All vmods can be found at VR-Zone except for the Vdroop mod.
Vdroop mod:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1...1848617xs1.jpg
Printable View
All vmods can be found at VR-Zone except for the Vdroop mod.
Vdroop mod:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1...1848617xs1.jpg
They would be similiar to the ones for the P5N32-E SLI. Check the thread started by OPPAINTER in this section for details.
DDTUNG:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDTUNG
They are not the same ....
These are pix for P5N-E 650i SLI:
http://members.cox.net/hung1410/dsc_3879.jpg
Close-up
http://members.cox.net/hung1410/dsc_3902.jpg
This is what I got out of the thread:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5052/dsc3902sy1.jpg
These should be right, but I haven't tried them. Also, the solder points are damn small. You'd have to find out which of the resistors each leg corresponds to to make it easier.
:O nice find, so when are you going to test this mod?
why on earth would you need a 1k resistor ? (1000, ie; 1megaohm)
It's what celemine1gig says :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
1k is 1000 OhmsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
1M is 1000000 Ohms
Why you need 1M:
Have a look here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=126019
I recommended a 1M trimmer because the original resistance on the Asus P5N32-E was 59K.
What you do when adding the trimmer, is adding resistance in parallel to the original resistance. With the trimmer set to full resistance you want only a small influence on the original value. Now using the formula for parallel resistance you get the following with a 1M trimmer:
(59K x 1000K) / (59K+1000K) = 55,71K
55,71K / 59K = 0.944 , i.e. 94,4%
That means that with the poti in place and at full resistance you still get ~5.6% decrease in total resistance. ;) If you take a lower value trimmer, you'll get a higher decrease, i.e. the voltage will be increased (perhaps even siginficantly) when the poti is yet to be trimmed.
But please measure resistance for this board and don't just take the values from other boards for granted. There can be quite some differences. The values named above are solely for the P5N32-E! :fact:
Mod's it's the same as OPP question ?
??
Regards
Martin
sory for english but is 31 december :toast:
Bump :)
Hmm vcore vcore for P5N-E is the same as P5W DH/P5B Dlx or not :confused: This is the same controler :rolleyes:
Anyone help ?
Regards
Martin
Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
thanks for the info guy.
and also correcting me on the megaohm not sure what i was thinking lol
i dont think i have seen anything over a 200k used.. 1mega seems pretty rediculous.
but this board needs a droop mod BADLY, and needs to be done on an easier spot.
the spot shown here is impossible. i mean you would need a soldering tip the size of the head of a needle to do it.
please tell me someone has found a better way.
Hmmm trace route from FB4 for this what I marked :confused:
Is this ok :rolleyes:
edit : resistance beetwen FB4 and marked point's is 10 Ohm
Bumpy bump :p:
I try and solder 50k Ohm to point marked on my previous post.
Tune down and nothing :( Still the same vcore no more :nono:
With a original resistance of ~10 Ohm, the 50K trimmer is a bit overkill. That's also most likely the reason why you didn't see any vcore increase. It takes some time until the vcore would decrease, with the 50K in place. I'd rather use a 10K trimmer for this board then. ;) And be sure to use a appropriate ground. That could also be why your mod didn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVIL K-ce
Oh and are you 100% sure that the contact that you marked with a red line is really directly connected to pin#4(FB)? The resistance between the point and the pin should read less than 1 Ohm when measured with a multimeter.
Take a multimeter, set it to continuity test mode and then look for alternative solder points. ;) It's as easy as that. Shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes, even when taking the mainboard out of the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
In my previous post I'm writing wrong data :
Resistance beetwen this FB4 and marked point's is 0.10 Ohms not 10 Ohm :slap: ---> sory
Yes I'm sure trace route from FB4 is to this marked point.
Hmm 10K Ohm :) - I try this way :toast:
Thank's
Regards
Martin
Hold on!!! I thought the resistance between ground a pin#4 would be 10 Ohms. Sorry, I got this wrong. Don't use a 10K trimmer then. The trimmer value depends solely on the resistance between pin#4 and ground in this case. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVIL K-ce
Heh ok I understand :)Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
Pin 4 and ground - 10 Ohm :toast:
Ok I check this resistance i reaply.
