ESReality Mouse "Roundup"

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Laser vs Optical

In almost every mouse review I've read, the writer makes the automatic assumption that laser mice must be better than optical. I imagine it's down to the perceived firepower of each word. No one ever destroyed an Imperial Cruiser with an LED gun. The performance benchmarks show that todays batch of laser mice can't keep up with the finely tuned optical ones. They do have slightly higher resolution, but not enough to make up for their poor performance at speed.


Overclocking the Mouse USB port

Some Logitech and Microsoft mice have a huge performance boost when you overclock the mouse port, because of an interface limit. Specifically they are: Logitech's MX300 & MX500 and Microsoft's WMO, IE3.0 & Laser 6000. My recommendation is to set the USB rate to 500Hz for these mice, but using a USB tool that only affects the port that has the mouse plugged in. The response on other mice did not change when overclocking the USB port (or they had a higher clock rate by default).


Next Steps

For future articles I hope to include a wider range of mice (assuming the manufacturers get around to sending samples), and benchmark new products as they are released. The Razer DeathAdder is coming very soon so there will be a new article for that as soon as I get hold of a sample. I'm currently building a database to make it easy to find detailed information about any mouse you might be interested in.

I will be posting a followup article where I test the most popular mice on various mousepads to determine which surfaces produce the best response. Steelpad and Qpad have both sent samples for this article but I still need a wider range to test. If you make mousepads for gaming please get in touch with me, so I do not miss out your products!

I hope to build more benchmarking setups to test different aspects of the mouse apart from the speed-response characteristics. This would include the mouse buttons, sensor latency, and output smoothness. Scoring these different attributes is slightly more complicated but I have a good idea of how to go about creating the tests.


Final Thoughts

This article has taken me many weeks to devise, build and compile. It is the culmination of a huge number of discussions in the ESReality forums, and the heated debate that goes on about mouse performance on this site. I hope the results are useful, and indeed I would be glad to see information from this article make it's way on to future mouse reviews (although links back to here would be even better!) I hope that producing real benchmarks for gaming mice go some way to ensuring competition between manufacturers and better hardware in the end for us to play on.

If you have a mouse or mousepad that you want involved in these MouseScore benchmarks, contact me to arrange delivery.

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# Page 1: Benchmarking Mice
# Page 2: How Much Is Enough?
# Page 3: Benchmarking Equipment
# Page 4: MS Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1a
# Page 5: MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
# Page 6: MS Intellimouse Explorer 4.0
# Page 7: MS Laser Mouse 6000
# Page 8: MS Habu Gaming Mouse
# Page 9: Razer Krait
# Page 10: Razer Diamondback
# Page 11: Razer Copperhead
# Page 12: Logitech MX300
# Page 13: Logitech MX500
# Page 14: Logitech MX518
# Page 15: Logitech G1
# Page 16: Logitech G3
# Page 17: Logitech G5
# Page 18: Creative Fatal1ty 1010
# Page 19: Creative Fatal1ty 2020
# Page 20: A4tech X7
# Page 21: Comparisons
# Page 22: MouseScore2007 Results

The Link...

Yea that is an awesome article. Very well done. I was very happy to see them point out the issue regarding laser vs. optical.

Wow very nice review. Been looking for a new mouse now that I realized laser is crap. Might grab an MX500...

Yeah, it was well written and I can see that a lot of efforts were put into.

But .. OCing your mouse? Well, I guess Xtreme OC has no boundaries,eh. :cool:

Very nice read!

Oh, I just wished they would have also included Razer's Deathadder, but I guess it was released too late....I really would like to see a decent review of it.

too bad they excluded the MX1000...

Nice article!!

How does the MX510 differ from the MX500?

I've killed two mx510 mice (not physically damaged) and I was overclocking USB port. 1st died after 6 months, the 2nd one after 3 months. I don't know it might be coincidence, maybe not. I haven't tried it with my new G5, still works fine after a year but I will try :)

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Originally Posted by WesM63

Nice article!!

How does the MX510 differ from the MX500?

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800dpi vs 400dpi is all afaik

Overclocking the mouse also introduced it to input lag for my mx500, if that makes any sense.. :stick: :(

NO - I'm not the reviewer, but I saw a nice article that makes some good points and I fought it would be nice to share it whit others. ;)

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Originally Posted by WesM63

How does the MX510 differ from the MX500?

