Quad Core Phasing and Information : Read it here!

I hope to use this thread as a compilation of sorts for peoples temperatures with certain unit combinations, but also to remove excess posts regarding Vapochill and Nventiv units on quad cores.

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Major thing here is that stock Vapochills and Nventiv units are not up to quad core heat load. Many people see quick depreciation in temperatures after about two weeks, but more in vapochills then mach's. I propose this is due to liquid floodback wearing at the compressor and depleted efficiency.

Bottom line is, these stock manufactured units and even some modded ones are unable to cope with what we guess at between 250 and 275 watts of load.

Either much shorter capillary tubing, and/or a switch to a larger ID capillary is what we may need to start considering. As 5-6 feet of .031 is not appealing, I'm making the move to .036 for these high heat loads and using around 11 feet. This will let me subcool effectively as well.

Lets build up the ideas guys.

it would still be better cooling then air ore water

Not so much, killing the compressor due to liquid slogging would be majorly costly.

If the heat load was too much, wouldn't the compressor die from overheating due to the lack of suction cooling?

Possibly both! Thats a very valid point but then a compressor cooling refrigerant, like r11, could be the solution.

I'm still not sold on the flood back theorem. If you heat load is greater than the unit is tuned for, then you do not have enough refrigerant feed to the evaporator. Solution is more refrigerant, i.e shorter cap tube. Too much refrigerant will cause flood back, not too little.

Right theres a ton of variables adding into this. But also with our evaps you can only have so much expansion without pressures rising. More expansion from more pressure creates higher low side pressures and higher temps, then temps rise. Of course we need to get more refrigerant in, but its not all about shortening the cap tube, resizing to a larger ID will help.

But why then would overtime the unit become non-functional. I think either the evap is flooding out of control, or the compressors over heating. Possibly both as possibly the liquid that does get to the compressor doesnt cool it but only gets into the compression process and harms it.

Overall its time to work on solutions:
1) Larger compressors and condensers to help with lower temperatures.
2) Not shorter captubes, but longer larger ID captubes to deliver enough refrigerant but with still subcooling of the capillary.
3) Proper compressor cooling provided by 1 and 2.

Liquid flooding back to the compressor has an unmistakable sound. Sounds a bit like a deep fryer cooking chips :D I haven't heard of anybody saying their LS is cooking chips yet. :p:
As for performance dropping over time, I'm not sure, I reckon if the evap was flooding out of control it would happen pretty much as soon as the excessive heat load was attached. Maybe with a very excessive heat load for a unit tuned for something much less, the compressor is on a very steep downhill fight to an ugly and painful death? lol

I think you got some awesome idea's as to why Blank. But i have heard Vapo's under the load tester sounding like a deep fryer, PC Ice units too. Mach's accumulator actally works though.

With the evap flooding cooling still occurs though and so does the compressor damage, then the cooling starts to fail I"d imagine.

Hmmm whatever it is, stock Vapo's and Mach's cannot handle a quad core. A custom unit tuned especially for this higher load is needed.

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

But i have heard Vapo's under the load tester sounding like a deep fryer, PC Ice units too.

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On what kind of heat load?
I imagine if you place a MachIIGT on a P133, you would get flood back.

What do we know for sure?
a) LS's and Mach II's work great under a P4, opty, conroe range of heat loads ect
b) They cant handle the jandal under a quad due to some of the highest heat loads produced by cpu's we have seen yet.
c)Solution to tuning a phase change rig to a higher heat load than it was previously running is More refrigerant i.e shorter and/or bigger i.d cap tube.

Walt was online 2 mins ago. Correct either or both of us Walt. :p:

I use a load system that shows accurate wattage at variable AC current.
200watt load cell in a block with mounts, controlled by a variac, plugged thru into a kill-a-watt. The cell goes as high as 275watts.

a) yup
b) yup
3) yup but more refrigerant into the evap at any given point is more precise.

With old systems we can get the heat load under control, but the temps will be higher. So is larger systems the only way to get the temps of the past?

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

So is larger systems the only way to get the temps of the past?

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I guess so.