Regards
Martin
edit :
ok i check and ... :| PIN4 and ground nothing :| PIN3 and ground - 22.2 Ohm
What do you want to say with "nothing"? There is always a resistance between feedback and ground. Are you sure that the range was correct when measuring?Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVIL K-ce
DMM show me nothing when I meansure PIN4 and ground :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
DMM is ok, range is set ok.
I'm :confused:
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4450&s=12
try that i guess?
:banana: :YIPPIE:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaII
Man thank's
I check vr-zone some days ago and nothing :p: Good review
post back your results!
Hmmm ... quick question. How would you "pencil"? It seems soldering is not my fav. ... :D ....
Did you try with 220kOhm range ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVIL K-ce
Ok i test vcore mod (soldering) in night and is ok. Work good.
500MHz FSB is no problem with max vmch from bios :D
Thank's for Shamino.
Regards
Martin
I did a continuity check and all that. Resistance between pin 17 and pin 16 is 125-130 kohm. I don't know which one of the two points to use.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4507/dsc3902mu9.jpg
I also got 1.2 kohms between FB and ground. Does that sound right?
Any updates on vdroop mod?
the board's vdrop is baaaaad. 1.45V in bios, 1.43V actual, 1.37V under orthos load at only 3ghz with an e4300. I wonder what an OCed QuadCore would do to this poor power design.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but can't the board be upgraded to 4 phase design with soldering the MOSFETs, the coil, the IC with 8 legs and some smd components to the empty mounting points on the PCB right next to the NB? Seems to me, there will be a P5N-E+ version of the board with the same PCB but with 4-phase power design.
What about adding capacitors to every empty mount point for round capacitors. Maybe it would help with 1T overclocking stability. When doing this, is there something, to pay attention to (capacitance, voltage of the capacitor to use...)??? I would like to do that mod, maybe Hipro5 would have to say something about this idea.
-- atached pictures with the empty power regulation area on the mobo. doable?
http://shrani.si/thumbs/pict1430r9st.jpg
empty area - you can see where the coil and the fets go, also the 8 leged IC and other smd parts
http://shrani.si/thumbs/pict1432r9ss.jpg
populated area
here we have the following SMD components representing one phase:
-3 power FETs
-1 coil
-2* 1R0 smd resistor with 1Ohm resistance each
-2* 822 smd resistor with 8.2kOhm resistance each
-1 4.3Ohm smd resistor
-4 smd capacitors of (at this time) unknown capacitance
-3110 IC
-fuse
perhaps i can get a hold of these and mount them, is the job done then?
would this work? or are there also limits within the mobo's BIOS, so adding components would cause nothing but troubles?
Any updates on the vdroop mod?
OK, I thought everything was clear, but I don't have much free time at hand ATM, so please just do the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
Please double check the resistance between pin#16 and pin#17 according to this post from couppi:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=26
Now if the stated ~130K between these two pins are correct, then the info from the first pic also applies. That means you'd have to use at least a 1M trimmer potentiometer for this mod.
(130k x 1000k) / (130k + 1000k) = ~115k
115k / 130k = ~88.5%
That means a 1M resistor already decreases the original resistance by upto ~11.5%. That's a bit much for my liking, but as the droop seems to be so bad on that board, it could work very well without any harm.
Try it, as always on your own risk. You know that you have to adjust the potentiometer until the vcore at idle and at load are identical. Don't overdo it, thus vcore at load is higher than at idle! That wouldn't be good. If the 1M shouldn't be enough, just add another 500k trimmer in series to the 1M, for a total of 1.5M resistance. With the 1.5M the decrease in resistance compared to the original value would still be about 7.5%. But as I said, you'll have to try. I guess that the 1M trimmer will work fine.
The alternate solder points are already marked in couppi's pic. You could also double check these, but I doubt that he made a mistake there.
Thanks celemine1gig. I'm going to try this as soon as I get my hands on a soldering iron. Can someone please double check my measurements? I'm not sure that I got everything right.
Thanks for coming back, Celemine.
I'd be testing those spots right now--but I gave my multimeter away when I moved. Guess I have an excuse to buy a new one...
