[MemoryReaction] G.Skill F2-6400CL4D-HK

Introduction:

I received a sample from G.Skill around two weeks ago and I've finally had the chance to finish up my review on this exciting new memory kit. When I first received this kit, not much was known about it, and frankly I assumed with it's timings that it had to be Micron. I was quite surprised after asking around that the kit contained new Promos IC's.

It's great that memory manufacturers have been able to find a performance substitute to the Micron based IC's. Micron IC's are extremely expensive, and while they perform well, they aren't the only game in town, and I suppose that's what G.Skill and other manufacturers are trying to prove with these alternative IC kits. Now, without further ado, let's get on to the review.

The Memory:

http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gskill/package3.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...ks_package.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...s_package4.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...s_package3.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gskill/sticks1.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gskill/sticks2.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gskill/sticks3.jpg http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gskill/sticks4.jpg

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Test Setup:

Intel Core 2 Duo "Allendale" E6400 - Lapped
Asus P5B-Deluxe rev1.03G - Stock, Bios: 908beta
2x1GB G.Skill F2-6400CL4D-HK
BFG GeForce 7950GT 512MB
OCZ PowerStream 600w

Cooling:

CoolTechnica AQX MP-05 SP LE, Swiftech MCW60, Black Ice Pro III, Swiftech MCP655, 7/16" ID
120mm Yate Loon @ 12v over memory

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Testing Methodology:

The testing process I used is quite simple, and I'm guessing quite close to the same procedures the bulk of you use to test your new hardware. I simply, hopped in bios, set the lowest reccomended voltage by G.Skill themselves, which was 2.0v, and set the stock rated timings of 4-4-3-5-3. I then proceeded to exit bios and enter Memtest v1.70. I tested using tests 1, 2, 4, and then 10 loops of test 5 before moving on to the next speed up. I worked in the 2:3 ratio and moved up 2MHz on the FSB at a time. I also used full vFSB and vMCH voltages the entire time to ensure the chipset wouldn't hold me back. I increased clock speed until I would error in memtest, then I'd back down 1MHz on the FSB at a time until the errors disapeared, then I'd log my results and push up the voltage another notch and do the same testing with that. Once this was done, I entered windows and began testing in Orthos using 2hr test periods to attempt to document some level of stability, atleast higher than SuperPi 32M, while still maintaining my social life and other responsibilities. :cool: I experienced fairly large discrepancies at some points throughout the Orthos testing between what Orthos was saying was stable and what Memtest had previously passed. This just goes to show all those of you who think Memtest is the end all be all test suite for memory, it isn't, it's a starting point.

The Review:

Each piece is separated by timings and voltages. I started with 4-4-3-5-3 and ended with 5-5-5-15-5 to achieve maximum MHz.

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Timings: 3-3-3-5-3

2.35v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...33353_235v.PNG

2.4v

No Gain, Actually Lowered Stability.

2.45v

No Gain, Actually Lowered Stability.


Timings: 4-4-3-5-3

2.0v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...5_44353_2v.PNG

2.1v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs..._44353_21v.PNG

2.25v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...44353_225v.PNG

2.35v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...44353_235v.PNG

2.4v-Higher

No substantial increase in stability or clocking was achieved with voltages above 2.35v. It's quite apparent that these sticks like to stay in the lower voltage zones, especially when compared to Micron D9.

Let's see how they do with 5-5-5-15-5 timings shall we?

The Review (Continued):

Timings: 5-4-3-10-3

2.0v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs..._543103_2v.PNG

2.1v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...543103_21v.PNG

2.25v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...43103_225v.PNG

2.35v

Extra voltage with these timings netted me only an additional 5MHz of stability in windows, however they were Memtest stable at 1080MHz (50 passes). Not windows stable.


Timings: 5-5-5-15-5

2.0v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs..._555155_2v.PNG

2.1v
http://enjoy.nickfire.com/reviews/gs...555155_21v.PNG

2.25v

Not windows stable

2.35v

Not windows stable

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Conclusion & Verdict:

We can see by loosening the timings, even slightly (CAS 4 -> CAS 5), we gain a substantial boost in the MHz/Voltage ratio. The sticks clock nearly to 1000MHz at their stock voltage with this somewhat minor timing change and surpass it with a small voltage boost. Knowing this, I can say that both CAS Latency and RAS to CAS Read/Write Delay are by far the most influencial timings for these memory chips. TRP hardly seems to effect them at all in regards to stability, and really only comes into play onces the sticks pass the 1100MHz point, which from what I've seen they are quite capable of doing.

