For those of you that have lapped your core 2 duo IHS, could you post some pictures? before during and after maybe so i can get an idea of what to expect when i get mine.:D
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For those of you that have lapped your core 2 duo IHS, could you post some pictures? before during and after maybe so i can get an idea of what to expect when i get mine.:D
I'll start: :)
During lapping:
http://i18.tinypic.com/42xs584.jpg
Finished result:
http://i5.tinypic.com/2n18dnt.jpg
your pics arent loading unfortunatly..:(Quote:
Originally Posted by pH(x)
Damn www.uploader.ws! Well, fixed, though through a slower host.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
And btw I don't believe in using metal polish, makes your processor look pretty, but you are in fact doing harm to your thermal conductivity.
By applying a solvent like Brasso to your processor's IHS -- more chemical molecules are put between your heatsink of choice and the IHS, so by polishing and adding chemicals to the surface you are realistically hurting your heat transfer.
Here is my 6600.
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5...lpix130js4.jpg
mmmm all these mirror finishes :D
Same here. Got a 10C decrease in idle temp and 5-6C got load temps on my e6700.Quote:
Originally Posted by pH(x)
These results make gets me tempted to lap mine. Beautiful work guys, always love shiny things!
Love the shiney finishes, what makes me wonder though is why don't people like Intel actually ensure that the IHS is flat, after all they are the 1's concerned with heat output and effective cooling. Can't be that hard can it, just need to mill it flat somewhere in their production cycle.
My gawd!!! :eek2: How long did it take you to do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dani
Nice work theer Dani :toast:
E6600
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...2/LapE6600.jpg
E4300
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...A22/lapski.jpg
Lapping helped the E6600 a lot because it was shaped like a spoon, but the E4300 didn't get any decrease in temps whatsoever.
Omg dani and herm how did you get that finish? :eek2: :bows:
what kind of paper did you use? :clap:
Here is some pics of my work.
My E6400:
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/8291/cam0755gc4.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8751/cam0756eh4.jpg
My Scythe Infinity which i polished a bit:
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/3184/cam0753tg9.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimReaper
1200 grit wet'n'dry because it was the finest grade I could find, (1500 or 2000 grit would be ideal) but I put some metal polish on the paper before lapping (figure 8 motion) Afterwards I just used isopropanol to clean out or dissolve any residue the polish left behind and that was that. For the final cut I prefer to use wet'n'dry that is pretty much worn out or at least has had heavy use as it seems to give a more uniform finish. The keyy is to take your time doing it, I spent about an hour or more to get the finish in those screenies, but in all honesty as long as it is 'flat' thats enough.
very nice everybody.
very interesting I used a 2500 wet paper on my heatsink and it looks like I just rubbed it on a tar road :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by HermS
Can anyone tell me how this compares to taking off the IHS altogether ? I've a Venice I wanna get working on (just waiting on lanparty nf4 to ship) and I'm wondering which I'd get better temps with: lapping or removing the IHS.
p.s: Nice mirror finishes all! :clap:
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ IE ] unity
Remove the IHS :-P. I popped my 170 and both my 8800s.
polishing the lap job with brasso is not a good idea because it leaves a layer on the IHS.
well that is what I have read before numerous times, also it woudl seem that just leaving the IHS bare as your are going to use TIM would be a better idea?
On AMD chips the IHS's are usually pretty flat in my experience so lapping might not be that beneficial. There are gains to be had from removing the IHS completely, but it's a risky job and the risk outweighs the benefit in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HermS
Considering folks have been recording high temps on the 8800s anyway, i am glad I popped mine, MOST think I am crazy HA!
Well this CPU was like ~60 euro so no big loss if I do kill it when taking off the IHS ;) Then again according to this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=132319 S939 chips are becoming rare now maybe I should keep it @ stock as a collector's item to make lots of money selling it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by HermS
Quote:
Originally Posted by phelan1777
I polished it with 99% Isopropyl Alchohol aftwerwards, which should remove the layer. Temps has improved alot anyways
Some of these lapping pics are awesome. Last HSF I lapped was I think a GlobaWin, my current Theralright 947U is fairly flat but it it makes like 10C diff then I'm definately going to contemplate lapping the IHS and HSF when I move to C2D in a few months time :)
good god almighty ive never seen such sexy mirror finishes, dani your takin pictures with your processor half way down the block! :rofl:
<---
Just 500. It's Pentium4 540J, the temperatures now are 7C down at full load.