Couppi, a soldering iron is $5-$10 at Radio Shack. You don't need anything fancy, just get the one with the finest tip and the lowest wattage.
Ok, this is a measurement of actual vdrop during load. 1.525V selected in bios. With the +100mV disabled
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/16/17/3fa0188c_vdrop_idle.jpg
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/16/17/44f039e4_vdrop_load.jpg
Thanks zeeke. What voltage is your bios reporting at those settings. When I select 1.4625 my bios reports 1.39, just curious to what difference you get with your board. Your meter reconfirms software voltage monitoring is next to useless.
He said above he selected 1.525v in the bios, which splits the difference between the load and idle voltages. :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron 61
Yeah your observation seems to be right.Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
Could very well be likely that ASUS intentionally adjusted the boards so that they give a little higher VCore in idle, thus the window for droop get's wider and they could safe even more money than when calculating from the voltage really selected in BIOS. Quite smart move when judged by a commercial point of view. For us enthusiasts it's the other way round unfortunately. :stick: :(
Yes thats obvious, I asked what his bios was reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
I'll check, in the middle of 3dmarkin now, but if i remember correctly its something like 1.36 during load. Dunno idle. It doesnt really matter since its way off..
What I am interested in is when you are in the bios what does hardware monitor report for vcore versus the vcore your meter shows. Thanks.
1.6V selected is reported as 1.53V in BIOS and is 1.58V measured @ IDLEQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron 61
Thank you zeeke.
sorry for the noob question but I hope someone can help me
I need to get a bit more vcore out of this board to get stable at 4 gig
what can I expect from the pencil mod shown here?
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4450&s=12
Will it just mean I get more volts than I currently get when I set 1.6 vcore in the bios? how much increase can I expect?
Do you just scrub a line with a 2b pencil between the points shown ( first attempt at volt mods )?
First of all, get yourself a multimeter, its worth the small investment so you dont burn your cpu when you do the vmod. You have to be able to measure the voltage if you do a pencil mod, because there is now way to say just how much you will lower the resistance with each stroke. In that way, soldering a trimpot is safer, and more accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by inspector-71
i have oneQuote:
Originally Posted by zeeke
So if I understand correctly after some reading
I should measure the default resistance with the motherboard disconnected from the power.
I know the current vcore from the bios or other measurement
I can calculate the current from ohm's law
then I pencil the resistor (using a 2b pencil)
measure the new resistance
calculate the expected vcore and if it's safe give it a go
Arrgh, in Celemine's post above (#30) he first says that you'd need to use a "1K" trimmer, then all references after that are to a "1M" trimmer. I know he initally meant to say "1M", but damnit I saw "1K" and that's what I bought at the store today. Of course I paused and stared at the "1M" for a couple of minutes and wondered if I was getting the right one. I should have bought both--but didn't. Guess where I'm going back later this week?
Sorry bout that! Did just edit the posting with the right "1M" value.Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
I finished doing all the soldering. Before I fire it up, I just have a few questions.
I can measure voltage from any one of the 3 copper coils around the cpu, right? Is it alright to solder a wire at this point so I can easily read the vcore?
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8264/legsolderst2.jpg
Do I need to set my multimeter to a special setting to measure the voltage through the CPU? Isn't there around 100a of current going through this thing?
Me personally, I wouldn't add a wire, as it could act like an antenna and add noise to the vcore, but could also be that the influence in negliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by couppi
And you don't need a special setting when measuring VCore. What you do when measuring voltage is measuring in parallel with an internal resistance of the multimeter of about 10M Ohm (10 000 000 Ohm). That means a 10M resistor parallel to the resistance of the circuit. So, no special setting needed, as there's nearly no influence on the circuit when measuring. ;) Current always takes the path of lowest resistance, so why should 100A flow through a 10M resistor, when there's a different path with way lower resistance. ;)
After doing the mod, I'm getting 1.404v idle and 1.395v load with 1.4v selected in BIOS. Great success!
With 1.5v set in BIOS, I'm getting 1.498v idle, 1.486 load. The BIOS voltage reporting is waaay off. Asus probe tells me 1.44v idle, 1.33v load.
