Danger Den 8800GTX Waterblock Uncovered

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12-11-2006, 05:12 PM
SilveradoJ442

Danger Den 8800GTX Waterblock Uncovered

Just got this today and curiosity got the best of me so I popped the top. Here is how she looks under the dress :)

http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1968.jpg
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1964.JPG
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1963.JPG
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1962.JPG
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1967.jpg
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1965.jpg
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuf...0/IMGP1966.jpg

I'm actually Glad I removed it, there was some loose metal around the core area that would have made its way into my loop at some point :mad: No more warranty but hey like everyone says this is extremesystems :)
12-11-2006, 06:05 PM
rjw

where did you get it from?

I am waiting on a couple

let us know how it works out

thx
12-11-2006, 06:11 PM
Philly_Boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjw

where did you get it from?

I am waiting on a couple

let us know how it works out

thx

Yeah, mine are in the mail too..
12-11-2006, 06:12 PM
SilveradoJ442

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjw

where did you get it from?

I am waiting on a couple

let us know how it works out

thx

I got it from performance-pcs. They had a few in stock last week. It was $14 more than the Danger Den store :mad: But they knew they had a hot item. Tonight or tomorrow I will switch out my mcw60 and see if there is any gain or loss on my max clocks. :toast:
12-11-2006, 11:17 PM
zbogorgon

am i the only one that think this sux ?
what's with that almost no copper idea ?
12-11-2006, 11:22 PM
Eddy_EK

Like OMG :slap:
12-11-2006, 11:34 PM
epion2985

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

am i the only one that think this sux ?

It does suck. In fact the whole idea of a block that covers the ram sucks pretty hard as it does nothing but hurt the performance of a system by cooling what doesn't need to be cooled with water, causing high restriction and taking cooling away from what does need to be cooled with water.
12-11-2006, 11:37 PM
zbogorgon

Quote:

Originally Posted by epion2985

It does suck. In fact the whole idea of a block that covers the ram sucks pretty hard as it does nothing but hurt the performance of a system by cooling what doesn't need to be cooled with water, causing high restriction and taking cooling away from what does need to be cooled with water.

it is not what i thought, but you already know that, I think this is not right topic for FC yes or no discusion.
12-12-2006, 12:23 AM
epion2985

Actually I didn't read carefully lol, my bad :)
12-12-2006, 12:47 AM
qdemn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

am i the only one that think this sux ?
what's with that almost no copper idea ?

What really sucks is the piss-poor quality of the block and the top. I mean WTF are all those milling marks? You won't see that kind of crap on EK's stuff. That is some shoddy workmanship. :mad:
12-12-2006, 12:48 AM
[XC]Atomicpineapple

Meh. Theres a distinct lack of material around the core area, and a large gap where water can flow over the miniscule fins rather than through them. I think thats the worst effort I've ever seen from DD.
12-12-2006, 01:05 AM
epion2985

Quote:

Originally Posted by qdemn7

What really sucks is the piss-poor quality of the block and the top. I mean WTF are all those milling marks? You won't see that kind of crap on EK's stuff. That is some shoddy workmanship. :mad:

DD quality is slipping =/
12-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Der_KHAN

is that black cover also made from copper?
12-12-2006, 01:08 AM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der_KHAN

is that black cover also made from copper?

No, it's black Delrin (POM)...
12-12-2006, 01:09 AM
epion2985

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der_KHAN

is that black cover also made from copper?

No, looks like derlin. If it was copper the block would be so heavy it would break the card out of the slot lol. I am surprised this overgrown hunk of copper doesn't already :rolleyes:
12-12-2006, 02:11 AM
Pete

I was going to say how shallow the copper is for the water flow but then saw the front. I'm shocked and appalled at this block form DD, they are going down hill rapidly. Maybe it's just a one off as BFG worked with them on this...
12-12-2006, 02:35 AM
Der_KHAN

well i like it. it looks pretty unrestrictive. too bad it isn't available in europe.
12-12-2006, 02:49 AM
qdemn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by epion2985

DD quality is slipping =/

That is a great big "No S***". I wouldn't have a DD product now if someone gave it to me. I'd rather buy from EK and have some quality. I don't know if there's a DD rep, official or not here, but I certainly would like to here what someone from DD has to say.
12-12-2006, 03:16 AM
Mankz_91

you can get the DD blocks from www.coolercases.co.uk Der KAHN...
12-12-2006, 03:27 AM
andersson.j