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MX510 vs. MX518


Image processing/capture rate

MX500 = 4.7 mega pixels per second
MX510 = 5.8 mega pixels per second

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Tracking acceleration:

MX500 = 10g
MX510 = 15g

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Design:


Logitech® MX™500
http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/12344.jpg

Logitech™ MX510
http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/12345.jpg

In rest they are the same, don't know for sure if MX510 has 800 DPI or 400 DPI like MX500, until now even this was suppose to have 800 DPI. :)

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Originally Posted by Budwise

too bad they excluded the MX1000...

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The reviewer is an ex pro q3 player. Real gamers know wireless sucks.

you are entitled to your opinion. I am active in TWL, World Tournament, and other ladders in gaming and i use an MX1000 and wouldnt trade it for anything. I guess since i dont think wireless sucks i must not be a real gamer :) A friend of mine just moved from a MX1000 to a G7 and now wishes he had his MX1000 back... To say that only wired mice belong in gaming is quite a statement.

I also wish they would have included the MX1000. Excellent read though...and very interesting that they rank the old MX500 #1. That was my OLD mouse. I'd like to move on, but...they really think its the best?

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Originally Posted by afireinside

The reviewer is an ex pro q3 player. Real gamers know wireless sucks.

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True! - as you can see there is no wireless mouse in that review, for them was like Cheating, and true gamers don't use Cheats ;)

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you are entitled to your opinion. I am active in TWL, World Tournament, and other ladders in gaming and i use an MX1000 and wouldnt trade it for anything.

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I had my best aiming experience whit ball mice (cheap ones), used to be better then others whit Professional Optical/Laser mice - then I moved to optical and s****d for some time, after that I moved to laser (MX1000), it was a disaster, from elite -> to n00b aiming, moved back to Optical and got used to it, in the past I used to be a God all the time, now I feel like Hercules - Semi God whit God strength from time to time :(.

eh. i'm still using a ball mouse...

:)

thinking about giving the mx518 a try though..

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I am active in TWL, World Tournament

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No idea what world tournament is and TWL is like the hardocp of gaming leagues. By real gamers I'm talking about people in top divisions of CAL and CEVO that attend lans and compete for money.

I've always used wireless mice and Games, and I have to agree the MX1000 is a great wireless mouse for gaming. Zero lag. The MX Revolution on the other hand? For-get-it.

Well, my MX1000 was zero-lag until I switched to LCD. Now I need something faster :(

Laser mice "skips" for player whit low sensitivity.

*Throws G5 in trash and runs to fry's to buy a 518*

Screw 518, get 500. :)

Screw them all, Original IME 3.0...

MX500 is 800dpi which is just fine, I run mine at 500Hz (2ms) and after 3 years or so it's still doing just as good.

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Originally Posted by biohead

MX500 is 800dpi which is just fine, I run mine at 500Hz (2ms) and after 3 years or so it's still doing just as good.

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Actually after being tested it was found to have only 400DPI (in link from first post) - 800DPI was false marketing, something very common this days (same as whit LCD's ) :fact:

I've had the MX510 for years. I've never heard of overclocking a mouse, you learn something new on here everyday I suppose.

Anyone know what utility you use to overclock the USB mouse port only?

I got the XTRAC pad about a year ago. I didn't know what I was missing.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817114183

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Originally Posted by afireinside

The reviewer is an ex pro q3 player. Real gamers know wireless sucks.

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not since the mx1000.

just like when "real gamers knows vsync sucks... lcds suck.... 32-bit color suchs.... etc" heh this is a running joke i have with a buncha CS buddies. i got flamed when i got hte mx1000 when it first came out but you gotta knwo that by now ,the entire logitech G series is performing connection wise just as good as wired.

just like lcds are good for gaming now. sticking to the "real gamers know..." is dissolving.

mx518/ IM3.0/ IMoptical1.1 for the win.

Best 3 mice ever, and the only 3 mice i have ever owned. im sad they didnt review optical 1.1

Too bad my IM3.0 died.

I'm suddenly quite happy about owning an A4-tech mouse (the X7's brother, the X710-f... Still has the 3xclick button, but it's all black and has a DPI-switch)... Impressive to see them doing so good... And I feel bad about recommending a Copperhead to a friend :p: (he went with the MX518 though :))

Best Regards :toast:

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Originally Posted by frankR

Anyone know what utility you use to overclock the USB mouse port only?

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You can find this on first page of this review, or you could use this guide.