Congrats, glad for your success.:toast:
Hi couppi, two questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by couppi
1. Is it possible to adjust the trimpot to get even lower drop?
2. Are you still experiencing that the drop gets even worse with higher voltage, have you tried with 1.6V?
and what mod are you talking about, considering all talk of this mod has been nothing but speculation, what did you mod and please show pictures if possible.
I did the Vdroop mod. Before the mod I was getting .04~.06v drops at load. Now I only get .01v drop at load. Just connect these two points with a 1 mohm resistor. I guess you could do this mod by pencil if you penciled the resistance down to 105~110 kohms.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1...1848617xs1.jpg
1. .01v drop was the best it would get. When I lowered the resistance any further, it raised both the idle and the load voltage.Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeke
2. I haven't tried that yet, but I will.
I guess that the 1M resistor is too flaky in the lower regions (the trimmer's not linear and the low resistance range changes qickly). Try this: Connect a 500k trimmer in series with a 100k trimmer and use that. This way you get a total of 600k and 500k in 15-20 turns + 100k in the same number of turns. This increases precision dramatically. You could also just add a smaller trimmer in series to the 1M trimmer. Let's say a 200, 100 or even 50k and use that for fine tuning. You should be able to adjust it easier/finer then. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by couppi
Thanks for being the first to test and confirm, Couppi!
My new multimeter was delivered this morning, but I still have to trek back to the electronics shop to get the right trimmer(s).
EDIT:
Ok, so the possibility of a pencil mod to fix the vdroop was mentioned, and I figured, "what the heck..."
I measured initial resistance, with the power off, of the resistor shown in the mod photo and I also got ~130k ohms.
So now I'm setting about to do the pencil mod...
I've not been able to measure the vcore directly from the motherboard because I'm not clear on how to do it. It's been 14 years since high school electronics, and even then we never got to tinker with computers. Looking at the VR-Zone page I see the mosfet leg to measure, but where should I ground out?
you can use any groundpoint you like on motherboard, easiest to locate is the mounting holes you use to fasten it in the chassis. Or you can use the third pin of a fan connector, where the black cable goes.
Thanks, Zeeke. Oh, and thanks a million Celemine for coming back to this thread and solidifying the vdroop mod for us!
My board measured different inital resistance compared to Couppi. I got half the original resistance he measured! I came in at 65k ohm. My meter is new so I tested it on another known resistance and it was correct. Soooo....
I went ahead and did a pencil mod on the resistor. Pre-mod, my board-measured vcore was 1.46 at idle, 1.40 at load. I dropped the resistance in stages, and found that 28k ohm was nearly ideal. Pre-mod, I set my bios at "1.38125v" to get those above voltages. But at 28k ohm, my idle voltage rose up to 1.49v. So, I dropped the bios setting down to "1.300000v" which gives me slightly more than 1.40v at idle and about 1.40v at load.
ORTHOS testing now, I was right at the minimum stable voltage for my clock rate before. I'm running an E4300 at 3256mhz (stable). However, pre-mod it would boot up at 3600mhz with lots of voltage, but ORTHOS would fail within seconds. Maybe it's time to try that again! :D
Redo the mod! The Droop-Mod is not there to increase idle volts. ;) It's just to adjust idle to load voltage. There should be no change in idle volts compared to a unmodded board.Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
Where do you measure vcore for this board? Ive tried the leg shown at vr zone with mb mounting holes for ground and I get 1.15v. I have 1.46 selected in bios and asus probe shows 1.41 at idle so 1.15 is not right. Ive tried 2 known good DMM that give correct readings for my video card and psu rails. Is there another point to measure vcore. Any help would be much appreciated.
Use the fan connector (black wire) as ground. You'll get better result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron 61
Thanks sbinh I tried fan connector ground but its still way off. 1.22v idle 1.17 load. I want to do the vdroop mod but I can't do it when I can't even get accurate vcore readings. Have you measured your vcore with dmm and if so what did you get?
Are you sure you're taking a reading for vCore and not the chipset or something else? Triple check your metering spot because nobody else has had a problem. If you're at the right spot, check your meter on a known voltage like a fresh AA battery which will read ~1.6v.