Slick you guys:cool: :cool:
Makes me want to lap my e6300.:)
Me too, I think I will take a handful of cpu shots and get out the glass and sandpaper ;-)
rofl after seein all of this im gona have to buy a kit and lap my current cpu :rofl:
Hard to resist, huh? :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
I can't lap mine cause I DON'T HAVE AN IHS!:hehe:
I'd lap mine too, but I'm still concerned about losing warranty. Do I need it at all? Cuz if I lost my CPU I won't have the money to buy another E6600, i'd have to buy some cheap one.
if your CPU works im sure your fine, just dont lap using water, dry sand only to reduce the risk of damageQuote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
Lap the die you wus :DQuote:
Originally Posted by phelan1777
in for pics of failure :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Contero
This is awesome guys. Is there a poll around indicating average temp drops for lapped processors?
You people make me sick! ;)
I lap my 6400 now,plz give me some advice before it :D
i think it all depends on the curve of the IHS prior to the lapping, best way to tell how bad it is, take a straight razor blade and place it across the IHS and see if you can see the space inbetween.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyea
Ok, I'll try that over the weekend.
Wow, those are some impressive results (both temp-wise and mirror-finish-wise).
It gets me wondering, though... My E6400 currently idles @ 27-28/23-24º C (not used to imperial metric system, sorry; plus, I'm referring to each core in separate), with virtually NO airflow, only two 12cm Noiseblocker fans @ 750rpm (same overall results if only the 12cm PSU-fan is used). If I were to smooth the IHS, then it would idle @ room temperature :lol2:?
Also, I'd like to know one thing, if you don't mind. With that kind of surface contact area, is thermal paste even necessary anymore? :p:
Btw, someone asked about voiding your warranty. Lapping DOES void it, doesn't it?
Cheers.
Miguel
P.S.: I'd like to have a cheap used CPU for lapping. It would be fun, for sure. However, both CPUs I have are very new (oldest one is less than 6 months old...) and not that cheap (805 and E6300, the 805 is the oldest).
Anyone wanna lap my new X6800? I WANT A MIRROR FINISH TOO! :worship:
It's not hard at all. You dont even have to worry about bent pins ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrips
My first ever lapping gave a beautiful mirror finish. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_fx
Sheesh, at $1000 a pop for those chips, I would be scared as all hell to try that... X6800's don't grow on trees, but wouldn't it be cool if they did? :thumbsup:
Lol, but lapping ain't going to kill your Conroe, unless you decide to pour water on it or smash it with a hammer :p: :hammer:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrips
yes lapping does void your warranty as far as i know
Hmm, well, maybe I will look into in, seeing as I have not actually assembled my rig yet. The last of the past should be coming from New Egg tomorrow, if they hurry up and process my order :slapass:
Any forum links for a good guide to laping my CPU? I don't think I would hit it with a hammer, but I also don't want to screw it up!
Good times! :toast:
Here is a good guide: :)
http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=71
I echo that question... The purpose of thermal paste is to fill the tiny gaps in an imperfect surface... With a finish like that, does paste help or hinder?Quote:
Originally Posted by __Miguel_
id also like to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain
The funny thing is, unless the thermal paste is almost liquid, with a mirror-finish like those, the odds are you're actually ADDING imperfections... :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain
Would anywone be so kind as to shed some light on this subject? Maybe with some tests to back either conclusion?
And thanks for the reply about the warranty issue. I'm not going to try that with a 1 month old €200 E6400, I'll have to get a €50 Celly to do that :p: My money doesn't grow on trees (unfortunately) hehe
Cheers.
Miguel
MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL WHAT IS THE BEST FINISH OF THEM ALL
Cathar says 600grit :)
Think I'm going to try lapping my P4 3.2NW to get a feel for this before doing anything of value :)
Without lapping, my E6600 is running about 5 deg higher than the room temp (idle). Now I wonder if I can get it to run 5 deg lower than room temp if I lapped it... anyone tried this? Please post your results ... lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rick_fx
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain
Thermal Paste (a.k.a. Heatsink compound) is basically silicon grease loaded with some heat conductive substances - it is a reasonable conductor of heat but even the premium stuff (think nowherenear-Arctic-$$$ilver) is nothing when compare to the thermal conductivity of metals such as Cu or Al.
