB?

The principal advantage of 2x2GB kits (so far) is that you're not using all 4 slots. I don't see a cost or performance advantage, at least not yet. These kits are somewhat expensive (on a per-MB basis). They are fast, but it's been documented that 4x1GB performance is at least as good. Besides DDR3 is around the corner, so do I want to invest the potential capacity for 8GB of DDR2?

Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by EMan

Besides DDR3 is around the corner, so do I want to invest the potential capacity for 8GB of DDR2?

Am I missing something?

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yes.

no ones making you buy it.
no ones trying to talk you into buying it.

if you buy it, and dont need it, you can always sell it.

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

no ones making you buy it.
no ones trying to talk you into buying it.

if you buy it, and dont need it, you can always sell it.

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Sorry, didn't mean to come across the wrong way. I'm just trying to gauge the value of these kits. I'm not an expert. I'm building a new Vista-based system. These kits intrigued me very much. Thanks! :)

Love to try 4 of these sticks with server2003 standard on the desktop. I THINK server recognizes 8 gigs but I'd have to double check.
What am I thinking-I don't need 8 gigs-sheesh!

@Kunaak-How's the weather in Juneau? Entering breakup (finally) here in Eagle River. That last cold snap (which lasted for like 4 weeks) was really starting to get the better of my general attitude!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

let me call the big boss tomorrow and ask him if there is anything that can be done. give me a day.

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Any news from big boss?
Thanks!

$665.97 now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EMan

What applications are people seeing real performance gains with 4Gb?

Or more to the point, what applications will benefit from more than 4GB?

Am I missing something?

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I run nuclear simulations and I see a 23% boost in application speed when modeling fast neutron fission reactions with 8 gig vs. 4 gig.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Speederlander

I run nuclear simulations and I see a 23% boost in application speed when modeling fast neutron fission reactions with 8 gig vs. 4 gig.

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Well that settles that! We'll all need to order 8 gigs right away :toast2:

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Originally Posted by jinzhanhua

$665.97 now.

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DAMMIT!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

nothing wrong with a bit of competition :D
may i venture a guess? D9HNL :toast:

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Are D9HNL good? Not that I have any :D

Review

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1076

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

Review

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1076

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NEWEGG bought 200 kits of 4G DDR2 1066?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146688

I received my kit today. they run 900 4-3-3-6. 1000-1066 5-4-4-12 on my EVGA 680i. They do not seem to do much more than advertised, very stable at or a little above spec. I can get much faster and tighter with 4x1gb. I do not have any screenies and havent really given them the tweek time they deserve, the speeds will probably increase. My time atm is devoted to 6GB. These Mushkins w/ 2 x 1gb ddr-1200. So far i am very pleased with those results. If anybody is interested in my 6GB numbers, let me know, I will start a new thread with detailed info & SS. Also let me know what test/benchmarks you would like to see.

Xp64.

900 mhz, cas 4-3-3-6.

booted at cas 4-3-3-8.
a few of the write, and read settings, and alittle of the tras were tweaked.
experimenting with the sub timings and how they effect super pi (no real difference :( but still testing)

I am just impressed at how easily this is doing 900 at cas 4-3-3 @ 2.4 volts only.

Memset is just used to see how tweakable the ram is.
honestly so far, if I didnt know this was 4 gigs of ram, I'd say its easily as tweakable as a good set of 2 gig ram.

32M test.

simple test.

I couldnt maintain stability when heavily tweaked.
so I rebooted, and this the untweaked 32M run from 3.6 ghz and cas 4-3-3-8 at 900 mhz.

not bad for 4 gigs of ram. :D

How's 8GB on P965 or 680i boards? :stick:

More OC's.