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just like when "real gamers knows vsync sucks... lcds suck.... 32-bit color suchs.... etc"

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Vsync is GOOD for gaming? Since when? With the exception of the terrible doom 3 engine, anyone good will play with either 100 fps (HL and source engines) or 125/333 (quake 3 engine). GL getting an LCD with a 125 or 333hz refresh rate. And 32 bit color bad? Never head that one.

LCDs did suck for a very long time. There are some 19" models now that great for gaming though. Unfortunately they still can't touch CRTs in contrast ratio and resolution flexibility :(

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Originally Posted by afireinside

LCDs did suck for a very long time. There are some 19" models now that great for gaming though. Unfortunately they still can't touch CRTs in contrast ratio and resolution flexibility :(

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Wait for SED, seen it at CeBit didn't realize it was SED at that moment! :woot:

I got the mx518 last night, and switched back and forth between the G5 and the mx518. And I have a mixed opinion about the two. I think performance wise, the mx518 is actually superior, like the review found to be. It seems to be more reflexive to my movements, and just pretty sweet. I always thought the G5 was like the king of the hill, but not necessarily.

But, the G5 aesthetically is the better mouse. The dpi buttons have a nicer layout, and the led display in the mouse telling which setting you are on is very nice. The G5 has a longer cord, which is indeed very nice, cause I feel pull on the mx518 everytime i use it. The G5 and mx518 have a different grip to them, both nice, but just a matter of preference. I actually prefer the G5. And I think a great feature is the weights in the G5. I like a heavier mouse, but again, this is preference. I really wish that there was an optical mouse with the best of both of these mice. It would be a sick a$$ mouse.

i prefer diamondbacks to the mx 500.
hell, i prefer all razer mice to their logitech counterparts lol.

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Originally Posted by afireinside

Vsync is GOOD for gaming? Since when? With the exception of the terrible doom 3 engine, anyone good will play with either 100 fps (HL and source engines) or 125/333 (quake 3 engine). GL getting an LCD with a 125 or 333hz refresh rate. And 32 bit color bad? Never head that one.

LCDs did suck for a very long time. There are some 19" models now that great for gaming though. Unfortunately they still can't touch CRTs in contrast ratio and resolution flexibility :(

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right thats what im saying: gamers are always gonna argue about stuff like that. once there is a common convention set, that everyone agrees upon and discusses, then anything new is not "REAL" or stupid or wack or will result in performance drop. until enough folks rock it.

im saying, if you could get OVER 100fps consistently, with a CRT and 100mhz refresh at your desired res, then vsync is better. no tearing and a much smoother gameplay experience. REGARDLESS OF GAME. however, vsync off aint bad if you used to it (which all real gamers are right?) therefore on a good response time LCD with good contrast etc etc, NOT having 100mhz refresh rate dont mean a damn thing. you gonna have tearing and you gonna have super fast pixel response, so by that reasoning i dont see why LCD gaming would be bad. plus, once gamers try it, in the proper scenario, they mostly agree.

the 32-bit reference was for back inteh day when we all used 16-bit color for extra speed in CS (i think 1.4-1.5 days?) and also cuz of how it allowed you to see better thru smoke.

but in this day and age, with the gfx cards we have, with source engine being what it is especially, aint no reason not to run with an LCD, AA + AF levels up and on and easily be able to do jsut as well. not a knock on awesome CRTS, but hte LCDs are not unusable anymore.

same with wireless logitech mice. good for gaming.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

you are entitled to your opinion. I am active in TWL, World Tournament, and other ladders in gaming and i use an MX1000 and wouldnt trade it for anything. I guess since i dont think wireless sucks i must not be a real gamer :) A friend of mine just moved from a MX1000 to a G7 and now wishes he had his MX1000 back... To say that only wired mice belong in gaming is quite a statement.

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Would u care to elaborate this? I'm going for either G7 (preferable) or MX1000 and would like user info.

I'm glad that for gift for my brother birthday I picked up A4Tech X-716F. Great value for money, up to 1600dpi, etc. He is very happy with this mouse and because he is Pro in CS this makes his word valuable. Before he was using Razor Diamond Black mouse.