A small amount of Thermal Paste fills the void and get rid of the air in between the IHS and the HSF, creating a lower themal resistance than air (which is a bad conductor of heat). Too much of it is like putting resistors in series (because afteralll that stuff is not an ideal heat conductor). It creates a thermal resistance in between the IHS and HSF, so I guess you know what that means, right?;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Yes you shall go to the ball cinders :D
@topic -
Seriously though lapping to a mirror finish is nice to look at sure, but really as long as the surface is flat that is enough, as dinos/cathar says 600 grit is plenty to achieve this without gouging the surface. To lap an IHS that is already pretty much dead flat is not worth it, but if your IHS is concave like mine was then chances are you will get a good result from lapping... sadly Intel's IHS's are not consistent in that regard so it's always worth checking.
As far as paste application, in my experience it pays to use as little as humanly possible, I've always had best results when the paste is so thinly applied that it is practically translucent. The method described by Arctic Silver where you apply a line for dual core or a grain of rice for single cores and then let the heatsink spread it always gives much worse results for me, it may be fine for the uninitiated, but when every last 0.1c counts it usually makes the thickness of the TIM way too heavy and hinders heat transfer. That's an interesting idea about not using any paste at all, I've considered it in the past but never had the balls to try it out... so far. :D
No polish whatsoever, just wet and dry, 30 minute job
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8693/xp90c2nd4.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4778/xp90c1rl3.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3...dconroegh6.jpg
Awesome pics lawrywild :)
I've never really considered the benefits of lapping, guess I'm like a boy with a new toy and want it installed and running as soon as poss but this thread has reminded that OC'ing is like decorating - it's all in the preparation, plus I've always been attracted to shiney copper :D
how's the warranty after lapping the processor?
tnx
gone ... i believe ... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DJSUB
and that's when you ask yourself how often do you have CPUs fail on you after a good 24+ burn in... the answer is close to never. About 1 in 10k are prone to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbinh
well i dont think you have to worry about how big your balls are with trying out no paste. Personally i think now adays unless your stuff is extremely uneven as long as the metal of the heatsink makes good contact with the IHS you wont have to worry about starting the thing up and it burning up :rofl: I would know, when i first started building computers i did not mount a heatsink right on a slot 1 pentium 3 and it didnt make contact with the cpu, and i destroyed that cpu by always trying to run it with no heatsink :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by HermS
Excellent stuff, thanks! I beeter think hard about this, cus even though CPU failure is very rare (I have never needed to RMA a CPU) it is still a possibility. Im nervous! Still, great stuff, everyone! :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_fx
Well, you guys got me so excited by the pretty lapping jobs, I had to try for myself.
http://www.pbase.com/eltonandersen/i...3/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/eltonandersen/i...7/original.jpg
so how uneven was it, im sure you were able to tell during the process? My lappiing kit is on its way, but ill be lapping my old AMD athlon 64, because i wont be buying the new parts for the new rig for some time.
It took me 20-30mins of sanding just to get the inner area at the same level as the outer area. It was like a crater in the center.
Wow! Loved the "out the window, on the street" pic, haha! I didn't spend too much time on this E6400, but it did lower temps and she's 24hr Orthos stable @ 3600. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0/IMG_1138.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0/IMG_1142.jpg
whats the best motion to go into?
90 degree angles or a figure 8?
By 90 degree angle, what i mean is to place the cpu on the sand paper and move it up, straight up then pick it up and place it back down in the center of the paper and do it again at least another 4 times. Then rotate the cpu to the right and go up again 5 times. Is this the best way?
also, you have to do this dry right? Do not wet the paper with anything??
Read this, same principle applies for a CPU as a heatsink. http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews/lapp...dex.php?file=1Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeblast
love this thread ... awesome pics ... hmm .. im thinking of lapping mine now as well :)
need more Mhz :)
It said to use water.