If we look at a danfoss NL-11F for an example
At 180 watts (which is about what my over clocked 650 puts out) it is rated for -30°C
At 274 watts (which is about what an over clocked quad puts out) it is rated for only -23.3°C
That's on R134a btw.
And maybe the condensors on the commercial units are boarder line for 180 odd watts You must admit they're pretty dam small.
If the condensor can't condense the hot gases properly, You'll be fighting a loosing battle tuning the cap tube. IMHO


a) A larger condensor to dissipate the extra heat load
b) A more powerful compressor because more energy is being shifted

I'm working out a SC12mlx with a condenser around the same size as your beautiful home made ones.

I know there is a way to calculate the capacity of a coil, but I'm dammed if I know how :p:
A wild stab in the dark guesstimation just by looking at the sizes of a Vapo condensor, my guess is they are good for 150-200Watts max.
My home made jobby, (as long as it does actually work properly) my guess would be around the vicinity of 1kw. probably more.

Mhm mines got an effective fin area of 8" x 8" x 2".

After reading some of the threads on Quad cores, at least Intel ones, from 2 of the units that Jinu has out there, I can estimate that we are NOT looking at 275 watts of heatload.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers or if you're pulling them 'out of a hat' but unless you have a heatload tester capable of 300 or more watts that's completely variable (which I do) then you have no frame of reference.

Both of Jinu's units, using 402a or a blend including it, appeared to be pulled down to -30 or so, under full load, Quad core Intel, longterm load.

That's only in the region of 230 watts, considering the compressor he's using, the condensor, etc.

Besides that, the information about simply 'adding more refrigerant' or 'shortening the captube' is NOT right. You WILL get more capacity out of it, but you'll also be shortening the life of the system due to liquid floodback, or worse, the possibility of actual physical damage due to overcharging.

There are 3 dimensions to phase change and you're overlooking that.

To increase the capacity of a system safely, you need to either physically or thermodynamically increase the system volume.

If you do this correctly, you will never have liquid floodback.

The addition of a small heat exchanger and a desuperheat coil is normally enough to add the needed volume and thermal interference to allow for increased tuning of a system that's been designed for 200w or so. The only reason you would 'need' a larger and/or more efficient condensor is to allow for a more aggressive gas such as 402a to be used. If you were to keep 404a in a system like a Mach2 and just add the parts as stated, to the required level that allows for a combination of shorter captube (to approx. 250w or so) and matched refrigerant charge, then you will end up with a system that's correctly tuned without danger of compressor or actual physical damage.

People can say what they like about VapoLS and Mach2 systems, but they are very precisely engineered to deal with the 200w they are rated for (yes, sometimes they can fall off just below that) and give the best life expectancy possible.

If we are to do equally well with custom systems or capacity upgrades on these retail systems, we need to look in the same direction, with correct tuning and configuring to give an equal level of quality and durability to our systems.

Cheers

Gray

Seeing as I use an LS and want a quad core, I'm interested. Have we any data on volts / frequencies / heat output for these chips? At around what OC is the 200W capacity reached?

will an prometeia (nventiv) mach2gt hold an qx6700? i think so..

Yes and no.

What we're seeing is a far higher rate of heatload increase than with other cpu's. This is to be expected, but it makes the challenge of designing a phase cooler, or modding an existing cooler, that much more involved.

At stock speed and vcore, a mach or vapo will handle the load.

Even with an overclock and some additional vcore, it will.

Figures of late are showing, however, that when pushed farther, and over long high load, Quad cores are pulling into regions that the Mach and Vapo weren't built for.

The original LS Vapo was made for 240w and would be an ideal solution for those who prefer a retail product. Perhaps they will decide to offer that as an option again for the LS, even though it's overall temps wouldn't be as good, at least those buying into quad core and phase cooling could have a guaranteed option.

Cheers

Gray

the mach2gt is very different then the mach2

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the mach2gt is very different then the mach2

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Not so much so.

As for liquid slugback due to shortening the captube, I use accumulators whenever I can find the space.
As for your guess on the wattage range, theres no way to predict it but I do think when people begin pushing very large overclocks, like people like to do after buying a phase unit, the wattage is definitly going to be higher.