Regarding my 5-5-5 high latency testing results, I was able to acheive nearly 1200MHz MemTest stable (50 passes at 1170MHz to be exact), with 2.4v. Unfortunately my chipset seems to be a brick wall in that no matter what I do, I cannot seem to stay windows stable anywhere above 1060MHz or so, regardless of CPU speed or FSB. I'm quite confident that if these sticks were on a volt modded 965 board, or especially a 680i based board, they would certainly soar through windows at 1200MHz or more with relative ease.

Given these results and my experiences with the sticks, I can happily recommend them to anyone looking for cheap and reliable performance memory modules. If you are using a p965 based board, or 975x, you'll see excellent results with these up to nearly 1100MHz, and if your chipset is volt modded, you should see even more! If you're on 680i, you're most certainly in for a real treat with some high clocks and possibly even tighter timings at those speeds than even your Micron can offer with the same voltages.

Concluding, I'd like to thank G.Skill for the review opportunity. This has been a tech reaction by yours truly, EnJoY.

You can find these sticks here at Newegg.

Good stuff man!!! 520mhz cas 4!

Get back inside and do the cas 5!!!! :-P

Bazi you're running looser timings... good results nonetheless.

Nice Promo chips here!
Why don't you run Blend test in Orthos?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McPhisto

Nice Promo chips here!

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It's ProMOS, but I would have to agree on the quality of their new ICs.
Who would have thought ProMOS to become the second best next to Micron...
Really an amazing achievement.

EnJoY, good job on the review. :toast:
Looking forward to the second part with some CAS5 clocks.

looks like they are all pretty much doing 600MHz 5-5-5-x ~2.5v :)

Thanks guys, I promise the 5-5-5 timing results will be even more exciting. :D

And incase anybody is curious as to why I skipped 4-4-4 results... Basically, I saw zero increase in stability or overclock from RAS Precharge going to 4 from 3. I don't know why, but it just didn't help, so I decided to just shoot right up to 5-5-5, which is what I'm testing right now.

Nice pics :D :toast:

With Elpida and Promos usually you don't see any increase in stability between ras to precharge 3 4 or even 5... try 4-5-4 timings or 4-5-3 timings. Ras to Cas delay 5 usually increases stability a lot on both elpida and promos.

try 5-4-3 as well ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

try 5-4-3 as well ;)

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Yea, I think I will. I'm also gonna try 3-3-3. I'm having a ton of trouble getting into windows with my system. I'm seeing DDR2-1140 with only 2.25v, and it's memtest stable, but I can't for the life of me get into windows anywhere near that. It's disturbing and I've played with tons of settings. I'll keep toying, but because of this, I won't be posting the 5-5-5 results tonight. I'll have 3-3-3 results tomorrow without fail to tide you guys over until I can get 5-5-5 worked out.

Damn nice results...

Now the question is how can we tell the crap Promos from this good stuff? :confused:

Bring them here... I've got both the P5W DH and the DS3 setup on the bench ;)

:D :eek: doing soo well for promos :eek: are these sub 300$?

it is a nice review and great photo taken

I can't wait to see CL5-5-5-15, 5-4-3-x, & 3-3-3-x tests

the price for 2GBHK is 239 @ newegg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231114

3-3-3-5-3 Results posted in the first post above the 4-4-3 results. I could get 3-3-3 working at 2.35v, but I couldn't get any higher than 400MHz fsb, and more volts actually made it worse.

Next is 5-4-3 or 4-5-3 results.

is that 3-3-3-5 T1? :slobber:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nn_step

is that 3-3-3-5 T1? :slobber:

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This is 965p, so it's always 2T.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

This is 965p, so it's always 2T.

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run everest latency benchmark

nice pics

Enjoy, how much time do you spend tweaking sub times when you review ram? Do you mostly leave them be and just adjust the main timings or do you play with them to get every last mhz out of the kit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stapler

Enjoy, how much time do you spend tweaking sub times when you review ram? Do you mostly leave them be and just adjust the main timings or do you play with them to get every last mhz out of the kit?