PS. If guy called 'XaI' is head shooting everyone on level then believe me, he is not using any *cheats*. Loads of people simply is kicking him from servers for being accurate :p:

PS2. Laser mouses are good if you need very high DPI - example: DTP@UWXGA res on tiny mouse pad :D

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therefore on a good response time LCD with good contrast etc etc, NOT having 100mhz refresh rate dont mean a damn thing. you gonna have tearing and you gonna have super fast pixel response, so by that reasoning i dont see why LCD gaming would be bad.

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What?

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same with wireless logitech mice. good for gaming.

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For a casual gamer sure but for a pro quake 3 player like the person who wrote the article? no.

I like high dpi cause i'm lazy and hate making huge movements with my hand. (that and i'm on a computer 24/7 so it gets annoying)

The feel of a mouse is the deciding factor for me. Even if a Razer Copperhead is superior to my MX510 or my Habu. I'll take the MX510/Habu over the copperhead any day due to the comfort. I had a Diamondback for 2days, couldn't stand it.

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Originally Posted by WesM63

I had a Diamondback for 2days, couldn't stand it.

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I had it for 2 years, almost - that's the mouse that made me mortal, after all those positive reviews about RD, I fought it would play by itself (have a life of is own) , pumping me from God Mode to Super Nova - it turned up to be poison for my skills. Logitech MX1000 was the final blow - I'm still recovering from that hit, it's hard to be at TOP for a long time and hit the bottom in few days. :CTF:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

For a casual gamer sure but for a pro quake 3 player like the person who wrote the article? no.

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Psssh....on XS, you don't get much mouse actions during benchmarking. Especially since most of the time we spend is inside the BIOS or watching memtest run. :P (Then the rest of the time is about posting and reading on XS) :D

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

Would u care to elaborate this? I'm going for either G7 (preferable) or MX1000 and would like user info.

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I sent you a PM so we dont get too OT here.

at 1920x1200 i need high dpi i dont play at ultra low sens....

i love my Razor Diamonback, it did the best out of the non-logitech lasers!

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Originally Posted by XSAlliN

I had it for 2 years, almost - that's the mouse that made me mortal, after all those positive reviews about RD, I fought it would play by itself (have a life of is own) , pumping me from God Mode to Super Nova - it turned up to be poison for my skills. Logitech MX1000 was the final blow - I'm still recovering from that hit, it's hard to be at TOP for a long time and hit the bottom in few days. :CTF:

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Same here, it's not the same as a ball/optical mouse. Takes some getting used to, though I think it's better in the log run.

Haven't tried playing with the acceleration settings though, maybe that's what's making it different? Either way, I'm pretty happy with it now. I was really bad the first couple months, so I had to switch to RTS.

I went from an MX500 to an MX1000, I never really felt that it took much time to get used to it and get accurate with aiming.

i wrote him for several other reason but asked if he could review the mx1000 g7 and revo

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

i wrote him for several other reason but asked if he could review the mx1000 g7 and revo

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That would be some very additions... :)

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

i wrote him for several other reason but asked if he could review the mx1000 g7 and revo

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What about the Razer DeathAdder? That one looks promising.

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Originally Posted by gr8golf

What about the Razer DeathAdder? That one looks promising.

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He mentioned in the roundup that he wanted to include it but it was not available, and wanted to include more mice into the review in the short future.

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My recommendation is to set the USB rate to 500Hz for these mice, but using a USB tool that only affects the port that has the mouse plugged in.

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anyone knows where to get such a tool ?

At present you cant compare a Wireless mouse whit others, same as you cant compare a professional gaming mouse whit wireless, each have their own purpose (at least that's how I see it from my experience):

Wireless Mouse

Pros

-best for laptop especially when you travel a lot
-stands better at ergonomics since it has no wires
-good for a casual gamer (some people get used to that lag)
-good for office
-could be used as a remote

Cons

-It has some lag in games
-Some need batteries

--------------------------------------------------

Wire Mouse

Pros

-best for gaming (not all of them)
-high speed
-0 lag
-best control (accuracy)

Cons

-you have to get used to that wire
-not very practical

Since you really want to see a review whit MX1000, here:

Gaming Mouse Group Test (second one - not related to first).

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So what mice will we be looking at? We’ll be considering the explosion of colour that is the Saitek GM3200; the old stalwart of the wireless gamer the MX 1000; the Razer Krait designed for RTS’ers; the small but powerful Logitech G3 and finally Creative Fatal1ty's 1010 pro-gamer mouse. It’s a broad range of mice that all aim to fill slightly different niches.