Im taking reading from the top leg of the mosfet shown in the vr zone guide. Ive checked meter with batteries and other known voltages and it reads exactly what it should.I don't know why I'm getting 1.22v.
These are what I just got .....
1st pic ... ground directly from PSU
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1170730067
2nd pic.. ground from motherboard ...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&d=1170730067
vcore in BIOS: 1.5375v .... speedfan: 1.47v ......
All vcore is at idle ... 400x9
When loaded, it drops down to 1.41v (in speedfan .. maybe 1.44v with DMM)
i did the vdroop mod now. tuned it so, that the difference between idle&load is minimal. 1.550V idle and 1.549V under orthos load or 1.443V idle and 1.442V under orthos with different voltage setting through bios.
now it's time to find new voltage settings for a stable OC with this mod. hope, i can drop the volts a bit :)
After soldering a 50K for vmod......
BIOS set to 1.49375v ---
http://members.cox.net/sbinh/1.493v/...dle_1.493v.jpg
Speedfan (4.32 Beta) idle shows 1.50v ---
http://members.cox.net/sbinh/1.493v/...dle_1.493v.jpg
DMM idle shows: 1.542v ---
http://members.cox.net/sbinh/1.493v/...dle_1.493v.jpg
Speedfan (4.32 Beta) loaded shows 1.44v ---
http://members.cox.net/sbinh/1.493v/...ded_1.493v.jpg
DMM loaded shows: 1.490v ---
http://members.cox.net/sbinh/1.493v/...ded_1.493v.jpg
Edited: using wrong term .. it's should be vmod - not vdroop.
why did you solder a 50k for vdroop when you are supposed to use a 1M ?
Did the Vdroop mod today, got the drop pretty stable. But I can confirm that the idle voltage DOES rise at some point. Before Vmod idle volt were 1.58V, and load 1.54V, efter mod, idle 1.60V and load 1.60V-1.59V. Res is to low on my multimeter to adjust it any better.
Have to say that so far my system doesnt seem more stable thou ;( But I have to play around with it for a couple of hours before final judgement..
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/16/42/43f2329e2vdroop_mod.jpg
ok first off i have no clue what i'm doing but I did two pencil mods and now this mobo is running voltage solid as a rock. I used to have need about 1.52 to get the cpu stable at 3.3ghz now it only needs 1.42.
The first point I penciled was the point given in VR and that made the voltages i entered into the bios actually show up after i rebooted.
The second point I penciled was that point that couppi pointed out and that got rid of my vDroop completely.
I used a 4B pencil and did about 5 strokes on the 2nd point and about 30 on the first point.
Do you remember what the resistance was on the vdroop cap after the mod?Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedaname
Or anyone know the resistance after the vdroop mod?
Thanks
*EDIT*
ok, my vdroop cap measures 145k stock before mod. Gonna do some pencil surgery and report back...
OK .... I did play around with this board for almost 2 hrs .....
and try to vdroop using pencil (PaperMate 2 HB) ....
Decided to remove the vmod I did earlier and apply vdroop mod...
This is what I did
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/800...ncilmodvi2.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8...cilmod2bd6.jpg
As you can see in my previous post, those are before vdroop (after vmod .. which is suck :D)
This is what I got after vdroop:
vcore set= 1.500v
vcore in BIOS monitor= 1.47v
At IDLE
vcore in speedfan=1.47v
vcore in DMM=1.501v
At LOADED
vcore in speedfan=1.44v
vcore in DMM= 1.48v
I know, it is not the best yet (compare to what Couppi did), but I am happy with it ... Used to set vcore to 1.525v to run E6600@3.5GHz .. now, running same speed at lower vcore (1.5v) .. (which can be lower at least 1 notch)
Ok, big thanks to couppi for the vdroop mod.
Resistance was 145k before and 33.5k after
Here are my results:
Bios: 1.40v
Actual Idle: 1.44v
Actual Load: 1.43v
I've got a question regarding my meter readings. My vcore is incredibly stable now thanks to the mod, but I'm unsure what is my actual voltage.