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I played with the sub timings a lot with these, and I actually ran them at different timings throughout the review depending on what the other timings were or what speed I was shooting for. For the 3-3-3 testing I tightened the sub timings up a bit, but I played with them a lot to see if they made any difference in the low MHz clocking. They really only come into play regarding stability when you get above 1000MHz, before that they're just there to tweak performance.

Very nice and clean review you made! Keep the good work going :)

kakaroto,

just 1 more thing :p:

how do you get selected for reviewing the memory? I too want to review some memory :(

grim, his is a XIP


Nice review enjoy. If possible, a 4-4-4-5 run would be sweet.

I have the PK's and they perform very similar, just not as great as those :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irev210

grim, his is a XIP

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does that mean non-xips don't review stuff :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irev210

Nice review enjoy. If possible, a 4-4-4-5 run would be sweet.

I have the PK's and they perform very similar, just not as great as those :)

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I'm testing 5-4-3-10-3 right now with great success...I'll post results tonight before I hit up the parties for thirsty thursday lol. :p:

4-4-4-5 didn't gain anything over 4-4-3-5 as I mentioned in the review.

Final piece of the review has been posted along with the conclusion and verdict. Thanks goes to G.Skill for the review opportunity. :toast:

Hmm would a brand new DS3 be able to boot with these RAM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kotoko

Hmm would a brand new DS3 be able to boot with these RAM?

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I don't see why not, although I don't keep up with DS3 updates/info. However, to me, they would seem like an ideal fit given that Gigabyte has typically only had issues with Micron based memory.

Just about all ram will boot now on the Gigabyte 965/975 boards. The only boards that had problems were the older revisions, right when core 2 came out. A bios that came out around September fixed the problems. All boards in the past few months have been shipped with a newer bios that doesn't have the ram problems.

Nice review EnJoY and nice RAM G.Skill :)

I'm curious, what sub-timings were used?

As I said in another post, I switched up the timings quite a bit during testing. In my next review, I'm including MemSet in the screenshots to show the other timings.

I believe for high clocks I used 8-10-9-12, but 8-11-10-13 could also be used if needed. For lower clocks, I was able to use 5-10-7-11.

y did you use large in orthos and not blend priority 9 when you are trying to stress the ram?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnsally

y did you use large in orthos and not blend priority 9 when you are trying to stress the ram?

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My experience is that this stresses the ram better than blend. Also, I didn't bring the priority any higher than 3 so that I could use my pc while it's testing. I feel that just by me using all my daily programs while priming that it's almost as good as running a higher priority, while still remaining productive. Admittedly, running priority of 9 would be best, but frankly, if I were going for guaranteed 100% stability, I'd be running the tests for 10+ hrs, and then you'd see a review from me once every 6 months haha.

Thanks for the review. Actually have 4x1GB scheduled to be delivered this week, based on a recommendation from a friend that had a 2GB set running @ DDR2-1000 @ 4-4-3-5 timings (2.1v).

We'll see how it does. Right now I have a 2GB set of Firestix PC2-8000 running in the box @ 4-4-4-10 (2.1v). These are D9s, so are also very good sticks of ram. It'll be interesting to see how the ProMos match up against the D9s. Reason for the proposed switch is that I could get 4x1GB of these G.Skills for $250 vs paying over $300 for another 2x1GB set of the Firestix. So, unless the Firestix are hugely better than the G.Skills, bang-for-buck is solidly in the G.Skill corner.

Heya!

i got the same memories, they seem to be very good!

Well you can see my PC configuration in my sig.

I dunno why, i cant really achieve the 1000 mhz barrier, nor close to it, now.

I remember i could run a 990 mhz with some modified timings, and some 2.4 voltage, but now mostly all i can do is 950, 960 with unstable behaviors, and @ 2.3 or even 2.4v.

I use it everyday in my OC´d 631 P4 @ 4.0, with DDR2 @ 900 @ 2.1v and stock timings (4-4-3-5 @ 1T).

I dunno if i killed my memories with tests, or whatever, but i remember to see some freeze bios screens sometimes, when i used to try to push it further than 1000 mhz, and lol, really had to remove motherboard´s batery to be able to start the system and BIOS again.

I dunno if the CPU has anything to do with it, i mean, if a greater CPU(Any C2D material) will allow me more OC from memories(i know better results will come for sure), or whatever, but do you have any idea of why i cant just do the same as you did(2.25 voltage, 500 mhz, stock 4-4-3-5 timings)?

i can imagine if cpu has a great factor on that, but im not sure...:(

I will get a C2D soon, maybe the E6600, just saving money for my GTS videocard and so i will get it.