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It's not like the first - it wasn't made by a professional gamer, more like a casual if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by SaFrOuT

anyone knows where to get such a tool ?

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Originally Posted by XSAlliN

You can find this on first page of this review, or you could use this guide.

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Originally Posted by SaFrOuT

anyone knows where to get such a tool ?

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mouserate.exe and a couple other utils can be had here:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...our-mouse.html

edit:
more related material here:
http://www.warleagues.com/viewnews.asp?view=45

thanks

i changed my rate to 500, hope i will notice anything while playing BF2 :)

EDIT:

i am using a logitech mx510

hehe.. I am going to go home and put my mx510 back on and try it @ 250/500.. maybe I'll retire the G7.. :)

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Originally Posted by alucasa

But .. OCing your mouse? Well, I guess Xtreme OC has no boundaries,eh. :cool:

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It's not OC'ing the mouse, it's increasing the USB port's polling rate so it can keep up with the mouse. Most new mice advertise 1000Hz/1ms, but by default XP limits the USB ports to 125Hz/8ms so people download tools to increase this to 500 or 1000.

On some systems Windows lags sometimes, because of this OC - same happened whit mine, but I had a backup and things got back to normal :)

PS.I didn't used no tool for OC-ing, I used an HEX editor by knowing the values for each rate.

If you have a Razer Mouse you can change the Rate from "Advanced Driver Control"

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/razer_...s/driver01.jpg

THIS REVIEW WAS AWESOME!!! too bad I already bought my mouse 5 days before I got a chance to read this.


I bought the wrong mouse, lol...well it's still decent, but I have the G5. I'm starting to wish that I bought the Razer Diamondback, and after reading the review, I'm glad I did not get the Razer Copperhead(was very close).

I think I might actually go out and buy a Diamondback now, MX5xx looks intriguing too, but I admit, as "ergonomic" as the molding is, I find it bulky for my tastes, I like the Razer's body design better, and I like how it's easy to move around with your finger thumb and pinky across the pad, instead of gripping the whole thing.

I'm just getting back into gaming...FPS...oh man..my Q2 days are coming back.

Just sold my Razer D. two weeks ago - I can't stand those side buttons, had it for some time (about 2 years) but couldn't get used to that flaw in design :( - I have a cheap Logitech as a replacement but this doesn't do, I might buy Razer Krait (No side buttons) since I'm used to it, or maybe a Logitech MX510, but Razer has the best drivers and that's a big plus ;)

Maybe you can try a new DeathAdder? I'm not sure how they are, but on paper they look fine....

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Originally Posted by Helmore

Maybe you can try a new DeathAdder? I'm not sure how they are, but on paper they look fine....

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Until I know for sure that it doesn't skips - I'll let others try it.:D

Glad I picked up the A4tech X718. I bought it after using a laser mouse for a couple weeks and hating it. X718 is much more responsive, and a bargain compared to other "gamer" mice. And my favorite part about it is the drivers use less than three megs ram, according to taskmanager...


Ply

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Originally Posted by XSAlliN

Just sold my Razer D. two weeks ago - I can't stand those side buttons, had it for some time (about 2 years) but couldn't get used to that flaw in design :( - I have a cheap Logitech as a replacement but this doesn't do, I might buy Razer Krait (No side buttons) since I'm used to it, or maybe a Logitech MX510, but Razer has the best drivers and that's a big plus ;)

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The side buttons are a little weird, and take a while to get used to as well. The ones on the left side are entirely useless because you can't operate them with your pinkie (unless you have some sort of a magical 4 inch long pinkie finger).

The ones one the CopperHead are much better designed buttons, and overall it's an improved version of DiamondBack, but I don't like the fact that programmed Numpad keys won't work if I turn the physical Numpad off (and I have to do it on my laptop keyboard).

Coincidentially, does anyway know a fix for that? Also, how can I flash it to new firmware? I downloaded the new drivers which say they have the new firmware, but I can't figure out how to do it :(.

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Originally Posted by NickS

I've always used wireless mice and Games, and I have to agree the MX1000 is a great wireless mouse for gaming. Zero lag. The MX Revolution on the other hand? For-get-it.

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Try and play 1.6 without a Wireless then you will notice the difference.

Mouse I own/owned are as follows -

Logitech MX1000 - Great mouse, sensitivity isnt bad and a great feel.
Logitech G5 - Fantastic sensitivity but feels like a tank - terrible shape imho.
Logitech G7 Special Edition - Same as the G5 but Wireless.
Logitech MX Revolution - I use this as my browsing and every day usage Mouse, THE best bar none for its purpose.