With Vcore set at "1.375v" in the bios, the bios hardware monitor reports 1.39v. My meter set at "2000m" reports 1.342v, but my meter set at "20" reports 1.48v.
Testing the meter at the same settings on AA and AAA batteries doesn't show any discrepancy between the "2000m" and "20" settings. Further, all testing of the vcore was done with the same ground (fan pin header, fan set to 100%).
I also metered the Vchipset at 1.372v on "2000m" or 1.43v on "20". It's set at "1.393v" in the bios.
Vmem also couldn't meter at the "2000m" setting, but reports 2.12v at "20". It's set at "2.085v" in the bios.
Is this the result of voltage ripple? At which setting, "2000m" or "20" am I to believe the readings? Should I have spent more than $5 on a meter? ;)
i think you should spend a bit more on the meter and get 1 that can go down to 2
:ROTF: :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by dlxmax
Do you know how many strokes you did? I will be doing this as soon as I get home to see if I can get this OC stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbinh
Don't rely on number of strokes because it depends on how hard each person push pencil on the resistor.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK
In my case, I don't know how many strokes I put on that resistor.... But one thing I know that I brought it down from 130kiloOhm to 77.6kiloOhm.
If it is too much, erase it and reapply ... :D
You need a Digital multimeter to measure size of resistor, vcore ...... You can buy one at RadioShack ...
I've got a DMM, I just wanted to know if there was a specefic drop in Ohm's with each stroke. So 77.6kohm is about where I should aim?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbinh
Yup .. I got 3 values 77.6, 78.3 and 82.4 and 77.+ seems to be best out of those 3. If you are able to get around 77-77.6, that would be good.
Play around with it, you might find a better spot :D ....
pencil mods will just end up going wrong.
they are too volatile and unreliable.
the voltages/ohms/amps/watts just fluctuate all over the place.
extremely dangerous.
and after my last experience with Shamino's pencil mod's, i wont ever trust another one of his mods. (they dont even test them), they rely on us to do it and fry our hardware.
so you take that for whats its worth.
How? You blow off excess graphite and put tape over it. How is it going to "end up going wrong"?Quote:
"pencil mods will just end up going wrong."
I have an x800 with pencil mods that are 3 years old. It's been going right for 3 years.
Using a multi-meter, measurements are exact. My vdroop mod is reliable, if you ask me. I used to have vdroop and now I don't.Quote:
they are too volatile and unreliable.
My volts stay where I put them, thanks to the vdroop mod!Quote:
the voltages/ohms/amps/watts just fluctuate all over the place.
If the mod were to corrupt (somehow) I would have vdroop again. No big deal. Not even slightly dangerous.Quote:
extremely dangerous.
By the way, what mod did you have go wrong?
Sorry to say that, but if you really feel the need to modify your hardware, you need to be aware of the fact that something can go wrong. And even "gurus" like shamino can't test every single mod on their own. They get asked for mods and do the best to help the community. If it goes wrong, that's bad, but when doing a mod you need to keep in mind that things like that can happen anytime. If you can't bare the risk, then don't modify. Or learn how to work out mods on your own in order to know what you are doing, giving you some kind of security while performing the mods. ;) Don't misunderstand me, no offence taken. I understand your point, but you also have to respect the work that, in your example, shamino puts into working out these mods. Nobody's perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
if you cant test a mod for validity then you god damn well better not be posting it on your freakin website as a valid mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
Kuunak even told me not to do the pencilmod on the DS3 for vdroop as it would FRY the motherboard.
when i asked him then why the hell is the mod still being shown on vrzone, he stopped talking to me and hasnt said a word since.
the point is if you can test it dont post it as a valid mod.
all your doing is fvcking with peoples minds and hardware.
Well anyway the pencil mods that are in this thread DO work. I've tried the vdroop and vcore mod and they both worked perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I think like anything on the internet you can't just take it at face value. You really have to dig down deep and find out as much as you can before doing any kind of mods. You can't just do something because someone else told you. If you're going to do a mod you have to make sure you understand the risks you take. It always sucks when something screws up but in the end there's no one else you can blame but yourself because you're the one who did it without finding out what you're really doing. I have to admit myself that I took a risk when I did the mods but I did cross reference the chip with other boards before doing it. Also I knew that if the board died on me I could get it replaced without costing me too much.