The outside looks sweet but the internals doesn't. I bet that EKs block outperformes DDs quite a lot!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilveradoJ442

No more warranty but hey like everyone says this is extremesystems :)

Actually you still have warranty? The sticker just guarantees that the block is leak tested?
12-12-2006, 04:24 AM
Pete

EK has thought, desgin and effort put into it...DD no longer has anyhting bar $$$$ in front of the idea
12-12-2006, 04:26 AM
_G_

looks like they where going for maximum flow and minimum material cost.
not sure how those shallow channels will work over one of the hottest
gpu cores out there. looks like the cutter they used for the channels was dull,
If they made the watter passage a few thousands deeper than the channels
it wouldn't show :rolleyes: (guess thats why there is no acrylic top for it lol)
I think Eddy is still :rofl:
12-12-2006, 04:29 AM
[XC]Atomicpineapple

To the OP, if you can send it back do so immediately! EKs block comes out at $100 as a direct price conversion and the DD block is listed at $135 on their website. The EK will probably end up the same price, or a little bit more expensive, but at least it'll be worth the money.
12-12-2006, 06:54 AM
rjw

People

I think that we should wait to see some results before bashing it.

I have a set on my 7950 gx2 that did a very good job.

I have been running mcw60's with ramsinks on the mem and I can say that in my case, I wish I had copper on all the chips.

the ek unit has aluminum over the mosfets, which can get really hot as well when seriously oc'd

On the other hand, I have found that without etreme cooling, these cards produce better bench scores at lower numbers (clock / mem)

But that is just my experience.

As an ex tool and die maker, I can also say that the marks in the delrin are normal and very hard to avoid.

The copper part doesn't look great , but there may be some turbulence created around the shallow fins, or maybe a kittle vibration set in due to the thinness of the material.

I wiould wait for the results.

If others find that it is extremely hard to get good results over 700 gpu/1100 mem, then this whole watercooling thing on these cards may not be seen as such a cost effective solution, performance wise and may end up being only for longevity.
12-12-2006, 07:31 AM
pumbertot

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjw

If others find that it is extremely hard to get good results over 700 gpu/1100 mem, then this whole watercooling thing on these cards may not be seen as such a cost effective solution, performance wise and may end up being only for longevity.

no noisey stock hsf and the heat that the card puts into the case are also valid reasons if its hard to get over those clocks. rebuilding my loops tomorrow(adding the mcw60) so will see how I get on. ;)
12-12-2006, 08:03 AM
Zeus

Geez, those channels are shallow and nowhere near smooth.

Eddy's blocks look way better.
12-12-2006, 08:05 AM
Eddy_EK

beat that...
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/images/FC8800c.jpg
12-12-2006, 08:15 AM
Polizei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomicpineapple

Meh. Theres a distinct lack of material around the core area, and a large gap where water can flow over the miniscule fins rather than through them. I think thats the worst effort I've ever seen from DD.

Was just going to say the same thing... the fins seem tiny. Hell, compared to Eddy's, DD's fins might as well not even be there.
12-12-2006, 08:26 AM
Big SturL

LoL, that looks piss poor. At first glance, it looked as if the fins were brazed to the block... But, guess that wouldn't matter as the rest of the block appears to suck. Saw someone mention low restriction, high flow. Less restriction also means less heat-transfer.

I'm acutally off the water-cooling cart, but if I ever get back on, EK will be my distributor of goods.
12-12-2006, 08:34 AM
Poonani

I guess im gonna have to go with a swiftech water block. I would love to get my hands on some EK water blocks though....
12-12-2006, 08:37 AM
[XC]Atomicpineapple

Where are you located? Petras might carry some, and if not Eddy will ship anywhere in the world.
12-12-2006, 08:43 AM
Poonani

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomicpineapple

Where are you located? Petras might carry some, and if not Eddy will ship anywhere in the world.

in the U.S. any domestic sites carry these blocks?? Im sure the overseas shipping charge will :slapass: those EK block are a dam fine pieces of work. excellent craftsmanship at its finest, and eye candy too :clap: :clap:
12-12-2006, 09:35 AM
SilveradoJ442

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poonani

in the U.S. any domestic sites carry these blocks?? Im sure the overseas shipping charge will :slapass: those EK block are a dam fine pieces of work. excellent craftsmanship at its finest, and eye candy too :clap: :clap:

When I opened up the DD block I must say I wasnt very impressed either. Now I have to buy Eddy's block too which I should have done in the first place :slap:

It can be had from Eddy's site for $108.73 shipped :) at least to CA, USA

I installed the DD block last night and temps are Okay. It appears to be about 2-4c hotter under load than my MCW60. I was kinda expecting this after seeing the inside. I am still trying to see if my overclocks are better or worse with this block. I was able to reach 22k in 05 which is a new personal record for me. Card is not volt modded. I still need to do further tests though before I know for sure.
12-12-2006, 09:40 AM
nikhsub1

I'll not talk of performance, but that DD block looks like crud. No wonder they are using delrin tops, to hide the crappy machining on the copper. Attention to detail is apparently out the window.
12-12-2006, 09:52 AM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

I'll not talk of performance, but that DD block looks like crud. No wonder they are using delrin tops, to hide the crappy machining on the copper. Attention to detail is apparently out the window.

:toast: You hit the nail on the head. The kind of quality that block uses is just shameful...... SHAMEFUL! Looks like DD has been hanging out with Thermaltake too much.
12-12-2006, 10:01 AM
Poonani

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilveradoJ442

When I opened up the DD block I must say I wasnt very impressed either. Now I have to buy Eddy's block too which I should have done in the first place :slap:

It can be had from Eddy's site for $108.73 shipped :) at least to CA, USA

I installed the DD block last night and temps are Okay. It appears to be about 2-4c hotter under load than my MCW60. I was kinda expecting this after seeing the inside. I am still trying to see if my overclocks are better or worse with this block. I was able to reach 22k in 05 which is a new personal record for me. Card is not volt modded. I still need to do further tests though before I know for sure.

interesting!! I guess I'll be ordering mine soon:cool:
12-12-2006, 10:45 AM
Sparky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

beat that...
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/images/FC8800c.jpg

beautiful :slobber:

Much better than that DD crap they call a block :slapass:
12-12-2006, 10:50 AM
IanY

Is it or is it not better than focused gpu cooling? You guys seem so hung up on appearances, as though a pretty block equals great cooling. I just want to know how well EK does relative to Swiftech.
12-12-2006, 11:32 AM
epion2985

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

Is it or is it not better than focused gpu cooling? You guys seem so hung up on appearances, as though a pretty block equals great cooling. I just want to know how well EK does relative to Swiftech.

From everything I have seen its worse then a gpu focused block, gets you nothing really beside hurting your overall performance as ram heatsinks are usually more the adequate. But people like their bling.
12-12-2006, 11:34 AM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by epion2985

From everything I have seen its worse then a gpu focused block, gets you nothing really beside hurting your overall performance as ram heatsinks are usually more the adequate. But people like their bling.

And THAT was precisely what I was referring to. Bling does nothing for me. If the emperor has no clothes on, he's flipping naked and I would be the first to point out the blatant obvious.
12-12-2006, 11:55 AM
nikhsub1

Copy/Paste to a PM i wrote:

I have never owned (full cover block) one but I can see several reasons to. First, you need not be arsed with ram sinks which CAN interfere with the barbs and tubing of a GPU only block. Next, I like the fact that the barbs are oriented vertically instead of horizontally, this would seem to make tubing runs easier. Lastly, we really don't know how good or bad the pressure drop is on these blocks, hopefully we will find out soon with Petra's tests.
12-12-2006, 12:56 PM
Hemp Knight

Woohoo, just ordered mine, can't wait :slobber: :slobber:

I was half tempted to wait for the DD but after seeing the quality of the DD and then this there simply was no competition.

Nice one Eddy :cool:
12-12-2006, 03:23 PM
JoeBar

DD would be a nice block if it costed half of EK's... :p:
12-13-2006, 06:49 AM
bandit788

Wow, that DD block does look bad...off the topic (sorry), but I don't see a AMD 939 block on the EK site? Do they not make one? I know swiftech is the block to beat, but I do like some bling factor...and if the EK design can spank the DD TDX, well see ya later DD!! I'll just get my 8800GTX from EK, and use their CPU block.
Bandit
12-13-2006, 07:16 AM
Pete

Results from Eddys is far better than the DD/BFG.
12-13-2006, 07:20 AM
situman

Surprised Swifty isn't in the full cover block biz. Though it would be nice if someone comes up witha modular design where you wouldn't have to change waterblocks every 6 to 12 months.
12-13-2006, 07:43 AM
Mr Footlong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Results from Eddys is far better than the DD/BFG.

