Back plate mod for new generation cpu water blocks!

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01-25-2007, 12:06 AM
redcorn

Back plate mod for new generation cpu water blocks!

Hi guys! finally got to modifying a back plate to stop the bowing of the motherboards when using convex based cpu water blocks such as the new D-tek Fuzion block and Swiftech Apogee GT. This mod would work and should be done on any motherboard using 775 Intel chips and a cpu water block that does not come with a back plate.

This idea came about after reading about the swiftech challenge and what happened to the guys the first night when they broke the EVGA 680i mother board from installing the new convex style bases of the cpu water blocks. After my install experience of a Dtek Fuzion block on another thread several members suggested why cant we modify a back plate to stop the motherboard from bowing?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=131298

Virtualrain posted this link http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/m...ion_lga775.htm
as a good back plate. The part itself only costs 5 dollars MSRP shipping will cost more then the part.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835999351
Why cant the water block companies supply us with this? Since the Dtek and Swiftech Apogee GT are so close in performance the first company that would supply a back plate would surely take the most orders from us dont you think?

Lucky for me I had a brand new one sitting in my computer closet so I modified it to work with the studs from Dtek Fuzion block. I took a 9/64 drill bit and enlarged the holes and added double sided sticky tape since it has a foam in it as a cushion on all four arms of that back plate. This protects the resistors on the back of the EVGA 680i board from being smashed by the pressure of the Waterblock tension. As you well see in the following pics the motherboard after the backing plate install would not bend even up to 15 full rotations of the tension screws where as before it would bow after five full rotations of the screws. This will help in applying even consistent pressure on the cpu giving more even temps across all cores and protect the motherboard.

Without the back plate and new Fuzion waterblock you see the board has bowed after only turning the screws five full rotations. Notice the heat sink has seperated from those heat producing chips that can cause bsods when over heated.

without back plate

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7867/boardbow6ez.jpg

here are pics of the back plate installed and turned 15 full rotations till almost hitting the spring stop which could not be done before. I didnt want to push my luck and crush the bottom side resistor so I left the screws hand tight and snug. Red circle is the resistor and the white foam is the extra double sided sticky tape as a cushion. The resistor is to the side of that steel arm of the back plate but I padded it anyways.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9...latepic4yy.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2...thblock0hr.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7...ckresis4ie.jpg

I also noted that taking off the original mount and looking at the thermal paste distribution without the backing plate showed the contact of the Fuzion block was dead on center with untouched thermal grease to the sides. After the backing plate almost all of the surface area of the cpu was being used with more pressure seen in the middle of the chip.

Here are some preliminary temps before and after the backplate install. Remember AS5 has not cured yet so the temps are still little high but not bad notice how the cores are more close to each other in temps after the back plate install. My computer room is always 77-78F as measured by a digital therm in my room and thermostat that controls that room.

here is before install at idle
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5...ckidle15vb.jpg
Here is before install under load
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4...aded28c6om.jpg
After install 1 hour idling
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2...allidle5fh.jpg
after install 1 hour load
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9...eloaded5rb.jpg
01-25-2007, 12:12 AM
Garrett

And the temps?
Nice find btw... :thumbsup:
01-25-2007, 12:47 AM
virtualrain

Good work man! Nice! :thumbsup:
01-25-2007, 01:26 AM
Borgod

Nice work mate :)
01-25-2007, 02:18 AM
Bail_w

I use the backplate from my Big Typhoon and it works perfectly without any drilling.
01-25-2007, 05:17 AM
Solarfall

hey nicelly done. simple but effective.
01-25-2007, 06:10 AM
qdemn7

redcorn , this is awesome, I was looking for just this solution, thank you so much! :toast: Just ordered a couple from Best Byte Computers. Should be here tomorrow.
01-25-2007, 07:45 AM
redcorn

Please share

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bail_w

I use the backplate from my Big Typhoon and it works perfectly without any drilling.

Wish you would have posted that before we were all wondering.
01-25-2007, 07:46 AM
redcorn

no problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qdemn7

redcorn , this is awesome, I was looking for just this solution, thank you so much! :toast: Just ordered a couple from Best Byte Computers. Should be here tomorrow.

My question is why do we have to do this ourselves cant the water block companies make this standard issue?

Props should also go to virtualrain.:toast: :woot:
01-25-2007, 08:33 AM
qdemn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by redcorn

My question is why do we have to do this ourselves cant the water block companies make this standard issue?