I think thats a no-no.
you sand the IHS with dry sand paper, NO WATER no OIL no soap. right? just straight dry?
and yes, it looks like the 90 degree up/down left/right technique is best.
do you do it back and forth or up and the lift up and place it back down and go up again?
My E6300
http://upload.nickfire.com//files/13...nroe%20008.jpg
Reflecting camera.
http://upload.nickfire.com//files/13...nroe%20014.jpg
Reflecting the Giant Markets logo on a gallon of distilled.
...and my friends Celeron D
http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/...ebay%20013.jpg
Reflecting my monitor.
http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/...ebay%20018.jpg
and mousepad.
<3 u for this thread.
h8 u for using this cute avatar i allready use in another forum.
h8<3 :D
:rofl:
I lapped my CPU about 2 weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaddam205
I started with 600 grid, moving on to 800 grid. (because I didn't have anything else to do it with :rolleyes: )
Now the problem is, since I lapped the IHS, only 1 core gets recognized :(
When I boot the PC, the bios etc says "Cores: 2", but whenever I boot into windows, it only sees one core.
(used CPU-Z, everest, windows itself for checking)
Cpu works perfectly fine, but only with one core :(
I have a P5B deluxe mobo, and I'm quite out of answers ..
Help? I prolly broke it :slap:
that is weird, did you damage anything on the back while lapping? ive never heard of anyone breaking their cpu from just lapping before unless they used water.Quote:
Originally Posted by J a D a
1. Even if you drop your CPU into water you should just let it dry in some warm place for several hours and it should be fine. Just not power it up when wet :)
2. I have bought some sandpaper, 3 sheets (400, 600, 1200) for about 1.2zł each (1$ = ~2 zł), I'll do some lapping tomorrow :) stay tuned for some pics from lapping n00b ;)
so you don't lap the IHS with any liquid? just dry sanding?
not many of you would have seen my thread about preparing a motherboard for sub zero benching in which i linked to one of the user's suggestions from OCAU.....washing the motherboard in sink with soap water and everything and then baking it a little in the oven to dry it
he's done it a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of times and they all work great LOL :eek: LOL
here is something amusing......................this is a reply i got from a fellow OCAU member...........:eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baziz
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
thats a motherboard.....in soapy water....and a oven.....:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^i was just replying to this i guess heheheQuote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
well, as interesting as that looks, I will not be trying it. :)
so....you just dry sand it right? Don't use any liquid when lapping the IHS?
I didn't damage anything as far as I can see..Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
I used like, 3 drops of water on my paper to startup the process.
You think thát is the cause of my problem?
obviously I didn't put the CPU into the socket without cleaning it
great, pictures everyone i have 32C idle on my lapper e6400
So you DO use some water to lap the cpu?
Here's a little step by step of my lap job. I have a 6600 and a Tuniq Tower, and they were ugly.
Yanking the heatsinks off after 1 month:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink2.jpg
Hmm, looks like in that AS5 mud the IHS was only contacting on the edges and the corners
The base of the Tuniq:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink1.jpg
Sure seems like it here too. I think the a bit smaller than a grain of rice technique is too much also (I didnt see the line technique at the AS5 site when I put it together, but that might be too much as well IMO after seeing this.)
Cleaned off Tuniq base:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink3.jpg
Yup, shiny edge pattern in the metal, no center contact for sure. No wonder it would get hot with any voltage boost for higher OC's
I'll skip the 6600 lapping, 'cause we have seen it already (and I was too busy lapping to remember to take photos, lol). But kind of important...the Tuniq is also is dished so that center contact with the IHS would not happen: :eek:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink4.jpg
After even more sanding, still has a nice dish where you would like to see good contact with the IHS:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink5.jpg
CPU back on the MB, with a spiffy 300 grit finish (I'm looking for flat, not pretty. That and I could only find some 300 in the garage, too lazy to buy more paper :p: ):
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink6.jpg
All buttoned up, lets fire her up:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../heatsink7.jpg
After doing this I dropped 5-6 degrees in TAT under Orthos load at the usual OC of 3.4 at stock voltages which my machine will do. Now for the really interesting part...bumping the vcore to 1.3875 which my machine needs to run Orthos stable at 3.6 resulted in a 10 degree drop with Orthos running. All I can say is...if you are on the fence on whether to lap your CPU and cooler, do it!