Linkage?
12-13-2006, 07:44 AM
IanY

I want to see EK convincingly beat out Swiftech. Whoever has the best temps in a controlled environment gets my dollars. I could care less (frankly give a crap) about appearances.
12-13-2006, 07:50 AM
mustang9621

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Results from Eddys is far better than the DD/BFG.

comparisons please
12-13-2006, 08:03 AM
Philly_Boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang9621

comparisons please

I have the DD's and the EK's are "in the mail". I'll let you know in about 2 weeks, after I get the EK's. Check out my G80 block review worklog. Link in my sig.
12-13-2006, 08:16 AM
mustang9621

I've been following your thread closely. I've already installed a DD block on one of my cards and I waiting to see some results on the EK block before I decide what to put on the second card.

I choose a full cover block not for the ram cooling but for the VRM cooling they get very hot and without some form of active cooling I don't feel you can push the card very far. With my current config I've been able to get 750/1140 but I need to do a Vmod for more.
12-13-2006, 08:38 AM
syne_24

Quote:

Originally Posted by situman

Surprised Swifty isn't in the full cover block biz. Though it would be nice if someone comes up witha modular design where you wouldn't have to change waterblocks every 6 to 12 months.

Swiftech doesnt take chances like that, it's not cost effective for them. Besides they are lazy anyways, they will not release a new full cover block every release. As for creating a universal full cover block, I think it's impossible because NV/ATI keeps changing their layout. Unless we see some kind of standard, it aint going to happen.
12-13-2006, 08:45 AM
galimim

Eddy roxs. I have seen better drilling from my friend that is 14 years old..
12-13-2006, 09:32 AM
rjw

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang9621

I've been following your thread closely. I've already installed a DD block on one of my cards and I waiting to see some results on the EK block before I decide what to put on the second card.

I choose a full cover block not for the ram cooling but for the VRM cooling they get very hot and without some form of active cooling I don't feel you can push the card very far. With my current config I've been able to get 750/1140 but I need to do a Vmod for more.

Are you doing any benching?

If so, did going over 700 gpu affect your scores much?

750/1140 on stock voltage is pretty good, IMO

what temps under load? are you using templogger?

thx
12-13-2006, 10:02 AM
mustang9621

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjw

Are you doing any benching?

If so, did going over 700 gpu affect your scores much?

750/1140 on stock voltage is pretty good, IMO

what temps under load? are you using templogger?

thx

There wasn't much gain from 700 to 750, but I'm cpu limited (opty 185) I used the latest riva tuner to monitor the temps and at 750 the temp was 56-58C,

P.S. I'm not switching to C2D until there is a worthy MB
12-13-2006, 10:20 AM
rjw

what is you wc loop like?, rad size, etc.

I am asking, cause I have several of the dd's arriving on friday. Currently, I am using a diy combo of mcw60s and ramsinks.

My temps are considerably lower, but I also have 2 3 fan rads, 2 loops, 2 pumps and a temp controlled room.

I should also add that my cpu isn't in the loop.

Oh and by the way ...Nice to see another team member...

How about a p5b deluxe and E6600 and come help fight the war on hwbot!!!
12-13-2006, 10:33 AM
mustang9621

reservoir, ddc-12v, bixII (2 fan rad), storm rev2, ddc-12v, bixII, DD88gtx back to res. I run the system open air on a test bench, ambient temp around 22c
12-13-2006, 10:43 AM
rjw

I am running 2 dd extreme rads (3 fan) 1 acrylic ressy from frozen cpu, 2 swiftech pumps and mcw 30's on nb and sb.

2 independent loops except for common ressy.

full load at 705/1130 is 39 C...ambient 69F
12-13-2006, 10:48 AM
IanY

Excuse me. Stupid question. When you run a common reservoir, you have Y-adapters before your reservoir inline and after your reservoir outline ?
12-13-2006, 10:57 AM
zbogorgon

here you have some quick results from EK FC
12-13-2006, 11:10 AM
rjw

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

Excuse me. Stupid question. When you run a common reservoir, you have Y-adapters before your reservoir inline and after your reservoir outline ?