But well, im running very stable @ 4.0 in P4 and stock timings and 2.1v, @ 900 mhz.

The only strange thing is that 3D mark 06 doesnt complete a bench test, it bugs in the cpu test stage, and closes the program. This happen, while orthos can rock it for over 12 nonstop hours, trouble free.

And also gaming is very stable, havent find any restart of OS or anything, even after hours of gaming stress.

Any tips from anyone on how good or bad my hardware is atm, i mean, if i killed memories or whatever?

you have to change your command rate to 2T to go further

Are these rams the same as the current ones at Newegg going for $105?

uwackme,

Newegg should have both Promos based HKs and PKs. If you confirm the part number, then yes, they would be the same stuff.

Their HZs are Micron D9 based and are also very affordable, now that D9 based stuff is down in price to where it could just about be considered value ram.

Promos memory has had a bad rep around overclocking forums, at least compared to the D9. But with all these reports of D9 sticks dying at 2.1 or 2.2V after a few months, I'm strongly considering the G.Skill HK. Do any other manufacturers (OCZ, Crucial, Patriot) offer guaranteed Promos high-end memory? I know some Corsair XMS is Promos, but I've heard too many bad things about the Corsair RMA procedure. I just want stable memory with good manufacturer warrantied specs. Crazy super-high overclocks would be nice but I'd rather my memory lasted for several years without dying at manufacturer spec'd voltage.

Have there been many reports of Promos based DDR2-800 CAS4 memory dying or is this issue only affecting D9? Also how hot does the HK run @2.0-2.1V, would a fan blowing on the memory be optimal at these voltages?

Seeing these chips run stable at 890mhz 4-4-3-5 2.0V is impressive. If this is what the G.Skill HK typically can do, that makes the Promos very appealing. I care more about moderate overclocks at nice low voltages for long-term stability to minimize heat and maximize the life of my computer. Is this 4-4-3-5 memory definitely faster than the 4-4-4-12 HZ, at the same frequency with all else equal? I noticed the subtimings listed in the G.Skill subforum are a bit different between the HZ and HK, so I'm wondering if there is more to memory latency than the base timings.

I had them at DDR2-1000, 4-4-4-12 with 2.25V and heat wasn't an issue.

I have them on a amd board 790fx.They were at 1066(4-4-3-5) benchable with 2.35.
http://www.hwbot.org/signature.img?i...95&thumb=false
Nice cheap sticks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DevilCry

I have them on a amd board 790fx.They were at 1066(4-4-3-5) benchable with 2.35.
http://www.hwbot.org/signature.img?i...95&thumb=false
Nice cheap sticks

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Very nice sticks.

here is mine 2GBHK

Max MHZ 555mhz 2.1v 5-5-5-5
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/443...2601322_rs.jpg

Max MHZ + Timing
522Mhz 2.2v 5-4-3-10
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8...015smemik0.png

465Mhz 2.1v 4-4-3-4
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/433...3973951_rs.jpg

500Mhz 2.1v 5-4-4-10
http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/466...1871137_rs.jpg

http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/463...6838968_rs.jpg

525Mhz 2.1v 5-4-4-10
http://aycu17.webshots.com/image/459...6772043_rs.jpg

http://aycu18.webshots.com/image/438...1184107_rs.jpg

Super PI
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5...z16015sws4.png

Dude you got too lucky!

I need 2.4v on mine to scale up to 1150 mhz 5-5-5-15, or 2.3v for 1000 mhz 4-4-3-5!

You sure you have the HK memory? Lol, just looks too good to be true.

With two pairs installed I can get 1000 mhz at lower fsb frequencies, but over 475 mhz fsb 1:1 they BSOD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bhavv

Dude you got too lucky!

I need 2.4v on mine to scale up to 1150 mhz 5-5-5-15, or 2.3v for 1000 mhz 4-4-3-5!

You sure you have the HK memory? Lol, just looks too good to be true.

With two pairs installed I can get 1000 mhz at lower fsb frequencies, but over 475 mhz fsb 1:1 they BSOD.

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i got 600Mhz !!

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=326486

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/3223/39297355tp4.png



http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5...hz55515vi2.jpg

Nice! :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnJoY

Nice! :up:

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HK can more on 2.3v-2.4v ? how you think