2.44 volts - cas 5-3-3-8 at 1000 Mhz :D

2.7 volts - cas 5-5-5-15 at 1195 mhz. :woot:

2.8 - suicide shot = 1200 mhz. (not even remotely stable, just had to do it)

1170 + mhz is really easy at cas 5-5-5 and 2.5+ volts.
possible to hit about 1150 mhz stable at much less voltage, like 2.3.

going up on voltage, doesnt get you much, like for every .1 volt I do, i get maybe 2-3 mhz more.

optimal voltage seems to be around 2.3 to 2.45 volts.
at about 2.5 volts, the ram is pretty much near its limit, however the more voltage you add to it, the more it responds, so it does act like D9 in some ways, but you dont get the kinda returns in Overclockablity that your do by adding extra voltage, as you would with say D9GMH.
but its definatly a "Benchers" ram. thats for sure.

so its got all ranges coverd really.

high Mhz, and low cas, and high voltage, and low voltage OC'ing.
so far, its a real good all around ram, for just about anyone, gamers and overclockers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BRiT

How's 8GB on P965 or 680i boards? :stick:

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dont be doing the poking stick thing to me, if I had 8 gigs to try, I would.
ask someone that actually has that much ram.

well... that much of this ram.
other 4 gig kits dont seem to stand a chance at coming anywhere near this ram...

well, not until they release thier copies of this ram, with thier lables on it :p:

Back in the day, the benefit of running 2x1GB sticks vs. 4x512MB sticks was that you could run the 2x1 sticks at 1T (at least on AMD).

Can this RAM run 1T with tight timings at around 900MHz on the 680i? If so, this might be the icing!

I assume that 1T is impossible with 4 sticks on the 680i?

you can barely run 2x1gb at 1t at 900mhz with a 680i. I have 6gb installed now, so after this major file transfer i may give 1t a shot with the 4gb of this mushkin and i'll try 6gb as well.

cas 5-3-3-8 at 1 ghz, cas 4-3-3-8 at 900 and 1200 mhz with 4 gigs doesnt impress anyone?

tough crowd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

cas 5-3-3-8 at 1 ghz, cas 4-3-3-8 at 900 and 1200 mhz with 4 gigs doesnt impress anyone?

tough crowd.

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It does for me! :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nugzo

you can barely run 2x1gb at 1t at 900mhz with a 680i. I have 6gb installed now, so after this major file transfer i may give 1t a shot with the 4gb of this mushkin and i'll try 6gb as well.

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Did you have a chance to try 1T with these sticks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

cas 5-3-3-8 at 1 ghz, cas 4-3-3-8 at 900 and 1200 mhz with 4 gigs doesnt impress anyone?

tough crowd.

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let's see C3 plz :)

even on XS the number of people needing 8GB is rather low
and 4GB can still be done with 4*1GB
I'm doing 850MHz 3-4-4-8 @ 2.33V, with 4Gb, right now :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

Did you have a chance to try 1T with these sticks?

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Not yet. I've been tryin to get them to work for me with vista 64bit. They work fine alone and with 2 other gigs with 32bit. Vista 64 works fine with 4x1 but not 2x2. I guess i'm just gonna have to run my 4x1. I can get way better timings and mhz with those anyway. 1066@4-3-3-8. Anybody else here have any success with these mushkin 2x2 and vista 64? if so, what mobo are you using? Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

cas 5-3-3-8 at 1 ghz, cas 4-3-3-8 at 900 and 1200 mhz with 4 gigs doesnt impress anyone?

tough crowd.

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You got me impressed. These are the first IC's to pull off 500MHz tRCD 3 with such "low" voltage since fatties. And they're 2x2GB.

One thing I'd like to see is if 2x2GB benches faster at the same speeds/timings than 2x1GB as was the case with 2x1 vs 2x512. (Not a request to you, just the first thing that popped into my head seeing speeds like these)

Very nice speeds :)

1200 on a 2x2 kit is sick...


i can't beleive you already put 2.8v in them, you must be crazy with a kit that expensive.

See if they will do 3-2-2 at 350-400mhz with those volts :eek:

I was gonna buy these till the price shot up.

intial super low latency test.