RAZER Diamondback Magma - What can I say, a fantastic mouse, great feel/hold, sensitivity does not feel any different to that of the G5/7 and it looks fantastic - I use this mouse when I game.
Side buttons are inactive so I haev no comment for that area.

Well, thats my short sentence view. :D

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Originally Posted by iddqd

Coincidentially, does anyway know a fix for that? Also, how can I flash it to new firmware? I downloaded the new drivers which say they have the new firmware, but I can't figure out how to do it :(.

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Try this Guide: http://www.razerzone.com/copperhead/help/firmware.htm ;)

Sup guys... I recently read the ESR review, and now becoming very interested in the concepts of gaming mice.

I currently use the G7 to play Counter-Strike: Condition-Zero. Before that I used the MX518, and before that the MX510.

So I'm getting the feeling that the MX500 overclocked is still the best choice... First question: should I really do away with my G7 and fall back to the 510 or the 518?

Second question: is the MX510 better than the MX500 b/c I didn't see the 510 in the ESR article (I think it's 800dpi vs 400dpi, but again the 510 wasn't in the review, so I still don't know). I know it's not all about dpi, but I really want an answer b/c if both mice are the same shape and the 500 is better, then I'll just go buy that and give my 510 to my cousin.

Thx. :)

Its not worth.."back in time" to pick up a mouse that is a little better at all, continue with your G7 and wait some nice wireless ...i know its coming :D

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Originally Posted by g0dM@n

Sup guys... I recently read the ESR review, and now becoming very interested in the concepts of gaming mice.

I currently use the G7 to play Counter-Strike: Condition-Zero. Before that I used the MX518, and before that the MX510.

So I'm getting the feeling that the MX500 overclocked is still the best choice... First question: should I really do away with my G7 and fall back to the 510 or the 518?

Second question: is the MX510 better than the MX500 b/c I didn't see the 510 in the ESR article (I think it's 800dpi vs 400dpi, but again the 510 wasn't in the review, so I still don't know). I know it's not all about dpi, but I really want an answer b/c if both mice are the same shape and the 500 is better, then I'll just go buy that and give my 510 to my cousin.

Thx. :)

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Here is the question though. Which one did you like the best?

I used to use the MX500. It was ok, but I like the feel of my MX1000 a lot better. If I were to go to a new mouse it would either be the MX518 or the new Deathadder, if it gets favorable reviews. IMO Logitech needs to use the MX1000 shape and make a gaming mouse out of it. MX2000?

I've said it many times. MX518!

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Originally Posted by g0dM@n

Sup guys... I recently read the ESR review, and now becoming very interested in the concepts of gaming mice.

I currently use the G7 to play Counter-Strike: Condition-Zero. Before that I used the MX518, and before that the MX510.

So I'm getting the feeling that the MX500 overclocked is still the best choice... First question: should I really do away with my G7 and fall back to the 510 or the 518?

Second question: is the MX510 better than the MX500 b/c I didn't see the 510 in the ESR article (I think it's 800dpi vs 400dpi, but again the 510 wasn't in the review, so I still don't know). I know it's not all about dpi, but I really want an answer b/c if both mice are the same shape and the 500 is better, then I'll just go buy that and give my 510 to my cousin.

Thx. :)

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U owned all these mice and u still seeking an advice on what's the best...? :stick:

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

U owned all these mice and u still seeking an advice on what's the best...? :stick:

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well... i didn't notice ANY diff between the 518 and the 510... but i only really played CS: CZ.

and now the G7... didn't notice any difference... but lately i've been SUCKING... my ratio would normally be 2.5-4.0x kills:deaths... and now it's more like 1.5-2.0x. :(

maybe the noobs are getting better, but i'm beginning to think it COULD be the G7... altho i LOVE the mouse. now, i sold my 518 like the day before i read this ESR review, so all i got left @ home now is the mx610, mx510, and the G7... i know the 610 isn't a gamer, so i must now choose between the G7 and the 510... according to the review, the 510 was the best when overclocked... maybe i'll OC it, but i've never OCed a USB port b4 (i'm sure it's nothing compared to what i've already done these days).

i was just trying to understand the differences between the G5, G7, 500, 510, and 518... cuz it's almost always apples to oranges, and i cannot distinguish.