Intel has the thermal info if you were to look there. But it would be about x2 Conroes really

I estimated the wattage range based on what I've been finding on the load tester in systems very similar to those currently running on Quad core CPU's.

The Mach2 and GT are very similar, though the gas used is 134a and 404a respectively, the tuning is very close. I've found that early Mach2's are easier to tune for higher loads, but the captube is completely wrapped, where the later GT's are only partially so. The combination of subcooling and heat exchange work well.

I built a load tester on a power supply capable of up to 1200 watts. The current tester itself is only set up for up to 300w, but I could change that if there were a need for it.

An accumulator can help, but in very small systems it may not be enough. Increasing the heat transfer from the captube by soldering it externally, or making a small SLHX in the return circuit, is far more effective. I find a desuperheat coil also helps in that it balances the system and allows for more volume in the high pressure circuit as well.

Gray

I definitly agree with you Gray.
I'm considering brazing/solder the captube on, or adding a SLHX, but if the SLHX isn't something you can buy over and over, its not going to be very reproducable.

My load tester can go to 300 watts.

I don't think there's enough attention being paid to the evaps that are currently in use (especially in the MachX's). With quad cores, we're dealing with a much larger contact patch while our current evap designs generally have the refrigerant exiting the cap tube @ a pinpoint area on the baseplate......

Very good point as well. I think our evaporator designs need to improve.

Noob what sort of cold plate are you using with that load tester. I have started using a 3mm plate to better simulate the cpu.

Unless using a 1hp compressor I don’t think 1/3hp compressor or smaller have enough cold return for a SLHX to work. To stop the flooding of a compressor you need a longer capillary line and charge so at load ya getting 15psi or so at load for capacity. If discharge pressures are too high maybe try a not so high pressure gas like r507 or r404a. I have though of mybe trying s M.B.P compressor instead of L.B.P compressor we have used in the past to run 0-5psi load like in older systems, using a M.B.P compressor might give us better loading results at this pressure and not hurting the compressor at the same time.
Also we need to look at our condensers more and measure the drier temps at load. I have been noticing liquid lines in the 37c and even 40s in the Aussie summer weather systems traped inside cases benching orthos for a few hours. Push pull fans on condenser will help with temps and also needed for higher pressure gasses we use. Im not sure if you have noticed but by shortening capillary lines too short results in driers that are so so hot hurting remps. Also too short a capillary line results in flash gas and discharge pressure that casue crazy compressor temps.
Conversations with jin drewminister I think their using 215w or so. I currently can only do 0-190w, but will so get a some new resitors to run 0-260w for cascades ehehe.

I recently modded a mach2 Gt with the head that was on wasn’t able to hold load very well. First thing I did was cut the accumulator out and changed it to one of my new heads and sent it off last week. I think I used around 2.7m of 0.031” so when the owner gets his Q6700 will report results. Also the 1/3hp dual head unit I made a little while back is going to cool a Q6700 soon, so from their results hopefully ill know what sort of wattage I need to tune future units to.

Would a larger condenser not lower filter temperatures as well as a good bit of subcooling of the capillary and or/filter drier? But driers don't work that cold I heard.

A larger condenser could remove more heat though from the system, along with push pull fans. The thing with subcooling though is you not actually removing any more heat, just lowering the liquid temp before it enters the evap. This is done anyway by wrapping the capillary line around the suction line. You increase capacity of a system by doing this but you still need to get the heat out of the system through the condenser still. If you attach a temp probe just before the drier you will be surprised just hot warm the liquid line is getting. Then you look at a pressure chart to see what pressure you need to properly condenser the refrigerant using and see that its quiet high. By having a too short capillary line you get more flash gas and find that the refrigerant is partially condensing and the a lot of flash gass getting into the capillary line. It most properly condenses in the capillary line, but if it isn’t then its just like having air in the system it wouldn’t help temps, just increase discharge pressure/ which increases compressor temps effecting system temps overall.