Props should also go to virtualrain.:toast: :woot:

I think this is something they simply overlooked. Hopefully this will change.
01-25-2007, 09:14 AM
Lancelot

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...7/computer.jpg
Here is my Zalman 9500 backplate......had to dremel out a couple places on the plate so it would sit flush......also had to drill out the holes to allow for the #6 bolts to fit thru. Went to Home Depot and purchased #6 bolt X 2" to make up for the lost length with using the backplate.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...omputer001.jpg
01-25-2007, 12:02 PM
Chas_The_Man

Zalman looks good too. And, I have one of those! You need longer bolts? I would have thought the ones that came with the fuzion had more than enough length to spare.
01-25-2007, 12:34 PM
cdelong

am I missing something? Theres virtually no difference between load temps. Maybe I scanned the thread too quickly?
01-25-2007, 12:39 PM
Chas_The_Man

I think thats the point. It doesnt affect temps much if at all and your mobo doesnt look like Godzilla trampled it.
01-25-2007, 12:47 PM
virtualrain

The key is that you can get maximum clamping force without risk of breaking a trace in your mobo.
01-25-2007, 12:57 PM
redcorn

New findings

Check this out guys

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...48#post1973448
01-25-2007, 12:59 PM
redcorn

load temps

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdelong

am I missing something? Theres virtually no difference between load temps. Maybe I scanned the thread too quickly?

Load temps were bad due to AS5 only had one hour to cure. Also the springs used to mount the Fuzion block turned out to be very inconsistent on evenly dispersing the load onto the chip. Since then here is my guide.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...48#post1973448

I am only going to do hard mounts from now on.
01-25-2007, 04:12 PM
Lancelot

Yea I had to get longer bolts with the Storm block......You should be fine with the FuZion because the bolds already have about 3/8" extra.
01-25-2007, 04:33 PM
Capt Proton

So, do I need a mod like this to mount a Fuzion on my DFI NF4 Ultra D Board?
01-25-2007, 08:40 PM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Proton

So, do I need a mod like this to mount a Fuzion on my DFI NF4 Ultra D Board?

Your board likely includes a metal backing plate you can use.
01-25-2007, 08:47 PM
sanhacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Yea I had to get longer bolts with the Storm block......You should be fine with the FuZion because the bolds already have about 3/8" extra.

I don't understand. Why would you need longer bolts with the Storm if you are hard mounting? I mean, doesn't the Storm typically fit with springs which would allow for ample "tightness" with a hard mount if you were to dispose of those springs?

Obviously I am missing a very key component to this discussion.
01-25-2007, 09:41 PM
LazyBum

Hmm I may need to look into one of those, been going without a backplate ever since swapping over from s939. I just use long #6 screws mounted from the backside, with jam nuts holding them securely to the board. Plastic/fiber washers keep the metal from touching the mobo. This leaves some long studs sticking out from the mobo that I can set the block onto and then put springs and wing nuts on to tighten it down with.
01-25-2007, 09:42 PM
Lancelot

I am actually still using all the stock mounting hardware, but I added a backplate to help with the "bow" effect of the motherboard. The storm uses a acorn nut so I need the exact same length bolt which the #6X2" bolt gives me.
01-26-2007, 06:36 AM
Chas_The_Man

If you want to use the acorn nuts then just cut the bolts to the correct size.
01-26-2007, 06:42 AM
JamesTX10

If I remove the springs and go to the HARD MOUNT. How do I know how much to tighten it?
01-26-2007, 06:51 AM
GrimReaper

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdelong

am I missing something? Theres virtually no difference between load temps. Maybe I scanned the thread too quickly?

exactly what I am thinking :banana: :banana:
01-26-2007, 08:09 AM
redcorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas_The_Man

Zalman looks good too. And, I have one of those! You need longer bolts? I would have thought the ones that came with the fuzion had more than enough length to spare.

The Fuzion bolts work fine you just have to use a drill bit 9/64 to make the holes wider on the thermalright back plate to fit the fuzion block screw studs.
01-26-2007, 08:13 AM
redcorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimReaper

exactly what I am thinking :banana: :banana:

There is a difference in temps when you mount the block correctly on the CPU with the back plate on. You have to remember this was not a water block shoot out, I didnt take time to make test data. All my screen shots are taken with 77F ambient room temperature, also with the pump at 50% and the 3 120mm fans at 5 out of 10 which is pretty quiet. Artic Silver has not cured yet either.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7835/idle77fym1.png

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...munbersyy1.jpg
01-26-2007, 08:31 AM
redcorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesTX10

If I remove the springs and go to the HARD MOUNT. How do I know how much to tighten it?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...48#post1973448

on a dual core you just tighten hand tight. You will know when you get to the limit its better to stop when the bolts are all tight and check for temps in windows using core temp beta or tat.

on a quad core you go down to hand tight then tune it with coretemp beta program in windows which will tell you which screws are not even or if one is to tight and the other ones to loose.

Both methods should use a back plate whether its the springs or hard mount.
01-26-2007, 03:32 PM
BlueAqua

Thanks for the info. As I was installing I was thinking about this but my board didnt bow, but I'm sure it will over time. I might as well install this before it bows and starts to lose tension.
01-26-2007, 03:59 PM
redcorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAqua

Thanks for the info. As I was installing I was thinking about this but my board didnt bow, but I'm sure it will over time. I might as well install this before it bows and starts to lose tension.

Dump the springs also and hard mount it. Just use your core temp beta program to check core temps this will tell you if you have maxed the screws out dont over torque go conservative and work down. Just hand tight at first then tighten each corner in star pattern. If you have a quad core, core temp beta will literally tell you which bolt is loose and which is to tight. See my guide.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=131481