No, the ressy has provisions for multiple sends and returns. In my case 2 sends and 4 returns
12-13-2006, 11:26 AM
rjw

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

here you have some quick results from EK FC

Those results are not any better than my mcw 60 setup, perhaps worse., but seems better than the dd setup (maybe)

Not impressed with alu on other components, but to each his own.

at 1.6v gpu/ 2.2v mem, ambient 22C, full load with my current setup is 39C.

The gpu temp is only part of the equation , however.

Bottom line with these cards (as I stated in another post) is that if oc'ing between 700 and 800 gpu and 1130 to 1200 mem, doesn't yield much better results, then the whole wc'ing thing is NOT a really cost effective way to get better performance out of these cards, only a bit of extended life, maybe.

with the way tchnology changes these days, these cards will be old news shortly.

I ran 700/1100 on a bone stock xfx 8800 gtx, at 68C. scores haven't changed much except for my phase cooled unit which will do 800/1200 or better.

Bottom line: don't throw away your mcw 60's :banana: :toast:
12-13-2006, 12:13 PM
zbogorgon

if FullCover block mathes GPU temperature of non full cover then it is a very good block
12-13-2006, 12:31 PM
warriorpoet

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbogorgon

if FullCover block mathes GPU temperature of non full cover then it is a very good block

Conversely, if a GPU-centric block matches the system/ card temps of a full-cover block in a minimal airflow environment without the aid of additional cooling, your temperature measurement equipment needs scrapping.
12-13-2006, 12:34 PM
Jochenp

Why?
If your pumps have power to spare (I'm thinking dual ddc2 here as an example), some extra restriction won't make a difference
12-13-2006, 01:38 PM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjw

No, the ressy has provisions for multiple sends and returns. In my case 2 sends and 4 returns

rjw,

Sorry to ask a totally off-topic question. Mind sharing with me the model of your reservoir that's so flexible? Thanks.
12-16-2006, 01:40 PM
LightningCrash

That DD block is some of the poorest machining I have ever seen.

Looks like a "burger flipper turned machinist" churned that one out.
12-17-2006, 09:30 AM
rjw

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

rjw,

Sorry to ask a totally off-topic question. Mind sharing with me the model of your reservoir that's so flexible? Thanks.

Shop it out, but here it is...

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21...html?tl=g30c97

4 returns and 2 sends
12-17-2006, 10:03 AM
jaguarking11

Quote:

Originally Posted by syne_24

Swiftech doesnt take chances like that, it's not cost effective for them. Besides they are lazy anyways, they will not release a new full cover block every release. As for creating a universal full cover block, I think it's impossible because NV/ATI keeps changing their layout. Unless we see some kind of standard, it aint going to happen.

Actually You are both wrong. Swiftech has started making a modular block. It uses F barbs that divert some flow to ram blocks. So far I have seen one for the 7900's

Here is a link.

http://www.svc.com/mcw-ramcool.html
12-17-2006, 11:09 AM
syne_24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguarking11

Actually You are both wrong. Swiftech has started making a modular block. It uses F barbs that divert some flow to ram blocks. So far I have seen one for the 7900's

Here is a link.

http://www.svc.com/mcw-ramcool.html

we already know about the hot selling vga ram cooler :rolleyes:

I was saying full cover like as in EK & DD. Swiftech wont make those because it will be outdated too quickly. The modular design is not hard but the ram configuration seems to change with every other release. Thus making it impossible unless there is a standard set. The mcwram cooler already doesnt work on the g80 which means they have to make another one by the time the next release and so on. I was hoping NV/ATI would come up with some kind of standard where all the ram would lay parallel to each other, which makes it easier for aftermarket cooler to work with.
12-17-2006, 08:32 PM
ShoNuff

Anybody want to buy two NIB DD 8800 GTX blocks :-)

Silverado you just cost me some money.:mad: I just got my DD blocks and not happy with what I see. I should have know better!

I would bet that the EK block performs 3-5c better just based upon the difference in the build design between the two blocks!

Anyway...thanks for cracking that puppy open. :thumbsup:
12-17-2006, 08:36 PM
hopper

i want to see someone do something crazy to it,,,addin your own "wave" over gpu... mod it or something... do it

also if its a solid big peice of metal dosnt the heat spread out, i mean the design difference is mostly the "waves" but still its got just as much metal/water contact to metal

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