Using this program a Q6700 at 1.7v and 4.7ghz we have 425W, but I don’t believe those figures that’s just insane.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

maybe the time has come where ppl just cant run max vcore anymore and vmods are out for sure. For max vcore and vmods ppl are going to need cascades and LN2 tubes.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=130922&page=2

Yes, but thats why I'm moving to .036

The 3 defining factors in capacity are the condensor (and it's airflow), the evaporator, and the metering device (commonly captube in these systems).

The temperature is defined by the refrigerant used and the compressor's ability to move the refrigerant.

This is NOT the end of the story, however.

A properly tuned system should never have liquid floodback, or at least very very little at no load.

The systems we build are very small, and it's very difficult to make them large enough to increase the capacity over what we've been using as a standard.

Wrapping the captube isn't simply for subcooling, it's for heat exchange. It's part of what allows for charging heavily without liquid floodback in a small system. That in itself IS a slhx system. It's just not quite enough when looking for higher loads.

A SLHX isn't just for cascades or for larger compressors, it can be used with any compressor and still be effective if it's needed.

When it comes to captube tuning, the captube and the refrigerant charge should be matched and superheat should be checked so that the system is effective and safe in use. This is part of why I recommend increasing heat exchange on the return if a higher capacity is needed. If this is not done, liquid can and will return under low load.

I suppose people can do what they want as far as tuning goes, but if it's not done properly, and the other reactions dealt with correctly, it can create a system that's designed to fail prematurely.

Gray

are you saying i shoulden't buy a mach2gt fore a qx6700?

Yes if you plan to overclock much..

I should get an tuniq tower over a mach2gt? and yes i'm ocing much

LoL defintitly not, but instead look for a custom phase unit instead thats designed for that size load.

I can't quite figure this out. Is TDP the total wasted (heat) power of the CPU or the power used by the CPU in total, including its secondary function i.e. processing (lol)?

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...s/31559202.pdf

Minimum Tc 5C lololol oh rly?

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Originally Posted by stone_cold_Jimi

I can't quite figure this out. Is TDP the total wasted (heat) power of the CPU or the power used by the CPU in total, including its secondary function i.e. processing (lol)?

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...s/31559202.pdf

Minimum Tc 5C lololol oh rly?

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TDP = Total amount of heat DISSIPATED by the cpu = It's the maximum amount of heat expelled by a particular cpu in the worst possible conditions, i.e. closed case with no airflow, hot ambient, etc.....

Until either Vapo or Prometeia are offered in high load capacity (as the VapoLS previously was) then it doesn't make much sense to buy one if a Quad core is what you'll be using.

If you plan for upgrading to quad core later on, and you're happy with a mach or vapo, then fine. You can always look at it to be modded later on. It's still an extra expense, but some people prefer the safety of a retail unit over custom.

I'm sure you'll find someone who can take care of that for you though, there are quite a few experienced builders here on XS.

Gray

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

I don't think there's enough attention being paid to the evaps that are currently in use (especially in the MachX's). With quad cores, we're dealing with a much larger contact patch while our current evap designs generally have the refrigerant exiting the cap tube @ a pinpoint area on the baseplate......

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Not when you feed the liquid in from the top and let it evaporate on the way down like this.

I've pointed the Vapochill site forum at this thread, got an interesting reply and a reference to a paper suggesting that evap head material and flow-rate might be critical factors (other than choice of gases), without customising for specific CPUs. But how much for a solid silver evap head?

http://www.home.zonnet.nl/wijdeveld/cooling/part1.pdf

It's all interesting stuff, especially to a noob like me :)

[popcorn smilie]

I dont think that changing cap tube is the solution for the bigger load problem.

From what i understand you want to add more subcooling to the liquid, but by doing that you add superheat to the vapour which means you have to dimension the sistem to an even bigger load.

Bottom line, you still have to reconsider the sizing of the compressor and condensor.