2.35 volts.
this wasnt even difficult to do.
gonna try some more.

ok, after some quick testing, heres what I came up with.

cas 3-2-2-8 possible up to 333 mhz, but you will need to add more then 2.45 volts to do this.
300 mhz at cas 3-2-2-8 is easy at 2.35 volts.

cas 3-3-3-8 is possible up to 375, but you will need more then 2.4 volts to do this.
350 at cas 3-3-3-8 is easy at 2.35 volts.

cas 3-4-4-8 offers no additional overclocking, just like I first observed in my first post, when I said, cas was the main thing that gets this ram stable.
ras to cas, doesnt seem to effect how this ram OC's much.

for instance, cas 3-4-4 at 400 = no boot.
cas 4-3-3 works just fine up to 450 mhz without much trouble.
so its not the TRP or ras to cas holding the ram back, but the cas.

but personally, I could careless, I'd rather run cas 4-3-3 stable at 400, then cas 3-4-4.

Anybody using this stuff on a 680i with vista 64?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duonger

It does for me! :banana:

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Quite impressed here! Thats just sick.

Very nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nugzo

Anybody using this stuff on a 680i with vista 64?

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I second this question

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nugzo

Anybody using this stuff on a 680i with vista 64?

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You can't get your 2x2 working on your EVGA? Have you tried the P27 bios? I hope you get it going... this is the combo I'm considering.

No, but its workin fine 1x4. I have another 680i (A1) I am going to try today, incase this particular board is buggy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

You can't get your 2x2 working on your EVGA? Have you tried the P27 bios? I hope you get it going... this is the combo I'm considering.

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It's workin now. Noob move on my end. I didn't install the 680i chipset drivers. Up in running with 6gb now @ 900 4-3-3-6. I could probably get a lil more mhz out of the ram, but this is my sweet spot at 1800Qfsb. If i start goin higher with the mem, i start losin bandwidth. The same wit 2,4 or 6gb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

1 thing, dont ask me to push 2.6 volts or something into this stuff.
given how expensive this ram is, I really dont want to take any chances at killing it. 2.45 is about my limit for being comfortable.
you wanna see high voltages, do it yourself.

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And we didn't even have to ask!
Figured you wouldn't be able to resist.

Nice results. ;)

yeah.... its kinda unavoidable.
I been at XS too long.
the other day, my friend and me bought some cheap X850XT's for $55 at newegg... the day I got them, I took them apart, and improved thier cooling... then began testing each card individually, for clock speeds...
by the time he came over a few hours later to get his card, I asked him...

"you want to flash your card to a platinum edition?".

he says he's never seen me get anything and not overclock it.

wow!!!! amazing ram, high high clocks for 2x2gb :)

...If they stop raising the price!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kunaak

yeah.... its kinda unavoidable.
I been at XS too long.
the other day, my friend and me bought some cheap X850XT's for $55 at newegg... the day I got them, I took them apart, and improved thier cooling... then began testing each card individually, for clock speeds...
by the time he came over a few hours later to get his card, I asked him...

"you want to flash your card to a platinum edition?".

he says he's never seen me get anything and not overclock it.

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LOL... yeah, I'm the same way... I can't buy a toaster with out tweaking it! :p:

Now guys... seriously, can we see some 1T testing on 680i with this kit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nugzo

It's workin now. Noob move on my end. I didn't install the 680i chipset drivers. Up in running with 6gb now @ 900 4-3-3-6. I could probably get a lil more mhz out of the ram, but this is my sweet spot at 1800Qfsb. If i start goin higher with the mem, i start losin bandwidth. The same wit 2,4 or 6gb.

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Nice... how about 1T? :stick:

I received this kit the other day, and it's clocking far better than I expected. 600MHz stable at only 2.5v was possible. The FSB had it's voltages pumped up in order to keep it stable.

http://deathspawner.net/etcetera/pic...2.5V_thumb.png

Is anyone else with a retail kit hitting these clocks stable?

I posted my results with this memory on the DFI NF680i LT my Blog.

800MHz 4-3-3 1T (9+hrs PRIME stable) beat 1120MHz 5-5-5 2T both at 2.3V!

I've got a 2 x 2 GB kit of the Mushkin HP 6400 (800Mhz) I'm reviewing. They are currently doing 902 Mhz 5-4-4-12 @ 2.25v memtest stable on P5B Deluxe 1004 bios. Going to push them higher but just installed them and loaded Vista x64, not a problem - just make sure to enable memory remap so the OS can see 4096MB. Someone asked about Vista x64 earlier - yes they work fine with Vista X64.