I did the vdroop mod and it worked very well. I need to redo it again because I can't stop messing with it. ( still .02v droop). Has anybody done a vmch mod with a pencil?
Pantera did you do the 2 locations or just 1 location ?
i cant take the droop anymore.
when you hit about 1.5v the droop is insane 0.10v atleast
so that means 1.4v load.
but my board is working so good i dont want to !$%^ it up.
*EDIT*
oops. those two pictures are of the same thing, just the bottom picture is rotated.
Are you measuring with a DMM? PC Probe's results are pretty much BS. Even after the vdroop mod, with 1.5v selected in BIOS and showing on my DMM, PC Probe gives me 1.44v idle, 1.32 load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Before the mod, I was getting around .05 ~ .06v droop at load, which is still pretty awful, but it's nothing close to what PC probe was reading.
After the mod, I get only .02v droop at the most. It increased stability a lot for me. I don't like pencil mods either, but it is working until I have time to put the VR on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
holy crap the vdroop on my board is TERRIBLE. With a BIOS setting of 1.4v and +100mV OFF I get (measured with a DMM):
(at 129.5k ohms before mod)
1.337v idle
1.264v load
Droop of .073V
I took the resistance down to 77.3k ohms and here's what I get:
1.355v idle
1.285v load
Droop of .07v
So that essentially did nothing for vdroop...it helped by like .003v, which is well within the error for the multimeter. The only good thing it did was increase voltage by .02 so its closer to what I set in bios.
Now what? Should I take the resistance down even more or ....?
Raise the resistance up a little bit ..... like 77.6 to 77.8
I'm just curious what .2ohms is going to do? I tried 70.6ohms and there was very little difference from 77.6ohms (i dont remember the exact values, just that there was little difference). Going from 77.6 to 77.8 is going to be virtually impossible with a pencil... I'm not skilled enough to solder on the 1M resistor in parallel.
Sorry for confusing .. what I meant was that you need to raise it from what you have (77.3 to 77.6 or 77.8) ...
Yup .. it takes lots of time and effort ... Erase ... apply ... erase ... then apply ... :D :D
Yea...I wish I could solder cause this would be so much easier! One day I'll actually get off my ass and practice on some old boards.
Why is everyone getting different resistance values though? 28.5k ohms, 33k ohms, 105k ohms, 77k ohms...?.
Edit: Okay so I've tried 70k ohms, 77.3 k ohms, 77.8 k ohms, 96.2 k ohms, 109.5 k ohms, and 129.5 k ohms and there is very little difference in vdroop... almost 0.07V every time. What are the risks to going down to 28.5/33 k ohms as others have had success with?
I'm pretty confused with what decreasing the resistance of this actually does???
edit 2 and 3 and 4: more results...
1.343v idle 82.7k ohms
1.283v load 82.7k ohms
.06vdroop
1.345v idle 77.6k ohms
1.285v load 77.6k ohms
.06vdroop
1.350v idle 66.7k ohms
1.295v load 66.7k ohms
.055vdroop
1.351v idle 57.3k ohms
1.307v load 57.3k ohms
.044vdroop
1.3431v idle 41.6k ohms
1.310v load 41.6k ohms
.033vdroop
1.361v idle 31.5k ohms
1.328v load 31.5k ohms
.033vdroop
1.362v idle 27.6k ohms
1.331v load 27.6k ohms
.031vdroop
1.356v idle 20.7k
1.330v load 20.7k
.026vdroop
1.348v idle 14.9k
1.327v load 14.9k
.021vdroop
1.348v idle 12.4k
1.327v load 12.4k
.021vdroop
1.357v idle 9.75k
1.338v load 9.75k
.019vdroop
So it looks like I'm stuck at ~.02vdroop...not as good as I had hoped
Bump...I could really use some help :(
From my own experiments, the mod depends on voltage level that you set.
When you increase vcore, you might need to re-apply the mod.
Like I mentioned on previous posts, vcore was at 1.500v ... I tried to raise vcore up few notches last weekend .. guess what, vdroop changed from 0.003 to 0.04 (back to nornal) ....