You guys thanks fore the warnings but i'll definitly try cooling my quad core with vapo. i meen i just don't know a better cooler you can buy off a store so i'm just gonne have to go with this :D

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Originally Posted by Drag

You guys thanks fore the warnings but i'll definitly try cooling my quad core with vapo. i meen i just don't know a better cooler you can buy off a store so i'm just gonne have to go with this :D

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Just so ya know.......
Been there, done that. Didn't work.
Have a QX6700 on P5B Deluxe. Was running aprox. 3.4ghz/1.4vcore with TTBT/fan upgrade air cooling. Decided to dive into phase. Bought Vapo LS. Installed. Got up to around 3.86ghz/1.56-1.6vcore. Ran about 2-3 weeks like that, seemed to hold at around -32c. Then things went away. Now I have to back down to 3.53ghz/1.35vcore or the LS evap time goes up,up, up until the LS shuts down at -10c. Had to play with the evap fan speed to even hold that, running it at 40%. If I increase the fan speed, temps go up, shutdown. Right now it is holding at -42c, but very touchy. Don't know what went away in the LS, but it is not a lot better than air at this point.
NoL is working on a custom build for me with a compressor much larger than the standard LS (SC12MLX vs the standard NF5.5CLX) and a much larger condenser (about 8" x 8" x 2" vs about 5" x 5" x 2").
I had at least one or two people in this forum reccomend a custom build to me back in December when I was first tossing around the idea of going to phase for my quad. Silly me, I didn't know enough at that time to realize they were right.
Live and learn.
Sooooo.....maybe you can chalk it up to a bum unit, but I would not count on being able to push a quad to it's limits of clock and vcore with a stock Vapo LS. Not trying to tell anybody what to do, just sharing my experience for everybody's benefit.

doesn't mach2gt outperform vapochill ls?

I know one thing....
esdee's cascade with Eleven's evaporator can handle a QX6700 at 3850MHz with 1.68VCore which is aprox. ~340 - 350Watts at -89*C under FULL load....;)

Eleven's evaps proves to be No1 for heavy load.....;)

Do you have a pic of this special evap?
I think you can't compare singlestages with cascades!

Eleven evaps are built in a horizontal plane generally so all evaporation occurs at the same distance form the base. No doubt they are great evaps, but are milled eand not lathed so some people don't have the tools.

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Originally Posted by Drag

doesn't mach2gt outperform vapochill ls?

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Cant generalise like that, both units have different evaps, compressors and gasses, and hence characteristics.
Bring back the rev1 LS, lol, it was all the talk of lower temps over the "usual heat load range" in the first place which got Asetek to lower the capacity. They should have stuck with it!
You can use a GT or LS with a quad core, but will probably not be able to run the max overclock 24/7 given the high heatload.
You should still be able to get a decent overclock, and quad core with a decent overclock is still stunningly quick.

G

i don't seem why, tuniq tower 120 can hold a qx6700 at 4 ghz. so i think 4.2 ghz stable will work. anyway i'm going fore low temps at well not just maximum oc. i don't want my chip to run higher then 50c load

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

TDP = Total amount of heat DISSIPATED by the cpu = It's the maximum amount of heat expelled by a particular cpu in the worst possible conditions, i.e. closed case with no airflow, hot ambient, etc.....

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What about Intels slightly dodgy way of deciding on a TDP?

if the worst case scenario is taken for a TDP rating, that leaves it open to a lot of variables, isnt the power output of the CPU itself constant under all conditions? the only thing that will be different is temperature.

350W for an OCed Kents seems very high, scaling that would put the actual TDP of Conroe around 90+W, not 65W?

About the problem in hand, *VPC aint my strong point* but how many custom builders would choose a DSH coil over a larger condenser? Condenser does the job so much better.

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Originally Posted by K404

if the worst case scenario is taken for a TDP rating, that leaves it open to a lot of variables, isnt the power output of the CPU itself constant under all conditions? the only thing that will be different is temperature.

350W for an OCed Kents seems very high, scaling that would put the actual TDP of Conroe around 90+W, not 65W?

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Not quite sure what you're saying here, but remember that the TDP rating given by Intel is @ DEFAULT vcore and nothing more ;)

I say it again and again:

The TDP is not the power consumption of the chip. And usually not even by far.

The sooner people like in this thread and whoever makes that "xtreme PSU calculator" absorb this very easy to understand fact, the better for all of us.

lol definately true, but for a given set of CPU parameters (ie...stock speed, stock voltage) is there not only one possible CPU power dissipation?