Which is the procces to do this proyect?
How can i do on my own e6300???
What i get if i do this?
so don't use any liquid when sanding the CPU?
Depends on the type of paper used. Some papers are meant for both wet & dry sanding, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeblast
I've done both, I like wet sanding better. Comes out nicer IMO.
I would think at that voltage it would be hotter than the depths of hell. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM
3.875? and your computer didnt set on fire?
lol wow that is crazy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
Though I would not rule out that it works. My mouse and keyboard have gotten wet many times, while RUNNING, I just unplug them and let them dry off, and they work again. Im guessing the dynamics are different on a mobo, but my old 6 year old mouse and keys are still kickin :D
I will post some lapping pics when i get my sandpaper. this thread is good stuff.
I dont have any pics but, I lapped E6600 and got about -3C load temperature drop. My IHS was pretty flat to begin with and was slightly concave.
My IHS is not prefectly mirror smooth, but it is now flat according to the razor blade test.
I had to lap my CPU 3 times because I kept accidentally banging my water block on the lapped surface when reinstalling and it left big scratches on the surface.
Intel doesnt lap their IHS's because it would cost far too much in time and equipment to justify the temperature drop with stock running CPU's. You gotta remember, Intel doesnt make CPU's for enthusiasts who wring every last drop of performance. They build CPU's for the many OEMs and manufacturers. A stock running E6600 with a mirror flat lapped IHS will perform no different than one with a slightly convex rough IHS in normal climate controlled home/office environments. Enthusiasts make up very very little of the total market.
Plus, I like the fact that enthusiasts have to go the extra mile to get the most performance. I wouldnt like doing this stuff if some joe shmo could just go out and slap an ultra high end top clocker WR breaker system togethor with little to no thought.
Lapping and getting that little extra edge is what seperates us from the normal hobbyists. If everyone else could easily get what we strive and work hard to get, most of us would just give up and buy a Dell.
I'm just glad that Computer parts manufacturers are starting to realize that hardcore enthusiasts help drive sales, and can make or break their end of year financial numbers. This kinda relationship is common among every industry I know of except computers, but I'm glad this is changing.
Whoops, I just caught that. Yeah, that would be inferno time, eh? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by crazyea
I meant 1.3875 vcore :D 60-62C running Orthos with 78F room temps case closed up, I'm happy with these temps now. With my machine's new-found cooling ablity I'll try faster OC's as it seems that my CPU might be one of the good ones looking at what voltages others are reporting with their 6600's.
Just lapped my E6600 ;) i won't tell you how much did I gain, I 'm waiting for AS5 to bake a little.
http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/4...ppedvx4.th.jpg
SOME N00B OBSERVATIONS ON LAPPING
1. I used 400, 600 and 1200 grit paper, but 400 is too fine to start with. Next time I would start with 300 or 240 - that way the entire process would take much less time
2. make sure you apply equal pressure to he CPU. Use two or four fingers, dont use three. If you are using the cross pattern, you can look at the scratches to determine if pressure is equal - if you can see horizontal scratches in one corner of IHS after making several vertical moves, than your pressure on thet corner was lesser than on other. I think that this is the superiority of cross pattern over the 8-pattern.
3. Beware the stickers on the sandpaper. I had price sticker on the back of every sheet I bought, that makes the lapping surface uneven even if you used glass or something flat as a base.
4. Try not to break your cpu tray; lapping is much harder without the tray.
5. DON'T EVER TOUCH THE LAPPED SURFACE.
I'm not saying you should listen to my advice; just tought it may help somebody to avoid my mistakes.
NICE!! :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeblast
I used water while sanding mine and got a great result. I just taped the back of the CPU with electric tape to make the cleaning up easier.
For those of you who are lapping Intel 775 CPUs, why not covering them with the plastic cover they ship in and then taping the PCB with duck tape? It seems to me that this way there would be the least amount of residues to the worried about. Don't you agree?
Cheers.
Miguel
[EDIT] Sorry about any grammar errors. I'm still getting used to Vista's Voice Recognition Software. Not that easy to master when you're not a native speaker... :P [/EDIT]