In your case, like couppi said, you might only need to take that resistance down to 90-100K
well i finally got around to doing the crazy pencil mod and,, well. i'm shocked
1.4 bios = 1.42 bios and windows (idle)
Orthos Gromacs load 100% = 1.44v
Prime load = 1.42v
for a grand total of ZERO DROOP. or 0.02v INCREASE if its 100% both cores.
i went back and forth over the resistor maybe 8 times with a pencil
It would be interesting for an electrical engineer to analyse this circuit to let us know what its actually doing. Varying the pencil resistance by less than 10% makes no sense. Its ohms law, not voodoo. It behaves is regulated and predictable ways. Eg; 77.6 verses 77.2 would make negligible difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Kobalt what you have done looks good. It seems that vdroop improves as resistance decreases. If we took it just on these figures, you'd expect that dropping the resistance to 0 would give use no droop. However, what if this resistor is part of a feedback circuit or part of some other aspect of power regulation? Without knowing its full function, something else could be dangerously affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexx
I took it all the way down to 5k ohms I believe and vdroop was still .02v. I couldn't even go down farther no matter how hard i pressed with the pencil. It doesnt really matter though cause this was my friends computer and its now in a safer environment :p:.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexx
Have a thorough look at this document, provided by Intel, and especially the loadline figures and numbers, starting on page 13 for the different processor types:
http://download.intel.com/design/pro...s/31321402.pdf
It shows that vdroop is simply put a function of Icc (the current, that the CPU draws). The higher the current draw the higher the voltage drop (relative to the CPU's standard voltage; have a look at the graphs). AFAIK Intel wants all mainboard manufacturers, using their chipsets, to keep to these loadline specs. They need to stay within the specified loadline window over the whole scale from 0 to the max specified current draw in Amps. If they don't, I guess their circuit is either not certified to be VRD compliant, or perhaps they won't even get the chipsets, if they use Intel chipsets at all. I honestly don't know for sure. Could ask next week, but don't know if I'll get an answer at work. Perhaps I'll have to ask someone from the development section.
Now that explains why all Intel motherboards have the droop function implemented from the start. It has its purpose for sure. The droop resistance is chosen in order to keep the circuit compliant with the loadline sheme over the whole scale (for all compatible CPUs!).
It controls the max possible current draw at a certain operating point.
The higher the droop resistance, the lower the possible current, the higher vdroop. And respectively: The lower the resistance, the higher the possible current draw and the lower vdroop. It's that easy. BUT, what you have got to keep in mind:
1.) If you change your CPU Vcore, the CPUs current draw will increase, which will influence vdroop. You can't adjust it once and think that it'll keep vdroop at close to zero in all load situations. You have to adjust it for each operating point of the circuit.
2.) The boards are designed with vdroop functioning as shown in the Intel specsheet. If you now alter the resistance and allow more current to flow at a certain operating point, you normally would have to increase the decoupling capacitance to help keep the vcore stable at that point. It's because Vdroop is also there to help the motherboard manufacturers save some money. It takes off some strain off the voltage regulating circuit, thus helping them to cut costs, for example for expensive caps.
And concerning Kobalt's problem:
His vdroop doesn't decrease, even when lowering the droop resistance to a value far lower than anyone else with this board. It looks like he has some current limiting factor elsewhere in his system/circuit. The droop function would allow for enough current to flow to decrease vdroop, but the cuircuit just doesn't seem to get enough current or can't deliever it due to a problem I don't know. IMHO, this seems to be the explanation why his vdroop doesn't get any lower than 0.02V. Unfortunately, neither do I have access to his very motherboard, nor am I in posession of at least the same model. So, IMHO his whole system would need to be thoroughly analyzed to find the "fault", causing this behaviour of the circuit.
Edit: BTW, because you mentioned dropping the droop resistance to ZERO Ohms. BAD IDEA! No current limit --> short circuit --> very likely dead motherboard or at least dead vcore regulation, if not even dead CPU, too. ;)
kobalt,
given you have tried a vast array of resistance i will go out on a limb here and say your not doing the mod right.
wrong location
bad POT
smoking to much POT, lol j/k