Take a CPU to 40 degrees, 0, -50,-125 the thermal output will still be the same for the speed and voltage wont it?

Are Intel still playing games with their rated TDP? (average load, average conditions etc, not full-load?)

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Originally Posted by uOpt

I say it again and again:

The TDP is not the power consumption of the chip. And usually not even by far.

The sooner people like in this thread and whoever makes that "xtreme PSU calculator" absorb this very easy to understand fact, the better for all of us.

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Just curious if your comment was directed @ me? :p: Because I clearly state that it's the amount of heat (in watts) which is dissipated by the cpu.....

OK...I just did a bit of research and it turns out that Intel's definition of TDP is different than AMD's :rolleyes: My comments regarding TDP can be applied to AMD's only...as for Intel, you guys are on your own :D

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

OK...I just did a bit of research and it turns out that Intel's definition of TDP is different than AMD's :rolleyes: My comments regarding TDP can be applied to AMD's only...as for Intel, you guys are on your own :D

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That was a large part of my point :) I wasnt gonna try an use any other terms in regard to power dissipation until we were all on the same page.

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Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Just curious if your comment was directed @ me? :p: Because I clearly state that it's the amount of heat (in watts) which is dissipated by the cpu.....

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Yes, because it's not.

Of course the amount of heat dissipated is equal to the power consumption, and neither is the TDP. Where do you think the energy would go if not into heat? Unless you overclock so much that a part of the energy goes into light for glowing or a big flash or even a shockwave :) then it's going into heat.

But the TDP is not the dissipated heat.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

Yes, because it's not.

Of course the amount of heat dissipated is equal to the power consumption, and neither is the TDP. Where do you think the energy would go if not into heat? Unless you overclock so much that a part of the energy goes into light for glowing or a big flash or even a shockwave :) then it's going into heat.

But the TDP is not the dissipated heat.

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http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/30430.pdf - pg.29......

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Thermal Design Power (TDP) is measured under the conditions of TCASE Max, IDD Max, and VDD=VID_VDD, and include all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDIO, VLDT, VTT, and VDDA.

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:hm:

be interesting if a builder could use a Q6700 at max oc then see what wattage on a resistor load it takes to give the same temps?
specially one of the hotter steppings

Very good idea kayl! I dont have a quad core but I can right down temperatures of the evap by K-type probe for every 5 watts of load then the new owner can report back to us what temperature!

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Very good idea kayl! I dont have a quad core but I can right down temperatures of the evap by K-type probe for every 5 watts of load then the new owner can report back to us what temperature!

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I would be most happy to do so when I get it in operation!! Keep your logs, and I will let you know what readings I get when it's up and chillin'.

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Very good idea kayl! I dont have a quad core but I can right down temperatures of the evap by K-type probe for every 5 watts of load then the new owner can report back to us what temperature!

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Cool, will you be using a variac to do that?
If you get those results along with some other ppls results we can start to work out ruffly what sort of wattage we need on our load tester to simulate Quad cores.
I might be getting this chip, It’s a Q6700 ES
With Cathars storm and 3x120 GT Stealth radiators at 3ghz and 1.25vcore running orthos for 1 hour loading all core we get 74c die temps , now that’s hot. Imagine 1.7v and 4ghz :eek:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5...67004me.th.jpg

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Originally Posted by kayl

I might be getting this chip, It’s a Q6700 ES
With Cathars storm and 3x120 GT Stealth radiators at 3ghz and 1.25vcore running orthos for 1 hour loading all core we get 74c die temps , now that’s hot. Imagine 1.7v and 4ghz :eek:

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This chip isn't that good...
Mine (retail QX6700) does 3200 Mhz with 1.24V quad-prime and 3690 Mhz 1.4V quad-prime with watercooling -> 1.4V with approx 25°C water temp and 75°C core temp!

btw: I'm going to test the quad under different phase change units... but I can't do it under my own units because I don't have cold-ice feedback about my vacuum pump (it seems that it doesn't work properly)...
And I also need a nice cartridge heater! But I can't get them here...

Basically if you take a stock MAchII add a 8 oz suction accumulator charge it for operation at -32 to-35C with R404 or 507 ( loaded suction pressures of 5 to PSIG you should have better results at load and stability but you total system charge should be kept at 10 to 12 OZ and you will also need to add an economiser in teh suction line between the suctionline and the accumulator.

The vapo will need a larger displacment compressor, a suitable compressor of 9 cc to 11 cc for 60hz and 11 to 12 cc for 50hz should work with teh previous mods andcharge.

The capillary tubing can staythe samebut alittle larger one willgive you higher effeciency, maybe 0.028 , 0.031 os simmilar 93 inches to 120 inches respectively.

Mach2 is so old :p i'm getting mach2gt !

Economiser?
I havent heard of that before, someone care to explain?

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Originally Posted by {.bLanK} GoD

If the heat load was too much, wouldn't the compressor die from overheating due to the lack of suction cooling?

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is this confirmed?

drag, no that is not true. when the heat load is too much the refrigerant flow is actually at maximum. Compressors aren't meant to be cooled by liquid refrigerant (well some are but not the ones we use).

possible to liquid cool the compressor? there's a new mod for someone aha

i'll just try, within 5 weeks i hope. the asus striker extreme is a pain to get in stock over here

Hmmm thanks to Runmc, Under-the-Ice may begin stocking some .036 ID capillary line for the higher load units that are becoming more and more popular!

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Economiser?
I havent heard of that before, someone care to explain?

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I think it's a liquid subcooler . Or in other words a SLHX .

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Originally Posted by TopherTony

possible to liquid cool the compressor? there's a new mod for someone aha

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Thought of that a while ago...a waterblock like a cap (hat, not capillary) for the top of the compressor, but it wouldnt be worth it...also expensive

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Originally Posted by K404

Thought of that a while ago...a waterblock like a cap (hat, not capillary) for the top of the compressor, but it wouldnt be worth it...also expensive

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Has anyone considered building a large heat sink, or many small heat sinks, that could be fitted over the compressor. i.e. adding fins to it to get dissipate the heat quicker when using a fan.

Properly building to the heatload will let the compressors run at the temperatures they should run at. We don't need to start special cooling our compressors.

Can't do any harm though can it, especially as most units have a fan moving air around the compressor anyway which could also be considered as 'special cooling'? :)

Nah as thats pretty standard.

Is it standard for when these compressors are not used for cooling computers? Eg in a fridge

Many times so that if you look at condensing units, they are either fan cooled and/or cooled by the suction cooling provided by the refrigerant.

Ah sorry, i thought that with fridges etc only the condenser was cooled not the actual compressor.

I had actually thought about extra cooling for the compressor shell a few days ago after noticing how hot the compressor in my overloaded stock LS gets.
Nothing crazy, maybe just some fins strapped around the shell to give some heat dissipation area to the shell itself with a hose clamp type arrangement. I wonder if the hvac folks have such an accessory available?

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Originally Posted by harvshark

I had actually thought about extra cooling for the compressor shell a few days ago after noticing how hot the compressor in my overloaded stock LS gets.
Nothing crazy, maybe just some fins strapped around the shell to give some heat dissipation area to the shell itself with a hose clamp type arrangement. I wonder if the hvac folks have such an accessory available?

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I can't say for 100% that there is not a device to suit your needs, but I suspect it's going to be extremely unlikely that you find something commercially.

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Originally Posted by Unknown_road

drag, no that is not true. when the heat load is too much the refrigerant flow is actually at maximum. Compressors aren't meant to be cooled by liquid refrigerant (well some are but not the ones we use).

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I never said anything about cooling compressors with liquid refrigerant.
I mentioned "suction cooling".

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Originally Posted by {.bLanK} GoD

If the heat load was too much, wouldn't the compressor die from overheating due to the lack of suction cooling?

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Our compressors rely on cold "GAS" returning to the compressor to help cool it down. What happens if your unit is a little under charged? One symptom is the compressor will get very hot.

So if you have a greatly increased heat load on your LS for example, the suction temp will go up. Which means less cooling to the compressor. And over an extended period of time will cause damage to the compressor.

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Hmmm thanks to Runmc, Under-the-Ice may begin stocking some .036 ID capillary line for the higher load units that are becoming more and more popular!

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I have been using 0.031 on all units and they are more than capable of cooling high loads.

I think the limitations is mostly compressor and evaporator, I dont think the problem here is cappilary tubing.

NF9FX simply is not good enough, Over here in Europe/UK NL11f just about cuts it.

I dont think current evaporators can handle much more than 250w without problems, especially stepper/spirals.

As technology plays out, compressors are getting more effiecient. Some companies have very efficient compressor ranges that have higher displacement and lower power consumption than the popular Danfoss models.

I think people are stuck on Danfoss compressors for some reason thinking its the best out there. In my experience its not.

That works, or switch to a longer length like .036, which is equivalent to half its length in .031. 6ft of .031 becomes 12ft of .036

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

That works, or switch to a longer length like .036, which is equivalent to half its length in .031. 6ft of .031 becomes 12ft of .036

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I think you've got it backwards ;) But even if the numbers were switched, they don't actually calculate to be anywhere near equal :confused:

No, for an equal "flow?", youd need a longer length of a larger ID to equal the shorter run of a smaller ID. If you got shorter and wider you'd be quadrupling flow I'd imagine. But those two sizes by charts for capillary sizing are a two:one ratio for .036:.031

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

No, for an equal "flow?", youd need a longer length of a larger ID to equal the shorter run of a smaller ID. If you got shorter and wider you'd be quadrupling flow I'd imagine. But those two sizes by charts for capillary sizing are a two:one ratio for .036:.031

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Jesus...I'm stupid...I read your post wrong - sorry....it's WAAAY too early for me :coffee:

Hahaha i was thinking, come on stephen, thats not like you :P

i don't know what to do know should i buy an mach2gt yes ore no?

Its not a linear line from some of what I've seen. 6 feet would be good for a quad core with heavy overclock, change it over to .036 to get enough for proper subcooling and the length also helps with the pressure drop. I'm going to test this length, but I may start with 14 feet and work down (7 feet of .031)

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Originally Posted by SoddemFX

Do you have a quad core?

Tom

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I don't mean to speak for him, I don't think NoL has a quad, but he is working with me on a custom build for my QX6700, using a SC12MLX, with .036 cap and large condensor. Shooting for tuning at 300w with his load tester, which will provide him with a 300w power load to simulate the quad at very high OC. It is a work in progress.

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Originally Posted by SoddemFX

Do you have a quad core?

Tom

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Yes i'm getting qx6700

I do not have a quad, but I have a very accurate load tester.

i'm getting qx6700 should i buy a mach2gt?

The concensus is NO, unless you plan to get it modded. Please read the entire thread.

Have to remember there soddem, clamp meters are not accurate enough to measure current. even a fluke. For an accurate reading you need to wire the ammeter in series with the load. Most clamp meters have a guaranteed accuracy of +/- 30%

Yeah I think the idea of myself using this size capillary, which should indeed work well, and then tune the unit, AND THEN record the evap temperature at every 5watt increment, then Harv can tell us what the evaporator temperature is and I can say what the wattage is.

yes thats a good idea there Nol
We need to collate as much data as we can about these warm processors. :)
Keepa is getting close to getting all the bits he needs for the beast he his building. I think he finally decided on a QX6700. I'll share his results when they come in. That's going under the 500w chiller i built btw. :)

Ah k, only waiting on the .036 to build Harv's unit and then we'll have our load number in a few weeks. Until then I think we can find another method maybe?

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Originally Posted by SoddemFX

Hi dude,

Just checked the specs of the Fluke meter we have at work and it's +/- 1% +/- 2mA

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Are you sure that is with using the clamp? not wiring the ammeter in series?
Double check please :)
I may be wrong :rolleyes:
even so. I wouldn't be asking for readings from noobs with $10 clamp meters. That will not give you the stats you want. +/- 30% is a far to greatly varying reading done by cheap meters.